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Post by Lobster on Jul 15, 2020 16:09:30 GMT
Iwan Murray has made a move to Runcorn Linnets Disappointing really. He's looked good when given the chance. Seems like there's not much point in us having this highly successful youth set-up if it's not going to lead to home grown players featuring in the first team.
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Post by Wortleyblue on Jul 15, 2020 16:34:39 GMT
Is Callum poaching our starlets
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Post by Old Seal on Jul 15, 2020 16:44:47 GMT
I agree with you both. Young Ewan has played really well when called on. I'm sure he will one to watch in the future. I'm surprised he's gone now and not after the play offs.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 16:45:32 GMT
Good move for him and you’d expect to see a few more academy grads getting game time over there. Had a brilliant start against Kidderminster and scored a beauty away at Ashton but I never felt he would have the physicality at this level and was really similar to Nathan Brown who also showed glimpses of quality.
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Post by CH2 on Jul 15, 2020 16:51:40 GMT
Is Callum poaching our starlets That's what I was wondering, but would Iwan have been on his way out anyway? Who knows?
It's disappointing, if we don't get promotion, Iwan would have been a good option off the bench in NLN.
IF, we do somehow pull it off and get promoted, I think he'd have struggled finding a place in a National League team.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 17:29:49 GMT
I think he's done the right thing. Because he is from the youth team we see them in a different light,he played OK when he came on but just not got the stature and strength for me.i Wish him good luck.
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Post by rhodri on Jul 15, 2020 19:37:57 GMT
Will be interesting to see what happens to Cain Noble. I've been nothing but impressed when I've seen him play, and an eye for goal. Didn't seem phased even he played the last few games in the national league 2 seasons back. Spent the whole of last season on loan. Maybe it was done knowing that the likes of Burton and Stopforth may not be around next year (just my personal view) so he's ready to step up. I wouldn't be surprised if Roberts gets another year, but probably back up to Glennon.
Not knowing the current youth team so well, is there anyone else we can expect to see come up from the youngsters to the first team.
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Post by Rio Doherty on Jul 15, 2020 21:09:13 GMT
Such a shame to see Iwan go as he produced some brilliant memories for our Academy, whilst he had a very strong start and end to last season - especially at home against Kidderminster Harriers and away at Ashton United where he scored a worldie. As somebody else pointed out above he is a very similar player to Nathan Brown - both physically and ability-wise - as he can more than hold his own at this level but regarding pushing onto the next level, his height is a disadvantage. There is no doubt that Iwan has a very bright future ahead of him as he has bags of potential, so in that respect I am slightly disappointed we have let go of him because in the past he has been the type of player who has made an impact off the bench, and most crucially solved some of our creativity issues in midfield (prior to George Glendon coming in). Unfortunately we saw much less of Murray than we would have liked this season, so I really do hope that he is a weekly fixture for Runcorn Linnets as he deserves regular football, and in my opinion he is more than good enough for the division they play in. Good luck for the rest of your career Iwan!
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 15, 2020 21:26:37 GMT
Is Callum poaching our starlets No, the lad was a free agent.
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Post by rcb on Jul 15, 2020 22:25:47 GMT
There will be plenty of quality players, including some ex-chester, as free agents who have played at a higher level. Next season has the potential for a quality squad. Over to the managers now.
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Post by prodigal on Jul 15, 2020 22:28:53 GMT
Think the 'size' thing is more psychological than anything, some managers ( and fans ) just don't like smaller players, although countless have achieved and still do at the highest level, Maradona was quite stocky when he was at his peak but he was only 5 foot 2 and a bit, when Mahony was at his best for us, he frustrated defenders, got fouled often because of his size, and we got a free kick, defenders must have hated him. I remember when we played Blacon Y.C at Cairnsy, I heard one of the Blacon central defenders who was at least 6ft complain to the ref, that he kept getting 'beaten up' by the Chester number 8 on long goal kicks, our no 8 that night was Nathan Brown....., I think if a player has the skills and is 'brave enough', cos you're going to get hurt now and then, then size should,'t really matter! ffnah, ffnah
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Jul 16, 2020 6:36:27 GMT
Will be interesting to see what happens to Cain Noble. I've been nothing but impressed when I've seen him play, and an eye for goal. Didn't seem phased even he played the last few games in the national league 2 seasons back. Spent the whole of last season on loan. Maybe it was done knowing that the likes of Burton and Stopforth may not be around next year (just my personal view) so he's ready to step up. I wouldn't be surprised if Roberts gets another year, but probably back up to Glennon. Not knowing the current youth team so well, is there anyone else we can expect to see come up from the youngsters to the first team. I agree. Cain Noble and Lloyd Marsh Hughes should be retained. (Although, injuries have hampered the latters progress). Both have the physicality required. Will Goodwin, a strong centre forward has signed a contract. Scored 7 goals, in 10 games, on loan at Sandbach. Always been impressed by him.
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Jul 16, 2020 6:50:12 GMT
Think the 'size' thing is more psychological than anything, some managers ( and fans ) just don't like smaller players, although countless have achieved and still do at the highest level, Maradona was quite stocky when he was at his peak but he was only 5 foot 2 and a bit, when Mahony was at his best for us, he frustrated defenders, got fouled often because of his size, and we got a free kick, defenders must have hated him. I remember when we played Blacon Y.C at Cairnsy, I heard one of the Blacon central defenders who was at least 6ft complain to the ref, that he kept getting 'beaten up' by the Chester number 8 on long goal kicks, our no 8 that night was Nathan Brown....., I think if a player has the skills and is 'brave enough', cos you're going to get hurt now and then, then size should,'t really matter! ffnah, ffnah When I did some coaching, my preference was for strong , physical players, but I ve had some excellent players, who were 5ft 2. They usually had pace, which was important, down the flanks or through the middle.
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Post by Anders on Jul 16, 2020 8:41:39 GMT
Think the 'size' thing is more psychological than anything, some managers ( and fans ) just don't like smaller players, although countless have achieved and still do at the highest level, Maradona was quite stocky when he was at his peak but he was only 5 foot 2 and a bit, when Mahony was at his best for us, he frustrated defenders, got fouled often because of his size, and we got a free kick, defenders must have hated him. I remember when we played Blacon Y.C at Cairnsy, I heard one of the Blacon central defenders who was at least 6ft complain to the ref, that he kept getting 'beaten up' by the Chester number 8 on long goal kicks, our no 8 that night was Nathan Brown....., I think if a player has the skills and is 'brave enough', cos you're going to get hurt now and then, then size should,'t really matter! ffnah, ffnah I think it can depend on the position, myself. For as much as I liked Murray I couldn't see how he'd regularly fit in to the team centrally in midfield unless we packed it out.
Hopefully he does well as I always enjoyed watching him play.
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Post by Neil Hunt Nonsense Potter on Jul 16, 2020 9:43:32 GMT
I think it was a shame his chances were limited by new signings, as I think he would have continued to develop given minutes. Unfortunately players coming in means we will never find out here. Wish him all the best at Runcorn and hope he goes on to have a great career in the game.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2020 11:23:34 GMT
Had his best game for us against Kidderminster last season at home If i remember right he was a late call up to the squad due to Burton getting injured in the warm up. Murray took his chance and ran rings around every Kidderminster player that night a deserved man of the match
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Post by Si on Jul 16, 2020 11:25:25 GMT
A really talented footballer but hard to see him fitting into the system here. He is unfortunately one of those sort of luxury players that needs the license to float around in attacking areas rather than being confined to being a central midfielder/striker/winger which he suits none of. I think this is a positive move for him, he'll be playing for Callum who will know all about his attributes and how to fit him in to a system. At that level, you could build a team around a talented player like Murray. And with Callum there the Chester connection is so strong so it wouldn't surprise me if he did really well and found himself back here at some point. Right here right now he needs regular men's football and its the most suitable move for him.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2020 14:02:02 GMT
Don't think I've seen a player dominate a game of Football more than Iwan did in the Under-19 Alliance Final at Walsall. Had Halifax fans by us groaning every time he got the ball because they just couldn't live with him, loads of them asking questions about him and saying he'd go on to be a star. I hope they're proved right. Good Luck Iwan.
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Post by classycas on Jul 17, 2020 5:30:52 GMT
Much has been made about Calum Mac’s young guns but the dynamic duo don’t have a very good record of turning former youth team stars into first-team regulars. If I was Iwan Murray, I’d be desperately disappointed at having to make the move to Runcorn in order to progress my career.
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Post by Harry Lime on Jul 17, 2020 6:44:11 GMT
Much has been made about Calum Mac’s young guns but the dynamic duo don’t have a very good record of turning former youth team stars into first-team regulars. If I was Iwan Murray, I’d be desperately disappointed at having to make the move to Runcorn in order to progress my career. Of all the ex Youth players that we've released over the years, how many are actually playing at NLN or above? Genuìne question. I don't know the answer, but I'm sure deva chatters will. Tom Peers eventually made it with Alty 3 years after he left us. Are there any others consistently playing at this level? Two years ago I'd have put money on Noble being in the first team by now. Unfortunately I'm not sure he developed in that time. I've only seen him in Cheshire Cup games this season, but he doesn't seem to get on the ball enough. The game goes on around him, and he tackles well, but doesn't affect the game. It is a discussion point that maybe two of Murray, Noble, McCready and Crilly would be options as subs. Wouldn't disagree with that argument. But how much would they improve sat on the bench? How many young players are there playing in NL and NLN? Not many at all. It's the physicality of British football that hinders their development.
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Post by Si on Jul 17, 2020 8:19:56 GMT
Much has been made about Calum Mac’s young guns but the dynamic duo don’t have a very good record of turning former youth team stars into first-team regulars. If I was Iwan Murray, I’d be desperately disappointed at having to make the move to Runcorn in order to progress my career. The other argument to that is that they have a duty of care to protect these lads, and throwing them in when they aren't ready could be detrimental. I remember Murray bursting onto the scene, but it tailed off and when he came on he'd lose the ball and fans were beginning to groan, it was around that point he was taken out of the firing line as that's the kind of thing that can shatter a young lads confidence. The managers see them in training playing with our first team regulars so they can get a feel for whether they are ready, and think I read Jonno mentioning recently that various midweek friendlies are arranged to aid their development. We also have to be mindful that it's such a massive leap from the league they play in with the youth team to then featuring for us - we don't have the luxury of a reserve team so the loan spells or midweek friendlies are the nearest thing these lads get to transitioning towards the level the first team are at. Perhaps if we were a mid table side Bern and Jonno could have taken a few more risks with them, but we were in a fight for the title and play offs and could you really argue a case in an important game for say Noble to be playing ahead of Glendon or Stopforth etc? We all want to see these lads progress, none more so than Bern and Jonno I suspect, but they have to be showing that they are ready to cope with it and that's down to the judgement of the managers who work with them all the time. Callum being at Runcorn could be a really useful thing for us, as no doubt a couple of the youth team lads will go on loan there next season and get some regular game time with a manager that knows their strengths and in a competitive environment.
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Post by g1 on Jul 17, 2020 8:20:44 GMT
Much has been made about Calum Mac’s young guns but the dynamic duo don’t have a very good record of turning former youth team stars into first-team regulars. If I was Iwan Murray, I’d be desperately disappointed at having to make the move to Runcorn in order to progress my career. Of all the ex Youth players that we've released over the years, how many are actually playing at NLN or above? Genuìne question. I don't know the answer, but I'm sure deva chatters will. Tom Peers eventually made it with Alty 3 years after he left us. Are there any others consistently playing at this level? Two years ago I'd have put money on Noble being in the first team by now. Unfortunately I'm not sure he developed in that time. I've only seen him in Cheshire Cup games this season, but he doesn't seem to get on the ball enough. The game goes on around him, and he tackles well, but doesn't affect the game. It is a discussion point that maybe two of Murray, Noble, McCready and Crilly would be options as subs. Wouldn't disagree with that argument. But how much would they improve sat on the bench? How many young players are there playing in NL and NLN? Not many at all. It's the physicality of British football that hinders their development. Sam Hughes
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Post by Harry Lime on Jul 17, 2020 9:00:46 GMT
Of all the ex Youth players that we've released over the years, how many are actually playing at NLN or above? Genuìne question. I don't know the answer, but I'm sure deva chatters will. Tom Peers eventually made it with Alty 3 years after he left us. Are there any others consistently playing at this level? Two years ago I'd have put money on Noble being in the first team by now. Unfortunately I'm not sure he developed in that time. I've only seen him in Cheshire Cup games this season, but he doesn't seem to get on the ball enough. The game goes on around him, and he tackles well, but doesn't affect the game. It is a discussion point that maybe two of Murray, Noble, McCready and Crilly would be options as subs. Wouldn't disagree with that argument. But how much would they improve sat on the bench? How many young players are there playing in NL and NLN? Not many at all. It's the physicality of British football that hinders their development. Sam Hughes Sam wasn't released. He was sold on.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2020 9:05:40 GMT
Sam wasn't released. He was sold on. How many academy boys have been sold? Sam Hughes to Leicester Tom Crawford to Notts County James Jones to Salford City Any others?
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Post by classycas on Jul 17, 2020 9:55:30 GMT
The point, therefore, is Callum Mac is failing to develop players up to a level where they are good enough to cut the mustard at NLN level. I’m sure CM is a nice guy, works his socks off etc etc but he obviously doesn’t have the ability of a first-class youth/academy coach.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 17, 2020 10:12:11 GMT
The point, therefore, is Callum Mac is failing to develop players up to a level where they are good enough to cut the mustard at NLN level. I’m sure CM is a nice guy, works his socks off etc etc but he obviously doesn’t have the ability of a first-class youth/academy coach. Aside from the aforementioned trio that have moved on to higher levels, we’ve had Waters, Thomson, Marsh-Hughes who have all impressed at NLP let alone NLN, with Noble having also shown potential. Murray was one of our most talented players. I just feel the first team management don’t seem to want to play them, and they refer to the likes of Johnston and Taylor (signings from other clubs) when they talk about developing youth. Would rather the kids that have been let go play over the likes of Elton Ngwatala...
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Post by devablue on Jul 17, 2020 11:33:47 GMT
The point, therefore, is Callum Mac is failing to develop players up to a level where they are good enough to cut the mustard at NLN level. I’m sure CM is a nice guy, works his socks off etc etc but he obviously doesn’t have the ability of a first-class youth/academy coach. Yeah he's done so crap on a next to nothing budget with a group of volunteer coaches.. At our level i'd imagine we have more home grown players than most in and around the first-team squad. Callum has done an excellent job developing the youth team players for the first-team, the difficulty is that there is a lack of a bridge between youth team and first-team level with our limited budget set up (no u23's/reserves). You could say that if there even is an issue, it's the first-team coaches not integrating the youth team players well enough. But now, with Callum being at Runcorn Linnets, there will be a better player development pathway with 19/20 year olds being able to adapt to first-team football 2 steps below NLN (despite their fans not enjoying that link).
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Post by superhans on Jul 17, 2020 12:02:16 GMT
Shame to see Murray go, but echo what others have said. Imagine that we would've had to offer him a deal for next season in order for him to play on Sunday? And not sure we're in a position to do so.
If he does go on to set the world alight at Runcorn (which I hope he does), I'm sure he'd be open to a move back and with very little cost involved. And working with Callum again there's probably no better place for him to go to develop. Shame he couldn't have been signed to a new deal and then loaned out with Runcorn picking up some of the cost, though.
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Post by chesterken on Jul 17, 2020 12:12:15 GMT
The point, therefore, is Callum Mac is failing to develop players up to a level where they are good enough to cut the mustard at NLN level. I’m sure CM is a nice guy, works his socks off etc etc but he obviously doesn’t have the ability of a first-class youth/academy coach. It’s a complete myth if you think teams at our level produce young players every season who jump into the first team and then get a big money transfer, I would say the sale of the 3 players mentioned is not a bad return for this club.
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Post by Si on Jul 17, 2020 13:17:52 GMT
The point, therefore, is Callum Mac is failing to develop players up to a level where they are good enough to cut the mustard at NLN level. I’m sure CM is a nice guy, works his socks off etc etc but he obviously doesn’t have the ability of a first-class youth/academy coach. It’s a complete myth if you think teams at our level produce young players every season who jump into the first team and then get a big money transfer, I would say the sale of the 3 players mentioned is not a bad return for this club. Exactly. To produce even just one player who way up the pyramid is a cracking return given what resources Callum has. He literally couldn't have done more - he gets his teams winning the leagues year in year out, consistent runs in the FA cup again clubs with much funding, it's not his fault that there isn't a pathway to bridge the gap in levels. Clubs with much more funding would struggle to produce as many players as he has. Just because they might not get their chance in our team it doesn't mean he hasn't done a cracking job, with lads like Nathan Brown and Alex Downes doing well in the welsh pyramid. I get the impression he is also excellent with them on a man management level too, developing them as human beings. Sure, we all we want our own academy products bursting into the team each season but not many clubs accomplish that, but Callum can certainly do no more than what he already has.
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