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Post by dmcnally on Apr 21, 2018 18:32:24 GMT
The Football Working Group seem to have chosen full-time already for next season, but that has been met with quite a bit of opposition, with concerns surrounding our ability to remain full-time on the budget we will be operating with.
Just interested to see what people think in a poll?
This is only for what model you would want to see next season, not what model you believe we should adopt for the long-term future.
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Post by btb on Apr 21, 2018 18:33:44 GMT
Which ever model fits in best with our academy. Anything else would be suicide and ten steps backwards.
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Post by Oaks Blue on Apr 21, 2018 18:36:56 GMT
Full time, purely so we can continue the progression from our academy to the full team, I'd rather watch a team full of local youth lads next season than waste the budget on dregs like we did this season.
Whether that can still be achieved by some sort of hybrid I'm not sure, but I am siding with the board on this occasion.
More football people needed within the club but I think this is a good strategy if we can recruit the correct balance of backroom staff to make it work
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Post by Oaks Blue on Apr 21, 2018 18:38:02 GMT
Also why have you specified that this poll is only for next season? How short sighted is that?
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Post by dmcnally on Apr 21, 2018 18:39:43 GMT
Also why have you specified that this poll is only for next season? How short sighted is that? Because it is next season when we have these budget issues with the lads on two-year contracts making it difficult to have, or afford, a full-time squad. The debate for the long-term future is for another day and it'd probably be a clear win for the full-time model anyway.
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Post by Oaks Blue on Apr 21, 2018 18:53:35 GMT
Also why have you specified that this poll is only for next season? How short sighted is that? Because it is next season when we have these budget issues with the lads on two-year contracts making it difficult to have, or afford, a full-time squad. The debate for the long-term future is for another day and it'd probably be a clear win for the full-time model anyway. We've got 4 or 5 youth lads who are capable of playing at national league level, I can see more lads coming up to the first team next season and thriving so I don't see what all the fuss is about. Ship The crocks on 2 year deals out in the summer and we'll be fine. The key is getting a manager in who buys into the ethos of giving our own lads a chance in the first team
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Post by bluboy79 on Apr 21, 2018 19:07:11 GMT
We have to go part time next season to stabilise the club, anything else will see us struggling . How anyone can think we can employ a competitive squad on 250k is beyond me - if we had a 20 man squad the average wage would be 300 quid a week !!! Who will play full time for that ? Yes we have some very promising young players waiting in the wings but they need bringing in gradually , most are not ready for National league football yet . It appears to me the board are going shit or bust with 1700 gate estimations so we need to it the ground running and thus means players that know the Northern division.
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Post by Oaks Blue on Apr 21, 2018 19:10:48 GMT
Say we went part time, and brought in a load of part time players along with our full time youngsters and did well and ended up getting promoted. We would have to move our part time players on like we did last time we won that league. That's not a sustainable strategy in the slightest.
Let's stay full time and build our club slowly, which is what we should have done when we reformed
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Post by bluboy79 on Apr 21, 2018 19:20:03 GMT
We will be lucky to stay up next season, being full time on our gates is a pipe dream ! I don't understand this let's build the club ? Where will the money come from to do this ? We've always been a smallish club with crowds between 1500-2500 depending on success, I wish I was wrong but as a fans owned club we have it the wall !
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Post by btb on Apr 21, 2018 19:20:24 GMT
Going part time is so short sighted. We were given a taste of the future today. Bollocks to signing lads from Sheffield, Mansfield etc. We have good quality players on our doorstep and with a sprinkle of seasoned pros amongst them it can work. Calum spoke after the game how much miles Anderson had helped them this week in training. This is the type of person we need at the club. I saw Mahon screaming at Thomson today for not overlapping him, this in spite of the fact Mahon ignored him all first half. That is not what we need at our club.
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Post by Oaks Blue on Apr 21, 2018 19:23:59 GMT
We will be lucky to stay up next season, being full time on our gates is a pipe dream ! I don't understand this let's build the club ? Where will the money come from to do this ? We've always been a smallish club with crowds between 1500-2500 depending on success, I wish I was wrong but as a fans owned club we have it the wall ! This is just not true at all. What are you basing such a negative outlook on? We have been wasting our money since reforming! We need to rebuild and do it right this time. We can only do that by galvanising the fanbase by bringing our own through and profiting when they are ready to step up
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Post by bluboy79 on Apr 21, 2018 19:32:06 GMT
We haven't been wasting our money since we reforming we just don't have enough of it to compete at a level our supporters want, the negative outlook is based on watching complete shit for about 5 years ! It's great we have some promising lads coming through but unless club opens up to some other kind of ownership model we are going nowhere . New bars , training grounds, etc are not going to happen. Fans will not pay and turn up to watch any more dross, this season is make or break in my eyes
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Post by Oaks Blue on Apr 21, 2018 19:40:02 GMT
We haven't been wasting our money since we reforming we just don't have enough of it to compete at a level our supporters want, the negative outlook is based on watching complete shit for about 5 years ! It's great we have some promising lads coming through but unless club opens up to some other kind of ownership model we are going nowhere . New bars , training grounds, etc are not going to happen. Fans will not pay and turn up to watch any more dross, this season is make or break in my eyes The jump from north to premier at the time was too much for the club and has been ever since. We are remaining fan owned and that's the end of that, so if we find our level and that ends up being the north then fine, I'm good with that to be honest. Some fans seem to think we should be in league 2 but that is just a dream. It's time the fanbase woke up and realised that we need to build slowly and focus on bring academy lads through to generate funds which should then only be used to build the infrastructure of the club to generate money for the long term future Lurching from crisis to crisis will only drive more young fans away and that will kill the club
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Post by bluboy79 on Apr 21, 2018 19:57:52 GMT
Reality is fans will not be flocking to watch us play against teams like Curzon Ashton and Brackley , if we are in the north more than a few seasons we will be lucky to get 1000 crowds at games. If being fan owned at all costs means playing in crappy regional football just to survive then I don't see the point ,fans want ambition and without fans the club has no future. We are hoping to sell lots of season tickets over the summer yet not once has anyone connected with board or club stated that it's our ambition to bounce back to National league as soon as possible. We should be aiming for the play offs minimum !
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Post by Oaks Blue on Apr 21, 2018 20:06:48 GMT
Reality is fans will not be flocking to watch us play against teams like Curzon Ashton and Brackley , if we are in the north more than a few seasons we will be lucky to get 1000 crowds at games. If being fan owned at all costs means playing in crappy regional football just to survive then I don't see the point ,fans want ambition and without fans the club has no future. We are hoping to sell lots of season tickets over the summer yet not once has anyone connected with board or club stated that it's our ambition to bounce back to National league as soon as possible. We should be aiming for the play offs minimum ! Ambition or stupidity? Ambition to me is building long term for the future. There are too many clubs living beyond their means for us to compete and that's the reality!
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Post by bethnalblue on Apr 21, 2018 21:16:35 GMT
Because it is next season when we have these budget issues with the lads on two-year contracts making it difficult to have, or afford, a full-time squad. The debate for the long-term future is for another day and it'd probably be a clear win for the full-time model anyway. We've got 4 or 5 youth lads who are capable of playing at national league level, I can see more lads coming up to the first team next season and thriving so I don't see what all the fuss is about. Ship The crocks on 2 year deals out in the summer and we'll be fine. The key is getting a manager in who buys into the ethos of giving our own lads a chance in the first team Which 4 or 5 would they be then?
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Apr 21, 2018 21:32:50 GMT
Crawford Joned Brown Cain Noble Thompson with possibly more to follow. Or would you rather we sign more over the hill journeyman on inflated wages. Add some steel to the team to help Callums youngters and bin the rest
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Post by bethnalblue on Apr 21, 2018 21:51:43 GMT
Crawford Joned Brown Cain Noble Thompson with possibly more to follow. Or would you rather we sign more over the hill journeyman on inflated wages. Add some steel to the team to help Callums youngters and bin the rest Settle down!! I just asked which of the Youth players he thought could cut it next year. Always someome on here looking for an argument.
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Post by True Blue Wiggity Poo on Apr 21, 2018 21:56:12 GMT
I doubt Crawford & Jones will be with us next season to be honest
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Post by Oaks Blue on Apr 21, 2018 22:29:26 GMT
19 votes for a hybrid, anyone care to speculate or inform what exactly that means?
To me it sounds like we want half the squad to just train twice a week and expect the rest of the lads to train 5 times a week and gel with people who aren't even there most of the time... That's bonkers, but I'm happy to be convinced otherwise!
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Post by Lobster on Apr 22, 2018 7:10:06 GMT
I think we’re making too much of the whole issue.
As Calum said at the meeting, there are “full-time” players who train and earn less than part-timers. If people have a vision full-timers being on the training pitch 9-5 Monday to Friday, while part-timers spend a day plastering, plumbing, fitting loft conversions or whatever and then having a kickabout in the evening, they’re completely mistaken.
We need to base our model around the players we can get. If the right player becomes available, we shouldn’t turn him away because he can’t commit to full-time training, nor because he wants to make playing for us his first priority.
The club and board have made this into a huge public fallout. It’s something that should’ve been decided by now and the common sense solution is to allow some flexibility either way.
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Post by Oaks Blue on Apr 22, 2018 8:26:14 GMT
I think we’re making too much of the whole issue. As Calum said at the meeting, there are “full-time” players who train and earn less than part-timers. If people have a vision full-timers being on the training pitch 9-5 Monday to Friday, while part-timers spend a day plastering, plumbing, fitting loft conversions or whatever and then having a kickabout in the evening, they’re completely mistaken. We need to base our model around the players we can get. If the right player becomes available, we shouldn’t turn him away because he can’t commit to full-time training, nor because he wants to make playing for us his first priority. The club and board have made this into a huge public fallout. It’s something that should’ve been decided by now and the common sense solution is to allow some flexibility either way. What does the hybrid look like then?
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Post by tarvinblue on Apr 22, 2018 8:51:57 GMT
I think we’re making too much of the whole issue. As Calum said at the meeting, there are “full-time” players who train and earn less than part-timers. If people have a vision full-timers being on the training pitch 9-5 Monday to Friday, while part-timers spend a day plastering, plumbing, fitting loft conversions or whatever and then having a kickabout in the evening, they’re completely mistaken. We need to base our model around the players we can get. If the right player becomes available, we shouldn’t turn him away because he can’t commit to full-time training, nor because he wants to make playing for us his first priority. The club and board have made this into a huge public fallout. It’s something that should’ve been decided by now and the common sense solution is to allow some flexibility either way. The issue is that the vast majority of advice the football club have been given, from people who understand these matters, is that we should embrace a hyrid model, in whatever form that needs to take to protect the youth. However, Calvin Hughes - with support from his mate Lawrence Kirkby - has decided to ignore such advice and pursue this full time model. This has led to resignations from the FWG and led to the anger at the meeting on Wednesday night and a poll on here with an overwhelming majority result. It might turn out in time that the FWG is correct on this matter but currently they are ignoring the vast majority of advice that they are being given and taking a significant gamble at a time when absolutely we need to make the right decision for the club moving forwards. Hopefully, if they don't listen to anyone else, they listen to the new manager as their view needs to be the one that ultimately counts.
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Post by Imperial on Apr 22, 2018 8:53:11 GMT
I think we’re making too much of the whole issue. As Calum said at the meeting, there are “full-time” players who train and earn less than part-timers. If people have a vision full-timers being on the training pitch 9-5 Monday to Friday, while part-timers spend a day plastering, plumbing, fitting loft conversions or whatever and then having a kickabout in the evening, they’re completely mistaken. We need to base our model around the players we can get. If the right player becomes available, we shouldn’t turn him away because he can’t commit to full-time training, nor because he wants to make playing for us his first priority. The club and board have made this into a huge public fallout. It’s something that should’ve been decided by now and the common sense solution is to allow some flexibility either way. What does the hybrid look like then? As Al said above, some players would be with us on a full time basis, others on a more part time basis.
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Post by Lobster on Apr 22, 2018 9:02:00 GMT
I think we’re making too much of the whole issue. As Calum said at the meeting, there are “full-time” players who train and earn less than part-timers. If people have a vision full-timers being on the training pitch 9-5 Monday to Friday, while part-timers spend a day plastering, plumbing, fitting loft conversions or whatever and then having a kickabout in the evening, they’re completely mistaken. We need to base our model around the players we can get. If the right player becomes available, we shouldn’t turn him away because he can’t commit to full-time training, nor because he wants to make playing for us his first priority. The club and board have made this into a huge public fallout. It’s something that should’ve been decided by now and the common sense solution is to allow some flexibility either way. What does the hybrid look like then? I’d say not dissimilar to what we’ve got now and what we’ve had in the past. We all know the budget. I’d say we’d be better putting our trust in a new manager and telling him to use it as he sees fit, then base our model around that. I don’t have enough football knowledge to dictate that we should go full-time or part-time, and I’m not sure Calvin Hughes does either.
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Post by Oaks Blue on Apr 22, 2018 9:29:55 GMT
It's plainly obvious that at this stage people are just speculating about the benefits of a hybrid model and can't even define what it would be.
This poll doesn't tell us or the board anything I'm afraid.
Unless we can figure out a way for the best part time players who also have day jobs to be fitting someone's bathroom and playing football at the same time I think it's a terrible idea long term
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 9:32:18 GMT
...which is how we won this league last time we were in it.
Personally i think its nuts to have the SIXTH tier of football full time, with players scratching a minimum wage career.
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Post by Oaks Blue on Apr 22, 2018 9:35:14 GMT
...which is how we won this league last time we were in it. Personally i think its nuts to have the SIXTH tier of football full time, with players scratching a minimum wage career. And when we do get promoted from the north what happens then? Another complete rebuild because the part time players won't travel during the week or train enough hours for the national league? Let's fill the squad with young hungry players who won't cost what people think they will and try to get some bloody continuity which has been severely lacking since reformation
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Post by Jack on Apr 22, 2018 10:17:51 GMT
...which is how we won this league last time we were in it. Personally i think its nuts to have the SIXTH tier of football full time, with players scratching a minimum wage career. And when we do get promoted from the north what happens then? Another complete rebuild because the part time players won't travel during the week or train enough hours for the national league? Let's fill the squad with young hungry players who won't cost what people think they will and try to get some bloody continuity which has been severely lacking since reformation I absolutely agree with the idea of younger players on full time deals, developing and improving all the time. I just can't see how we can possibly do it on our budget. With a budget of 250K, we'd be able to afford 17 players on 300 per week, and that is hugely concerning. I've no idea what the average player in the conference north earns, but I imagine the good ones are on a lot more than that? The idea is great, I just worry we'll be physically outmuscled by superior players and be relegated by March.
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Post by Oaks Blue on Apr 22, 2018 10:22:40 GMT
And when we do get promoted from the north what happens then? Another complete rebuild because the part time players won't travel during the week or train enough hours for the national league? Let's fill the squad with young hungry players who won't cost what people think they will and try to get some bloody continuity which has been severely lacking since reformation I absolutely agree with the idea of younger players on full time deals, developing and improving all the time. I just can't see how we can possibly do it on our budget. With a budget of 250K, we'd be able to afford 17 players on 300 per week, and that is hugely concerning. I've no idea what the average player in the conference north earns, but I imagine the good ones are on a lot more than that? The idea is great, I just worry we'll be physically outmuscled by superior players and be relegated by March. The new manager will undoubtedly have to use the long term loans with maximum effect, we could have 4 season long loans at no cost to the club and then beef that up with some shorter term loan deals later on in the year to cover injuries etc. It can be done
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