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Post by happyclapper52 on May 31, 2018 8:33:53 GMT
Don't understand why contractually agreed terms re Tom Crawford can't be made public?
As a fans owned club we should know the facts and not just the Board as this just promotes lack of transparency.
Can't be hidden from the FA or the taxman so why hide from us ?
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Post by Lobster on May 31, 2018 8:40:08 GMT
It could be at Notts County's request I suppose. I would agree that we should not be withholding information like this out of our own choice.
Really, I think all transfer fees should be public knowledge.
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Post by puffthemagicdragon on May 31, 2018 8:41:09 GMT
Perhaps with it not being common knowledge it might strengthen the managers' hands when negotiating for players to come in. Why let everyone know we perhaps have a little more cash to play with if we don't have to? This time of the year always makes me think of a poker game with managers trying to sign players, but also not wanting to be too generous - or at least it should be as perhaps last season demonstrated what happens when players know we have a much bigger wage pot to play with.
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Post by poolepirate on May 31, 2018 8:46:07 GMT
its not just this transfer where the fee is said as undisclosed if you check on the bbc website all transfers where a fee is involved are shown in this way.i think it was the same with the sam hughes transfer but the fee involved came out in the end but i agree as a fan owned club be nice to know in order that we aware of the financial situation overall
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on May 31, 2018 8:47:00 GMT
Perhaps with it not being common knowledge it might strengthen the managers' hands when negotiating for players to come in. Why let everyone know we perhaps have a little more cash to play with if we don't have to? This time of the year always makes me think of a poker game with managers trying to sign players, but also not wanting to be too generous - or at least it should be as perhaps last season demonstrated what happens when players know we have a much bigger wage pot to play with. The fact that our proposed investment from a local multi-millionaire has been plastered all over the press and social media effectively scuppers your point.
I agree with the original poster and with Lobster - all transfer fees should be made known, even moreso to our owners and I hope this question is asked at the next owners meeting which I believe is next week.
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Post by paulie on May 31, 2018 8:57:42 GMT
I may be wrong but wont the transfer fee be written on the end of year accounts?
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Post by alancfc on May 31, 2018 9:06:42 GMT
I may be wrong but wont the transfer fee be written on the end of year accounts? Yes there will likely be a Income item on the P&L, for 'Transfer fee's' which would include all money received. This season this will included the £55K second instalment on Sam, the £25K for Alabi, so whatever remains will be the fee for Crawfs. Edit: Should say that is not the fee thats most important, its the sell on clauses as Tom will most likely be sold higher up the food chain in 1/2 seasons. |
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Post by happyclapper on May 31, 2018 9:12:38 GMT
I may be wrong but wont the transfer fee be written on the end of year accounts? yeah but not this years accounts - the accounts are made upto 28th May - so any transfer fee's for Tom won't appear in the next set of accounts that are presented later in the year, they will appear in the following years. |
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Post by tinagsdog on May 31, 2018 10:27:29 GMT
Could work in our favour teams/ players not knowing how much money we're getting.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2018 11:42:57 GMT
Some right knicker twisting going on here. As above, all CFU members will get to know the transfer fee in time in the accounts, the undisclosed thing will be a Notts County request. I would be surprised if it was a lot, I'd imagine less than Alabi as the lad was out of contract, and had only spent 2 seasons here so development time would be limited. Again as above the sell on here is the key. Tom does well, gets picked up for a couple of million by a Championship side, happy days.
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Post by marner93 on May 31, 2018 11:55:17 GMT
I may be wrong but wont the transfer fee be written on the end of year accounts? Yes there will likely be a Income item on the P&L, for 'Transfer fee's' which would include all money received. This season this will included the £55K second instalment on Sam, the £25K for Alabi, so whatever remains will be the fee for Crawfs. Edit: Should say that is not the fee thats most important, its the sell on clauses as Tom will most likely be sold higher up the food chain in 1/2 seasons. Hasn't that already been squandered? |
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Post by alancfc on May 31, 2018 13:01:02 GMT
Yes there will likely be a Income item on the P&L, for 'Transfer fee's' which would include all money received. This season this will included the £55K second instalment on Sam, the £25K for Alabi, so whatever remains will be the fee for Crawfs. Edit: Should say that is not the fee thats most important, its the sell on clauses as Tom will most likely be sold higher up the food chain in 1/2 seasons. Hasn't that already been squandered? Most probably yes, but they must shown on the P&L for the year, irrespective of whether (or not more likely) we still have the cash. |
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Post by poolepirate on May 31, 2018 13:16:32 GMT
if we agree or not that the details of the deal are kept secret we have to respect the views of the 2 clubs involved
what i dont agree with is the press finding out the details of the deal when the fans (the owners)are not told
ok if any news given to the press is for them to report it in their paper i have no issue with that but in this case the details will not be reported in the chronicle etc
the chronicle report today that the sell on clause is substantial so they must know details of the deal which cant be right because as well as press they are fans.
i would be interested to hear a board members views on the press and sharing of confidential information
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on May 31, 2018 13:30:07 GMT
if we agree or not that the details of the deal are kept secret we have to respect the views of the 2 clubs involved what i dont agree with is the press finding out the details of the deal when the fans (the owners)are not told ok if any news given to the press is for them to report it in their paper i have no issue with that but in this case the details will not be reported in the chronicle etc the chronicle report today that the sell on clause is substantial so they must know details of the deal which cant be right because as well as press they are fans. i would be interested to hear a board members views on the press and sharing of confidential information To be fair, I would've thought the press were only told the word "substantial" rather than any actual financial figures.
To answer your main point, surely the club are naturally using the press to get the information out to the owners and the wider fanbase.
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Post by poolepirate on May 31, 2018 13:47:10 GMT
yes i agree re the club using the press to get info out and im grateful for that of course but my point is why were the press told anything when fans were told details of the deal we to be kept confidential
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2018 14:30:47 GMT
As above, the press will have been told "there is a substantial sell on clause". Not the %-age. Again this will have been worded in agreement with Notts.
The club have told this to the press so that our supporters get to know.
Whilst I agree that the best way would be for the club to do an email newsletter weekly to supporters/members, they just don't have the people in place to do it.
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Post by happyclapper52 on May 31, 2018 15:53:32 GMT
Some right knicker twisting going on here. As above, all CFU members will get to know the transfer fee in time in the accounts, the undisclosed thing will be a Notts County request. I would be surprised if it was a lot, I'd imagine less than Alabi as the lad was out of contract, and had only spent 2 seasons here so development time would be limited. Again as above the sell on here is the key. Tom does well, gets picked up for a couple of million by a Championship side, happy days. Re my original post this was not "knicker twisting" just a quest for transparency.Don't understand why some transfer details are made public and others not if written into a physical contract ? Doesn't make sense even more so if we are all "owners"? Are you telling me it is reasonable for an "owner" of a business to be kept in the dark of the business' income and expenditure including individual salaries ? In that case we are neither employees(where the Board would know) or owners? |
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Post by happyclapper52 on May 31, 2018 15:57:26 GMT
It could be at Notts County's request I suppose. I would agree that we should not be withholding information like this out of our own choice. Really, I think all transfer fees should be public knowledge. Notts County's request ? Why should that be exactly We are allegedly a fans owned club requiring openness and transparency so should say "tough shit" to Notts County as not our model ? |
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Post by Oaks Blue on May 31, 2018 16:37:16 GMT
Give it a rest man
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Post by happyclapper52 on May 31, 2018 16:50:17 GMT
[br So are you happy to be kept in the dark OB ? Or have you not renewed your CFU subscription and therefore not an owner? That would explain your attitude matey ! 😃 |
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Post by Oaks Blue on May 31, 2018 16:55:18 GMT
[br So are you happy to be kept in the dark OB ? Or have you not renewed your CFU subscription and therefore not an owner? That would explain your attitude matey ! 😃 You need to change your name Sincerely yours CFU member |
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Post by Al on May 31, 2018 16:55:44 GMT
It could be at Notts County's request I suppose. I would agree that we should not be withholding information like this out of our own choice. Really, I think all transfer fees should be public knowledge. Notts County's request ? Why should that be exactly We are allegedly a fans owned club requiring openness and transparency so should say "tough shit" to Notts County as not our model ? And then risk Notts County playing hardball, it going to a tribunal and us having to wait until next year for a fee and sell on to be decided? Plus added risk of getting a lower upfront fee? You need to change your name, I think Unhappyflapper would be more appropriate |
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Post by Al on May 31, 2018 16:56:31 GMT
[br So are you happy to be kept in the dark OB ? Or have you not renewed your CFU subscription and therefore not an owner? That would explain your attitude matey ! 😃 You need to change your name Sincerely yours CFU member Ha great minds... |
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Post by Lobster on May 31, 2018 16:57:19 GMT
It could be at Notts County's request I suppose. I would agree that we should not be withholding information like this out of our own choice. Really, I think all transfer fees should be public knowledge. Notts County's request ? Why should that be exactly We are allegedly a fans owned club requiring openness and transparency so should say "tough shit" to Notts County as not our model ? As I said, it would be nice to know, but I understand that deals are a two-way thing and it’s not always that simple. I can get over not knowing for the time being, and so should you. |
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Post by banksy on May 31, 2018 18:31:55 GMT
As above, the press will have been told "there is a substantial sell on clause". Not the %-age. Again this will have been worded in agreement with Notts. The club have told this to the press so that our supporters get to know. Whilst I agree that the best way would be for the club to do an email newsletter weekly to supporters/members, they just don't have the people in place to do it.Hoping to bring this back very soon!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 7:34:53 GMT
Some right knicker twisting going on here. As above, all CFU members will get to know the transfer fee in time in the accounts, the undisclosed thing will be a Notts County request. I would be surprised if it was a lot, I'd imagine less than Alabi as the lad was out of contract, and had only spent 2 seasons here so development time would be limited. Again as above the sell on here is the key. Tom does well, gets picked up for a couple of million by a Championship side, happy days. Re my original post this was not "knicker twisting" just a quest for transparency.Don't understand why some transfer details are made public and others not if written into a physical contract ? Doesn't make sense even more so if we are all "owners"? Are you telling me it is reasonable for an "owner" of a business to be kept in the dark of the business' income and expenditure including individual salaries ? In that case we are neither employees(where the Board would know) or owners? As well as confidential contract information, you now want to know peoples salaries too!? Do you expect someone from CFC to email you every time they make an order to Viking Direct for some envelopes because you pay a £1 a month? If I hold shares in B&Q, making me an owner, do I know how much they pay for a bag of sand? No. Do I know how much the store manager earns? No. Do I get to find out their cost of sales and revenues, including breakdowns by stock cost and staff costs, in the annual accounts? Yes. If you REALLY want to know what people earn, and if you really want to know the ins and outs of the financials at the club then you would need to be on the board. Reading some of your posts this is what you crave for your £12, so maybe standing at the next AGM would be the solution to your obvious woes? |
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Post by eyeswideopen on Jun 1, 2018 7:56:57 GMT
We have no "owners" that's what makes us different.
Your 12 quid a year is a membership fee of the CFU, its not ownership.
It allows you to have a vote on who runs the club, not owns it.
Those that run the club have been asked to not to make the details of the transfer public, that's a contract, that's legal, that's binding.
As NWAS says above, if you want to know the ins and out of a cats arse, then paying your 12 quid wont suffice.
Its a fact that 99.99% of the CFU membership are happy with.
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Post by happyclapper52 on Jun 1, 2018 8:10:19 GMT
Re my original post this was not "knicker twisting" just a quest for transparency.Don't understand why some transfer details are made public and others not if written into a physical contract ? Doesn't make sense even more so if we are all "owners"? Are you telling me it is reasonable for an "owner" of a business to be kept in the dark of the business' income and expenditure including individual salaries ? In that case we are neither employees(where the Board would know) or owners? As well as confidential contract information, you now want to know peoples salaries too!? Do you expect someone from CFC to email you every time they make an order to Viking Direct for some envelopes because you pay a £1 a month? If I hold shares in B&Q, making me an owner, do I know how much they pay for a bag of sand? No. Do I know how much the store manager earns? No. Do I get to find out their cost of sales and revenues, including breakdowns by stock cost and staff costs, in the annual accounts? Yes. If you REALLY want to know what people earn, and if you really want to know the ins and outs of the financials at the club then you would need to be on the board. Reading some of your posts this is what you crave for your £12, so maybe standing at the next AGM would be the solution to your obvious woes? Bloody hell Mark..all I suggested was that I see no reason to keep secret any transfer fee or associated terms such as sell on especially as fans owned. In fact even non fans owned clubs should be able to disclose such details to their supporters across all leagues. Only club to club terms so should not included individual salaries,bags of sand or stationery. Hope this clarifies |
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Post by dmcnally on Jun 1, 2018 8:29:53 GMT
There has to be a line drawn between communication with owners (us) and business confidentiality with some transfers, contracts etc. We have to run as a proper footballing business, not some Mickey Mouse outfit who tell us every time some money comes in or out of the club.
Sometimes you’ve just got to leave the elected board to it.
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Post by happyclapper52 on Jun 1, 2018 13:02:06 GMT
There has to be a line drawn between communication with owners (us) and business confidentiality with some transfers, contracts etc. We have to run as a proper footballing business, not some Mickey Mouse outfit who tell us every time some money comes in or out of the club. Sometimes you’ve just got to leave the elected board to it. Where did I say "every time" ? Please re-read post. |
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