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Post by agl on May 9, 2019 9:32:12 GMT
All not well at Macc despite their survival in League Two on the last day. Players not paid for April (an ongoing issue) and say they considered boycotting the last game. Owe money to HMRC, average attendance around the 2,000 mark. Hard to see how they can survive the Summer with no matchday revenue. Something has to change, not just there but at countless small clubs. And looking at our situation it brings home how a return to the football league is well-nigh impossible. Eventually, all these clubs are going to have to go semi pro unless there is sugar Daddy/ Daddies with very deep pockets. With the wages being paid to the likes of Adam Rooney at Salford (4k a week reportedly), how does anyone compete? The Salfords, Fyldes, Forest Greens and Fleetwoods will prosper for a while but it's a very fragile existence. Meanwhile the others go bust trying to keep up.
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Post by uptheseals on May 9, 2019 10:25:51 GMT
Disagree with Fylde They're very sustainable and spend alot of the money invested into the club in the infrastructure they've built something good there
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Post by agl on May 9, 2019 11:11:51 GMT
Disagree with Fylde They're very sustainable and spend alot of the money invested into the club in the infrastructure they've built something good there Maybe a poor example, just one that came to mind, and saw they had an attendance of 1500 or so for the first play off. Is that sustainable? Essentially two small clubs welded together by a guy who wanted to buy Blackpool and was looking for a new plaything? With Blackpool now rid of the Oystons I wonder how Fylde will go forwards.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on May 9, 2019 11:32:02 GMT
Disagree with Fylde They're very sustainable and spend alot of the money invested into the club in the infrastructure they've built something good there Maybe a poor example, just one that came to mind, and saw they had an attendance of 1500 or so for the first play off. Is that sustainable? Essentially two small clubs welded together by a guy who wanted to buy Blackpool and was looking for a new plaything? With Blackpool now rid of the Oystons I wonder how Fylde will go forwards.
Agree. They remain totally dependent on the rich owner and would crumble if he went. Hardly a great example of how to run a football club.
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Post by Moltisanti on May 9, 2019 11:41:59 GMT
Maybe a poor example, just one that came to mind, and saw they had an attendance of 1500 or so for the first play off. Is that sustainable? Essentially two small clubs welded together by a guy who wanted to buy Blackpool and was looking for a new plaything? With Blackpool now rid of the Oystons I wonder how Fylde will go forwards.
Agree. They remain totally dependent on the rich owner and would crumble if he went. Hardly a great example of how to run a football club. How is it the owners fault more fans don’t turn up? That’s like blaming our board because our fans don’t turn up.
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Post by agl on May 9, 2019 12:36:24 GMT
No one is blaming the owners, although I question the motives of some. Merely that places like Macclesfield and the Fylde peninsula can't in the modern age of saturation TV coverage sustain league football without huge cash injections. The reality is that there a few, but not enough, dedicated fans but the wider populations don't give a shit. Same in Chester, sadly, which is why our level may well be where we are now. Not sure there are many examples of clubs growing organically. Possibly Exeter, although they have been reliant on Cup runs and selling players. AFC Wimbledon do OK but have some wealthy fans, I believe.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2019 12:52:15 GMT
Maybe a poor example, just one that came to mind, and saw they had an attendance of 1500 or so for the first play off. Is that sustainable? Essentially two small clubs welded together by a guy who wanted to buy Blackpool and was looking for a new plaything? With Blackpool now rid of the Oystons I wonder how Fylde will go forwards.
Agree. They remain totally dependent on the rich owner and would crumble if he went. Hardly a great example of how to run a football club. Yes, doubt whether their community and commercial arms would be as good without the £4m their owner spent on facilities, new ground etc. A resurgent Blackpool would make things very difficult for Fylde and Fleetwood. Whilst I wish them the best these clubs are not long term sustainable and it is the original fans (like the burger van lady at Salford) who will suffer.
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Post by catfordbags on May 9, 2019 13:05:04 GMT
No excuse for any league two club to go bust.... they get £450k in annual central funding ... live within your means... if you can’t afford a players contract then don’t offer it. Sustainability is not rocket science.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on May 9, 2019 14:05:54 GMT
Agree. They remain totally dependent on the rich owner and would crumble if he went. Hardly a great example of how to run a football club. How is it the owners fault more fans don’t turn up? That’s like blaming our board because our fans don’t turn up. Not only do you miss the point but you then follow it up with an awful analogy. Impressive!
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Post by agl on May 9, 2019 14:53:25 GMT
No excuse for any league two club to go bust.... they get £450k in annual central funding ... live within your means... if you can’t afford a players contract then don’t offer it. Sustainability is not rocket science. It's not that simple. 450k is nothing. If you pay rubbish wages you lose matches, crowds drop, fans become disgruntled, you get relegated. No wonder some chase the dream....hoping for a Cup run, unearthing a gem in the youth team or from the lower leagues to sell on, hoping that by paying over the odds the league position will be better and crowds improve. Not hard to see how it can all go horribly wrong.
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Post by Hannibal on May 9, 2019 14:55:55 GMT
No excuse for any league two club to go bust.... they get £450k in annual central funding ... live within your means... if you can’t afford a players contract then don’t offer it. Sustainability is not rocket science. Perhaps AVFO will correct me if I'm wrong but I think League 2 clubs get a lot more that £450k.
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Post by avfo on May 9, 2019 16:04:08 GMT
No excuse for any league two club to go bust.... they get £450k in annual central funding ... live within your means... if you can’t afford a players contract then don’t offer it. Sustainability is not rocket science. Perhaps AVFO will correct me if I'm wrong but I think League 2 clubs get a lot more that £450k. Including solidarity payments it's double that.
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Post by Hannibal on May 9, 2019 18:24:53 GMT
Perhaps AVFO will correct me if I'm wrong but I think League 2 clubs get a lot more that £450k. Including solidarity payments it's double that. Yeh just seen on Sky Sports that the L2 clubs get £952k.
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Post by uptheseals on May 10, 2019 0:35:24 GMT
No excuse for any league two club to go bust.... they get £450k in annual central funding ... live within your means... if you can’t afford a players contract then don’t offer it. Sustainability is not rocket science. From what I understand Maccs chairman has been running the club on the bare minimum and stripping any money made for years that's probably why they're in this situation
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Post by midfieldgeneral on May 10, 2019 6:45:14 GMT
No one is blaming the owners, although I question the motives of some. Merely that places like Macclesfield and the Fylde peninsula can't in the modern age of saturation TV coverage sustain league football without huge cash injections. The reality is that there a few, but not enough, dedicated fans but the wider populations don't give a shit. Same in Chester, sadly, which is why our level may well be where we are now. Not sure there are many examples of clubs growing organically. Possibly Exeter, although they have been reliant on Cup runs and selling players. AFC Wimbledon do OK but have some wealthy fans, I believe. Not fan owned but I give you Accrington Stanley, as a club that live within their means but defy the law of gravity
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 7:39:57 GMT
No one is blaming the owners, although I question the motives of some. Merely that places like Macclesfield and the Fylde peninsula can't in the modern age of saturation TV coverage sustain league football without huge cash injections. The reality is that there a few, but not enough, dedicated fans but the wider populations don't give a shit. Same in Chester, sadly, which is why our level may well be where we are now. Not sure there are many examples of clubs growing organically. Possibly Exeter, although they have been reliant on Cup runs and selling players. AFC Wimbledon do OK but have some wealthy fans, I believe. Not fan owned but I give you Accrington Stanley, as a club that live within their means but defy the law of gravity So do we, and they support us well to be fair. Stanley are a club who set a budget and a management team who adhere to it. One hell of a management team though, and a really good recruitment policy. Look at clubs who have had success throughout the EFL this year, Norwich, Sheff Utd, Luton, even Accrington. Managers who can take 'cheap' recruits and get the very, very best out of them. Its not always the biggest budgets that do it, Askey at Macc proved that in the Conference.
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Post by Hannibal on May 10, 2019 7:47:32 GMT
Accrington are 'owned' by Andy Holt, although I'm not sure to what extent he bank-rolls them. They do have a good manager and system though. Well run on the smallest crowds in League 1.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on May 10, 2019 8:37:25 GMT
Andy Holt is also my favourite football personality on Twitter with his insightful posts about the business of football. The stuff last week about academies was really interesting.
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Post by Harry Lime on May 10, 2019 9:23:46 GMT
Accrington are 'owned' by Andy Holt, although I'm not sure to what extent he bank-rolls them. They do have a good manager and system though. Well run on the smallest crowds in League 2. There was a story a while back that they had a silent backer. That may have been Andy Holt before he took over. Maybe not. When we played them late in our relegation year from league 2, Coleman turned up in the same car as Vaughan, apparently. Story is they "bumped into each other in the services". No idea where Coleman left his car. I always wondered whether it was one of Warren's clubs.
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Post by midfieldgeneral on May 10, 2019 10:13:52 GMT
Not fan owned but I give you Accrington Stanley, as a club that live within their means but defy the law of gravity So do we, and they support us well to be fair. Stanley are a club who set a budget and a management team who adhere to it. One hell of a management team though, and a really good recruitment policy. Look at clubs who have had success throughout the EFL this year, Norwich, Sheff Utd, Luton, even Accrington. Managers who can take 'cheap' recruits and get the very, very best out of them. Its not always the biggest budgets that do it, Askey at Macc proved that in the Conference. My point exactly. Sort out the infrstructure, so we have other revenue systems. Get progression from the excellent academy to the first team. Develop an excellent scouting system to identify the best young talent and have a strategic, recruitment policy, with players that are young and likely to have sell on value. For example, if you are going to play a high press game, sign on young, fit playerscwith mobility and energy. And develop this asvpart of a 5 year plan.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on May 10, 2019 10:41:55 GMT
Something the Strategy working group would’ve been tasked with developing I’m sure. I think they disbanded?
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Post by midfieldgeneral on May 10, 2019 12:39:32 GMT
Then it needs to be re-constituted.
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Post by Jack on May 11, 2019 10:47:07 GMT
Not fan owned but I give you Accrington Stanley, as a club that live within their means but defy the law of gravity So do we, and they support us well to be fair. Stanley are a club who set a budget and a management team who adhere to it. One hell of a management team though, and a really good recruitment policy. Look at clubs who have had success throughout the EFL this year, Norwich, Sheff Utd, Luton, even Accrington. Managers who can take 'cheap' recruits and get the very, very best out of them. Its not always the biggest budgets that do it, Askey at Macc proved that in the Conference.Agree with this. Far too much is made of budgets at our level. Of course they're important, but a good management set up and players of the right age, mentality and sense of togetherness can make all of the difference. Good managers make players better, that seems to get forgotten.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Oct 10, 2019 8:29:56 GMT
Macc Town players have once again gone unpaid and have appealed to the League for help. Crowds haven't been great there either recently, hard to see this ending well.
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Post by exiled on Oct 10, 2019 13:14:52 GMT
Macclesfield have always spent beyond their means. Got a lot of respect for Accrington Stanley though. When they were in league 2 they had the second lowest club budget 2.3 million only Dagenham and Redbridge below them on 1.9.So shows what can be done on small budgets
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Post by g1 on Oct 10, 2019 13:49:49 GMT
I enjoy my days in Macclesfield but hardly ever seen us win there hopefully they get through this but looking like a bury situation afraid
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Post by Hannibal on Oct 10, 2019 16:29:42 GMT
Macclesfield have always spent beyond their means. Got a lot of respect for Accrington Stanley though. When they were in league 2 they had the second lowest club budget 2.3 million only Dagenham and Redbridge below them on 1.9.So shows what can be done on small budgets How do you work that out? I think the problem is their owner, who takes more out than he puts in, eg cup runs.
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Post by hackett on Oct 10, 2019 17:07:01 GMT
I enjoy my days in Macclesfield but hardly ever seen us win there hopefully they get through this but looking like a bury situation afraid Doesn't come as a surprise that it's the North West clubs finding themself in this position. Must be the most polulated area of professional clubs in the world?
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Post by exiled on Oct 10, 2019 19:01:11 GMT
Macclesfield have always spent beyond their means. Got a lot of respect for Accrington Stanley though. When they were in league 2 they had the second lowest club budget 2.3 million only Dagenham and Redbridge below them on 1.9.So shows what can be done on small budgets How do you work that out? I think the problem is their owner, who takes more out than he puts in, eg cup runs. Simple economics.spending more than the club generates.Not just them but many other clubs overspend and can't return a profit season after season.
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Post by Hannibal on Oct 11, 2019 6:52:53 GMT
How do you work that out? I think the problem is their owner, who takes more out than he puts in, eg cup runs. Simple economics.spending more than the club generates.Not just them but many other clubs overspend and can't return a profit season after season. I know that, but directors and sugar daddies usually fill the void, but it would seem that this guy at Macclesfield is reluctant to do that. Don't forget without fans raising money, Swettenhams, MBNA, Stuart Murphy and others we've not have survived.
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