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Post by bryndjones on Jan 18, 2021 18:42:17 GMT
If this happens, the season won’t finish.
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Post by dmcnally on Jan 18, 2021 19:01:29 GMT
It has happened. And the season won’t finish. It can’t unless they want to liquidate half their member clubs.
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Post by superman on Jan 18, 2021 19:24:56 GMT
It is all well and good the NL telling the clubs to canvas the powers that be, what are they going to do? They need to quickly put a list of options to each club by division, based on loans but no grants. No point in waiting and hoping, financial problems are escalating daily. If by being fan owned we are out on a limb and the only club not allowed or prepared to take on debt, I am sure the board will advise us what the short fall is likely to be. Could we fan fund again? Very difficult situation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2021 19:32:53 GMT
An absolute disgrace and this needs to see everyone involved in the National League Board sacked. Made promises they couldn't keep, endangered the very existence of the Non League system. misappropriated public money and distributed it in a manner which it's own review found dishonest. That £10 million of public money from the Lottery utterly wasted. The department of
Digital, Culture, Media and Sport and Oliver Dowden have also have utterly failed Non League Football
On an unrelated note I see NL Board Members, chief beneficiaries of the grant and Oliver Dowden's Club Boreham Wood have just announced another new signing tonight.
Corruption from the top down.
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Post by Si on Jan 18, 2021 19:37:42 GMT
Feel thoroughly demorilised about this. Gutted for our lads who have put themselves at risk all season for what looks like nothing. We all know the National League aren't fit for purpose and that Dowden is bent as anything but saying it over and over feels like pissing in the wind. In reality, nothing we say to our MPs or tweet to news agencies will matter, its all decided by absolute arseholes who don't care about football and the communities it serves. A very worrying night. And yet in the midst of it all Bern and Jonno somehow have to try and motivate the lads to go and freeze their cocks off at Bradford tomorrow for what looks like a potentially pointless game, with the prospect of being furloughed again in their minds and the financial worries that come with it. Still, at least Barwick got his OBE.....
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Post by cityboy5705 on Jan 18, 2021 19:47:19 GMT
Brian barwicks position is now untenable didn't it occur to the nl that even Barry hearn who will take anybody on didn't even want him on the PDC board still he's enjoying his obe
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Post by Oaks Blue on Jan 18, 2021 19:56:34 GMT
Surely the fact our constitution means we can't have loans and we've been cheated out of money last time is exceptional circumstances enough to get us a good grant this time
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Post by Ian H Block on Jan 18, 2021 20:08:11 GMT
‘Exceptional circumstances’ is shorthand for ‘if your local MP is a Tory’.
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dhw
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Post by dhw on Jan 18, 2021 20:08:53 GMT
Surely the fact our constitution means we can't have loans and we've been cheated out of money last time is exceptional circumstances enough to get us a good grant this time I would not bank on it OB. Having seen and been involved in the aftermath of the cash crisis, and seen the excellent efforts by fans in easing funds not just then but more recently over £100k again, I really don’t know how much could be raised now in the current economic climate, and what point would it serve if the season is then curtailed. I’ve no doubt the board will be planning or have planned for all eventualities as this outcome has been the most likely for some time. In all honesty this is the most worried I’ve been for some time in the future of the club. An extra Euro lottery ticket tomorrow I think. |
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Post by Oaks Blue on Jan 18, 2021 20:12:13 GMT
Well, if we can't get a grant then we have to do it ourselves again.
Time for another fundraising campaign
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Post by superman on Jan 18, 2021 20:19:43 GMT
I am of the opinion that the season should be null and void now, staff and players furloughed, and the next season only started when it is guaranteed that full crowds can come back. Mothballing may be necessary. Without knowing how successfully the virus can be controlled even with a very successful vaccine rollout by this September, you could be looking at 2022 before there is real clarity. If there is another winter surge and restrictions reintroduced next year end we could be in a recurring nightmare. The losses and debt within football must be eye watering. How no one has gone to the wall already is amazing.
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Post by waggoner on Jan 18, 2021 21:15:01 GMT
Well, if we can't get a grant then we have to do it ourselves again. Time for another fundraising campaign I like hundreds of others pay a monthly amount in by DD as my part of the £100k we raised at the end of last season. I like others pay for the streaming whenever i can to put some money into the club. But like most others (including the players) my wage has dropped by around 40% since the pandemic hit and another funding push may not be possible for most given millions are at risk of losing their job. This year is the year that all of us are going to suffer. There is no doubt a very deep recession on the way with foodbanks being the supermarket of choice for hundreds of thousands of people. All of Football needs to overhaul it's structure just to make having a club viable. The N/L, N/Ln & s plus all of the leagues below this really need to be looking at their league structuring. Cut costs as much as possible. Taking on £200k+ of loans is not going to help clubs to move forwards. Lots of clubs are going to fold soon and IMO we may be one of them. |
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Post by lincolnexile on Jan 18, 2021 21:53:48 GMT
I know most of us are contributing via DD for the last fundraiser, and the COVID crisis has hit many of us hard, but I can’t see any other way we are going to survive if nothing alters regarding this funding/loan debacle other than to do it again.
I think the board just needs to be straight with us, like they have been all the way through the recent financial problems. We just need to know if we can raise enough to keep things going. If we can’t raise enough then so be it but let’s face it if any set of supporters can come together to keep a club it’s us. But the earlier we know the minimum amount needed the more achievable it will be.
I know board members and members of the management team don’t always like the content of this message board but, however critical, demanding and in some cases downright unreasonable we may be, we all have one thing in common, we love this club and we don’t want to lose it again.
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Post by Harry Lime on Jan 18, 2021 21:57:17 GMT
Some clubs haven't done the league any favours with their funding calls. When you see clubs continue to sign players, then plead poverty, it's hardly surprising there's no hand out grants being made available.
We're closer to all that's gone on than most people. Looking from the outside it's easy to see why they've made the loans offer. The NL committee have effectively threatened the future of their own clubs by their decisions.
I think it's worth us applying for a grant,though. Assuming we'd know the result quickly. We lost out on the original formula. We have players playing for nothing. We can't take loans under our constitution.
Next season is fairly likely to be shortened too. So why don't we just stop now, and then restart the season in August? We don't want most of this to happen again next season. Fans raising £100k to never finish a season can't go on for long. Clubs playing without fairly normal crowds won't last long either.
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Post by chesterken on Jan 18, 2021 22:14:28 GMT
It is a complete mess but while most of the teams have been responsible from the start of this pandemic others have had a boom or bust attitude you can bet that if it comes to a vote to stop the season some teams will still see this as a way to get promoted by voting to carry on even though they know that most teams would be committing financial suicide if they tried to play on.
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Post by yossergolf on Jan 18, 2021 22:16:25 GMT
If we do survive this current health crisis then I wonder what crowds can be expected when normality resumes. There will be a proportion of fans who will have lost the habit of going to a match and may never return. This will be at all clubs at our level and so finances stretched even further. I do worry about survival in the longer term but fully trust the Board to do what is best for our club.
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Post by Churton Blue on Jan 18, 2021 23:11:37 GMT
An absolute disgrace and this needs to see everyone involved in the National League Board sacked. Made promises they couldn't keep, endangered the very existence of the Non League system. misappropriated public money and distributed it in a manner which it's own review found dishonest. That £10 million of public money from the Lottery utterly wasted. The department of Digital, Culture, Media and Sport and Oliver Dowden have also have utterly failed Non League Football On an unrelated note I see NL Board Members, chief beneficiaries of the grant and Oliver Dowden's Club Boreham Wood have just announced another new signing tonight. Corruption from the top down. Signed on an 18 month deal. Financed by money that should have gone to clubs like us. www.borehamwoodfootballclub.co.uk/uncategorized/krystian-values/Feels like Boreham Wood are rubbing peoples noses in it. Oliver Dowden should resign as he should have ensured the October money was distributed on a fair and equitable basis not left it to the National League Board. Sadly he does not know the difference between right and wrong as well as being incompetent. The DCMS and FA conned clubs in to starting the season and are ultimately responsible for this mess. They have shown that they, and the NL Board, are totally untrustworthy and have created one huge mess. |
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Post by Lobster on Jan 18, 2021 23:40:52 GMT
Shower of shite. The government and the NL deserve each other.
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Post by classycas on Jan 19, 2021 0:04:09 GMT
I completely understand why Chester FC was formed with a constitution that prohibits debt or loans, but surely the COVID-19 pandemic is a circumstance that could not be envisaged and warrants a change in constitution.
I’m not advocating completely abolishing the no-debt policy, rather inserting a clause into the club’s constitution allowing it to borrow/receive a grant of up to £100,000 that would allow CFC to complete the 2020/21 NLN season.
This loan/grant could be repaid over a 10-year period at a rough rate of £11,000 per year (in a similar fashion to a domestic mortgage) and would not - in my opinion - have an unduly adverse effect on Chester FC’s long-term financial future.
The debt, of course, could be repaid at a faster rate if the board managed to sell stadium naming rights, website advertising and virtual match and matchball sponsorships for this season’s remaining fixtures.
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Post by Gandalf on Jan 19, 2021 1:00:06 GMT
I completely understand why Chester FC was formed with a constitution that prohibits debt or loans, but surely the COVID-19 pandemic is a circumstance that could not be envisaged and warrants a change in constitution. I’m not advocating completely abolishing the no-debt policy, rather inserting a clause into the club’s constitution allowing it to borrow/receive a grant of up to £100,000 that would allow CFC to complete the 2020/21 NLN season. This loan/grant could be repaid over a 10-year period at a rough rate of £11,000 per year (in a similar fashion to a domestic mortgage) and would not - in my opinion - have an unduly adverse effect on Chester FC’s long-term financial future. The debt, of course, could be repaid at a faster rate if the board managed to sell stadium naming rights, website advertising and virtual match and matchball sponsorships for this season’s remaining fixtures. Nope, no chance. Not when there's no definite answer to when we'll have crowds back or even if the season is able to go on. I think we need a massive push to the powers that be that we either get the grants or something else in place. Downden needs to go and the national League board need to give us legitimate answers as they've put clubs at risk. Along with the disproportionate offerings from the previous grant they could be looking at legal action being taken against them surely. |
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Post by Neil Hunt Nonsense Potter on Jan 19, 2021 7:20:00 GMT
It would be like taking out a mortgage when you dont have a job. Suicide.
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Post by cameandabel on Jan 19, 2021 7:55:57 GMT
Have got the impression that the National League is petrified of jeopardising the two-up status to the EFL (and potentially increasing the numbers going up in future) by bringing the season to a halt. If that is the case, then really hope they will consider the interests of their entire membership and not just the select few. Sadly, it’s hard to have any faith at all in those at the NL helm and the future does not look at all positive.
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Post by Moltisanti on Jan 19, 2021 8:38:03 GMT
Tory scum
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Post by waggoner on Jan 19, 2021 8:43:23 GMT
Have got the impression that the National League is petrified of jeopardising the two-up status to the EFL (and potentially increasing the numbers going up in future) by bringing the season to a halt. If that is the case, then really hope they will consider the interests of their entire membership and not just the select few. Sadly, it’s hard to have any faith at all in those at the NL helm and the future does not look at all positive. The NL seems to be protecting it's own interests. The NLn and NLs seem to be an after thought.. But it's ok. The finance packages given to clubs/leagues cannot go on forever. What does annoy me is the way some clubs in the NL have home gates below 1,000 yet got 80k per month out of the rescue package. Clubs like this must be pissing themselves laughing. They bring in about £30k a month off fans but without fans get nearly 3 times that.I also think that no club should be signing players at the moment. Look at Chesterfield for instance signing as many players as they can...then crying poverty about having no money f@@k@@g stinks it does |
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Post by highpeakblue on Jan 19, 2021 9:09:53 GMT
A reputable institution will only lend to a borrower with the means to repay. How can these be loans?
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Post by Harry Lime on Jan 19, 2021 9:24:27 GMT
It would be like taking out a mortgage when you dont have a job. Suicide. But it might keep a roof over your head until you do get a job. Isn't it more like an unsecured loan than a mortgage? If you go bust before you repay it all they don't take the club/ground. Difficult decisions ahead. I think NLN and NLS should terminate the season immediately. We're only Elite so that the NL could maintain 2 promotion places into the FL. Maybe they're concerned the FL will use this as an opportunity to suspend relegation out of their league. Clubs at all levels just look after themselves, not the game in general. |
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Post by Churton Blue on Jan 19, 2021 9:25:07 GMT
Good article from the Athletic with some well made points.
The National League season is at risk of being called off this week following talks between the league and the Department of Culture, Media and Sport over funding, Jack Pitt-Brooke and Philip Buckingham can reveal.
Mark Ives, the league’s interim general manager, has called a meeting with clubs on Wednesday where he is expected to break the bad news that there will be no more government grant money for the second half of the season.
The majority of clubs in the National League North and South are expected to insist that their seasons cannot continue without extra help, raising the prospect of the seasons being declared void before the half-way point.
What's the problem?
The problem stems from the decision taken by Michael Tattersall, the former National League CEO, to start the season on October 3 without fans. This was a reversal of the initial policy that the 2020-21 season would only take place with fans in the grounds.
Gate receipts make up the vast majority of revenue for National League clubs and while some fans were briefly allowed back for games between the second and third national lockdowns, it was never going to be enough to plug the gap.
In late October the government announced that they would provide £10 million of funding, which the National League could distribute between the clubs. But that money would only last for a few months.
How significant are the financial issues?
There was bitter controversy over how the £10 million of grants was distributed. The National League devised a system whereby the Step 1 clubs would receive £95,000 or £84,000 while the Step 2 clubs would get £36,000 or £30,000.
This prompted a furious response from better supported clubs who had lost far more than that in gate receipts.
There were calls for Brian Barwick’s resignation and former FA chairman David Bernstein wrote an independent report into the process that was never published. National League CEO Michael Tattersall stood down.
But the National League was expecting another tranche of grants from the government, and clubs were crestfallen to learn this week that DCMS now intends on giving them loans rather than grants.
With clubs having no gate income at all during the third national lockdown, many cannot afford to play on with just a loan. That is why they are desperate for a government u-turn.
How much support would ending the season have?
There is plenty of support for ending the season from the National League South and North clubs.
These are clubs who received much less money from the autumn grants, regardless of how well supported they are, and now simply cannot afford to keep on playing.
12 National League North clubs wrote to culture secretary Oliver Dowden asking for grants, rather than loans.
One well-placed source said that he expects “three quarters” of that league to support cancelling the league, with similar positions expected in National League South.
“The vast majority of clubs won’t continue as it is unless grants are provided,” said one source. “We certainly won’t be getting into hundreds of thousands of pounds of debt to finish the season.”
Does this apply to the entire National League structure?
The picture in the National League is less clear with some sources expecting there to be more support for playing on even if there is no government u-turn on grants.
But one National League source said there is a sense of betrayal that they started the season on the assumption that they would either have fans, or government support, and now they are faced with the prospect of having neither.
“We've all done what we were told to do,” he said. “That's the killer. We haven't put ourselves in this position.”
What could happen over the coming days?
The National League is set for a board meeting on Tuesday lunchtime and then they key Zoom meeting with all 67 clubs which will take place on Wednesday morning.
This is when the clubs are expecting to be told that there is no more money, and when the clubs will make their feelings known on the continuation of the season after that.
Some clubs are not expecting to be playing this weekend.
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Post by agl on Jan 19, 2021 10:24:30 GMT
This image says it all.
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Post by Jack on Jan 19, 2021 10:54:28 GMT
Outrageous from the DCMS. They've just acted like snide tories every step of the way.
Gutted for our players and management, who have given so much for the season to be a waste of time. I'm surprised we're even getting on the coach to Bradford.
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Post by Churton Blue on Jan 19, 2021 11:05:49 GMT
This is what was said in the October 19th announcement. Oliver Dowden and Mark Bellingham at the FA need to be reminded of this and held to account. Will help much-loved local teams play this season and allow clubs to continue vital work in their communities
UK Government now working with the National Lottery to ensure similar initiative with Welsh, Scottish and Northern Ireland FAs Government work continues to expedite the safe return of fans in England Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden has today announced that National League football clubs will receive £10 million funding as part of a unique partnership with The National Lottery. The support will benefit the 66 clubs in the fifth and six tiers of English football, so that they can continue to play behind closed doors after the return of fans was paused due to rising infection rates. Alongside the support for clubs, National Lottery players will also get a range of benefits – including free tickets once stadia are safe to reopen, grassroots football opportunities, and VIP experiences at Wembley Stadium. It comes after the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport assured the National League that emergency financial support would be forthcoming so that it was able to start the season earlier this month. All 66 clubs are playing football this season as a result. The £10 million emergency support package, which will reach clubs quickly via the Football Association (FA), is in recognition of the important role National League clubs play in their local areas – being a source of pride to their towns, giving children opportunities to get active, and being at the heart of their communities.
Many clubs and their supporters have also been very active in their areas throughout the pandemic, rallying round to help the elderly and isolated, and raising money for front-line charities.
Oliver Dowden, Culture Secretary, said: I know from a brilliant club in my area that National League football clubs are the beating heart of their communities and too precious to lose. This £10 million fund will provide a bridge to help clubs survive this immediate crisis whilst we work together on the safe return of fans.
I’m very grateful to National Lottery players for getting help to these community clubs so quickly. Nigel Railton, Chief Executive of National Lottery operator Camelot, said: The National Lottery has been making a huge difference to communities across the country for the past 26 years, so we’re delighted to be working with the National League and FA to protect these essential clubs and help them to continue the vital work they carry out in their local communities. Millions of National Lottery players love football, so our partnership will also see them receive a range of great benefits. It’s our way of saying thank you to our players, who make a difference every time they buy a ticket. Mark Bullingham, FA Chief Executive, said: This financial support is crucial as these clubs are the heartbeat of their communities and it would be a travesty if they were not able to survive. We have worked hard with the National League, Government and The National Lottery to make this happen and would like to thank everyone involved.
The return of fans to stadiums remains a priority for us and we will continue to work with the Government and stakeholders across the game to reintroduce spectators in a safe way as soon as possible.
This initiative is with the FA and National League, and the UK Government is now working with the National Lottery to ensure similar initiatives with the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland FAs. Funding will be distributed to each of the 66 National League clubs to help cover their lost gate revenue from the delay to fans being permitted to return, that was originally scheduled for 1 October. The decision was taken to pause this relaxation of the rules on 22 September, in order to stem rising coronavirus infection rates across the country.
Work continues to ensure fans can return to sporting events as soon as the public health picture allows. This includes the Sports Technology Innovation Group (STIG) – made up of medical experts including Deputy Chief Medical Officer Jonathan Van-Tam, sports authorities, and representatives from the tech sector – which is looking at innovative solutions to enable the return of spectators without the need for a coronavirus vaccine. The STIG will make recommendations to the government. Today’s announcement builds on support the government has already given the sport sector to help it stay afloat during this difficult time. Sport England announced a £210 million emergency fund, largely enabled by National Lottery funding, for grassroots clubs, and earlier this year the Government stepped in to protect rugby league with £16 million in emergency loans. These interventions were on top of the multi-billion pound package of business support from the Treasury that enabled many sports clubs to survive, including the furlough scheme and business interruption loan scheme. From 1 November, businesses can claim under the new Job Support Scheme, which has been extended to help those required to close due to coronavirus restrictions, including sports venues. The Government is also working at pace with sports governing bodies and clubs across the country to fully assess what support is needed as a result of the decision to postpone the return of spectators from 1 October.
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