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Post by dmcnally on Jul 22, 2020 13:37:28 GMT
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Post by Imperial on Jul 22, 2020 13:38:34 GMT
Surprised there hasn't been much mention of Noble for that midfield role, appreciate he's not the biggest but I'd definitely like to see him get more game time next season. Far chance of that, he’s been released and signed for Loughborough. Well that'd be why then. I wasn't aware. What a shame, another talented young player gone.
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Post by weareblues on Jul 22, 2020 13:45:11 GMT
Surprised there hasn't been much mention of Noble for that midfield role, appreciate he's not the biggest but I'd definitely like to see him get more game time next season. Far chance of that, he’s been released and signed for Loughborough. Wasn’t released he left so he could go to uni
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 22, 2020 13:52:06 GMT
Far chance of that, he’s been released and signed for Loughborough. Well that'd be why then. I wasn't aware. What a shame, another talented young player gone. I think if we don’t go up next season we need to rethink the model and try to be the “Crewe of non league” - we’ve got the Academy structure in place already. Noble and Murray were the absolute standouts of the recent batch of Academy graduates - what chance do the others have? LMH and Goodwin won’t be anywhere near the first team - we’ve got four forwards ahead of them and we need to replace Asante’s goals. The biggest fear is that Calum won’t be holding both of his roles for long and at some point will have to go all in at Runcorn - he’s the draw for us, selling the club to parents. It’ll be tough once he’s gone. We’ve got the opportunity now with the Academy set up we have to go the Crewe way but while the current managers are here there seems to be little hope for Academy lads sadly, apart from the odd game (Cheshire Senior Cup) or to plug in gaps. They aren't willing to sacrifice the limited budget but in a way you can’t blame them as they want success and obviously feel experienced heads and younger players whom have had first team football elsewhere are the way to go. I get that. We all want the same success but we could end up looking back on this as a missed opportunity in years to come if we are still plugging away between National League and NLN with a shell of an Academy we once had.
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Post by Imperial on Jul 22, 2020 13:58:13 GMT
Well that'd be why then. I wasn't aware. What a shame, another talented young player gone. I think if we don’t go up next season we need to rethink the model and try to be the “Crewe of non league” - we’ve got the Academy structure in place already. Noble and Murray were the absolute standouts of the recent batch of Academy graduates - what chance do the others have? LMH and Goodwin won’t be anywhere near the first team - we’ve got four forwards ahead of them and we need to replace Asante’s goals. The biggest fear is that Calum won’t be holding both of his roles for long and at some point will have to go all in at Runcorn - he’s the draw for us, selling the club to parents. It’ll be tough once he’s gone. We’ve got the opportunity now with the Academy set up we have to go the Crewe way but while the current managers are here there seems to be little hope for Academy lads sadly, apart from the odd game (Cheshire Senior Cup) or to plug in gaps. They aren't willing to sacrifice the limited budget but in a way you can’t blame them as they want success and obviously feel experienced heads and younger players whom have had first team football elsewhere are the way to go. I get that. We all want the same success but we could end up looking back on this as a missed opportunity in years to come if we are still plugging away between National League and NLN with a shell of an Academy we once had. I think it's a great idea if a bit ambitious, CM has said over & over how they've done great work on a tiny budget, I don't think we can ever hope to emulate a team like Crewe unfortunately. I've seen the same discussion around the managers & the young lads on Twitter & Jonno clearly feels it's an unfair accusation but the likes of Murray, Thomson & Noble haven't been given enough game time for me. Another one that's gone is Harry Molyneux who looked extremely talented when I've seen him.
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Post by agl on Jul 22, 2020 14:21:11 GMT
Imo the problem is that there is no bridge between the academy and the first team. These kids might look good in youth games but they're not strong enough to play week in week out at first team level. The only option is to send them out on loan, to a lower level and hope they cope with the physicality. It's a real issue because if the best of the academy players aren't coming through to be regular first team players at regional level it does beg the question...what's the point? Arguably the only successes have been Sam Hughes, Tom Crawford, James Jones and Matty Waters in ten years. Tom Peers has done OK elsewhere but didn't show much for us, so there's nothing so far to suggest releasing these lads is a mistake. I tend to reject the argument that they're not given a chance by the managers, who must be well aware of their ability and limitations. We must also be losing out to the likes of Crewe and Shrewsbury, who can offer the best kids a league set up and the carrot of professional football, whereas all we can offer is part time if they make it. Of course the youth system is an asset for the club in terms of the community, getting the kids and their parents connected to the club but would also be interested to know how many become long term fans once they/ their kids leave us? Would also be interested to know what is the cost of the youth system over the decade since reformation taking into account sponsorship, transfer fees received etc. When you see league clubs scrapoing youth set ups it does leave you scratching your head a bit, and wondering whether we might be better off investing in scouting players from leagues below and using money to hoover a few up who look promising.
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Post by weareblues on Jul 22, 2020 14:22:22 GMT
Well that'd be why then. I wasn't aware. What a shame, another talented young player gone. I think if we don’t go up next season we need to rethink the model and try to be the “Crewe of non league” - we’ve got the Academy structure in place already. Noble and Murray were the absolute standouts of the recent batch of Academy graduates - what chance do the others have? LMH and Goodwin won’t be anywhere near the first team - we’ve got four forwards ahead of them and we need to replace Asante’s goals. The biggest fear is that Calum won’t be holding both of his roles for long and at some point will have to go all in at Runcorn - he’s the draw for us, selling the club to parents. It’ll be tough once he’s gone. We’ve got the opportunity now with the Academy set up we have to go the Crewe way but while the current managers are here there seems to be little hope for Academy lads sadly, apart from the odd game (Cheshire Senior Cup) or to plug in gaps. They aren't willing to sacrifice the limited budget but in a way you can’t blame them as they want success and obviously feel experienced heads and younger players whom have had first team football elsewhere are the way to go. I get that. We all want the same success but we could end up looking back on this as a missed opportunity in years to come if we are still plugging away between National League and NLN with a shell of an Academy we once had. hg Little hope for the academy lads ?? Bern and Jonno have given more academy lads game time then any other manager at this club has ... You got shut down about this on twitter the other day by jonno
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 22, 2020 14:23:36 GMT
There’s never been a bridge between the Academy and the first team, we’ve still produced players, given them consistent runs of games and sold them on.
As I’ve said I don’t overly blame the managers, they want promotion and success and have a limited budget. I just think if we are still in this league at the end of next season we should have a conversation concerning the model of the club on the pitch.
Don’t think anybody was “shut down” - it was a proper conversation. None of the kids have had a consistent run of chances to prove themselves whereas more experienced players who aren’t performing continue to get in the side, I stand by that and it comes back to the want for success and promotion with a limited budget.
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Post by agl on Jul 22, 2020 14:34:21 GMT
There’s never been a bridge between the Academy and the first team, we’ve still produced players and sold them on. As I’ve said I don’t overly blame the managers, they want promotion and success and have a limited budget. I just think if we are still in this league at the end of next season we should have a conversation concerning the model of the club on the pitch. When you say there's never been a bridge, in the old days we used to run a reserve team. I doubt that is financially viable now. But to my knowledge in the last ten years we have only received fees for three youth team players. Perhaps the deal for Sam Hughes alone justifies the existence of the youth set up but fear he was a one off. Our second biggest fee was probably Sarcevic who didn't come through our youth system More worrying than the lack of fees is why we aren't bringing players through to be first team regulars at sixth tier level.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 22, 2020 14:41:13 GMT
There’s never been a bridge between the Academy and the first team, we’ve still produced players and sold them on. As I’ve said I don’t overly blame the managers, they want promotion and success and have a limited budget. I just think if we are still in this league at the end of next season we should have a conversation concerning the model of the club on the pitch. When you say there's never been a bridge, in the old days we used to run a reserve team. I doubt that is financially viable now. But to my knowledge in the last ten years we have only received fees for three youth team players. Perhaps the deal for Sam Hughes alone justifies the existence of the youth set up but fear he was a one off. our second biggest fee was probably Sarcevuc, who didn't come through our youth system More worrying than the lack of fees is why we aren't bringing players through to be first team regulars at sixth tier level. To answer your question what chances are they getting? As above, they aren’t being given a solid run of games to prove themselves. Last summer we had five kids sign their first first-team contracts - Cottrell, Crilly, Hayes, Macready, Molyneux. What’s happened to them? Loads before them, then Goodwin most recently. They are coming through, they just aren’t seen as ready/good enough to play for our first team. They’re loaned out for their development which obviously has to happen for them to be playing men’s football, I understand that. But after the year, they’re gone. Perhaps we should reassess who we loan these kids out to because it obviously isn’t working.
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Post by agl on Jul 22, 2020 14:56:27 GMT
When you say there's never been a bridge, in the old days we used to run a reserve team. I doubt that is financially viable now. But to my knowledge in the last ten years we have only received fees for three youth team players. Perhaps the deal for Sam Hughes alone justifies the existence of the youth set up but fear he was a one off. our second biggest fee was probably Sarcevuc, who didn't come through our youth system More worrying than the lack of fees is why we aren't bringing players through to be first team regulars at sixth tier level. To answer your question what chances are they getting? As above, they aren’t being given a solid run of games to prove themselves. Last summer we had five kids sign their first first-team contracts - Cottrell, Crilly, Hayes, Macready, Molyneux. What’s happened to them? Loads before them, then Goodwin most recently. They are coming through, they just aren’t seen as ready/good enough to play for our first team. They’re loaned out for their development which obviously has to happen for them to be playing men’s football, I understand that. But after the year, they’re gone. Perhaps we should reassess who we loan these kids out to because it obviously isn’t working. The answer, I would suggest, is that they aren't good enough. The managers must see them in training so why wouldn't they play them otherwise? They must be getting a decent run when they are loaned out, so you'd think they would stand out at a lower level and continue their development. That's obviously not been the case recently. Possibly there's an issue with strength work...when you look at our league and the one above they are, on the whole, being dominated by big teams.
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Post by Si on Jul 22, 2020 15:13:51 GMT
The bridge in the gap needs to be in the form of loan spells. Affiliate clubs like Runcorn or Airbus who will take some of the lads and give them game time against men. They come back to us to play the Cheshire Cup games etc. The simple case is we have better players in those positions, although I think we'd have all liked to have seen Noble play ahead Burton at times, and Murray ahead of Elton. Otherwise I can't make an argument for any of the other lads to be getting games ahead of those players in the first team, certainly not at this stage of the development. Its not an issue exclusive to us, how many clubs are bringing through youth players year after year, whatever the level? Does anyone really think that Lampard would have been playing Mount, Abraham, Loftus Cheek, Hudson-Odoi, James etc if they weren't under the transfer embargo? Kids tend to be given a go in troubling times when first team is struggling, e.g. Bignot era, as nothing else has worked so they deserve the chance. We've been in a title/play off race all season, so I can understand the managers being wary about throwing kids in.
Seen another post further up questioning the point of it if we can't get lads into a 6th tier team. Bringing players through into the first team and them getting regular games is the best case scenario, but not many clubs achieve that. The odd ones come through, so I think the pathway is that if they impress at youth level then they will be training with the first team squad to see how they develop - that's still a damn good opportunity. Also, I'm sure Callum and the coaches work with these lads to actually develop them as human beings, which is hugely valuable for them whilst they are growing up. Some of those lads who have been released have memories to cherish forever, winning plenty of trophies, playing in front of crowds most lads their age can only dream of. Whilst our club has had troubles times in recent years, great pride has been taken in the youth team that has galvanised the club during some really low times. We are a community club, and as part of that I feel we are obliged to provide a youth setup where parents can feel that their kids can learn from fantastic young coaches like Callum and mature into adults, and hopefully its a pathway into football at whatever level their talent is judged at. Chester FC is about more than just the first team, it should be an asset for the local community.
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Post by agl on Jul 22, 2020 16:06:09 GMT
The bridge in the gap needs to be in the form of loan spells. Affiliate clubs like Runcorn or Airbus who will take some of the lads and give them game time against men. They come back to us to play the Cheshire Cup games etc. The simple case is we have better players in those positions, although I think we'd have all liked to have seen Noble play ahead Burton at times, and Murray ahead of Elton. Otherwise I can't make an argument for any of the other lads to be getting games ahead of those players in the first team, certainly not at this stage of the development. Its not an issue exclusive to us, how many clubs are bringing through youth players year after year, whatever the level? Does anyone really think that Lampard would have been playing Mount, Abraham, Loftus Cheek, Hudson-Odoi, James etc if they weren't under the transfer embargo? Kids tend to be given a go in troubling times when first team is struggling, e.g. Bignot era, as nothing else has worked so they deserve the chance. We've been in a title/play off race all season, so I can understand the managers being wary about throwing kids in. Seen another post further up questioning the point of it if we can't get lads into a 6th tier team. Bringing players through into the first team and them getting regular games is the best case scenario, but not many clubs achieve that. The odd ones come through, so I think the pathway is that if they impress at youth level then they will be training with the first team squad to see how they develop - that's still a damn good opportunity. Also, I'm sure Callum and the coaches work with these lads to actually develop them as human beings, which is hugely valuable for them whilst they are growing up. Some of those lads who have been released have memories to cherish forever, winning plenty of trophies, playing in front of crowds most lads their age can only dream of. Whilst our club has had troubles times in recent years, great pride has been taken in the youth team that has galvanised the club during some really low times. We are a community club, and as part of that I feel we are obliged to provide a youth setup where parents can feel that their kids can learn from fantastic young coaches like Callum and mature into adults, and hopefully its a pathway into football at whatever level their talent is judged at. Chester FC is about more than just the first team, it should be an asset for the local community. I posted the what's the point comment, as much to get the debate going as anything. I totally get the community asset issue, which you put very eloquently, but I will always maintain that the priority of the youth set up should be to produce first team players (who are also decent human beings). Otherwise we might as well run a youth club. If we are simply a conveyor belt producing well rounded individuals for clubs down the pyramid it doesn't sit right with me. Maybe I'm expecting too much but the return over the ten years since we reformed, given all the success achieved on the pitch by the youth team, doesn't seem that great. Or is that just the norm for our level?
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Post by ilshifomd on Jul 23, 2020 1:06:19 GMT
Thought Waring did ok against Alty yesterday - won most of his headers and held up the ball well. You'd want him in the squad as an option for the long/high balls. Think we need to find a way of getting Morgan into the back 4 (whilst teaching him how not to get sent off - he rose to the bait yesterday and followed through on a tackle but thankfully the ref didn't see it) - a bit of youth, pace and [measured] aggression would be welcome I think. Think James Jones is heading elsewhere - according to the commentary yesterday - shame as he was good in the centre alongside Livesey/Grand. If one/both of them go, I would like to see him stay. Matty Waters' cross for goal 2 yesterday was sublime - he's a keeper and we need to start him more often - the competition will hopefully give JJ the kick to start performing as well - something he's not done yet imho I'd want Brad Jackson on the list - didn't shine yesterday but on the day with all cylinders firing, he's unplayable at this level. Would also want Joel Taylor on the list - not the best right back - but pushing forward is a real threat - as he showed a couple of times yesterday We need to beef up central midfield - both in physicality and creativeness - I'd keep one of Roberts & Stopforth as squad players but for me, Burton must go. If you're referring to when he said something to the effect of "James Jones has been offered a contract but has declined", I believe he was referring to Altrincham's James Jones, not ours. On that note, he could be someone worth looking at. Only 23 and has made 27(2) appearances this season so he could bridge that age gap between Grand&Livesey and "our" Jones, hitting a sweet spot between youth/mobility and relative reliability/experience.
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Post by Harry Lime on Jul 23, 2020 7:00:19 GMT
Thought Waring did ok against Alty yesterday - won most of his headers and held up the ball well. You'd want him in the squad as an option for the long/high balls. Think we need to find a way of getting Morgan into the back 4 (whilst teaching him how not to get sent off - he rose to the bait yesterday and followed through on a tackle but thankfully the ref didn't see it) - a bit of youth, pace and [measured] aggression would be welcome I think. Think James Jones is heading elsewhere - according to the commentary yesterday - shame as he was good in the centre alongside Livesey/Grand. If one/both of them go, I would like to see him stay. Matty Waters' cross for goal 2 yesterday was sublime - he's a keeper and we need to start him more often - the competition will hopefully give JJ the kick to start performing as well - something he's not done yet imho I'd want Brad Jackson on the list - didn't shine yesterday but on the day with all cylinders firing, he's unplayable at this level. Would also want Joel Taylor on the list - not the best right back - but pushing forward is a real threat - as he showed a couple of times yesterday We need to beef up central midfield - both in physicality and creativeness - I'd keep one of Roberts & Stopforth as squad players but for me, Burton must go. If you're referring to when he said something to the effect of "James Jones has been offered a contract but has declined", I believe he was referring to Altrincham's James Jones, not ours. On that note, he could be someone worth looking at. Only 23 and has made 27(2) appearances this season so he could bridge that age gap between Grand&Livesey and "our" Jones, hitting a sweet spot between youth/mobility and relative reliability/experience. Alty's James Jones would be a decent option. However, I suspect he'll be moving up a level. On the subject of our James Jones, would I be correct in assuming he declined to play for us in the play offs? He would have been eligible. If so, that's disappointing as he originally came through our youth set up.
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Jul 23, 2020 7:53:26 GMT
Well that'd be why then. I wasn't aware. What a shame, another talented young player gone. I think if we don’t go up next season we need to rethink the model and try to be the “Crewe of non league” - we’ve got the Academy structure in place already. Noble and Murray were the absolute standouts of the recent batch of Academy graduates - what chance do the others have? LMH and Goodwin won’t be anywhere near the first team - we’ve got four forwards ahead of them and we need to replace Asante’s goals. The biggest fear is that Calum won’t be holding both of his roles for long and at some point will have to go all in at Runcorn - he’s the draw for us, selling the club to parents. It’ll be tough once he’s gone. We’ve got the opportunity now with the Academy set up we have to go the Crewe way but while the current managers are here there seems to be little hope for Academy lads sadly, apart from the odd game (Cheshire Senior Cup) or to plug in gaps. They aren't willing to sacrifice the limited budget but in a way you can’t blame them as they want success and obviously feel experienced heads and younger players whom have had first team football elsewhere are the way to go. I get that. We all want the same success but we could end up looking back on this as a missed opportunity in years to come if we are still plugging away between National League and NLN with a shell of an Academy we once had. To go full on Crewe there would need to be a number of different strands. Increasing the scouting network. Having a developed progression path for young players. Developing extensive links with local clubs to send our young players out on loan and monitoring their progress. Identifying the best young players in the Evostick leagues etc at an early stage and signing the best young players on, that have been disgarded by football league clubs Signing players on that have pace or physicality and can be developed. And any funds from sales re-cycled back into the system. We need to keep developing our own Sam Hughes's and Tom Crawfords, but we need to sign on the Jackson's Hinnegans and Alabi's of this world. All that takes resources, patience and real commitment.
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Post by agl on Jul 23, 2020 8:16:17 GMT
Was reading that Brentford don't have an academy, but focus instead on recruiting players aged 17-21. Imo that makes sense as it must be easier to identify those that are likely to make it. Not sure how it would work at our level in terms of giving them competitive game time.
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Post by Wortleyblue on Jul 23, 2020 9:01:55 GMT
Was reading that Brentford don't have an academy, but focus instead on recruiting players aged 17-21. Imo that makes sense as it must be easier to identify those that are likely to make it. Not sure how it would work at our level in terms of giving them competitive game time. Talking about Brentford they have just missed out on automatic promotion to the premiershit just shows how different the paths of 2 clubs can take they go from strength to strength whilst we get shafted by unscrupulous owners and spiral downwards (off topic I know but just thought I'd mention it)
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Post by dc2cfc on Jul 23, 2020 9:22:37 GMT
Was reading that Brentford don't have an academy, but focus instead on recruiting players aged 17-21. Imo that makes sense as it must be easier to identify those that are likely to make it. Not sure how it would work at our level in terms of giving them competitive game time. Yes i think, they have those players play against other good reserve sides on a regular basis. By looking at this it looks like they've made about £50 Million profit from transfers over the 5/6 years - www.transferleague.co.uk/brentford/english-football-teams/brentford-transfersSold players on such as Andre Gray, Jota, Chris Mepham, John Egan, Neal Maupay, Ezri Konsa. Impressive way of running a club compared to the rest of the Championship teams !
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Jul 23, 2020 9:30:57 GMT
Was reading that Brentford don't have an academy, but focus instead on recruiting players aged 17-21. Imo that makes sense as it must be easier to identify those that are likely to make it. Not sure how it would work at our level in terms of giving them competitive game time. Yes i think, they have those players play against other good reserve sides on a regular basis. By looking at this it looks like they've made about £50 Million profit from transfers over the 5/6 years - www.transferleague.co.uk/brentford/english-football-teams/brentford-transfersSold players on such as Andre Gray, Jota, Chris Mepham, John Egan, Neal Maupay, Ezri Konsa. Impressive way of running a club compared to the rest of the Championship teams We need to identify and build on good practice such as this.!
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Post by classycas on Jul 23, 2020 10:32:01 GMT
There’s never been a bridge between the Academy and the first team, we’ve still produced players and sold them on. As I’ve said I don’t overly blame the managers, they want promotion and success and have a limited budget. I just think if we are still in this league at the end of next season we should have a conversation concerning the model of the club on the pitch. When you say there's never been a bridge, in the old days we used to run a reserve team. I doubt that is financially viable now. But to my knowledge in the last ten years we have only received fees for three youth team players. Perhaps the deal for Sam Hughes alone justifies the existence of the youth set up but fear he was a one off. Our second biggest fee was probably Sarcevic who didn't come through our youth system More worrying than the lack of fees is why we aren't bringing players through to be first team regulars at sixth tier level.
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Post by billyw on Jul 23, 2020 11:56:04 GMT
There’s never been a bridge between the Academy and the first team, we’ve still produced players and sold them on. As I’ve said I don’t overly blame the managers, they want promotion and success and have a limited budget. I just think if we are still in this league at the end of next season we should have a conversation concerning the model of the club on the pitch. When you say there's never been a bridge, in the old days we used to run a reserve team. I doubt that is financially viable now. But to my knowledge in the last ten years we have only received fees for three youth team players. Perhaps the deal for Sam Hughes alone justifies the existence of the youth set up but fear he was a one off. Our second biggest fee was probably Sarcevic who didn't come through our youth system More worrying than the lack of fees is why we aren't bringing players through to be first team regulars at sixth tier level. Didn’t Sam Hughes originally come to us from Tranmere ?
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Post by agl on Jul 23, 2020 13:26:53 GMT
When you say there's never been a bridge, in the old days we used to run a reserve team. I doubt that is financially viable now. But to my knowledge in the last ten years we have only received fees for three youth team players. Perhaps the deal for Sam Hughes alone justifies the existence of the youth set up but fear he was a one off. Our second biggest fee was probably Sarcevic who didn't come through our youth system More worrying than the lack of fees is why we aren't bringing players through to be first team regulars at sixth tier level. Didn’t Sam Hughes originally come to us from Tranmere ? I believe he was Chester academy from the age of 15. From the Wirral but not aware of any Tranmere connection.
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Post by Neil Hunt Nonsense Potter on Jul 23, 2020 16:03:13 GMT
Didn’t Sam Hughes originally come to us from Tranmere ? I believe he was Chester academy from the age of 15. From the Wirral but not aware of any Tranmere connection. Was released from Tranmere academy at u12. Was scouted by a Chester FC scout at West Kirkby JFC as a 14 year old. Captained the youth team a year young, and became the youngest ever captain of Chester / Chester City FC at 19. Hughes, Tom Crawford and James Jones got their breaks due to injury to squad members and took their chance. The fees alone received from these lads more than cover any cost to Chester FC the academy has ever had over 10 years. To fully realise the potential of these first year pros the club needs an u23/reserve side playing good standard football regularly. This comes at a cost, but a cost risk analysis is worth the effort if the club believe that the potential is there. Sam Hughes made the club £100k as a centre half. A centre forward of similar ability making that move earns us 5-10 times that. Goodwin, Crilly I really like. Would love to see them get minutes pre-season.
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Post by cfcyouthacademy on Jul 23, 2020 22:42:55 GMT
Imo the problem is that there is no bridge between the academy and the first team. These kids might look good in youth games but they're not strong enough to play week in week out at first team level. The only option is to send them out on loan, to a lower level and hope they cope with the physicality. It's a real issue because if the best of the academy players aren't coming through to be regular first team players at regional level it does beg the question...what's the point? Arguably the only successes have been Sam Hughes, Tom Crawford, James Jones and Matty Waters in ten years. Tom Peers has done OK elsewhere but didn't show much for us, so there's nothing so far to suggest releasing these lads is a mistake. I tend to reject the argument that they're not given a chance by the managers, who must be well aware of their ability and limitations. We must also be losing out to the likes of Crewe and Shrewsbury, who can offer the best kids a league set up and the carrot of professional football, whereas all we can offer is part time if they make it. Of course the youth system is an asset for the club in terms of the community, getting the kids and their parents connected to the club but would also be interested to know how many become long term fans once they/ their kids leave us? Would also be interested to know what is the cost of the youth system over the decade since reformation taking into account sponsorship, transfer fees received etc. When you see league clubs scrapoing youth set ups it does leave you scratching your head a bit, and wondering whether we might be better off investing in scouting players from leagues below and using money to hoover a few up who look promising. I’m really sorry, but I have to pick this up as I am staggered by the comments in this post. Firstly, you have listed the “only successes” as 5 players that went on to be solid members of the first team squad In the past five seasons. In that “only” five successes, we have sold one to the Premier League for a six figure transfer fee, another to the Football League for a five figure transfer fee, ANOTHER to the Football League for a significant fee and one of those mentioned above has made over 60 first team appearances. Can you find me another club at this level that have been more productive please? Equally, can you find a club or equal resource that has got anywhere this kind of productivity? A question worth raising, the appearances from Murray, Thomson, Noble. What were they worth? Particularly at a time when the club has injuries. What did this save us potentially by having these boys to make appearances. The cost of the Youth section needs spelling out, you are dead right. In recent seasons, it has had a COST TO CHESTER FC OF NO MORE THAN £11k per season. Over 85% of the cost incurred by the Academy must be met by a mix of education funding, subscriptions and fundraising. Are you aware of the subscription payments we require from parents to make ends meet? We have generated north of £155k in transfer fees alone. This absolutely outweighs the cost of the Academy since it’s formation by an enormous amount of money. I notice the comment about losing players to Shrewsbury and Crewe. When did this happen? We have moved plenty of younger players on to Category 1 football. Regarding the last comment, “what’s the point?”, but surely it’s worth knowing at least a small collection of the facts before suggesting the most profitable department of the football club in recent years isn’t performing. But yes, perhaps, what is the point after all?
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Post by waggoner on Jul 24, 2020 6:25:51 GMT
I think if we don’t go up next season we need to rethink the model and try to be the “Crewe of non league” - we’ve got the Academy structure in place already. Noble and Murray were the absolute standouts of the recent batch of Academy graduates - what chance do the others have? LMH and Goodwin won’t be anywhere near the first team - we’ve got four forwards ahead of them and we need to replace Asante’s goals. The biggest fear is that Calum won’t be holding both of his roles for long and at some point will have to go all in at Runcorn - he’s the draw for us, selling the club to parents. It’ll be tough once he’s gone. We’ve got the opportunity now with the Academy set up we have to go the Crewe way but while the current managers are here there seems to be little hope for Academy lads sadly, apart from the odd game (Cheshire Senior Cup) or to plug in gaps. They aren't willing to sacrifice the limited budget but in a way you can’t blame them as they want success and obviously feel experienced heads and younger players whom have had first team football elsewhere are the way to go. I get that. We all want the same success but we could end up looking back on this as a missed opportunity in years to come if we are still plugging away between National League and NLN with a shell of an Academy we once had. To go full on Crewe there would need to be a number of different strands. Increasing the scouting network. Having a developed progression path for young players. Developing extensive links with local clubs to send our young players out on loan and monitoring their progress. Identifying the best young players in the Evostick leagues etc at an early stage and signing the best young players on, that have been disgarded by football league clubs Signing players on that have pace or physicality and can be developed. And any funds from sales re-cycled back into the system. We need to keep developing our own Sam Hughes's and Tom Crawfords, but we need to sign on the Jackson's Hinnegans and Alabi's of this world. All that takes resources, patience and real commitment. Doing a 'Crewe' is a thing of the past. Gone are the days you can sell an Ian Rush and make millions. A club at our level usually ends up getting next to nowt just a small 'development fee'. As for developing players from our own set up the best we can do is (as some have said) bring them through for our own use. If a kid gets sent out on loan it is usually because he is not good enough to break into the 1st team. If they drop a couple of divisions and don't really shine or stand out, then that is their level. Remember. We are a NLN club and we are not going to attract the cream of the crop. Even when we do find a good un we won't benefit from it unless he is for our own use in our first team. But if they are good enough to play at a higher level then clubs at our level just get the player stolen off us, with little to show for it.
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Post by agl on Jul 24, 2020 9:13:49 GMT
To go full on Crewe there would need to be a number of different strands. Increasing the scouting network. Having a developed progression path for young players. Developing extensive links with local clubs to send our young players out on loan and monitoring their progress. Identifying the best young players in the Evostick leagues etc at an early stage and signing the best young players on, that have been disgarded by football league clubs Signing players on that have pace or physicality and can be developed. And any funds from sales re-cycled back into the system. We need to keep developing our own Sam Hughes's and Tom Crawfords, but we need to sign on the Jackson's Hinnegans and Alabi's of this world. All that takes resources, patience and real commitment. Doing a 'Crewe' is a thing of the past. Gone are the days you can sell an Ian Rush and make millions. A club at our level usually ends up getting next to nowt just a small 'development fee'. As for developing players from our own set up the best we can do is (as some have said) bring them through for our own use. If a kid gets sent out on loan it is usually because he is not good enough to break into the 1st team. If they drop a couple of divisions and don't really shine or stand out, then that is their level. Remember. We are a NLN club and we are not going to attract the cream of the crop. Even when we do find a good un we won't benefit from it unless he is for our own use in our first team. But if they are good enough to play at a higher level then clubs at our level just get the player stolen off us, with little to show for it. A very depressing assessment of the youth system but I think you are spot on.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 25, 2020 21:51:39 GMT
Tom Peers could be back in the NL next season - an Academy graduate who has done very well since leaving us and that’s because he’s been given time and games.
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Post by g1 on Jul 25, 2020 22:23:58 GMT
Tom Peers could be back in the NL next season - an Academy graduate who has done very well since leaving us and that’s because he’s been given time and games. yes always thought he was a good player but again one we weren't patient with
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Post by Anders on Jul 25, 2020 22:57:41 GMT
Tom Peers could be back in the NL next season - an Academy graduate who has done very well since leaving us and that’s because he’s been given time and games. Not sure really, he never starts for Alty, literally always comes off the bench with 15 or so minutes left when games are generally done with. Good for him but I don't think we're really missing out on anything.
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