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Post by chesterken on Jun 8, 2021 19:49:38 GMT
How can being against racism have run its course. The fact that knuckle draggers are booing tells you it hasn’t. I don't think he said that being against racism has run it's course, he said that this particular way of tackling it has. Now the morons are hijacking it the time has come to move to another way. Maybe a period of applause before a match in support of the fight against racism would drown them out? Like that idea applause instead of silence.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 8, 2021 20:35:43 GMT
The problem with applause is that it can come across as self-congratulation. When players are experiencing daily racial abuse, what really do we have to clap about?
A bit like how the Clap For Carers gradually began to seem patronising and flippant.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 8, 2021 20:49:15 GMT
Doesn’t matter what they do, there is no form of anti-racism protest that is acceptable to racists. England should keep doing what they’re doing.
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Post by chesterken on Jun 8, 2021 21:33:59 GMT
The problem with applause is that it can come across as self-congratulation. When players are experiencing daily racial abuse, what really do we have to clap about? A bit like how the Clap For Carers gradually began to seem patronising and flippant. If we just stop the people who boo will have won, there is no perfect solution we just need to find one that keeps hammering home the message that racism is just not acceptable.
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Post by Forever Blue on Jun 9, 2021 0:08:57 GMT
I wish someone would take my knee because mine is done, that's old age for you lol
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Post by Forever Blue on Jun 9, 2021 0:33:31 GMT
Sorry but it really annoys me to be perfectly honest, I am not racist and in my mind all lives matter and are important. What winds me up is why the BLM protest and riot in this country when it had nothing to do with us, perhaps the BLM movement would be better focused out on the streets talking and engaging with the gangs every night to stop them stabbing each other ? I guess that is to much like hard work and some ppl just had to much time on there hands in lock down and would rather riot about a thing that happened in the USA, will I take the knee nah not until they get out on the streets and engage every night with the gangs and stop them killing each other first.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 9, 2021 5:23:06 GMT
What, so there’s no racism in the U.K.? Black England players aren’t getting abuse on social media?
Do me a favour.
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Post by Ian H Block on Jun 9, 2021 6:53:43 GMT
Sorry but it really annoys me to be perfectly honest, I am not racist and in my mind all lives matter and are important. What winds me up is why the BLM protest and riot in this country when it had nothing to do with us, perhaps the BLM movement would be better focused out on the streets talking and engaging with the gangs every night to stop them stabbing each other ? I guess that is to much like hard work and some ppl just had to much time on there hands in lock down and would rather riot about a thing that happened in the USA, will I take the knee nah not until they get out on the streets and engage every night with the gangs and stop them killing each other first. This post illustrates exactly why players should continue to take the knee. First there is the obvious contempt for players taking a stand, moving swiftly on to a denial there is a problem with racism in England, then finishing with a nice bit of whatabouttery.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 9, 2021 7:15:49 GMT
Worth pointing out that just a few weeks after the George Floyd incident, a Met Police officer was pictured doing exactly the same thing - putting his knee on a black man's neck, albeit not for nine minutes. He wasn't charged for it either. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56173195
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Post by superman on Jun 9, 2021 8:08:24 GMT
We need to respect the players decision. It is their decision not ours. There remains a need for an ongoing awareness and education campaign around racism. As high profile individuals, and hopefully role models, these top sports people have an important part to play. However the message delivery probably now needs refreshing so that it actively involves all in the stadia. Perhaps if the players faced outwards towards the fans and looked them in the face it would be more engaging and encourage inclusivity.
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Post by Ian H Block on Jun 9, 2021 8:18:37 GMT
Worth pointing out that just a few weeks after the George Floyd incident, a Met Police officer was pictured doing exactly the same thing - putting his knee on a black man's neck, albeit not for nine minutes. He wasn't charged for it either. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56173195Also black people in the U.K. are twice as likely to die in Police custody as white people. An inconvenient truth to those who try to deny there is a problem.
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Post by Wortleyblue on Jun 9, 2021 8:37:22 GMT
Worth pointing out that just a few weeks after the George Floyd incident, a Met Police officer was pictured doing exactly the same thing - putting his knee on a black man's neck, albeit not for nine minutes. He wasn't charged for it either. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56173195Also black people in the U.K. are twice as likely to die in Police custody as white people. An inconvenient truth to those who try to deny there is a problem. In the past 10 years, 163 people have died in police custody in England and Wales according to the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC). Of these 163 deaths: 140 were white, 13 were black and 10 were from other minority groups.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 9, 2021 8:43:20 GMT
Also black people in the U.K. are twice as likely to die in Police custody as white people. An inconvenient truth to those who try to deny there is a problem. In the past 10 years, 163 people have died in police custody in England and Wales according to the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC). Of these 163 deaths: 140 were white, 13 were black and 10 were from other minority groups. That’s true. It’s also true what Ian said - black people are twice as likely to die in police custody. When you compare these figures to how much of the population these groups make up (as measured by the 2011 census), black people are more than twice as likely to die in police custody. You’re both correct. I lifted the above paragraph from the exact same article you got your stats from, by the way.
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Post by Wortleyblue on Jun 9, 2021 8:55:52 GMT
In the past 10 years, 163 people have died in police custody in England and Wales according to the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC). Of these 163 deaths: 140 were white, 13 were black and 10 were from other minority groups. That’s true. It’s also true what Ian said - black people are twice as likely to die in police custody. When you compare these figures to how much of the population these groups make up (as measured by the 2011 census), black people are more than twice as likely to die in police custody. You’re both correct. I lifted the above paragraph from the exact same article you got your stats from, by the way. This was another part of the article from the BBC based on the figures That isn't the only way of looking at the figures. There is a different picture if you look at what proportion of people arrested end up dying in police custody. Deaths in custody and arrests. Based on 164 deaths in custody in ten years to 2018-19. . Of those arrested, 79% were white and 85% of those who died in custody were white. Meanwhile, 9% of people arrested were black (which is disproportionally high) and 8% of those who died in custody were black. So, over the last 10 years, a white individual who has been arrested was about 25% more likely to die in custody than a black individual who had been arrested. I know over the years the Police Force has been historically racist but I believe this is being addressed albeit slowly and a lot more education of Police Officers and indeed the wider population is needed. I am undecided as to whether taking the knee should continue as it appears to be dividing opinion instead of uniting opinion as Superman said in his post a gesture which includes the fans might be the answer.
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Post by spartacus on Jun 9, 2021 9:05:43 GMT
Taking the knee should stop in ,my view it is just virtue signalling. All lives matter and the majority have rights too and one of those is not to constantly preached to . I think this contant barrage of grievence is actually having the opposite effect on folk who previoulsy were more than sympatetic to minority causes.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 9, 2021 9:26:16 GMT
Taking the knee should stop in ,my view it is just virtue signalling. All lives matter and the majority have rights too and one of those is not to constantly preached to . I think this contant barrage of grievence is actually having the opposite effect on folk who previoulsy were more than sympatetic to minority causes. Straight out of the fascists playbook that post.
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Post by The Angry Agenda on Jun 9, 2021 9:26:20 GMT
I don't think the speech Southgate gave the other day has helped matters in regards the attention this is now all getting for the wrong reasons. If England were going to carry on taking the knee then fine just do it, but with Southgate coming out saying what he did all the focus is now on what the reaction will be like at the next match etc... even some of his own players said they were sick of talking about it in press conferences, and they just wanted to focus on the job in hand, yet Southgate has done nothing more than make it the main talking point, and even yesterday the players were still being asked if they think the fans will boo on Sunday.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 9, 2021 9:45:17 GMT
Taking the knee should stop in ,my view it is just virtue signalling. All lives matter and the majority have rights too and one of those is not to constantly preached to . I think this contant barrage of grievence is actually having the opposite effect on folk who previoulsy were more than sympatetic to minority causes. It seems to me anyone saying "all lives matter" hasn't bothered to read or understand the basics of what the movement is all about.
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Post by Ian H Block on Jun 9, 2021 10:03:30 GMT
Taking the knee should stop in ,my view it is just virtue signalling. All lives matter and the majority have rights too and one of those is not to constantly preached to . I think this contant barrage of grievence is actually having the opposite effect on folk who previoulsy were more than sympatetic to minority causes. By calling out virtue signalling aren’t you trying to claim the moral high ground, which in itself is virtue signalling? Not sure about you, but I’d rather signal virtue, than ignorance and hostility.
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Post by Blockhead on Jun 9, 2021 10:07:39 GMT
I think the idea that taking the knee has 'lost it's impact' is proven wrong in threads like this.
The discussions on this thread wouldn't even be taking place if they had already stopped taking the knee. That's the impact.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 9, 2021 10:34:46 GMT
I think the idea that taking the knee has 'lost it's impact' is proven wrong in threads like this. The discussions on this thread wouldn't even be taking place if they had already stopped taking the knee. That's the impact. But is it a positive impact? I think that's up for debate myself.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 9, 2021 10:47:19 GMT
If it outs the racists and those so-called “supporters” who would rather boo and jeer their own team before the match even kicks off that’s at least one good thing to come from it.
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Post by Blockhead on Jun 9, 2021 10:52:53 GMT
I think the idea that taking the knee has 'lost it's impact' is proven wrong in threads like this. The discussions on this thread wouldn't even be taking place if they had already stopped taking the knee. That's the impact. But is it a positive impact? I think that's up for debate myself. Depends on your viewpoint. But how do you solve the issue of racism without open discussion about the topic, and actually identifying those that are part of the problem?
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Post by jimianto on Jun 9, 2021 11:28:57 GMT
Doesn’t matter what they do, there is no form of anti-racism protest that is acceptable to racists. England should keep doing what they’re doing. Although that statement is perfectly true, I think the inference from some people that objecting to the knee makes people 'de-facto' racist is very unfair. We need to remember that the UK is one of the most cosmopolitan, tolerant and diverse places in the world. You would think the way the media hangs on to the issue that we were one of the most hostile.
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Post by Deva Chanter on Jun 9, 2021 11:42:49 GMT
Sorry but it really annoys me to be perfectly honest, I am not racist and in my mind all lives matter and are important. What winds me up is why the BLM protest and riot in this country when it had nothing to do with us, perhaps the BLM movement would be better focused out on the streets talking and engaging with the gangs every night to stop them stabbing each other ? I guess that is to much like hard work and some ppl just had to much time on there hands in lock down and would rather riot about a thing that happened in the USA, will I take the knee nah not until they get out on the streets and engage every night with the gangs and stop them killing each other first. Why does it really annoy you? Why on earth are you putting responsibility on engaging with perpetrators of knife crime and gang violence on Black Lives Matter? What has it got to do with them? Go on, come out and say it with your chest.
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Post by Gandalf on Jun 9, 2021 13:05:15 GMT
I like the fact people are at least discussing this here, I dont see it as a problem myself and feel its down to the individual if they decide to do it. Its highlighting a cause which needs to be looked at as racism is still a massive issue (although admitted in media you will see more extreme cases in the US in comparison to the UK but you do still get it here).
The reason BLM and protests are happening all over the world is because black people throughout history and still to this day will know some sort of discrimination in there life and they dont want to be putting up with anymore. Its not quiet the same but comparable is the stone wall riots and gay rights movements in the 60's and modern day Trans rights which were seeing more of in the media. it just seems people dont want to be discriminated against for being themselves or for things they have no choice in, and rightly so. How long it will stay an effective form of awareness though is a good question.
With Marcus Rashford he got loads of racially abusive tweets after the EL final loss, the guys basically ensured school kids were being fed during the pandemic as the government werent doing enough and got recognised with a MBE. Its well documented he was playing with an injury for about a year, he goes out does his job and is successful whichever way you look at it but people will give him abuse for being mixed race. If i was him id be taking the knee everyday just out of spite until that type of abuse stopped. I cant get my head around it myself, who gets to choose what lifestyle/culture/religion theyre born into? so why give any people a hard time for any of that stuff.
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Post by Moltisanti on Jun 9, 2021 14:59:25 GMT
I like the fact people are at least discussing this here, I dont see it as a problem myself and feel its down to the individual if they decide to do it. Its highlighting a cause which needs to be looked at as racism is still a massive issue (although admitted in media you will see more extreme cases in the US in comparison to the UK but you do still get it here). The reason BLM and protests are happening all over the world is because black people throughout history and still to this day will know some sort of discrimination in there life and they dont want to be putting up with anymore. Its not quiet the same but comparable is the stone wall riots and gay rights movements in the 60's and modern day Trans rights which were seeing more of in the media. it just seems people dont want to be discriminated against for being themselves or for things they have no choice in, and rightly so. How long it will stay an effective form of awareness though is a good question. With Marcus Rashford he got loads of racially abusive tweets after the EL final loss, the guys basically ensured school kids were being fed during the pandemic as the government werent doing enough and got recognised with a MBE. Its well documented he was playing with an injury for about a year, he goes out does his job and is successful whichever way you look at it but people will give him abuse for being mixed race. If i was him id be taking the knee everyday just out of spite until that type of abuse stopped. I cant get my head around it myself, who gets to choose what lifestyle/culture/religion theyre born into? so why give any people a hard time for any of that stuff. The people abusing Rashford are Tories who aren’t happy he humiliated their beloved Conservative Party. Backward fools.
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Post by Neil Hunt Nonsense Potter on Jun 10, 2021 8:25:21 GMT
I like the fact people are at least discussing this here, I dont see it as a problem myself and feel its down to the individual if they decide to do it. Its highlighting a cause which needs to be looked at as racism is still a massive issue (although admitted in media you will see more extreme cases in the US in comparison to the UK but you do still get it here). The reason BLM and protests are happening all over the world is because black people throughout history and still to this day will know some sort of discrimination in there life and they dont want to be putting up with anymore. Its not quiet the same but comparable is the stone wall riots and gay rights movements in the 60's and modern day Trans rights which were seeing more of in the media. it just seems people dont want to be discriminated against for being themselves or for things they have no choice in, and rightly so. How long it will stay an effective form of awareness though is a good question. With Marcus Rashford he got loads of racially abusive tweets after the EL final loss, the guys basically ensured school kids were being fed during the pandemic as the government werent doing enough and got recognised with a MBE. Its well documented he was playing with an injury for about a year, he goes out does his job and is successful whichever way you look at it but people will give him abuse for being mixed race. If i was him id be taking the knee everyday just out of spite until that type of abuse stopped. I cant get my head around it myself, who gets to choose what lifestyle/culture/religion theyre born into? so why give any people a hard time for any of that stuff. The people abusing Rashford are Tories who aren’t happy he humiliated their beloved Conservative Party. Backward fools. And I would bet that those who are trying to deny this issue a platform within this thread read the same newspaper and social media posts that are targetted towards diminishing the obvious power Rashford holds. Rashford is everything the establishment fears. A young intelligent man with humanitarian concerns and a genuine passion for changing the lives of those less fortunate than him in our society. The fact that he is black is only used against him as a tool by those who fear him and his influence. The establishment and racists. Our country is better for him, and for the socially aware generation he is leading. Fuck the haters.
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Post by bagoftricks on Jun 10, 2021 12:42:30 GMT
Support taking the knee especially if you are white. It’s no good turning a blind eye to racism and facists. We have to have positive actions. Call it out and show support to out players of colour.
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Post by Moltisanti on Jun 10, 2021 17:17:55 GMT
The people abusing Rashford are Tories who aren’t happy he humiliated their beloved Conservative Party. Backward fools. And I would bet that those who are trying to deny this issue a platform within this thread read the same newspaper and social media posts that are targetted towards diminishing the obvious power Rashford holds. Rashford is everything the establishment fears. A young intelligent man with humanitarian concerns and a genuine passion for changing the lives of those less fortunate than him in our society. The fact that he is black is only used against him as a tool by those who fear him and his influence. The establishment and racists. Our country is better for him, and for the socially aware generation he is leading. Fuck the haters. Spot on
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