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Post by daveblacon on Jul 2, 2019 10:17:37 GMT
I was so pleased to eventually receive my first initial batch of raffle tickets this weekend which went so quickly I had to go to the Club yesterday for some more. Hopefully this raffle is the catalyst we need to start our campaign in earnest to raise the circa £300k we need as our contribution to the project. If like me you want a further update and want to know how we are progressing why not pop in to tonight Tuesday 2nd July to the One Voice for Blacon meeting at 6.00pm at:
The Parade Enterprise Centre, 14 The Parade, Blacon, Chester. CH1 5HN
where our Community Trust CEO Jim Green will be attending to update the Community group on this exciting project.
All are welcome….look forward to see you .
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Post by sealandender1 on Jul 2, 2019 10:50:02 GMT
Well done Dave, keep up the good work.
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Post by agl on Jul 2, 2019 11:25:05 GMT
Playing Devil's advocate a bit here, but should I care about this? It worries me that this is diverting funds away from the first team which absolutely has to be the priority. I get the community stuff but wonder if we are putting the cart before the horse? We already have youth teams etc. How exactly does this help us become an established national league club?
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 2, 2019 11:38:42 GMT
A lot of supporters share your view, including some whom I speak to every day. We need to lose the short-sighted way of thinking and consider the long-term future of the club. Having our own base for the entire academy, scholars and the first team can only be a positive in terms of the calibre of players we will be able to attract across all of those teams, and having a presence in a densely populated area of the city with the club crest plastered everywhere (remember all sorts of people will be able to hire the pitches) can only be a positive in terms of promoting the club’s existence to a wider community, gradually building the future fan base.
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Post by agl on Jul 2, 2019 12:13:21 GMT
Fair enough that makes sense, but my point is really that we need to be thinking short term at the moment. I do feel that interest in the club is ebbing away because of the level we are at. The playing budget is being cut, so every year we remain in regional football the club stagnates or regresses. Is there not a risk we will end up with a shiny new facility for kids who go to Liverpool games or watch their football on TV? IMO the focus at the moment should be on improving the match day experience for young and teenage fans. I don't see a lot of them getting involved in the club. What do we have to offer? Let's face it the quality is not great ...I've taken neutrals to games and they have come away saying exactly that. Same at away games...not much of an atmosphere at most places. I've just received a book of raffle tickets but frankly my feeling is that I'd rather sell a few extra Xmas raffle tickets than use up goodwill from friends who don't follow Chester. Maybe I am being short sighted but I believe we will become a more attractive proposition for sponsors, players, fans etc if we are playing at a national level, so all efforts should be on that. I don't think we can achieve League 2 but should be able to be a solid club in the top tier of non-league.
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Post by gezzer on Jul 2, 2019 13:13:13 GMT
I really CBA'd watching the launch presentation again but if memory serves me right we currently spend £60k+ per season for training facilities across the various Chester FC teams which, not all granted, but a considerable amount will be saved with the KGV hub. The Community Trust will also be able to "buy" services from the first team ie players helping out with youth/girls team training and half term soccer schools. These are just a couple of ways that the Club will benefit from the Hub as well as the CT having access to more grants for Scholarships and of course income from the management of the site. This is no different than if the club had decided to build it next to the stadium which, due to space constraints, was not feasible and also saved in excess of £1.2m in the process. Nobody from the club or Trust will admit to the true cash benefits to the first team as the grants were only accessible in the first place as a community project. I too share the concern that funds might be diverted from the first team but am also aware that this kind of community based project invariably attracts new sponsors/donators who wouldn't invest in the club anyway or in SM case extra funding.
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Post by superman on Jul 2, 2019 14:32:16 GMT
I think that most fans can see the long term benefits that such a development would bring. I genuinely wish all involved the best of luck. For me it is the scale of the current short fall of £350k, which is probably 3 times the monies raised by various means to save he football club 18 months ago which makes the whole scheme seem over ambitious. If Stuart Murphy hadn’t committed £250k then the shortfall would have been even more eye watering. If the figure had been say £50k then this would seem do-able and with a bit of early door impetus steady progress to fund raising would probably occur. Also I think that people are getting a bit fed up of seeming little apparent progress in the utilisation of the funds promised by Stuart Murphy for the direct benefit of the football club itself. If there was good tangible progress with the infrastructure projects then people might be more inclined to support this community spin off project. As someone else posted we must be careful about putting the cart before the horse, or letting no the tail wag the dog. I can see a much scaled back development being the end result.
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Post by Rio Doherty on Jul 2, 2019 14:33:49 GMT
I received a batch of raffle tickets through the post yesterday too and will pick some more up on Saturday. All towards a very worthy cause!
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Post by Churton Blue on Jul 2, 2019 16:05:09 GMT
Fair enough that makes sense, but my point is really that we need to be thinking short term at the moment. I do feel that interest in the club is ebbing away because of the level we are at. The playing budget is being cut, so every year we remain in regional football the club stagnates or regresses. Is there not a risk we will end up with a shiny new facility for kids who go to Liverpool games or watch their football on TV? IMO the focus at the moment should be on improving the match day experience for young and teenage fans. I don't see a lot of them getting involved in the club. What do we have to offer? Let's face it the quality is not great ...I've taken neutrals to games and they have come away saying exactly that. Same at away games...not much of an atmosphere at most places. I've just received a book of raffle tickets but frankly my feeling is that I'd rather sell a few extra Xmas raffle tickets than use up goodwill from friends who don't follow Chester. Maybe I am being short sighted but I believe we will become a more attractive proposition for sponsors, players, fans etc if we are playing at a national level, so all efforts should be on that. I don't think we can achieve League 2 but should be able to be a solid club in the top tier of non-league. We have spent the last 7 or 8 years thinking short term and where has it got us ? Out of interest do you know how much it would cost a family to go to a Liverpool match even if they could get tickets ? We have to get football minded people who live in Chester interested in the club in whatever way it takes otherwise the club faces a bleak future.
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Post by agl on Jul 2, 2019 16:24:34 GMT
Fair enough that makes sense, but my point is really that we need to be thinking short term at the moment. I do feel that interest in the club is ebbing away because of the level we are at. The playing budget is being cut, so every year we remain in regional football the club stagnates or regresses. Is there not a risk we will end up with a shiny new facility for kids who go to Liverpool games or watch their football on TV? IMO the focus at the moment should be on improving the match day experience for young and teenage fans. I don't see a lot of them getting involved in the club. What do we have to offer? Let's face it the quality is not great ...I've taken neutrals to games and they have come away saying exactly that. Same at away games...not much of an atmosphere at most places. I've just received a book of raffle tickets but frankly my feeling is that I'd rather sell a few extra Xmas raffle tickets than use up goodwill from friends who don't follow Chester. Maybe I am being short sighted but I believe we will become a more attractive proposition for sponsors, players, fans etc if we are playing at a national level, so all efforts should be on that. I don't think we can achieve League 2 but should be able to be a solid club in the top tier of non-league. We have spent the last 7 or 8 years thinking short term and where has it got us ? Out of interest do you know how much it would cost a family to go to a Liverpool match even if they could get tickets ? We have to get football minded people who live in Chester interested in the club in whatever way it takes otherwise the club faces a bleak future. The problems we are now facing are nothing to do with thinking short term.
We were doing fine, got ourselves into national league and finished mid-table. Then we made some very poor decisions, re McCarthy under a very weak board. Handing McCarthy a 450k budget instead of showing him the door when he hadn't won a home game since Xmas was a spectacular own goal.
Taking a family of four to see Liverpool (based on cheapest season tickets) would appear to be 89 pounds per game.
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Post by stangandy on Jul 2, 2019 17:58:40 GMT
The respects in which the Community Hub will benefit the club and first team are many. Some have been highlighted by other posters but here are some of the collateral benefits: Because the Community Trust is a Charity we have been able to access £1m public funding that will be invested in the project. That money would have otherwise gone to other clubs, other projects and other parts of the country. The Hub will give the football club a physical presence in the City rather than being forgotten at the end of an industrial estate. If we can't capitalise on that we don't deserve to thrive. The Hub will enable us to market the club to grass roots footballers across the community - they will want to play there and it is through such engagement that future gates are grown. The Hub gives a base for our scholarship programme and will enable us to expand the programme - benefiting the youth set up, finances and give further promotion The first team will be able to use the facility during the day when there is little community demand as with any luck we will be able to move to a full-time set up - perfect use of the asset - we will essentially have a professional, full time training facility for the first time in the club's history As the Community Trust expands we will be able to offer coaching roles for players who wish to do their badges and potentially enhance the offer that the club can make to attract players (Boreham Wood is funded extensively through this type of scheme) We can potentially scale and phase the development of the site to suit our budget and there are commercial and sponsorship opportunities that organisations might find attractive (not instead of sponsoring the club, but in addition to - again as we are a charity it opens up fresh opportunities - some are restricted by policy, regulation or choice to only support charities).
We have been exploring this since the Community Trust was set up. I do understand why people might not immediately see the benefit to the Club - but given all the benefits listed above in this and other posts I think the arguments are compelling.
Whilst of course we are asking supporters to back the scheme through doing things like selling raffle tickets we are actively seeking to exploit other sources of funding (ie £1m public funding) and we will continue to do so. So I don't accept the argument that this in any way detracts from anything the Club might want to do. It is being led by people who are not on the Club Board (people who incidentally also support the Club in many ways).
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Post by sealandender1 on Jul 2, 2019 18:52:21 GMT
Very clear and concise SG; realistically, when do you believe that KGVSH will be ready in a basic format?
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Post by Churton Blue on Jul 2, 2019 19:41:42 GMT
We have spent the last 7 or 8 years thinking short term and where has it got us ? Out of interest do you know how much it would cost a family to go to a Liverpool match even if they could get tickets ? We have to get football minded people who live in Chester interested in the club in whatever way it takes otherwise the club faces a bleak future. The problems we are now facing are nothing to do with thinking short term.
We were doing fine, got ourselves into national league and finished mid-table. Then we made some very poor decisions, re McCarthy under a very weak board. Handing McCarthy a 450k budget instead of showing him the door when he hadn't won a home game since Xmas was a spectacular own goal.
Taking a family of four to see Liverpool (based on cheapest season tickets) would appear to be 89 pounds per game.
Sorry but the facts say otherwise We were not ready for the National League in terms of infrastructure and were relegated in our first season and only reprieved by Hereford going bust. We fought relegation battles in every season bar one. The club/trust have been trying to get a project like this off the ground for over 9 years. A suitable venue and lack of finance have prevented it till now. The post from Stan Gandy illustrates all the positives of the scheme and it is a real shame that a significant minority of supporters want to talk it down. The waiting list for Liverpool season tickets was closed some time ago I understand 20,000 plus remain on it. I think you could add £20 or £30 to your figure if a family could get match day tickets. A lifetime watching and supporting Chester like mine in not affordable or practical if you choose Liverpool or Man Utd instead. At its best supporting a football club is like being part of an extended family and that is still possible at Chester whilst it is only open to the well off if they choose a PL club.
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Post by Imperial on Jul 2, 2019 20:49:48 GMT
Not sure why people are making this a Liverpool vs Chester issue. The reason I have little to no interest in KGV is because it’s primarily a community sports hub for Blacon which is great... for Blacon. I don’t even live in Chester never mind Blacon. On top of that I’ve bought season tickets & throughout the season I’ll spend money on food, drinks etc at the ground. There’s only so much you can keep asking our small fanbase to give & a sports hub is pretty low down on many people’s list of priorities. I don’t think anyone is against it per se, just not passionate enough about it to put their hands in their pockets.
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Post by Churton Blue on Jul 2, 2019 21:27:25 GMT
Not sure why people are making this a Liverpool vs Chester issue. The reason I have little to no interest in KGV is because it’s primarily a community sports hub for Blacon which is great... for Blacon. I don’t even live in Chester never mind Blacon. On top of that I’ve bought season tickets & throughout the season I’ll spend money on food, drinks etc at the ground. There’s only so much you can keep asking our small fanbase to give & a sports hub is pretty low down on many people’s list of priorities. I don’t think anyone is against it per se, just not passionate enough about it to put their hands in their pockets. Not sure how you can read the excellent post by Stan Gandy and reach some of your conclusions. For my part I was just trying to demonstrate that if you want to enjoy watching live football then supporting Chester FC is a better option that the PL clubs. If you are right with your last comment then I fear the club has no future as the offers of finance from other outside sources like CWAC and the Football Foundation will never be on offer again if we can not do our bit on this occasion.
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Post by cfcforme on Jul 2, 2019 21:32:48 GMT
We have spent the last 7 or 8 years thinking short term and where has it got us ? Out of interest do you know how much it would cost a family to go to a Liverpool match even if they could get tickets ? We have to get football minded people who live in Chester interested in the club in whatever way it takes otherwise the club faces a bleak future. The problems we are now facing are nothing to do with thinking short term.
We were doing fine, got ourselves into national league and finished mid-table. Then we made some very poor decisions, re McCarthy under a very weak board. Handing McCarthy a 450k budget instead of showing him the door when he hadn't won a home game since Xmas was a spectacular own goal.
Taking a family of four to see Liverpool (based on cheapest season tickets) would appear to be 89 pounds per game.
Your post here only serves to prove the point you're trying to dispute. In the big scheme of things, you're citing minor things when KGV could lead to success and/or sustainability for decades to come... A lot of hard work to achieve it admittedly, but what ever comes easily that's worth having?
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Post by btb on Jul 2, 2019 21:37:34 GMT
I never understand short term thinking at all. I remember people saying scrap the academy to sign Ben Mills. Yes, people actually said that. A few years later we’re selling a player to a premiership club and the add ons arguably saved the club. And the same regarding this subject. The positives from having our own base within the city are numerous and now is probably the last chance we will ever get to set this up. Absolute madness that some wouldn’t see the positives towards this venture.
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Post by stangandy on Jul 2, 2019 21:49:07 GMT
Sealand ender - (please take this as illustrative as things can take longer)
We hope to be able to start work renovating the existing pavilion and two grass pitches very soon - weeks not months - and begin the process of building a base there. We will need to call on our supporters to give skills, labour and yes some money to bring the pavilion back into commission to provide changing rooms and a base. We also hope to get at least one pitch viable pretty soon.
The major work will follow but at least that gets us a foothold. I would hesitate to give a date on the opening of the 3g and new clubhouse etc but not years away with a following wind.
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Post by Harry Lime on Jul 2, 2019 22:00:19 GMT
Let's be realistic here. To raise £350k it will be down almost wholly to sponsorship or business investment. Any money raised by individuals will be a drop in the ocean. As someone else said, it's such a huge figure to raise that it seems almost pointless to hand over some money.
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Post by stangandy on Jul 2, 2019 22:07:06 GMT
As I've said in a previous post the project is scaleable. Every penny raised will improve what we can deliver. We are confident we have a viable plan - even with zero extra raised. But we are more ambitious than that. I am somewhat at a loss as to why people keep finding reasons to be negative about what is possibly one of the most positive off field things since our reformation.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 2, 2019 22:12:35 GMT
Chester fans. Habit. Lifetime.
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Post by agl on Jul 2, 2019 22:43:39 GMT
The problems we are now facing are nothing to do with thinking short term.
We were doing fine, got ourselves into national league and finished mid-table. Then we made some very poor decisions, re McCarthy under a very weak board. Handing McCarthy a 450k budget instead of showing him the door when he hadn't won a home game since Xmas was a spectacular own goal.
Taking a family of four to see Liverpool (based on cheapest season tickets) would appear to be 89 pounds per game.
Sorry but the facts say otherwise We were not ready for the National League in terms of infrastructure and were relegated in our first season and only reprieved by Hereford going bust. We fought relegation battles in every season bar one. The club/trust have been trying to get a project like this off the ground for over 9 years. A suitable venue and lack of finance have prevented it till now. The post from Stan Gandy illustrates all the positives of the scheme and it is a real shame that a significant minority of supporters want to talk it down. The waiting list for Liverpool season tickets was closed some time ago I understand 20,000 plus remain on it. I think you could add £20 or £30 to your figure if a family could get match day tickets. A lifetime watching and supporting Chester like mine in not affordable or practical if you choose Liverpool or Man Utd instead. At its best supporting a football club is like being part of an extended family and that is still possible at Chester whilst it is only open to the well off if they choose a PL club. Affordabls and yet our crowds are dwindling and we attract very few young people to games.TV is saturated with football, and that's how many chose to get their fix these days. The Harry Mac is almost deserted. It's not a case of talking down what is a very commendable and worthy project, but making sure we keep our eye on the ball in terms of the first team. It's self fulfilling...a winning team will bring the crowds in. A nice infrastructure and a team that's marooned in mid table of a regional league will not. Personally I'd rather be flogging raffle tickets to give the managers a few extra quid to get a decent keeper, or a quality midfielder. If we can't compete with Warrington on wages then we are in trouble.
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Post by Imperial on Jul 2, 2019 23:45:33 GMT
Not sure why people are making this a Liverpool vs Chester issue. The reason I have little to no interest in KGV is because it’s primarily a community sports hub for Blacon which is great... for Blacon. I don’t even live in Chester never mind Blacon. On top of that I’ve bought season tickets & throughout the season I’ll spend money on food, drinks etc at the ground. There’s only so much you can keep asking our small fanbase to give & a sports hub is pretty low down on many people’s list of priorities. I don’t think anyone is against it per se, just not passionate enough about it to put their hands in their pockets. Not sure how you can read the excellent post by Stan Gandy and reach some of your conclusions. For my part I was just trying to demonstrate that if you want to enjoy watching live football then supporting Chester FC is a better option that the PL clubs. If you are right with your last comment then I fear the club has no future as the offers of finance from other outside sources like CWAC and the Football Foundation will never be on offer again if we can not do our bit on this occasion. I think the amount raised shows my conclusions to be fairly solid. I completely agree of course, my point was that KGV is entirely irrelevant to that issue. It simply is not going to increase attendances at the Deva in any way. The offers are there because it’s a community sports hub. It benefits the community far, far more than the football club. To reiterate, I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, I’m saying that the cost/benefit ratio for a club our size is dubious IMO.
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Post by agl on Jul 3, 2019 5:45:28 GMT
The problems we are now facing are nothing to do with thinking short term.
We were doing fine, got ourselves into national league and finished mid-table. Then we made some very poor decisions, re McCarthy under a very weak board. Handing McCarthy a 450k budget instead of showing him the door when he hadn't won a home game since Xmas was a spectacular own goal.
Taking a family of four to see Liverpool (based on cheapest season tickets) would appear to be 89 pounds per game.
Your post here only serves to prove the point you're trying to dispute. In the big scheme of things, you're citing minor things when KGV could lead to success and/or sustainability for decades to come... A lot of hard work to achieve it admittedly, but what ever comes easily that's worth having? I don't follow your argument. I'm saying the problems were largely due to poor decision making and management. Having a sports hub won't have any impact on appointing a crap manager, or electing a board that is out of its depth. Anyway, I don't oppose this project, just want to be sure that it doesn't become a millstone and make the point that I am more focused on getting out of our current league before the support becomes unsustainable. It's a debate worth having surely? We are already playing a friendly game which is diverting potential income away from the day to day running of the club/ squad wages so you must be able to see a potential conflict? Of course I see the long term benefits but I worry we may not be around long term to enjoy them. We do have a minority of fans who are so obsessed with being a community club that they don't care if we are playing in the West Cheshire league. It's sad but the vast majority of money coming in has to go on player wages, even with a successful youth set up.
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Post by Moltisanti on Jul 3, 2019 6:22:33 GMT
Not sure why people are making this a Liverpool vs Chester issue. The reason I have little to no interest in KGV is because it’s primarily a community sports hub for Blacon which is great... for Blacon. I don’t even live in Chester never mind Blacon. On top of that I’ve bought season tickets & throughout the season I’ll spend money on food, drinks etc at the ground. There’s only so much you can keep asking our small fanbase to give & a sports hub is pretty low down on many people’s list of priorities. I don’t think anyone is against it per se, just not passionate enough about it to put their hands in their pockets. Spot on this
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Post by Churton Blue on Jul 3, 2019 8:23:49 GMT
The two richest owners of National League clubs, David Haythornthwaite and Irving Weaver, have invested in similar schemes at AFC Fylde and Harrogate Town. In the case of Harrogate it takes the form of a 3g on the club pitch rather than a stand alone project. These two men are worth over a quarter of a billion each but still understand the importance and value of such schemes to the futures of their clubs.
Accrington Stanley who have one of the few sensible private owners in the EFL in Andy Holt are in the process of developing a very similar project.
The detractors of the KGV have to consider why these three men and the Chester FC fans who support the idea are wrong and they are right.
Simlpy putting money in the pockets of over the hill or crocked footballers is the road to disaster IMO.
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Post by utb on Jul 3, 2019 8:51:50 GMT
If this was being built with the primary focus of being the training ground of the first team, with the community able to rent out the facilities when not occupied by the first team, then I suspect the figure raised would be much higher.
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Post by Imperial on Jul 3, 2019 9:46:10 GMT
The two richest owners of National League clubs, David Haythornthwaite and Irving Weaver, have invested in similar schemes at AFC Fylde and Harrogate Town. In the case of Harrogate it takes the form of a 3g on the club pitch rather than a stand alone project. These two men are worth over a quarter of a billion each but still understand the importance and value of such schemes to the futures of their clubs. Accrington Stanley who have one of the few sensible private owners in the EFL in Andy Holt are in the process of developing a very similar project. The detractors of the KGV have to consider why these three men and the Chester FC fans who support the idea are wrong and they are right. Simlpy putting money in the pockets of over the hill or crocked footballers is the road to disaster IMO. You misunderstand my argument, I’m NOT advocating against KGV. I completely agree that it’s beneficial, it’s just that I don’t think it’s even feasible to raise the money from the fan base & even if it was, I think there are better ways the money could be spent that would benefit the club more than Blacon. If we had a billionaire owner then of course everyone would be 100% behind it but we haven’t & our resources are extremely finite & I don’t see this as benefiting the club long term in terms of attendances income significantly enough to be worth the huge outlay.
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Post by Churton Blue on Jul 3, 2019 9:50:44 GMT
If this was being built with the primary focus of being the training ground of the first team, with the community able to rent out the facilities when not occupied by the first team, then I suspect the figure raised would be much higher. I am sure you are right. I know for certain that the club did persue that idea for a number of years but realised that there was zero chance of it happening so the Community Trust took up the baton. It has to be the other way around as the club would need to raise all the money itself plus buy the land to put it on. This would cost at least £3 or £4 million even if a suitable site could be found.
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Post by rcb on Jul 3, 2019 9:53:35 GMT
The two richest owners of National League clubs, David Haythornthwaite and Irving Weaver, have invested in similar schemes at AFC Fylde and Harrogate Town. In the case of Harrogate it takes the form of a 3g on the club pitch rather than a stand alone project. These two men are worth over a quarter of a billion each but still understand the importance and value of such schemes to the futures of their clubs. Accrington Stanley who have one of the few sensible private owners in the EFL in Andy Holt are in the process of developing a very similar project. The detractors of the KGV have to consider why these three men and the Chester FC fans who support the idea are wrong and they are right. Simlpy putting money in the pockets of over the hill or crocked footballers is the road to disaster IMO. You misunderstand my argument, I’m NOT advocating against KGV. I completely agree that it’s beneficial, it’s just that I don’t think it’s even feasible to raise the money from the fan base & even if it was, I think there are better ways the money could be spent that would benefit the club more than Blacon. If we had a billionaire owner then of course everyone would be 100% behind it but we haven’t & our resources are extremely finite & I don’t see this as benefiting the club long term in terms of attendances income significantly enough to be worth the huge outlay. Agreed. Until we get out of this league there is not a realistic future. Longer term planning has its place, but not to the detriment of the shorter term. Nobody cares about how well groomed the regimental goat is when they’re up to their neck in mud, with bullets flying overhead. Why Churton Blue feels a comparison with teams with sugar daddies is relevant is beyond me.
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