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Post by Cestrian For Life on Aug 24, 2019 7:44:01 GMT
Yes, absolutely correct and I very much appreciate that, hence my comment about the fans supporting and financing success. If we don't, it will end with us ceasing trading. My point is that we should all be realistic about where we are and what we can achieve. I just appreciate that I can go and watch my team every week and enjoy watching my team, whatever League we play in. I do hope Bury survive in some form but it does look like even if they are 'saved' it might just be like jumping out of a frying pan and into fire. I don't like the sound of C&N Sporting Risk one bit. I think most Clubs are in massive debt and football is rotten to the core. Would I swop what we have for the huge debts of being in L1/L2. Not for a second. The beauty of our situation is that we can't really get into debt. We have to live within our means and I suspect in years to come, we will be looked at as a pioneer and a shining light of the positives of a community based and community run football Club. Of course, it is down to us as fans to support and ultimately finance any success that we want to achieve. Correct, we can’t go into debt but the possibility to cease trading is very real. Rewind 18 months ago.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 9:16:04 GMT
Rory Campbell and Henry Newton - Campbell is the young son of the former spin doctor to the Labour Party. Newton had some sort of part-time managerial role at Barnet. Their company has been trading barely three years but talk up a massive port folio . . . interesting! I still don't believe that this is the end of the whole sorry saga Something's a bit fishy in my opinion
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Post by rcb on Aug 24, 2019 9:51:19 GMT
I’m more interested in a reaction to Bolton’s unilateral decision to cancel last Tuesday’s game.
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Post by sealandender1 on Aug 24, 2019 10:47:06 GMT
Rory Campbell and Henry Newton - Campbell is the young son of the former spin doctor to the Labour Party. Newton had some sort of part-time managerial role at Barnet. Their company has been trading barely three years but talk up a massive port folio . . . interesting! I still don't believe that this is the end of the whole sorry saga Something's a bit fishy in my opinion Totally agree Raffles.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 11:56:44 GMT
Deadline now extended till Tuesday 5pm
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Post by rcb on Aug 24, 2019 12:21:44 GMT
Deadline now extended till Tuesday 5pm Weak EFL. How many “final” warnings are they going to give?
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Post by Wortleyblue on Aug 26, 2019 10:10:24 GMT
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Post by lincolnexile on Aug 26, 2019 12:23:50 GMT
I think the problem with Bolton is that they think they’re too big for football to do without them, so they thought it was only a matter of time before a knight in shining armour appeared. The reality is they’re a club with a history but nothing else, they’ve run up massive debts trying to keep going and now the debts have become too big for anyone to take on, especially with the financial uncertainty in the country at the minute. It’s a definite possibility that Bury and Bolton could be gone by the end of the week and I wouldn’t be surprised if a dozen more clubs are in a similar situation in 12 months time. Sugar daddies are few and far between and EFL clubs showing a healthy balance sheet non existent.
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Post by Lobster on Aug 26, 2019 19:29:44 GMT
I bet the North West Counties League are rubbing their hands together at the prospect of AFC Bolton v AFC Bury being a fixture in their division next season. If that happens I hope they're a bit more welcoming and accommodating than they were with us a decade ago.
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Post by Imperial on Aug 26, 2019 19:53:58 GMT
I bet the North West Counties League are rubbing their hands together at the prospect of AFC Bolton v AFC Bury being a fixture in their division next season. If that happens I hope they're a bit more welcoming and accommodating than they were with us a decade ago. I think it’s incredibly unlikely that any reformed version of those clubs would end up at county level. We successfully appealed against the decision to put us there based on our support etc & these are league clubs. Can’t see them being placed lower than Evostik prem.
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Post by jb on Aug 26, 2019 20:39:12 GMT
It looks like The Liverpool Echo have had to release an Editorial following Tranmere fans’ trolling of Bury and Bolton’s demise. So desperate to create a rivalry with someone they’ve now taken to goading fans of these two clubs.
They’ve tried with us, Wrexham, Oldham amongst others but no-one actually cares about them. Maybe they can start one with Heswall?
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Post by Lobster on Aug 26, 2019 21:12:18 GMT
I bet the North West Counties League are rubbing their hands together at the prospect of AFC Bolton v AFC Bury being a fixture in their division next season. If that happens I hope they're a bit more welcoming and accommodating than they were with us a decade ago. I think it’s incredibly unlikely that any reformed version of those clubs would end up at county level. We successfully appealed against the decision to put us there based on our support etc & these are league clubs. Can’t see them being placed lower than Evostik prem. They've been a bit stricter in recent years though. Darlington and Hereford had to start again at County level. Bury and particularly Bolton may be too big for the NWCL to handle, but they could argue that FCUM were attracting thousands when they first started in that league. I don't think our appeal was based on our level of support, but rather that it simply went against the precedents set by the likes of Halifax and Telford who had been allowed to reform at Evo Stik level, and that the leagues' argument that there was "no room" any higher was a weak one when relegated clubs had been reprieved and some of the county league winners had opted against being promoted. My main memory of the NWCL was them telling usbbefore Chester City had even gone bust that we should be talking to them like FCUM did, ignoring the fact that our situation was totally different to FCUM's. Then trying to force us down into their First Division when the FA had recommended the Premier, and the awful pithy statement they released when our appeal was successful, implying that we had misled them when it was common knowledge that we were appealing. It seemed like they had pound signs in their eyes as soon as it became obvious we were going to have to reform, and they were very bitter that we ended up bypassing their league.
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Post by banksy on Aug 26, 2019 21:52:35 GMT
The above is quite true to a degree, but you also tended to have in the back of your minds that there were clubs in those leagues that were genuinely trying to get promoted and saw us as a threat to that promotion hope.
The NWCL were indeed upset at missing out on CFC being in there after our successful appeal against the initial placing, but I bet the clubs who wanted to get up from that league were okay about it!
We had to concentrate on what was best for our club, and the effort that went into that appeal should never be underestimated and we have a lot to be thankful of for that appeal.
Good luck to Bolton and Bury tomorrow.
Jeff
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Post by Imperial on Aug 26, 2019 22:20:29 GMT
I think it’s incredibly unlikely that any reformed version of those clubs would end up at county level. We successfully appealed against the decision to put us there based on our support etc & these are league clubs. Can’t see them being placed lower than Evostik prem. They've been a bit stricter in recent years though. Darlington and Hereford had to start again at County level. Bury and particularly Bolton may be too big for the NWCL to handle, but they could argue that FCUM were attracting thousands when they first started in that league. I don't think our appeal was based on our level of support, but rather that it simply went against the precedents set by the likes of Halifax and Telford who had been allowed to reform at Evo Stik level, and that the leagues' argument that there was "no room" any higher was a weak one when relegated clubs had been reprieved and some of the county league winners had opted against being promoted. My main memory of the NWCL was them telling usbbefore Chester City had even gone bust that we should be talking to them like FCUM did, ignoring the fact that our situation was totally different to FCUM's. Then trying to force us down into their First Division when the FA had recommended the Premier, and the awful pithy statement they released when our appeal was successful, implying that we had misled them when it was common knowledge that we were appealing. It seemed like they had pound signs in their eyes as soon as it became obvious we were going to have to reform, and they were very bitter that we ended up bypassing their league. I’ve heard that about them being stricter but still, these are league one clubs! Expecting them to play NWCL is madness you’d like to think sanity would prevail. Agree 100% that the leagues seem to be run by absolute lunatics though.
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Post by eyeswideopen on Aug 27, 2019 8:00:18 GMT
As has been previously mentioned, the crux of both Bury and Boltons survival is who owns the respective grounds.
We may be critical of our council over certain aspects of our club and its growth, but we were extremely lucky the council held strong over Vaughan s attempts to buy the ground.
If Bolton think they are also to big to simply disappear in its current guise then think again.A football club is no different as a business to administrators as anything else, think Woolwooths, BHS and Toys R us as huge businesses disappeared from the high street completely in recent years.
There also needs to be a lot more publicity as to why they are in this situation in the first place, if i hear one more misinformed celebrity ask why cant some of the bigger clubs just help them out....it would be like giving a lame dog an ecstasy tablet.
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Post by Si on Aug 27, 2019 8:26:07 GMT
As has been previously mentioned, the crux of both Bury and Boltons survival is who owns the respective grounds. We may be critical of our council over certain aspects of our club and its growth, but we were extremely lucky the council held strong over Vaughan s attempts to buy the ground. If Bolton think they are also to big to simply disappear in its current guise then think again.A football club is no different as a business to administrators as anything else, think Woolwooths, BHS and Toys R us as huge businesses disappeared from the high street completely in recent years. There also needs to be a lot more publicity as to why they are in this situation in the first place, if i hear one more misinformed celebrity ask why cant some of the bigger clubs just help them out....it would be like giving a lame dog an ecstasy tablet. Totally agree. Fed up of hearing how Premier League clubs should help them out. I am in favour of money being distributed lower down the football chain, amongst all clubs, every season. Not clubs who are in financial strife and need a wonga loan to get them out of the sh!t. It wasn't long ago Bolton were playing European football, so why should an Everton or Tottenham give them a payday? I've got plenty of sympathy for the fans of those clubs who in reality have little influence or control on how they clubs have been run, but it raises the wider question of how clubs were allowed to get into these situations and once again you feel like the FA fit and proper person test has fallen flat on its arse. Seem to recall an article someone posted on here a couple of months back about just how many EFL clubs are in debt. It's about time something serious was done by the FA to ensure clubs are living within their means, and then you might not get these situations where one egomaniac can wipe out over 100 years of history. I'm not convinced that if Premier League clubs suddenly made a seasonal 250k donation to clubs that it would be used wisely, I think for some clubs its gives them even more leverage to chase an unsustainable dream. The way football clubs are run needs to be overhauled. Fan ownership has its limitations for sure, and I'm not saying its the right fit for every club, but I do think that fans groups should own 51% of their club so that they can have some meaningful influence in how they clubs are operated.
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Post by jb on Aug 27, 2019 9:24:35 GMT
As has been previously mentioned, the crux of both Bury and Boltons survival is who owns the respective grounds. We may be critical of our council over certain aspects of our club and its growth, but we were extremely lucky the council held strong over Vaughan s attempts to buy the ground. If Bolton think they are also to big to simply disappear in its current guise then think again.A football club is no different as a business to administrators as anything else, think Woolwooths, BHS and Toys R us as huge businesses disappeared from the high street completely in recent years. There also needs to be a lot more publicity as to why they are in this situation in the first place, if i hear one more misinformed celebrity ask why cant some of the bigger clubs just help them out....it would be like giving a lame dog an ecstasy tablet. Totally agree. Fed up of hearing how Premier League clubs should help them out. I am in favour of money being distributed lower down the football chain, amongst all clubs, every season. Not clubs who are in financial strife and need a wonga loan to get them out of the sh!t. It wasn't long ago Bolton were playing European football, so why should an Everton or Tottenham give them a payday? I've got plenty of sympathy for the fans of those clubs who in reality have little influence or control on how they clubs have been run, but it raises the wider question of how clubs were allowed to get into these situations and once again you feel like the FA fit and proper person test has fallen flat on its arse. Seem to recall an article someone posted on here a couple of months back about just how many EFL clubs are in debt. It's about time something serious was done by the FA to ensure clubs are living within their means, and then you might not get these situations where one egomaniac can wipe out over 100 years of history. I'm not convinced that if Premier League clubs suddenly made a seasonal 250k donation to clubs that it would be used wisely, I think for some clubs its gives them even more leverage to chase an unsustainable dream. The way football clubs are run needs to be overhauled. Fan ownership has its limitations for sure, and I'm not saying its the right fit for every club, but I do think that fans groups should own 51% of their club so that they can have some meaningful influence in how they clubs are operated. Agree with this. The analogy about player's wages and the debt of these clubs is also very annoying. The way the Bolton and Bury scenarios can be stopped is for clubs to cut their cloths accordingly. Bury spent way beyond their means for several years. Maybe if these debt ridden clubs were a bit more tougher on wage demands, transfer fees etc they wouldn't be so debt-ridden.
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Post by rcb on Aug 27, 2019 9:30:42 GMT
By tonight, will it be two B’s or not two B’s?
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Post by Lobster on Aug 27, 2019 11:25:46 GMT
Totally agree. Fed up of hearing how Premier League clubs should help them out. I am in favour of money being distributed lower down the football chain, amongst all clubs, every season. Not clubs who are in financial strife and need a wonga loan to get them out of the sh!t. It wasn't long ago Bolton were playing European football, so why should an Everton or Tottenham give them a payday? I've got plenty of sympathy for the fans of those clubs who in reality have little influence or control on how they clubs have been run, but it raises the wider question of how clubs were allowed to get into these situations and once again you feel like the FA fit and proper person test has fallen flat on its arse. Seem to recall an article someone posted on here a couple of months back about just how many EFL clubs are in debt. It's about time something serious was done by the FA to ensure clubs are living within their means, and then you might not get these situations where one egomaniac can wipe out over 100 years of history. I'm not convinced that if Premier League clubs suddenly made a seasonal 250k donation to clubs that it would be used wisely, I think for some clubs its gives them even more leverage to chase an unsustainable dream. The way football clubs are run needs to be overhauled. Fan ownership has its limitations for sure, and I'm not saying its the right fit for every club, but I do think that fans groups should own 51% of their club so that they can have some meaningful influence in how they clubs are operated. Agree with this. The analogy about player's wages and the debt of these clubs is also very annoying. The way the Bolton and Bury scenarios can be stopped is for clubs to cut their cloths accordingly. Bury spent way beyond their means for several years. Maybe if these debt ridden clubs were a bit more tougher on wage demands, transfer fees etc they wouldn't be so debt-ridden. I remember getting annoyed a few years ago with several pundits saying how amazing it was that Northampton were doing so well on the pitch when their players hadn't been paid. Well, not really. If they're not paying their players, they're clearly putting they can't afford into their playing budget, giving them an unfair advantage over other clubs on the pitch. Not being paid must have an effect on morale, but good players are still good whether they're being paid or not.
Similarly, when Leeds had that points deduction, and much of the media made it out to be a wonderful, romantic story that they still made the playoffs. They got a points deduction because they wrote off tens of millions of pounds of debt, and were playing at a level where a club of their size should have been getting promoted anyway. It was a better story that Doncaster were promoted at their expense, given what they had been through not long before.
There's a widespread lack of understanding of why clubs get in debt. If a bolt of lightning hits a club's stand and they find themselves struggling to find the money to repair it, that's the kind of situation where charity is appropriate, but if they make a decision to overspend on transfers and wages and run out of money, no way! The players and supporters deserve sympathy, but the directors need to carry the can and deal with it.
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Post by Churton Blue on Aug 27, 2019 12:42:40 GMT
As has been previously mentioned, the crux of both Bury and Boltons survival is who owns the respective grounds. We may be critical of our council over certain aspects of our club and its growth, but we were extremely lucky the council held strong over Vaughan s attempts to buy the ground. If Bolton think they are also to big to simply disappear in its current guise then think again.A football club is no different as a business to administrators as anything else, think Woolwooths, BHS and Toys R us as huge businesses disappeared from the high street completely in recent years. There also needs to be a lot more publicity as to why they are in this situation in the first place, if i hear one more misinformed celebrity ask why cant some of the bigger clubs just help them out....it would be like giving a lame dog an ecstasy tablet. Totally agree. Fed up of hearing how Premier League clubs should help them out. I am in favour of money being distributed lower down the football chain, amongst all clubs, every season. Not clubs who are in financial strife and need a wonga loan to get them out of the sh!t. It wasn't long ago Bolton were playing European football, so why should an Everton or Tottenham give them a payday? I've got plenty of sympathy for the fans of those clubs who in reality have little influence or control on how they clubs have been run, but it raises the wider question of how clubs were allowed to get into these situations and once again you feel like the FA fit and proper person test has fallen flat on its arse. Seem to recall an article someone posted on here a couple of months back about just how many EFL clubs are in debt. It's about time something serious was done by the FA to ensure clubs are living within their means, and then you might not get these situations where one egomaniac can wipe out over 100 years of history. I'm not convinced that if Premier League clubs suddenly made a seasonal 250k donation to clubs that it would be used wisely, I think for some clubs its gives them even more leverage to chase an unsustainable dream. The way football clubs are run needs to be overhauled. Fan ownership has its limitations for sure, and I'm not saying its the right fit for every club, but I do think that fans groups should own 51% of their club so that they can have some meaningful influence in how they clubs are operated.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 14:43:07 GMT
Looks like Bury takeover deal is off
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Post by Matt on Aug 27, 2019 16:33:27 GMT
Bury look finished while there’s still something happening with Bolton.
It doesn’t look good on the EFL Just to throw one Club and worse kicking both of them out. It will be a failure to the system. I think there’ll be another extension. If they were non league like us this would have been ended a long time ago.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 16:52:30 GMT
Bury look finished while there’s still something happening with Bolton. It doesn’t look good on the EFL Just to throw one Club and worse kicking both of them out. It will be a failure to the system. I think there’ll be another extension. If they were non league like us this would have been ended a long time ago. Sad this, but the EFL are a joke and should end it now, allow the fans time to rebuild for next season in whatever league is appropriate.
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Post by rcb on Aug 27, 2019 17:07:43 GMT
Bury’s problems seem to be down to one man, Steve Dale, and several legitimate buyers have had bids rejected by Dale. On the other hand, Bolton have been taking the piss for several years now, and yet he EFL seem determined to get rid of Bury while favouring Bolton.
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Post by rcb on Aug 27, 2019 17:29:03 GMT
No second chances for North Ferriby United in March this year, with a paltry debt of just £7,600. Bolton, on the other hand, faced a winding up order in February by HMRC and had a fortnight to settle their debts. Six months later they are still taking the piss. How come?
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Post by waggoner on Aug 27, 2019 18:54:38 GMT
Bury’s problems seem to be down to one man, Steve Dale, and several legitimate buyers have had bids rejected by Dale. On the other hand, Bolton have been taking the piss for several years now, and yet he EFL seem determined to get rid of Bury while favouring Bolton. It's getting stupid now. The EFL gave an extension on Friday for C&N Sporting Risk to put in a bid, which they have now withdrawn. The FINAL deadline has passed (5pm today) NOW others want to extend the deadline further because of other 'bids' . Where were this people when the deadlines were set? This is not fair on the other clubs in League 1. In fact it is just taking the piss. There is no way due diligence can be completed before the weekend, and if given more time another match would to be postponed. This would give other clubs a backlog of fixtures too. I'm all for clubs getting a chance but when is enough enough?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 19:13:11 GMT
EFL were supposed to make a statement at 7pm and both Clubs are still waiting for this statement
Jill Neville has apparently put a late bid in some say she is Mrs Bury she's been their for a long time until she quit over the Dale lies to Dawson on talksport 2 weeks ago
I suppose if they do get an extension then this will have to be the last one
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Post by bluemission on Aug 27, 2019 19:15:03 GMT
Bury’s problems seem to be down to one man, Steve Dale, and several legitimate buyers have had bids rejected by Dale. On the other hand, Bolton have been taking the piss for several years now, and yet he EFL seem determined to get rid of Bury while favouring Bolton. It's getting stupid now. The EFL gave an extension on Friday for C&N Sporting Risk to put in a bid, which they have now withdrawn. The FINAL deadline has passed (5pm today) NOW others want to extend the deadline further because of other 'bids' . Where were this people when the deadlines were set? This is not fair on the other clubs in League 1. In fact it is just taking the piss. There is no way due diligence can be completed before the weekend, and if given more time another match would to be postponed. This would give other clubs a backlog of fixtures too. I'm all for clubs getting a chance but when is enough enough? Starting with the position everyone is selfish and league one clubs are no different they (the EFL board which is made up of the Clubs) don’t want to remove Bury as they will have to do same with Bolton . The impact on this for every other club will be the loss of two home games which in turn will be 10% of their income plus the 12 points , this could cost a team like Portsmouth or Sunderland easily 200k-250k in lost match day revenue.
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Post by Churton Blue on Aug 27, 2019 21:38:13 GMT
Bury’s problems seem to be down to one man, Steve Dale, and several legitimate buyers have had bids rejected by Dale. On the other hand, Bolton have been taking the piss for several years now, and yet he EFL seem determined to get rid of Bury while favouring Bolton. Beg to differ. See link below. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/26/bury-britain-gigg-lane-brexitThe house of cards built up by Stewart Day is staggering beyond belief. Because football clubs are subject to company law the powers that be are not really interested in doing anything meaningful to change things as they are happy for the crooks and conmen to prosper at our expense. Incidentally Bury FC owe HMRC £1.1 million pounds. The CVA agreed by Dale would mean Bury FC only paying 25% of that. Is that fair to all the other football clubs and millions of individuals who pay up in full ?
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Post by Matt on Aug 27, 2019 22:23:58 GMT
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