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Post by Wortleyblue on Oct 29, 2020 14:51:38 GMT
Thank god he wasn't elected PM
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Post by Lobster on Oct 29, 2020 15:00:10 GMT
Yeah. It's going great without him.
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Post by Firestick Frank on Oct 29, 2020 15:09:29 GMT
Must be an appetite for mass genocide and starving children in Wortley.
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Post by Wortleyblue on Oct 29, 2020 15:30:14 GMT
Must be an appetite for mass genocide and starving children in Wortley. Definately not and certainly no racists in Wortley either |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Oct 29, 2020 15:35:10 GMT
But you made it clear you wanted this government, the one we’ve got now, the one presiding over tens of thousands of preventable deaths to siphon off public funds to their mates whilst starving the poorest children in the country?
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Post by jedthehumanoid on Oct 29, 2020 15:36:25 GMT
I've just read through his statement and I can't see anything in there that warrants suspension. He admits there are/were issues and that steps were taken to improve, though he regrets they were too slow. Am I missing something?
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Post by Firestick Frank on Oct 29, 2020 15:43:33 GMT
I've just read through his statement and I can't see anything in there that warrants suspension. He admits there are/were issues and that steps were taken to improve, though he regrets they were too slow. Am I missing something? Think it’s an ideological decision to be honest, similar to the Long-Bailey case. Suspect they’ll “find” something on Burgon next. |
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Oct 29, 2020 15:46:23 GMT
But you made it clear you wanted this government, the one we’ve got now, the one presiding over tens of thousands of preventable deaths to siphon off public funds to their mates whilst starving the poorest children in the country? As today has yet further demonstrated, the less said about the kind of government you wanted the better. A day of shame for the ever shameless. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Oct 29, 2020 15:52:53 GMT
Still bemused by it all to be honest. It’s quite clearly ideological based.
I wanted a government that would feed hungry children, improve the lives of those worse off, make the billionaires pay their taxes and keep the NHS safe from privatisation. The fact that you criticise that says more about you than it does about me. My conscience is clear.
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Post by Deva Chanter on Oct 29, 2020 16:33:47 GMT
Must be an appetite for mass genocide and starving children in Wortley. Definately not and certainly no racists in Wortley either You voted for a party that was responsible for deporting the Windrush generation, 54% of whose members think Islam is a threat to the UK, called Nelson Mandela a 'terrorist', whose leader called black people 'piccaninnies' with 'watermelon smiles' and said Muslim women wearing the burqa looked like 'bank robbers' and 'letterboxes', and paraded 'Go Home' vans around the country. Oh and just for good measure, if you live in Wortley, the fascist BNP got 6 percent of the vote in your constituency in 2010 and in 2019 it was the seat with the most number of Brexit Party voters in the country. Definitely no racists in Wortley big man. |
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Post by Wortleyblue on Oct 29, 2020 17:00:40 GMT
Definately not and certainly no racists in Wortley either You voted for a party that was responsible for deporting the Windrush generation, 54% of whose members think Islam is a threat to the UK, called Nelson Mandela a 'terrorist', whose leader called black people 'piccaninnies' with 'watermelon smiles' and said Muslim women wearing the burqa looked like 'bank robbers' and 'letterboxes', and paraded 'Go Home' vans around the country. Oh and just for good measure, if you live in Wortley, the fascist BNP got 6 percent of the vote in your constituency in 2010 and in 2019 it was the seat with the most number of Brexit Party voters in the country. Definitely no racists in Wortley big man. Wortley is a small village with about 300 people living in it and is in the constituency of Penistone and Stocksbridge which has a population of over 87000 so there may well be some racists in the area who incidently used to be staunch Labour |
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Post by Ian H Block on Oct 29, 2020 17:36:46 GMT
Clearly there must be two EHRC Reports out today because some of the stuff people are saying bears absolutely no relation to what is actually in the document.
It is clear that once the left gained control of party bureaucracy the mechanisms dealing with AS complaints actually improved and much of blame should be placed at McNicol’s door. One of the criticisms in the report is that Corbyn tried to intervene in the Ken Livingstone suspension to speed up the process and ensure that disciplinary processes were more robust. Clearly JC couldn’t win either way.
It is apparent that there is left wing antisemitism (as there is across the whole political spectrum) but this has existed in Labour since 90s and as been ruthlessly exploited and overemphasised by Labour right types for factional gain at the expense of the safety and wellbeing of British Jews.
It’s a sad day for the party I have been a member of, off and on since I was a teenager. Indeed, I used to attend meetings of the Young Socialists when Michael Foot was leader and remember well the last big purging of the Left under Kinnock.
Today’s pantomime shows that any attempt by the Left to politically engage and argue for transformational politics in good faith within existing structures of the Labour Party will be ruthlessly crushed by any means necessary. A truly depressing thought and leaving voters in England the choice between far-right neo-liberalism and centre-right neo-liberalism.
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Post by Firestick Frank on Oct 29, 2020 18:00:59 GMT
Clearly there must be two EHRC Reports our today because some of the stuff people are saying bears absolutely no relation to what is actually in the document. It is clear that once the left gained control of party bureaucracy the mechanisms dealing with AS complaints actually improved and much of blame should be placed at McNicol’s door. One of the criticisms in the report is that Corbyn tried to intervene in the Ken Livingstone suspension to speed up the process and ensure that disciplinary processes were more robust. Clearly JC couldn’t win either way. It is apparent that there is left wing antisemitism (as there is across the whole political spectrum) but this has existed in Labour since 90s but has been ruthlessly exploited and overemphasised by Labour right types for factional gain at the expense of the safety and wellbeing of British Jews. It’s a sad day for the party I have been a member of, off and on since I was a teenager. Indeed, I used to attend meetings of the Young Socialists when Michael Foot was leader and remember well the last big purging of the Left under Kinnock. Today’s pantomime shows that any attempt by the Left to politically engage and argue for transformational politics in good faith within existing structures of the Labour Party will be ruthlessly crushed by any means necessary. A truly depressing thought and leaving voters in England the choice between far-right neo-liberalism and centre-right neo-liberalism. Very well summarised. FWIW, with the state of British politics now I am throwing my weight behind an independent Wales. The pandemic has shown completely that Wales can manage their affairs far better going alone. |
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Post by 1paulcarden on Oct 29, 2020 19:16:40 GMT
Right thing to happen. The man’s either even dafter than I thought or worse. An absolute stain on the Jewish community and the Labour Party. A good day for those that want to see the end of Tory rule.
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Post by Lobster on Oct 29, 2020 20:48:39 GMT
He's not everyone's cup of tea and his decision making is sometimes questionable. He's not perfect, I get that, but nobody can convince me he's not a millions time better than the absolute pillock we elected.
If you look at his history and the causes he's been involved in, I don't how anyone can genuinely think he's anti-Semitic though. I think a lot of people are insincere about what their real problem with him is.
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Post by Firestick Frank on Oct 29, 2020 20:57:19 GMT
He's not everyone's cup of tea and his decision making is sometimes questionable. He's not perfect, I get that, but nobody can convince me he's not a millions time better than the absolute pillock we elected. If you look at his history and the causes he's been involved in, I don't how anyone can genuinely think he's anti-Semitic though. I think a lot of people are insincere about what their real problem with him is. It’s a clear ideological decision. The current Labour leadership is playing a dangerous game weaponising AS for political motives. That the EHRC is run by the Government (yes the current Government) and is repeatedly refusing to listen to calls to investigate the Tories for institutional Islamophobia, tells its own story. |
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Post by scotty on Oct 30, 2020 8:41:57 GMT
Starmer is on TV right now saying that he did not suspend Jeremy Corbyn, David Evans did. Starmer says that he supports the action of the General Secretary.
What a slimeball and coward. He must think that we're stupid.
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Post by Lobster on Oct 30, 2020 9:26:56 GMT
Irrespective of the fact that I like Corbyn, I really think this is an own goal by Starmer, Evans or whoever was responsible.
Rightly or wrongly, everyone had kind of forgotten about Jeremy Corbyn. He'd become just an MP. For those traditional Labour votes who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Corbyn, I imagine it was enough that he wasn't leader any more. I can't see how suspending him from the party altogether would tempt anyone to vote for them who wouldn't have before. Meanwhile, those who identify with the more left-wing elements of the Labour Party are left feeling it's not their party once again. It's this sort of disconnect that led many bored voters to vote Lib Dem in 2009, and that was ultimately how the Tories got their way back into No. 10.
I know the last election was a flop for Labour and things had to change, but still, Corbyn represented hope and a clear alternative for people who had lost interest in politics. I also know certain people like to paint some of us on here as some kind of barmy socialist cult, but the reality is that our votes are as good as anyone's. Mancot already suggests he's not backing Labour anymore and I'm not sure I am either.
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Post by scotty on Oct 30, 2020 14:31:11 GMT
I don't know whether the decision was right or not (I saw Corbyn say something like 'that is an exaggeration. It was 0.3% not 3%' that didn't seem untoward to me but I don't know all the detail.)
Whatever, Starmer needs to own the decision. Putting David Evans in the frame is cowardly, and I'm not just saying this because we know David from his work with CFU. Starmer appears slippery and untrustworthy.
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Post by Oaks Blue on Oct 30, 2020 15:45:15 GMT
I don't know whether the decision was right or not (I saw Corbyn say something like 'that is an exaggeration. It was 0.3% not 3%' that didn't seem untoward to me but I don't know all the detail.) Whatever, Starmer needs to own the decision. Putting David Evans in the frame is cowardly, and I'm not just saying this because we know David from his work with CFU. Starmer appears slippery and untrustworthy. Slippery and untrustworthy? No! Seriously? I thought all politicians were solid upstanding members of the communities they serve... no? |
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Post by jedthehumanoid on Oct 30, 2020 15:47:31 GMT
Keir Starmer was my choice for leader after Jeremy Corbyn but I can't support this decision based on what I've read so far about the reasons for the suspension. It was clear after the last election that Labour needed someone more palatable for the majority of voters to consider and I thought Keir Starmer seemed a good balance of solid, working class roots with a smarter, slicker appearance. I hope he comes good and doesn't split the party over this decision.
Back to the suspension - from what I can tell Corbyn has said that he felt anti-Semitism was being overstated because of a report that showed the public perceived around 33% of Labour members to be anti-Semitic, when in truth the figure was around 0.3%. That seems a pretty fair statement to make.
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Post by Lobster on Oct 30, 2020 15:59:44 GMT
Keir Starmer was my choice for leader after Jeremy Corbyn but I can't support this decision based on what I've read so far about the reasons for the suspension. It was clear after the last election that Labour needed someone more palatable for the majority of voters to consider and I thought Keir Starmer seemed a good balance of solid, working class roots with a smarter, slicker appearance. I hope he comes good and doesn't split the party over this decision. Back to the suspension - from what I can tell Corbyn has said that he felt anti-Semitism was being overstated because of a report that showed the public perceived around 33% of Labour members to be anti-Semitic, when in truth the figure was around 0.3%. That seems a pretty fair statement to make. Exactly. Those figures, if accurate, do suggest an overstatement. He also began by clarifying that one anti-Semite in the party was too many. To reduce what he said to the word "overstated" is taking it out of context. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Oct 30, 2020 16:03:07 GMT
Similarly Rebecca Long-Bailey was suspended for tweeting the words: “Maxine Peake is a diamond” (though actually it was for supporting teachers and their unions when Starmer wanted to back the Government to force kids back to school earlier this year).
Nothing suspensions, seeking any opportunity to “purge” the left, definitely ideologically-driven.
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Post by Deva Chanter on Oct 30, 2020 16:04:17 GMT
Margaret Hodge MP compared a mild disciplinary rebuke from the Labour party to being chased out of Nazi Germany by the Gestapo.
Joan Ryan said that Labour members raising the Palestinian flag at party conference were "using it as a weapon against Jewish people".
According to the party it is now anti-semitic for me to suggest that the above examples of despicable and lurid weaponisations of racism are an exaggeration. I look forward to David sending me through my expulsion letter.
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Post by paulie on Oct 30, 2020 18:09:42 GMT
I don't know whether the decision was right or not (I saw Corbyn say something like 'that is an exaggeration. It was 0.3% not 3%' that didn't seem untoward to me but I don't know all the detail.) Whatever, Starmer needs to own the decision. Putting David Evans in the frame is cowardly, and I'm not just saying this because we know David from his work with CFU. Starmer appears slippery and untrustworthy. Slippery and untrustworthy? No! Seriously? I thought all politicians were solid upstanding members of the communities they serve... no? If a politician told me they were a liar I still wouldn’t believe them. |
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Post by Wortleyblue on Oct 30, 2020 18:14:12 GMT
Similarly Rebecca Long-Bailey was suspended for tweeting the words: “Maxine Peake is a diamond” (though actually it was for supporting teachers and their unions when Starmer wanted to back the Government to force kids back to school earlier this year). Nothing suspensions, seeking any opportunity to “purge” the left, definitely ideologically-driven.Maybe because they don't want the communist style of the far left even Russia eventually realised that didn't work. Extremism in either direction is a recipe for disaster |
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Post by Lobster on Oct 30, 2020 18:28:09 GMT
Similarly Rebecca Long-Bailey was suspended for tweeting the words: “Maxine Peake is a diamond” (though actually it was for supporting teachers and their unions when Starmer wanted to back the Government to force kids back to school earlier this year). Nothing suspensions, seeking any opportunity to “purge” the left, definitely ideologically-driven.Maybe because they don't want the communist style of the far left even Russia eventually realised that didn't work. Extremism in either direction is a recipe for disaster Agree, but we have a funny idea in this country of which party is the extremist one. www.politicalcompass.org/uk2019 |
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Post by Ian H Block on Oct 30, 2020 18:32:03 GMT
Similarly Rebecca Long-Bailey was suspended for tweeting the words: “Maxine Peake is a diamond” (though actually it was for supporting teachers and their unions when Starmer wanted to back the Government to force kids back to school earlier this year). Nothing suspensions, seeking any opportunity to “purge” the left, definitely ideologically-driven.Maybe because they don't want the communist style of the far left even Russia eventually realised that didn't work. Extremism in either direction is a recipe for disaster Couldn’t agree more about political extremism, which is why it’s so important we remove this far-right gangster government as soon as we can. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Oct 30, 2020 18:41:13 GMT
Similarly Rebecca Long-Bailey was suspended for tweeting the words: “Maxine Peake is a diamond” (though actually it was for supporting teachers and their unions when Starmer wanted to back the Government to force kids back to school earlier this year). Nothing suspensions, seeking any opportunity to “purge” the left, definitely ideologically-driven.Maybe because they don't want the communist style of the far left even Russia eventually realised that didn't work. Extremism in either direction is a recipe for disaster 1. Which policies in 2017/2019 were “communist far left”? The idea that feeding the poor and lifting them up is somehow considered “extremist” shows what a dire state this nations political discourse is in. Sadly the last election proved that the majority of England speak from the far right - and that includes a number of posters on this forum. 2. It’s wrong to use AS as a tool purely for ideological gain. It makes things worse for Jews. You may not agree with that but it is. |
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Post by Wortleyblue on Oct 30, 2020 18:46:54 GMT
Maybe because they don't want the communist style of the far left even Russia eventually realised that didn't work. Extremism in either direction is a recipe for disaster Agree, but we have a funny idea in this country of which party is the extremist one. www.politicalcompass.org/uk2019I don't think either party is fundamentley extreme right or left but they both have factions of both |
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