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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 10:12:50 GMT
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Post by iandychesterfc on Dec 15, 2019 10:12:50 GMT
Nevertheless I can feel positive about how popular the the radical, socialist policies in the manifesto are (Labour won the popular vote AND won more votes last night than they did when they formed a majority government under Blair in 2005). Just a shame Brexit has divided the nation so so much. Corbyn claiming to have won the argument in guardian this morning bringing more mockery. As I said above there is nothing credible to say they were popular, other than polls of specific sample sizes and who knows what questions were asked and of course whether policies were in isolation rather than all together. Taking that apart, they didn’t win the majority of votes, this awful line about winning more votes than Blair is pathetic - ignoring 1997 and 2001 and going for 2005 when Tory was recovering and then ignoring the fact that in 2019 there are what, 7, 8, 9 million? More people in U.K. I’m sure someone clued up will confirm so it’s false equivalence on number of votes and taking the 3rd election. Further this blaming of brexit policy flies in face of everyone saying how clever Corbyn was when policy was made up (will probably be in this thread knowing you) and ignores, as you continue to do, the fact that this is a defeat against the backdrop of the last 3 years which have been the worst, the absolute worst government in my lifetime.
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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 10:54:52 GMT
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Post by 1paulcarden on Dec 15, 2019 10:54:52 GMT
Labour moved left in 2017 and made massive gains. Labour capitulated to centrists in 2019, watered down their Brexit position and suffered massive losses, as did the centrist Lib-Dems. Hahahahahahahaha. Repeat after me ‘its all Blair & Brown’s fault.’
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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 10:56:02 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Dec 15, 2019 10:56:02 GMT
Nevertheless I can feel positive about how popular the the radical, socialist policies in the manifesto are (Labour won the popular vote AND won more votes last night than they did when they formed a majority government under Blair in 2005). Just a shame Brexit has divided the nation so so much. Corbyn claiming to have won the argument in guardian this morning bringing more mockery. As I said above there is nothing credible to say they were popular, other than polls of specific sample sizes and who knows what questions were asked and of course whether policies were in isolation rather than all together. Taking that apart, they didn’t win the majority of votes, this awful line about winning more votes than Blair is pathetic - ignoring 1997 and 2001 and going for 2005 when Tory was recovering and then ignoring the fact that in 2019 there are what, 7, 8, 9 million? More people in U.K. I’m sure someone clued up will confirm so it’s false equivalence on number of votes and taking the 3rd election. Further this blaming of brexit policy flies in face of everyone saying how clever Corbyn was when policy was made up (will probably be in this thread knowing you) and ignores, as you continue to do, the fact that this is a defeat against the backdrop of the last 3 years which have been the worst, the absolute worst government in my lifetime. Very true and I've seen many people saying similar. These attempts to try and salvage something from Thursday's disaster just makes Corbyn and his apologists look further out of touch - to the point of continuing to be harmful. There is a thing called damage limitation - part of this should be Corbyn stepping down now and going quietly. It seems to me his vanity is preventing him from doing this. As for Labour, I don't see what there is to gain from lingering on with a leader who has delivered two defeats in a row with the second of those being a landslide. Corbyn is toxic to the Labour movement now, as May quickly became to the Tories. Labour have a long journey ahead of them and it may be early days but there's no time to lose in my opinion. By staying on for a few months he continues to divide his party as he has done for three years - time to put the party's interests first I think. There will be plenty to challenge Boris on next month, Jeremy has no credibility to do this.
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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 10:56:25 GMT
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Post by 1paulcarden on Dec 15, 2019 10:56:25 GMT
Just two days in and we are hearing that the 50,000 new nurses won't happen for 10 years and Tories going on radio to advocate health insurance. It’s over. Give your party back to adults so we can fight these bastards.
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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 11:02:32 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 15, 2019 11:02:32 GMT
You people are yet to answer the question as to why 52 of the 54 lost seats were Leave-voting seats if the problem wasn’t the party’s Brexit shift...
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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 11:10:04 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Dec 15, 2019 11:10:04 GMT
You people are yet to answer the question as to why 52 of the 54 lost seats were Leave-voting seats if the problem wasn’t the party’s Brexit shift... Have you taken no notice whatsoever of what the electorate have been saying since Friday? They're not just talking about Brexit and it's only really you who doesn't seem to know that.
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Post by 1paulcarden on Dec 15, 2019 11:20:38 GMT
You people are yet to answer the question as to why 52 of the 54 lost seats were Leave-voting seats if the problem wasn’t the party’s Brexit shift... The party’s Brexit shift was amongst a myriad of other reasons that led to the electorate finding your Dear Leader, Kim Jong Jeremy, totally and utterly unpalatable. If you don’t want to introspect that at all then you can’t have this conversation.
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Post by iandychesterfc on Dec 15, 2019 11:36:21 GMT
Just two days in and we are hearing that the 50,000 new nurses won't happen for 10 years and Tories going on radio to advocate health insurance. STOP IT. Just stop This is a false tweet using a headline that this has just come out now when, if you actually read the article (which twitter author knows people won’t) it’s dated 25th November ffs. You lack any critical thinking skills whatsoever, which I just cannot understand given your journalism qualification.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 11:46:10 GMT
Mancot is our very own comical Ali...
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Post by Lobster on Dec 15, 2019 11:53:25 GMT
Just two days in and we are hearing that the 50,000 new nurses won't happen for 10 years and Tories going on radio to advocate health insurance. STOP IT. Just stop This is a false tweet using a headline that this has just come out now when, if you actually read the article (which twitter author knows people won’t) it’s dated 25th November ffs. You lack any critical thinking skills whatsoever, which I just cannot understand given your journalism qualification. Pretty in keeping with most British journalism, I'd say.
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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 11:58:19 GMT
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Post by iandychesterfc on Dec 15, 2019 11:58:19 GMT
STOP IT. Just stop This is a false tweet using a headline that this has just come out now when, if you actually read the article (which twitter author knows people won’t) it’s dated 25th November ffs. You lack any critical thinking skills whatsoever, which I just cannot understand given your journalism qualification. Pretty in keeping with most British journalism, I'd say. Quite. Twitter is the worst, mind.
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Post by Lobster on Dec 15, 2019 12:07:28 GMT
Pretty in keeping with most British journalism, I'd say. Quite. Twitter is the worst, mind. Twitter as a medium, yes, because it's so blunt and driven by grabbing immediate attention. Facebook is more irresponsible as a company though. The sort of shite they've been letting through as ads during this campaign has been ridiculous.
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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 12:31:49 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 15, 2019 12:31:49 GMT
Bernie Sanders, an actual Jew, is now experiencing the ratcheting up of an “anti-Semitic” smear campaign in the US, as it was deemed to have worked to stop a socialist leader over here.
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Post by Lobster on Dec 15, 2019 12:37:23 GMT
I think the big problem is that everyone is still talking about Corbyn. Meanwhile, a very dangerous man in Boris Johnson is staying in No. 10, probably for the next five years, and all the attention is on the leader of the opposition, who is going anyway. This is what the Tories do best – misdirection. Divide and conquer.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think too many people on this thread are really fans of Boris Johnson, so I’m not sure some of the gloating ‘I told you so’ stuff is really necessary. In fact, it has the same effect some of you have accused Corbyn fans of, in that it belittles and insults people for their beliefs, and gets their back up rather than encouraging them to change their mind.
If you believe in something, it’s difficult to accept that it isn’t working, and that’s the position Corbyn supporters are now in. I liked him, and will accept that I probably got sucked into the echo chamber to some extent. I still think his tenure wasn’t a mistake and was worth a go. I think people forget sometimes that Corbyn wasn’t elected Labour leader because of Brexit, but in response to the Conservatives winning a majority in 2015 on the back of five years of austerity. Then Brexit happened and austerity became a secondary issue, and when it was debated it was in the context of Brexit. Corbyn was never really the man to convince either leave or remain voters, he only appealed to people like me who might have leant one way or the other on Brexit, but were more concerned about other matters. A Cameron v Corbyn election never happened, and it might have been interesting if it had, as that really would have been a ‘pick your side’ debate.
I still think that although Corbyn did particularly badly, the cards were stacked against Labour in this election and nothing they could have done would have prevented a Tory majority. Right now, the right just seem so powerful, and organised. The Tories and Brexit Party only got 45% of the vote, so I’m not convinced leavers are the voice of the nation in the way they think they are, but they seem a lot more single-minded about it than remainers are.
The question now is what next for Labour? The Tories have now seen off three very different Labour leaders in Brown, Milliband and Corbyn. Perhaps what those three had in common though was that none of them were very charismatic. Do they need a showman? Do they need, as Deva Chanter hinted, someone from somewhere like Leigh, Blyth or even Wrexham who understands why these towns have turned against Labour? I’m not sure, but it’s vital they get it right, and there’s no rush so they need to take their time.
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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 13:04:59 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 15, 2019 13:04:59 GMT
Excellent post Lobster, finally providing a sense of balance to a polarised thread full of one-sided arguments with little room for compromise from either side (and I include myself in that).
Voice of reason.
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Post by Al on Dec 15, 2019 13:12:53 GMT
This thread needs closing down, and SB given an enforced break for his own mental wellbeing.
Stay off the socials, stay off DC. Get your head out of your phone and spend some time with your kids ffs.
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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 13:48:16 GMT
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Post by iandychesterfc on Dec 15, 2019 13:48:16 GMT
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ddod
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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 13:53:37 GMT
Post by ddod on Dec 15, 2019 13:53:37 GMT
He's got a war to wage against the Christmas Market in town first.
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Post by Hannibal on Dec 15, 2019 14:31:10 GMT
Why are you editing truthful posts? I thought you were all about free speech. You have finally achieved your life long dream of being a DC mod. Welcome to the NWO. He's put me on a 50% warning because I got fed up of his drivel and said so in no uncertain terms and he's used his moderating power to try and silence me. I voted Tory for the first time in my life (former member of Labour Party) because most of my Jewish friends would have found it impossible to remain in UK had Corbyn been elected. In addition to his friendship with Hamas, Hezbollah and IRA, he's completely unfit to govern and retain this country's security.
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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 14:49:02 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 15, 2019 14:49:02 GMT
Why are you editing truthful posts? I thought you were all about free speech. You have finally achieved your life long dream of being a DC mod. Welcome to the NWO. He's put me on a 50% warning because I got fed up of his drivel and said so in no uncertain terms and he's used his moderating power to try and silence me. I think “in no uncertain terms” is a tad understated. You can’t go round calling other posters effing C’s because you have a different political opinion. I won’t entertain the libellous drivel in your second paragraph.
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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 15:17:44 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 15, 2019 15:17:44 GMT
Rich coming from Nath, he believes if you don't vote Labour you're a nonce. The majority of the UK believe that too be true. Otherwise Steptoe would have been voted in. It was only a jokey meme I shared mate.
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Post by paulie on Dec 15, 2019 15:27:19 GMT
He's put me on a 50% warning because I got fed up of his drivel and said so in no uncertain terms and he's used his moderating power to try and silence me. I think “in no uncertain terms” is a tad understated. You can’t go round calling other posters effing C’s because you have a different political opinion. I won’t entertain the libellous drivel in your second paragraph. But it's ok for you to call Tories "bastards" because you have a different political opinion?
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ddod
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Post by ddod on Dec 15, 2019 15:28:49 GMT
I doubt it tbh. Your stance against anyone who isn't a Corbynite is disturbing, closing on obsessive. I don't know why you care, you don't go out canvassing and you're not even a paid up member. You weren't even a member of the CFU until you tried to blag your way into the crisis meeting.
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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 15:56:19 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 15, 2019 15:56:19 GMT
I think “in no uncertain terms” is a tad understated. You can’t go round calling other posters effing C’s because you have a different political opinion. I won’t entertain the libellous drivel in your second paragraph. But it's ok for you to call Tories "bastards" because you have a different political opinion? I didn’t aim it at anybody. It’s just what they’re called! referring to a political party as “Tory bastards” is a bit different than replying to a poster on here with “change the record you f****ing c**t” I’d say.
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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 17:46:10 GMT
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Post by Ian H Block on Dec 15, 2019 17:46:10 GMT
Why are you editing truthful posts? I thought you were all about free speech. You have finally achieved your life long dream of being a DC mod. Welcome to the NWO. He's put me on a 50% warning because I got fed up of his drivel and said so in no uncertain terms and he's used his moderating power to try and silence me. I voted Tory for the first time in my life (former member of Labour Party) because most of my Jewish friends would have found it impossible to remain in UK had Corbyn been elected. In addition to his friendship with Hamas, Hezbollah and IRA, he's completely unfit to govern and retain this country's security. I only know two Jewish people (a work colleague and my Union Branch Treasurer) and they both voted Labour. You’ll probably tell me they aren’t proper Jews or something, as you did earlier in the thread, but they had no issues with the party.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 17:52:18 GMT
This thread needs closing as it's about 4 or 5 people having an argument about something they can do nothing about for 5 years.
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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 18:01:56 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 15, 2019 18:01:56 GMT
This thread needs closing as it's about 4 or 5 people having an argument about something they can do nothing about for 5 years. It’ll be a lot lot longer than five years as, with a big majority, Johnson could well get his way in merging any neighbouring constituencies that Labour hold and getting rid of the Fixed Term Parliament Act.
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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 18:16:39 GMT
Post by Deva Chanter on Dec 15, 2019 18:16:39 GMT
Why are you editing truthful posts? I thought you were all about free speech. You have finally achieved your life long dream of being a DC mod. Welcome to the NWO. He's put me on a 50% warning because I got fed up of his drivel and said so in no uncertain terms and he's used his moderating power to try and silence me. I voted Tory for the first time in my life (former member of Labour Party) because most of my Jewish friends would have found it impossible to remain in UK had Corbyn been elected. In addition to his friendship with Hamas, Hezbollah and IRA, he's completely unfit to govern and retain this country's security. Colour me shocked that a massive Islamophobe voted for the Tories. With respect, I'm astonished you are even allowed on here at all following that disgusting piece of dog-whistle racism.
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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 20:24:34 GMT
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Post by 1paulcarden on Dec 15, 2019 20:24:34 GMT
This thread needs closing as it's about 4 or 5 people having an argument about something they can do nothing about for 5 years. It’ll be a lot lot longer than five years as, with a big majority, Johnson could well get his way in merging any neighbouring constituencies that Labour hold and getting rid of the Fixed Term Parliament Act. Quite frightening isn’t it? Should probably call for a change of tactics so we can effectively oppose? Or do we vote for more Student Union bullshit?
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BREXIT
Dec 15, 2019 20:26:20 GMT
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Post by 1paulcarden on Dec 15, 2019 20:26:20 GMT
But lads. It was pure. Oh so pure.
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