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Post by oldsealandroadender on Dec 6, 2020 11:39:15 GMT
The day before this fixture was originally due to take place i bought a pass for the stream. Come the next day the game was postponed. It was said refunds were available. As I fully intended watching the game when it did get played I didn't ask for a refund. Fast forward to yesterday and I logged in to their streaming site but just got taken to a payment page. As I'd already paid I tried logging out and logging in again a few times with the same result. There was a link to problems with the stream and reading that it said that a streaming pass was not valid for a rearranged game or transfer to another one. So my only option was to pay again to watch the game. All this messing about meant that I missed the start of the game.
So half time comes and I go back to their site to see about a refund. Apparently as it's pay per view if you buy a pass for a game at £7.99 it is only valid for that game at that date and time. If the game is rearranged it will not be valid for that time. Therefore a refund is available, which you have to apply for. Not only that but you only have 30 days from the date of the original fixture in which to apply otherwise your £7.99 is "donated" to York City FC.
Now people and organisations can make as many "rules" as they like but don't they still have to follow UK law. As far as I'm aware if somebody takes money for goods or services and does not provide said goods or services and keeps the the money then is that not fraud? They can quote terms and conditions but they still have to be legal. By putting the onus on you to apply for a refund in a certain time frame just saying that if you don't then you are agreeing to a "donation" is immoral if not downright illegal. If they won't allow a bought pass carry over for when the game is played then they should automatically issue a refund. If I had bought a physical ticket for a game when crowds were allowed and the game was postponed then that ticket would be valid for the rearranged game. They wouldn't cancel all the the tickets and resell them for the new date. Why should the electronic version be any different?
Anyway, I have emailed them asking for a refund. They will probably say that it's over 30 days but we'll see. I've also sent them an email asking for a refund on my second purchase for the same game. The stream never came back on for the second half and as I was busy emailing didn't notice the time. So I logged out and back in again missing the first ten minutes after the restart (fortunately just in time to see us score). Then at about 75 minutes the stream failed and no amount of faffing would bring it back. I don't think my chances are good at getting both refunds but if I got one I'd settle for that.
Did anyone else have any problems?
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Dec 6, 2020 11:53:19 GMT
Is isn’t fraud. You said yourself that you had 30 days to request a refund and you chose yourself not to do so. Just put it down to life experience for next time!
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Post by agl on Dec 6, 2020 12:02:49 GMT
Is isn’t fraud. You said yourself that you had 30 days to request a refund and you chose yourself not to do so. Just put it down to life experience for next time! Thought the stream was poor yesterday. Keep freezing, sound went off and the stream disappeared completely after about 75 minutes. When it worked the picture was ok |
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Post by Si on Dec 6, 2020 12:05:42 GMT
I have emailed and asked for a refund. I can take a bit of a jumpy picture and sound issues but its unacceptable to not be able to view something you paid for. I pay my money and expect to see the full match, not 3 quarters of it and missing the crucial final 15/20 minutes. I expect York will pocket all the money for themselves, im not even sure ive seen a formal apology for such a shite service yesterday.
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Post by cameandabel on Dec 6, 2020 12:08:44 GMT
They seemed more concerned about putting out some rather immature attempts at ‘banter’ on their official Twitter feed yesterday than they did in addressing any complaints over the quality of the stream. Pretty poor stuff from a club of their size.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Dec 6, 2020 12:12:31 GMT
Does anybody wonder whether similar problems might affect us for the bigger games versus York, Hereford, Darlo? With a considerably higher amount of streamers for these games.
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Post by oldsealandroadender on Dec 6, 2020 12:13:56 GMT
Is isn’t fraud. You said yourself that you had 30 days to request a refund and you chose yourself not to do so. Just put it down to life experience for next time! As I said you can quote whatever terms and conditions you like but you still have to conform to UK law. |
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Post by Matt on Dec 6, 2020 12:52:24 GMT
They seemed more concerned about putting out some rather immature attempts at ‘banter’ on their official Twitter feed yesterday than they did in addressing any complaints over the quality of the stream. Pretty poor stuff from a club of their size. I'm sure Leamington did something similar earlier in the season, we heard this years ago I don't know why it annoys so many. |
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mike
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Post by mike on Dec 6, 2020 13:19:33 GMT
Does anybody wonder whether similar problems might affect us for the bigger games versus York, Hereford, Darlo? With a considerably higher amount of streamers for these games. I don't think any club can be totally confident in the streaming platform they've opted for. It's a new thing for all clubs and there was very little time available to investigate options or to use friendlies for testing. Having made the decision to go with provider Inplayer.. we had less than a week to put the required hardware in place (at minimum cost) and learn how to use. All we can do from our side is ensure the stream from the ground to Inplayer is strong. We have a good upload connection and speed (I test this before each game). Also I took the decision to stream at 720p (other clubs use full HD 1080p). With 720p the picture may not be as crisp as HD, but is far less likely to pixelate or buffer as there's much less data on the stream. The platform has been pretty robust so far, so fingers crossed it will continue to cope well with increased numbers. |
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Dec 6, 2020 13:22:44 GMT
Does anybody wonder whether similar problems might affect us for the bigger games versus York, Hereford, Darlo? With a considerably higher amount of streamers for these games. I don't think any club can be totally confident in the streaming platform they've opted for. It's a new thing for all clubs and there was very little time available to investigate options or to use friendlies for testing. Having made the decision to go with provider Inplayer.. we had less than a week to put the required hardware in place (at minimum cost) and learn how to use. All we can do from our side is ensure the stream from the ground to Inplayer is strong. We have a good upload connection and speed (I test this before each game). Also I took the decision to stream at 720p (other clubs use full HD 1080p). With 720p the picture may not be as crisp as HD, but is far less likely to pixelate or buffer as there's much less data on the stream. The platform has been pretty robust so far, so fingers crossed it will continue to cope well with increased numbers. Hopefully, and from what we’ve seen so far our streaming service is light years ahead of every other club we’ve played away so far - and from what I gather, light years ahead of some clubs in the league above. Full credit to all involved. |
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Post by chesterblueboy on Dec 6, 2020 16:34:36 GMT
Does anybody wonder whether similar problems might affect us for the bigger games versus York, Hereford, Darlo? With a considerably higher amount of streamers for these games. I don't think any club can be totally confident in the streaming platform they've opted for. It's a new thing for all clubs and there was very little time available to investigate options or to use friendlies for testing. Having made the decision to go with provider Inplayer.. we had less than a week to put the required hardware in place (at minimum cost) and learn how to use. All we can do from our side is ensure the stream from the ground to Inplayer is strong. We have a good upload connection and speed (I test this before each game). Also I took the decision to stream at 720p (other clubs use full HD 1080p). With 720p the picture may not be as crisp as HD, but is far less likely to pixelate or buffer as there's much less data on the stream. The platform has been pretty robust so far, so fingers crossed it will continue to cope well with increased numbers. Mike Many thanks for your thorough but concise explanation (you’ve also explained my only criticism of our coverage is that it is not a crystal clear picture, I watch through a large screen TV, but I now understand as it’s not full HD), however to date our coverage is the only one that has not had problems. I wrote to Kidderminster asking for a full refund but, apart from a initial acknowledgment, I have heard nothing (very much like the majority of the match coverage). Yesterday the coverage was disappointing, even ignoring the result, picture in the 1st half was stuttering, commentary was too quiet and cut off completely for the last 10 mins of the 1st half. 2nd half was initially better but coverage cut out completely for the last 15 mins and had to switch to the Chester audio stream, to follow the end of the game. Not what I’d expect from the biggest club, by some distance, in the division. I too will be writing for a refund, but won’t be holding my breath!! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 17:23:37 GMT
I have emailed and asked for a refund. I can take a bit of a jumpy picture and sound issues but its unacceptable to not be able to view something you paid for. I pay my money and expect to see the full match, not 3 quarters of it and missing the crucial final 15/20 minutes. I expect York will pocket all the money for themselves, im not even sure ive seen a formal apology for such a shite service yesterday. Out of interest who did you email? I had a look at the i4Sports page and couldn't find any contact details, did you email York? I wasn't going to bother asking for a refund but the lack of any acknowledgement of York's failing coupled with the now standard "North Wales" dig has me thinking I might as well kick up a fuss. £7.99 for that service is terrible and to offer no apology is really treating us like mugs pocketing at least several hundred pounds worth of Chester FC fans money. |
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Post by agl on Dec 6, 2020 18:10:04 GMT
I have emailed and asked for a refund. I can take a bit of a jumpy picture and sound issues but its unacceptable to not be able to view something you paid for. I pay my money and expect to see the full match, not 3 quarters of it and missing the crucial final 15/20 minutes. I expect York will pocket all the money for themselves, im not even sure ive seen a formal apology for such a shite service yesterday. Out of interest who did you email? I had a look at the i4Sports page and couldn't find any contact details, did you email York? I wasn't going to bother asking for a refund but the lack of any acknowledgement of York's failing coupled with the now standard "North Wales" dig has me thinking I might as well kick up a fuss. £7.99 for that service is terrible and to offer no apology is really treating us like mugs pocketing at least several hundred pounds worth of Chester FC fans money. Immediately after the game I emailed the York media team. I think on the York website there's also a general inquiries email. As far as I'm concerned they are the responsible party. If I don't hear anything I might follow up in a week or two. |
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Post by Si on Dec 6, 2020 18:24:14 GMT
I have emailed and asked for a refund. I can take a bit of a jumpy picture and sound issues but its unacceptable to not be able to view something you paid for. I pay my money and expect to see the full match, not 3 quarters of it and missing the crucial final 15/20 minutes. I expect York will pocket all the money for themselves, im not even sure ive seen a formal apology for such a shite service yesterday. Out of interest who did you email? I had a look at the i4Sports page and couldn't find any contact details, did you email York? I wasn't going to bother asking for a refund but the lack of any acknowledgement of York's failing coupled with the now standard "North Wales" dig has me thinking I might as well kick up a fuss. £7.99 for that service is terrible and to offer no apology is really treating us like mugs pocketing at least several hundred pounds worth of Chester FC fans money. Yep there is a general enquiries section on their website. As you say, without any apologies to everyone who paid £7.99 for their service (york fans included) then it makes you want to kick up a fuss. Had they come out with a sincere apology and at least acknowledged it I might have just left it but their admin preferred to make jibes about Wales instead....joke of a club. |
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Post by devaboyreturns on Dec 6, 2020 20:11:25 GMT
Full refund requested and chargeback with bank requested also !!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 21:43:18 GMT
This has been posted on the York Website, no mention of it on Social Media. www.yorkcityfootballclub.co.uk/news/club/update-livestream-vs-chester"After internal diagnostics on the Livestream on Saturday afternoon, we are disappointed to report that the streaming provider’s website failed towards the end of the game. We share the frustration with supporters who paid for the service and as a result, we will be considering other hosting options for future games. All customers who purchased a Livestream pass will receive a 25% refund for the last 20 minutes of the game lost. Please allow 5-10 working days for your refund to be processed." Think I'll still push for the full refund. |
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Dec 6, 2020 21:50:33 GMT
That’s fair enough - pro rata refund for the part of the game that was affected.
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Post by agl on Dec 6, 2020 22:08:37 GMT
That’s fair enough - pro rata refund for the part of the game that was affected. Ha, ha not really. If you went to see Titanic at the cinema and missed the boat going down how would you feel? |
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Dec 6, 2020 22:32:00 GMT
That’s fair enough - pro rata refund for the part of the game that was affected. Ha, ha not really. If you went to see Titanic at the cinema and missed the boat going down how would you feel? We’re talking about non league football clubs, not multi-millionaire conglomerates like Cineworld. |
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Post by chesterblueboy on Dec 6, 2020 22:47:05 GMT
Ha, ha not really. If you went to see Titanic at the cinema and missed the boat going down how would you feel? We’re talking about non league football clubs, not multi-millionaire conglomerates like Cineworld. To be fair, I wouldn’t like to see Cineworld’s accounts for this year!! I can see a lot of the big cinema chains going out of business as we have got used to staying in, watching a film on Netflix/Sky/Amazon & ordering a takeaway, much more attractive proposition than going out in the cold and wet for the evening! Back to the point, I feel a bit short changed receiving a couple of quid for poor quality picture in the 1st half, no sound for the last 10 mins of the half then no coverage at all for the vital last 15 mins! |
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Dec 6, 2020 22:51:14 GMT
Yeah fair point.
I can appreciate that you’d definitely need the refund for the complete blackout, but the “poor quality” is just one of those things. We seem to be blessed with the setup we have for our streaming service and are obviously holding all the other clubs to our high standards which is a bit unfair - non-league clubs having to do all this technological production at short notice in unprecedented and harsh economic times.
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Post by devadiva on Dec 8, 2020 10:56:58 GMT
As I posted on the match thread - to be fair, York are doing 25% refunds. I got an email from them this morning.
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Post by oldsealandroadender on Dec 8, 2020 14:40:27 GMT
This has been posted on the York Website, no mention of it on Social Media. www.yorkcityfootballclub.co.uk/news/club/update-livestream-vs-chester"After internal diagnostics on the Livestream on Saturday afternoon, we are disappointed to report that the streaming provider’s website failed towards the end of the game. We share the frustration with supporters who paid for the service and as a result, we will be considering other hosting options for future games. All customers who purchased a Livestream pass will receive a 25% refund for the last 20 minutes of the game lost. Please allow 5-10 working days for your refund to be processed." Think I'll still push for the full refund. Offering automatic partial refund due to the failure of the stream. Why did they not automatically refund the full fee for the postponed fixture if they don't allow it to carry over? Answer - so they can keep your money and hide behind terms and conditions. The whole thing stinks. If they're that desperate for a few extra quid I despair. York City FC will never be getting another penny out of me. Pity as it was always one of the better away days. (p.s. I got engaged in York in 1981 and that relationship broke down as well.) |
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Post by Oaks Blue on Dec 8, 2020 14:51:30 GMT
This has been posted on the York Website, no mention of it on Social Media. www.yorkcityfootballclub.co.uk/news/club/update-livestream-vs-chester"After internal diagnostics on the Livestream on Saturday afternoon, we are disappointed to report that the streaming provider’s website failed towards the end of the game. We share the frustration with supporters who paid for the service and as a result, we will be considering other hosting options for future games. All customers who purchased a Livestream pass will receive a 25% refund for the last 20 minutes of the game lost. Please allow 5-10 working days for your refund to be processed." Think I'll still push for the full refund. Offering automatic partial refund due to the failure of the stream. Why did they not automatically refund the full fee for the postponed fixture if they don't allow it to carry over? Answer - so they can keep your money and hide behind terms and conditions. The whole thing stinks. If they're that desperate for a few extra quid I despair. York City FC will never be getting another penny out of me. Pity as it was always one of the better away days. (p.s. I got engaged in York in 1981 and that relationship broke down as well.) York, like us, use a 3rd party company to provide the streams, in this case it was the 3rd party company at fault as THEIR servers went down with 20 mins to go, so why should York Football Club issue any refund at all? 25% is a fair gesture and its welcome for me. No problem, but you whip up hysteria based on some facts you have no understanding of if it makes you feel happy 👍 |
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Post by Lobster on Dec 8, 2020 15:43:06 GMT
Offering automatic partial refund due to the failure of the stream. Why did they not automatically refund the full fee for the postponed fixture if they don't allow it to carry over? Answer - so they can keep your money and hide behind terms and conditions. The whole thing stinks. If they're that desperate for a few extra quid I despair. York City FC will never be getting another penny out of me. Pity as it was always one of the better away days. (p.s. I got engaged in York in 1981 and that relationship broke down as well.) York, like us, use a 3rd party company to provide the streams, in this case it was the 3rd party company at fault as THEIR servers went down with 20 mins to go, so why should York Football Club issue any refund at all? 25% is a fair gesture and its welcome for me. No problem, but you whip up hysteria based on some facts you have no understanding of if it makes you feel happy 👍 I agree the 25% is fair enough and there's no need to make a song and dance about it, but if there's an issue with something you buy, you'd expect an apology and refund from whoever you bought it from, which in this case is York City FC. In the same way as if you bought a loaf of bread from the supermarket and there was something wrong with it, you'd probably take it back to the shop, not write to Hovis. It's then down to York to chase compensation from the third party company. |
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Post by Oaks Blue on Dec 8, 2020 17:00:44 GMT
York, like us, use a 3rd party company to provide the streams, in this case it was the 3rd party company at fault as THEIR servers went down with 20 mins to go, so why should York Football Club issue any refund at all? 25% is a fair gesture and its welcome for me. No problem, but you whip up hysteria based on some facts you have no understanding of if it makes you feel happy 👍 I agree the 25% is fair enough and there's no need to make a song and dance about it, but if there's an issue with something you buy, you'd expect an apology and refund from whoever you bought it from, which in this case is York City FC. In the same way as if you bought a loaf of bread from the supermarket and there was something wrong with it, you'd probably take it back to the shop, not write to Hovis. It's then down to York to chase compensation from the third party company. Regardless of who it comes from, its the 3rd parties money, not Yorks. Anyway, I thought it was fair enough, all it does is highlight the complete mess football clubs have been forced to deal with in these times. Refusing to give the football club another penny for the rest of your life is his call, but its a slight over-reaction for me! |
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Post by Harry Lime on Dec 8, 2020 17:26:44 GMT
That’s fair enough - pro rata refund for the part of the game that was affected. Ha, ha not really. If you went to see Titanic at the cinema and missed the boat going down how would you feel? Did it sink? Thanks for ruining the ending for me. Haven't seen it yet. |
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Post by agl on Dec 8, 2020 18:13:24 GMT
Ha, ha not really. If you went to see Titanic at the cinema and missed the boat going down how would you feel? Did it sink? Thanks for ruining the ending for me. Haven't seen it yet. Sorry about that Harry...should have posted a spoiler warning.🤣 Was going to mention Apollo 13 as well, so glad I didn't |
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Post by oldsealandroadender on Dec 8, 2020 18:55:11 GMT
Offering automatic partial refund due to the failure of the stream. Why did they not automatically refund the full fee for the postponed fixture if they don't allow it to carry over? Answer - so they can keep your money and hide behind terms and conditions. The whole thing stinks. If they're that desperate for a few extra quid I despair. York City FC will never be getting another penny out of me. Pity as it was always one of the better away days. (p.s. I got engaged in York in 1981 and that relationship broke down as well.) York, like us, use a 3rd party company to provide the streams, in this case it was the 3rd party company at fault as THEIR servers went down with 20 mins to go, so why should York Football Club issue any refund at all? 25% is a fair gesture and its welcome for me. No problem, but you whip up hysteria based on some facts you have no understanding of if it makes you feel happy 👍 I wasn't moaning about the partial refund I was referring to the original stream that didn't happen. At the time of purchase there was no mention that if the game was postponed the fee wouldn't carry over to the rearranged fixture. Nor was the fact that you had to apply for a refund (not done automatically as with the 25%). Nor that you only had 30 days from the original fixture to claim or your fee was donated to York City FC. The club get the money, as the first stream never happened they would not have to pay the provider for it. I do not want to donate anything to York City, I would prefer to put my money into my own club not have it withheld by another entity. How can it be right that they keep the money I paid them for something they did not provide. I consider that to be illegal. Quoting so called terms does not alter the facts. |
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Post by Oaks Blue on Dec 8, 2020 18:57:37 GMT
York, like us, use a 3rd party company to provide the streams, in this case it was the 3rd party company at fault as THEIR servers went down with 20 mins to go, so why should York Football Club issue any refund at all? 25% is a fair gesture and its welcome for me. No problem, but you whip up hysteria based on some facts you have no understanding of if it makes you feel happy 👍 I wasn't moaning about the partial refund I was referring to the original stream that didn't happen. At the time of purchase there was no mention that if the game was postponed the fee wouldn't carry over to the rearranged fixture. Nor was the fact that you had to apply for a refund (not done automatically as with the 25%). Nor that you only had 30 days from the original fixture to claim or your fee was donated to York City FC. The club get the money, as the first stream never happened they would not have to pay the provider for it. I do not want to donate anything to York City, I would prefer to put my money into my own club not have it withheld by another entity. How can it be right that they keep the money I paid them for something they did not provide. I consider that to be illegal. Quoting so called terms does not alter the facts. Fair enough I didnt read the rest of the thread. Put it down to life experience and ensure you get a refund next time. No need for the theatrics and promise never to support chester when they play at York again! |
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