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Post by rcb on Aug 27, 2019 22:36:35 GMT
So Bury and Bolton were both set the same ultimatum by the EFL, and both failed to meet the deadline this evening. Bury are expelled from the league tonight and Bolton have another fortnight. How the hell does that work?
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Post by cheshireblue on Aug 27, 2019 22:39:09 GMT
Bolton will be gone by then.
Their own administrators have already said that if no takeover was imminent, they would begin the process of winding the club up - 14 days is the notice a club must give the league.
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Post by MPW on Aug 27, 2019 23:03:27 GMT
Anyone know what the situation is regarding Gigg Lane?
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Post by trev on Aug 27, 2019 23:11:25 GMT
Is liquidation now inevitable for Bury given its financial condition and no income? The ground ownership appears critical but even that doesnt seem to be clear.
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Post by Forever Blue on Aug 28, 2019 0:23:55 GMT
So Bury and Bolton were both set the same ultimatum by the EFL, and both failed to meet the deadline this evening. Bury are expelled from the league tonight and Bolton have another fortnight. How the hell does that work? I know it is crazy isn't it Yet Bolton just seem to take the piss with the EFL, to me long gone are the days when football was a fair game, the EFL should be ashamed of themselves they just allow any idiots to buy clubs and destroy them but its one rule for one and one rule for another, as we know to well the EFL are a joke. Sad night for the bury fans but they will be better off for it in the long run, yes it will come with it's ups and downs but own your own club as you the fans care about it.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Aug 28, 2019 5:45:57 GMT
They still exist, they just don’t have a league to play in. How long before they do cease to exist though? It was a month between expulsion and liquidation for us.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Aug 28, 2019 6:47:07 GMT
Although we've had some major bumps along the way, Bury fans can take a lot of heart if they examine what we've done over the last decade.
The current club is debt ridden and beyond saving. Let it go, start again, own it yourselves and enjoy the ride.
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Post by eyeswideopen on Aug 28, 2019 6:50:03 GMT
Its not all bleak for Bury fans, if the ground is not privately owned they could go down the same model as ourselves further down the pyramid and still have their ground. If it is privately owned, then can they call in a favour and maybe a ground share with FCUM for a couple of seasons? Still going down the same road as ourselves, dont get me wrong it hurts, its painful, and not playing in the football league for the foreseeable future is absolutely soul destroying, but what keeps you going is knowing that your own clubs destiny lies in your own hands.
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Post by 1967blue Chester Lads on Aug 28, 2019 7:27:43 GMT
Its not all bleak for Bury fans, if the ground is not privately owned they could go down the same model as ourselves further down the pyramid and still have their ground. If it is privately owned, then can they call in a favour and maybe a ground share with FCUM for a couple of seasons? Still going down the same road as ourselves, dont get me wrong it hurts, its painful, and not playing in the football league for the foreseeable future is absolutely soul destroying, but what keeps you going is knowing that your own clubs destiny lies in your own hands. That's the problem. Your comment clubs destiny lies in your own hands is not right. It lies in Stuart Murphy's hands and if it wasn't for him we probably wouldn't be here again. It's pathetic that people on hear don't wake up and realise it's not us it's someone else. Without Mr Murphy we'd be buried He's our saviour as we couldn't and didn't do it on our own.
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Post by bluejay on Aug 28, 2019 7:30:21 GMT
I know this is selfish but is anyone else worried that our managers would be a perfect fit for a phoenix bury next season?
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Aug 28, 2019 7:33:24 GMT
Its not all bleak for Bury fans, if the ground is not privately owned they could go down the same model as ourselves further down the pyramid and still have their ground. If it is privately owned, then can they call in a favour and maybe a ground share with FCUM for a couple of seasons? Still going down the same road as ourselves, dont get me wrong it hurts, its painful, and not playing in the football league for the foreseeable future is absolutely soul destroying, but what keeps you going is knowing that your own clubs destiny lies in your own hands. That's the problem. Your comment clubs destiny lies in your own hands is not right. It lies in Stuart Murphy's hands and if it wasn't for him we probably wouldn't be here again. It's pathetic that people on hear don't wake up and realise it's not us it's someone else. Without Mr Murphy we'd be buried He's our saviour as we couldn't and didn't do it on our own. Not true. Without Mr Murphy we’d just have a smaller playing budget, is all.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Aug 28, 2019 7:34:48 GMT
I know this is selfish but is anyone else worried that our managers would be a perfect fit for a phoenix bury next season? I'm not mate. Surely the highest they can hope to start is step 4 of the non-league pyramid - although more likely step 5 or 6. I see no reason why the duo would wish to drop that low.
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Post by bluejay on Aug 28, 2019 7:45:15 GMT
Its not all bleak for Bury fans, if the ground is not privately owned they could go down the same model as ourselves further down the pyramid and still have their ground. If it is privately owned, then can they call in a favour and maybe a ground share with FCUM for a couple of seasons? Still going down the same road as ourselves, dont get me wrong it hurts, its painful, and not playing in the football league for the foreseeable future is absolutely soul destroying, but what keeps you going is knowing that your own clubs destiny lies in your own hands. That's the problem. Your comment clubs destiny lies in your own hands is not right. It lies in Stuart Murphy's hands and if it wasn't for him we probably wouldn't be here again. It's pathetic that people on hear don't wake up and realise it's not us it's someone else. Without Mr Murphy we'd be buried He's our saviour as we couldn't and didn't do it on our own. No he's not. Strange post.
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Post by 1967blue Chester Lads on Aug 28, 2019 7:47:24 GMT
That's the problem. Your comment clubs destiny lies in your own hands is not right. It lies in Stuart Murphy's hands and if it wasn't for him we probably wouldn't be here again. It's pathetic that people on hear don't wake up and realise it's not us it's someone else. Without Mr Murphy we'd be buried He's our saviour as we couldn't and didn't do it on our own. No he's not. Strange post. How is it strange?
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Post by 1967blue Chester Lads on Aug 28, 2019 7:49:23 GMT
That's the problem. Your comment clubs destiny lies in your own hands is not right. It lies in Stuart Murphy's hands and if it wasn't for him we probably wouldn't be here again. It's pathetic that people on hear don't wake up and realise it's not us it's someone else. Without Mr Murphy we'd be buried He's our saviour as we couldn't and didn't do it on our own. Not true. Without Mr Murphy we’d just have a smaller playing budget, is all. Do some homework and you'll find out it's nothing to do with a smaller playing budget
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Post by thetheremin on Aug 28, 2019 8:13:10 GMT
No he's not. Strange post. How is it strange? I’ll be more blunt. It’s not strange. It’s simply not true.
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Post by thetheremin on Aug 28, 2019 8:14:37 GMT
I know this is selfish but is anyone else worried that our managers would be a perfect fit for a phoenix bury next season? I'm not mate. Surely the highest they can hope to start is step 4 of the non-league pyramid - although more likely step 5 or 6. I see no reason why the duo would wish to drop that low. It’s step 6 now, 5 at a push. We were one of the last clubs to have the benefit of parachuting in at step 4
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Post by thestanchion on Aug 28, 2019 8:24:53 GMT
Think I read that the previous owner Stewart Day set up a company called Bury Leisure who own Gigg Lane though that was heavily mortgaged. Dale never got round to sorting that out.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 8:38:31 GMT
Administrations are now relatively common, expulsions/liquidations may well become a frequent occurrence and yet again the loyal fans (not forgetting player's and staff livelihoods) are at the bottom of the pile when a club goes under.
Of course, unscrupulous/incompetent/greedy/dodgy (*delete as appropriate) owners have to carry the bulk of the blame.
But the EFL, supposedly the overseers and guardians of the game, have to take their heads out of the sand and realise that they and their rules/regulations do little to minimise the risk of these shysters gaining control of clubs such as Bury and others (us included) and then mismanaging them into oblivion.
No doubt we'll get the usual bland statements from the EFL eg "we worked tirelessly", "we'll learn from this" etc etc but the whole system needs to be revamped for modern age.
Unfortunately, this requires real action something which is an anathema to the EFL.
Which is why, I fear, that we'll see more such events in the future.
Sad day for Bury but I'm sure that they'll bounce back in some form or other.
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Post by Churton Blue on Aug 28, 2019 8:43:47 GMT
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Post by stangandy on Aug 28, 2019 9:15:01 GMT
Really informative article Mike. No wonder no-one could buy it.
Bury fans will need some time just to come to terms with it but thinking back, the day we were wound up was the day when we actually had the chance to take control instead of standing watching others make all the decisions about our club.
10 things I can think of that they should do would be:
1) Imperative that they establish ONE group to represent the club (sounds like it might be Forever Bury) - CFU for us was an essential stage that brought four fans groups together who had splintered to a degree under the pressure of mad and bad ownership. 2) Get the ground - will be harder for them than us. But it would seem to me that they need to lobby the Council HARD to take ownership of it (Forever Bury's stance of saying that will establish a team but only when they get the ground might be a negotiating ploy to pressure the council). 3) Apply NOW to the FA to be the formal successor Club 4) Repel all attempts from sugar daddies and saviours who will want to ride to the rescue - let them join the fans group but NOT at the expense of ownership (there will be many who will promise the earth - Terry Smith!) - at this stage you need total unity and common purpose. 5) Quickly set up a means for other fans to donate - thousands will. 6) A whole season is a long way to go without football (we only had a two or three months and it was terrible even though it was desperate as it was) - think of ways to keep people together. - Stunts, meetings, lobbies etc and football related things - former players matches.... 7) Undertake a full influencing strategy with football authorities, other clubs, non league etc - they will need their support 8) Take advice from Supporter Groups (I am sure they already are) but also us, FC United, AFC etc 9) Make sure your internal communications are red hot - we were pretty good at this at the start - people will have a huge thirst for information and it is easy to let it drift a bit 10) It is not too early to begin to plan and set out a vision for the new club - give people confidence, stories and visuals of what it will be like - it could be even better....
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Post by jimianto on Aug 28, 2019 9:30:46 GMT
Really informative article Mike. No wonder no-one could buy it. Bury fans will need some time just to come to terms with it but thinking back, the day we were wound up was the day when we actually had the chance to take control instead of standing watching others make all the decisions about our club. 10 things I can think of that they should do would be: 1) Imperative that they establish ONE group to represent the club (sounds like it might be Forever Bury) - CFU for us was an essential stage that brought four fans groups together who had splintered to a degree under the pressure of mad and bad ownership. 2) Get the ground - will be harder for them than us. But it would seem to me that they need to lobby the Council HARD to take ownership of it (Forever Bury's stance of saying that will establish a team but only when they get the ground might be a negotiating ploy to pressure the council). 3) Apply NOW to the FA to be the formal successor Club 4) Repel all attempts from sugar daddies and saviours who will want to ride to the rescue - let them join the fans group but NOT at the expense of ownership (there will be many who will promise the earth - Terry Smith!) - at this stage you need total unity and common purpose. 5) Quickly set up a means for other fans to donate - thousands will. 6) A whole season is a long way to go without football (we only had a two or three months and it was terrible even though it was desperate as it was) - think of ways to keep people together. - Stunts, meetings, lobbies etc and football related things - former players matches.... 7) Undertake a full influencing strategy with football authorities, other clubs, non league etc - they will need their support 8) Take advice from Supporter Groups (I am sure they already are) but also us, FC United, AFC etc 9) Make sure your internal communications are red hot - we were pretty good at this at the start - people will have a huge thirst for information and it is easy to let it drift a bit 10) It is not too early to begin to plan and set out a vision for the new club - give people confidence, stories and visuals of what it will be like - it could be even better.... Surely it will be impossible to get the ground. It will need to be sold to pay back investors as part of the inevitable administration process.
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Post by jb on Aug 28, 2019 9:38:59 GMT
Bury’s problems seem to be down to one man, Steve Dale, and several legitimate buyers have had bids rejected by Dale. On the other hand, Bolton have been taking the piss for several years now, and yet he EFL seem determined to get rid of Bury while favouring Bolton. It all started for Bury when that student property developer rode into town with big promises etc. So what has Steve Dale actually got out of this? Will it be worth all of the repercussions that he is likely to receive?
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Post by Lobster on Aug 28, 2019 9:46:12 GMT
Its not all bleak for Bury fans, if the ground is not privately owned they could go down the same model as ourselves further down the pyramid and still have their ground. If it is privately owned, then can they call in a favour and maybe a ground share with FCUM for a couple of seasons? Still going down the same road as ourselves, dont get me wrong it hurts, its painful, and not playing in the football league for the foreseeable future is absolutely soul destroying, but what keeps you going is knowing that your own clubs destiny lies in your own hands. That's the problem. Your comment clubs destiny lies in your own hands is not right. It lies in Stuart Murphy's hands and if it wasn't for him we probably wouldn't be here again. It's pathetic that people on hear don't wake up and realise it's not us it's someone else. Without Mr Murphy we'd be buried He's our saviour as we couldn't and didn't do it on our own. Even if that's true, Stuart Murphy's investment is PART of supporter ownership, not detached from it. He is a supporter, he just happens to be quite a wealthy one. We have rich fans and poor fans, and we're no different to any other club in that respect. A supporter ownership model allows everyone to put in as much money and time as they can.
I can't speak for Murphy, but have you considered that perhaps it's BECAUSE we're fan-owned that he's putting this money in? When Vaughan was here, his million pounds could probably have kept the club ticking along a bit longer, but being a businessman he probably knew not to touch it with a barge pole. It comes across to me that he likes the way we're trying to do things and wants to help.
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Post by stangandy on Aug 28, 2019 9:47:04 GMT
Yes I think it will be very difficult - their best option might be to try to get the council to buy it. Councils are strapped these days but sometimes have more capital than revenue so it might be feasible. Then they can lease from the council....
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Post by cfcforme on Aug 28, 2019 9:47:19 GMT
Not true. Without Mr Murphy we’d just have a smaller playing budget, is all. Do some homework and you'll find out it's nothing to do with a smaller playing budget Why not share this non-existent information you have seen, if it really exists? Because it doesn't! I await being proven wrong.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Aug 28, 2019 10:45:58 GMT
The interest of £1,500 per day on Dale's loans is a staggering amount. No wonder nobody would touch it.
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Post by thestanchion on Aug 28, 2019 11:24:45 GMT
The interest of £1,500 per day on Dale's loans is a staggering amount. No wonder nobody would touch it. [br Thanks for that link CB. Very interesting . What a mess. Any phoenix club surely can't possibly waste time and money trying to save the ground.
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Post by sealandender1 on Aug 28, 2019 11:47:47 GMT
The interest of £1,500 per day on Dale's loans is a staggering amount. No wonder nobody would touch it. [br Thanks for that link CB. Very interesting . What a mess. Any phoenix club surely can't possibly waste time and money trying to save the ground. David Conn’s article for The Guardian is quite frightening. Gigg Lane is mortgaged with Capital Buildings Finance Solutions based in CROSBY with sole owner Paul Dalton. CBFS then mortgaged again with a company in MALTA, who in turn are being handled by eight other companies in British Virgin Islands! I smell a big rat.
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Post by rcb on Aug 28, 2019 12:40:58 GMT
Didn’t Vaughan have links to Malta?
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