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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 10:20:08 GMT
None so blind as those that won't see. Just accept you lost even after two bites of the cherry. Hopefully now all the insults and bad mouthing will stop
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BREXIT
Dec 13, 2019 10:22:20 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 13, 2019 10:22:20 GMT
None so blind as those that won't see. Just accept you lost even after two bites of the cherry. Hopefully now all the insults and bad mouthing will stop I’m a disabled public sector worker with three small children in state education, and we can’t afford private health insurance. I know I’ve lost. As have many millions of others. |
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Post by jb on Dec 13, 2019 10:27:45 GMT
None so blind as those that won't see. Just accept you lost even after two bites of the cherry. Hopefully now all the insults and bad mouthing will stop I’m a disabled public sector worker with three small children in state education, and we can’t afford private health insurance. I know I’ve lost. As have many millions of others. I can think of nothing better for our taxes to be spent on other than for Mancot to spend his working days on Devachat's Brexit thread pontificating his far-left guff. Come on Boris give him a pay rise it is well deserved. |
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Deleted
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BREXIT
Dec 13, 2019 10:41:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 10:41:23 GMT
He missed out the bit about the chip on his shoulder.
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BREXIT
Dec 13, 2019 10:42:20 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 13, 2019 10:42:20 GMT
Oh, I do apologise for disliking a political party that is deliberately targeting people like me and my family.
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BREXIT
Dec 13, 2019 10:46:12 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 13, 2019 10:46:12 GMT
Nevertheless I can feel positive about how popular the the radical, socialist policies in the manifesto are (Labour won the popular vote AND won more votes last night than they did when they formed a majority government under Blair in 2005). Just a shame Brexit has divided the nation so so much.
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Post by g1 on Dec 13, 2019 10:53:12 GMT
Here are the reasons labour party lost
1 the row with the Jewish community
2 corbyn dithered for months on brexit so can't make decisions
3 ludicrous spending plans that can't be met
4 I don't think he's in control of the party
5 and most damningly of all people saw through him cut him up no meet on the bone
PS I'm not a main line party voter but those are the facts
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Dec 13, 2019 10:55:12 GMT
Nevertheless I can feel positive about how popular the the radical, socialist policies in the manifesto are (Labour won the popular vote AND won more votes last night than they did when they formed a majority government under Blair in 2005). Just a shame Brexit has divided the nation so so much. Give it up SB! You're invoking memories of a Jon McCarthy post match interview. |
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BREXIT
Dec 13, 2019 11:03:03 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 13, 2019 11:03:03 GMT
Nevertheless I can feel positive about how popular the the radical, socialist policies in the manifesto are (Labour won the popular vote AND won more votes last night than they did when they formed a majority government under Blair in 2005). Just a shame Brexit has divided the nation so so much. Give it up SB! You're invoking memories of a Jon McCarthy post match interview. Difference is I am giving facts, not opinions, in my above post. The two statements I made re: number of voters are true. |
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BREXIT
Dec 13, 2019 11:24:03 GMT
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Post by Al on Dec 13, 2019 11:24:03 GMT
I’m a disabled public sector worker with three small children in state education, and we can’t afford private health insurance. I know I’ve lost. As have many millions of others. I can think of nothing better for our taxes to be spent on other than for Mancot to spend his working days on Devachat's Brexit thread pontificating his far-left guff. Come on Boris give him a pay rise it is well deserved. 😂😂😂 |
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Post by luke90 on Dec 13, 2019 11:38:22 GMT
Nevertheless I can feel positive about how popular the the radical, socialist policies in the manifesto are (Labour won the popular vote AND won more votes last night than they did when they formed a majority government under Blair in 2005). Just a shame Brexit has divided the nation so so much. I don't think they won the popular vote on their manifesto? Some of the policies were actually very good and I, as someone who voted conservative, did like them. Sadly, a lot of them weren't great or thought through at all. Coupled with a front bench that doesn't instill confidence, made it pretty impossible to vote for them. I do hope Labour can regroup as healthy competition is good, as are differing opinions. Both sides have been awful this election, lets hope we can all move forward. |
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BREXIT
Dec 13, 2019 11:49:53 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 13, 2019 11:49:53 GMT
Nevertheless I can feel positive about how popular the the radical, socialist policies in the manifesto are (Labour won the popular vote AND won more votes last night than they did when they formed a majority government under Blair in 2005). Just a shame Brexit has divided the nation so so much. I don't think they won the popular vote on their manifesto? . What did they win it on then? A second referendum stance? Genuine question, not having a go. |
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BREXIT
Dec 13, 2019 12:00:55 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 13, 2019 12:00:55 GMT
This was a Brexit election. John McDonnell is completely right in his interview with Andrew Neil.
Public ownership is hugely popular:
83% want public ownership of water
77% want public ownership of energy
76% want public ownership of rail
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BREXIT
Dec 13, 2019 12:00:58 GMT
Post by luke90 on Dec 13, 2019 12:00:58 GMT
I don't think they won the popular vote on their manifesto? . What did they win it on then? A second referendum stance? Genuine question, not having a go. Was more a question on the statement about them winning the popular vote ![]()  |
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BREXIT
Dec 13, 2019 12:02:10 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 13, 2019 12:02:10 GMT
Sorry you misunderstand - I said left-wing parties won the popular vote by 1.5million over right-wing parties.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Dec 13, 2019 12:10:43 GMT
One of the commentators this morning said they've heard Remainers across the land say they were more worried about a Corbyn government than they were about leaving the EU and were going to vote accordingly. Sad that it came to that.
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BREXIT
Dec 13, 2019 12:17:17 GMT
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Post by iandychesterfc on Dec 13, 2019 12:17:17 GMT
Corbyn was after a “people’s vote” on brexit, he got one yesterday and the people have wiped the floor with him. As I said it wasn’t his position but he pandered to the views of the likes of Starmer and other Blairites in the party. I’ll say it again... In 2017, Corbyn was leader, the manifesto was radical, the position on Brexit was to respect the referendum, Labour wiped out a Tory majority. In 2019, Corbyn was leader, the manifesto was radical, the position on Brexit was changed to have a second referendum, there’s now a Thatcherite majority. The best thing for Labour to do will be to elect a Rayner, a Pidcock, or a Lewis to continue the fight for the many, not the few. I’m sorry to tell you this, but labour didn’t win in 2017. Away from Twitter the people being interviewed are anti Corbyn and one hi vis guy in Workington points out you can’t havevakl this free stuff without paying for it somewhere. It wasn’t just brexit, it was anti-business childish giveaways which most over 25 saw through |
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BREXIT
Dec 13, 2019 12:19:19 GMT
Post by jedthehumanoid on Dec 13, 2019 12:19:19 GMT
Turns out that if you tell a bunch of your own supporters to f*ck off and vote Tory, they f*ck off and vote Tory. Abuse, on both sides of the argument, needs to disappear. Labour needs to be ready for the next election - spend the next few years making themselves credible again in the majority's eyes. I think once this initial stage of Brexit is over and it's not looking as rosy as has been promised a lot of votes will be back up for grabs. It may turn out to be sunlit uplands all the way but I'm sceptical.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Dec 13, 2019 12:23:19 GMT
As I said it wasn’t his position but he pandered to the views of the likes of Starmer and other Blairites in the party. I’ll say it again... In 2017, Corbyn was leader, the manifesto was radical, the position on Brexit was to respect the referendum, Labour wiped out a Tory majority. In 2019, Corbyn was leader, the manifesto was radical, the position on Brexit was changed to have a second referendum, there’s now a Thatcherite majority. The best thing for Labour to do will be to elect a Rayner, a Pidcock, or a Lewis to continue the fight for the many, not the few. I’m sorry to tell you this, but labour didn’t win in 2017. Away from Twitter the people being interviewed are anti Corbyn and one hi vis guy in Workington points out you can’t havevakl this free stuff without paying for it somewhere. It wasn’t just brexit, it was anti-business childish giveaways which most over 25 saw through Saw that. I thought the Corbyn supporting girl next to him seemed to be in a state of total disbelief that someone disagreed with her. |
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BREXIT
Dec 13, 2019 12:27:21 GMT
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Post by Hannibal on Dec 13, 2019 12:27:21 GMT
I was merely repeating the question I posed to you, and others. Is it just a coincidence then? it is more likely that in the intervening years, the general public has sussed Corbyn and his ilk out for the Marxist, anti-Semitic people they are. Had you not thought of that? Spot on Billy. I know many Jews who feel safer this morning and more likely to remain here. |
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Post by Lobster on Dec 13, 2019 12:37:20 GMT
it is more likely that in the intervening years, the general public has sussed Corbyn and his ilk out for the Marxist, anti-Semitic people they are. Had you not thought of that? Spot on Billy. I know many Jews who feel safer this morning and more likely to remain here. I think anyone from a minority group who feels safer under a Boris Johnson Conservative government touting a xenophobic Brexit campaign is sorely misguided. |
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Post by iandychesterfc on Dec 13, 2019 12:50:33 GMT
I’m sorry to tell you this, but labour didn’t win in 2017. Away from Twitter the people being interviewed are anti Corbyn and one hi vis guy in Workington points out you can’t havevakl this free stuff without paying for it somewhere. It wasn’t just brexit, it was anti-business childish giveaways which most over 25 saw through Saw that. I thought the Corbyn supporting girl next to him seemed to be in a state of total disbelief that someone disagreed with her. Bears itself out on social media, particularly Twitter where it’s become such an echo chamber these poor under 25s really are surprised people disagree with them |
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Post by jb on Dec 13, 2019 13:05:36 GMT
Spot on Billy. I know many Jews who feel safer this morning and more likely to remain here. I think anyone from a minority group who feels safer under a Boris Johnson Conservative government touting a xenophobic Brexit campaign is sorely misguided. Such xenophobia is seen in the Tory party and is clearly illustrated that they have a second generation immigrant with mixed heritage as Home Secretary and a Chancellor with Pakistani heritage in their cabinet. Get down the Shire Hall with Mancot and get that second election. Maybe even a best of five sets referendum vote. |
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Post by Lobster on Dec 13, 2019 13:35:39 GMT
I think anyone from a minority group who feels safer under a Boris Johnson Conservative government touting a xenophobic Brexit campaign is sorely misguided. Such xenophobia is seen in the Tory party and is clearly illustrated that they have a second generation immigrant with mixed heritage as Home Secretary and a Chancellor with Pakistani heritage in their cabinet. Get down the Shire Hall with Mancot and get that second election. Maybe even a best of five sets referendum vote. You're the one being childish now. I've accepted the Labour Party has missed the mark and needs to change. That doesn't mean it's still not preferable to this.
Johnson has a long history of overt bigotry, and three Tory candidates are being investigated for anti-Semitism as we speak.
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Post by Hannibal on Dec 13, 2019 13:39:58 GMT
Such xenophobia is seen in the Tory party and is clearly illustrated that they have a second generation immigrant with mixed heritage as Home Secretary and a Chancellor with Pakistani heritage in their cabinet. Get down the Shire Hall with Mancot and get that second election. Maybe even a best of five sets referendum vote. You're the one being childish now. I've accepted the Labour Party has missed the mark and needs to change. That doesn't mean it's still not preferable to this.
Johnson has a long history of overt bigotry, and three Tory candidates are being investigated for anti-Semitism as we speak.
Yes they are being investigated, unlike the hundreds in the Labour party who are still in a back-log. |
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BREXIT
Dec 13, 2019 13:52:24 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 13, 2019 13:52:24 GMT
Centrism is dead.
The so-called Labour “moderates” will have to face the fact that the electorate did not abandon Labour for the centre. They went either to the far right, in England and Wales, or to the social democratic nationalist alternative, in Scotland. They did not go to the Liberal Democrats or back Change UK. Chuka Umunna, Dominic Grieve, David Gauke, Anna Soubry, Jo Swinson and Luciana Berger all lost.
I did not hear a single voter ask about Owen Smith or pine for Yvette Cooper.
Labour must continue driving the vehicle for social change for the many, not the few. Jeremy Corbyn was just the instigator of this movement, it must continue on its journey. I’d like to see Angela Rayner or Clive Lewis replace him.
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Post by billyw on Dec 13, 2019 14:53:01 GMT
No, Brexit was one of the reasons voters rejected Corbyn. A big reason, but not the only one. I'm not going to repeat those other reasons, they've been talked about enough times for you to have noticed. If you try to ignore why you lost so heavily you risk being locked out of office until the 2030s. Unlike you I don’t profess to know why people voted the way they did, I presume you’ve spoken to many voters after the vote? All I can say is a lot of Leave-voting seats went from Labour to Tory, and that’s a fact you can’t deny. Anything else is speculation unless, as I said, you have spoken to many voters and asked them why they voted the way they did. That’s not true though is it? Many MPs and ousted MPs have made the point that when canvassing, the constituents were constantly complaining about Corbyn not Brexit, but you continue being deluded. |
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Dec 13, 2019 14:56:33 GMT
Post by billyw on Dec 13, 2019 14:56:33 GMT
Centrism is dead. The so-called Labour “moderates” will have to face the fact that the electorate did not abandon Labour for the centre. They went either to the far right, in England and Wales, or to the social democratic nationalist alternative, in Scotland. They did not go to the Liberal Democrats or back Change UK. Chuka Umunna, Dominic Grieve, David Gauke, Anna Soubry, Jo Swinson and Luciana Berger all lost. I did not hear a single voter ask about Owen Smith or pine for Yvette Cooper. Labour must continue driving the vehicle for social change for the many, not the few. Jeremy Corbyn was just the instigator of this movement, it must continue on its journey. I’d like to see Angela Rayner or Clive Lewis replace him. Angela Rayner 😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀 |
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BREXIT
Dec 13, 2019 15:11:52 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Dec 13, 2019 15:11:52 GMT
Unlike you I don’t profess to know why people voted the way they did, I presume you’ve spoken to many voters after the vote? All I can say is a lot of Leave-voting seats went from Labour to Tory, and that’s a fact you can’t deny. Anything else is speculation unless, as I said, you have spoken to many voters and asked them why they voted the way they did. That’s not true though is it? Many MPs and ousted MPs have made the point that when canvassing, the constituents were constantly complaining about Corbyn not Brexit, but you continue being deluded. Yeah, I listened to a discussion about that this morning. It suggested there's been growing anxiety over the last few weeks among Labour MP's that Corbyn's unpopularity would cost them their seat. Anyway, the final result is now in - Tory majority of 80. Didn't see them getting a majority at all, never mind one as commanding as that. |
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BREXIT
Dec 13, 2019 15:13:43 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Dec 13, 2019 15:13:43 GMT
Centrism is dead. The so-called Labour “moderates” will have to face the fact that the electorate did not abandon Labour for the centre. They went either to the far right, in England and Wales, or to the social democratic nationalist alternative, in Scotland. They did not go to the Liberal Democrats or back Change UK. Chuka Umunna, Dominic Grieve, David Gauke, Anna Soubry, Jo Swinson and Luciana Berger all lost. I did not hear a single voter ask about Owen Smith or pine for Yvette Cooper. Labour must continue driving the vehicle for social change for the many, not the few. Jeremy Corbyn was just the instigator of this movement, it must continue on its journey. I’d like to see Angela Rayner or Clive Lewis replace him. Angela Rayner 😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀 He's having us on Billy! |
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