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Post by Lobster on Sept 13, 2021 19:43:39 GMT
Just don't see any point in engaging with this thread any more. Certain people are just not listening. I don't know if they're like this with everything in life that they can't have.
There is no investor to talk of at the moment. If you want to go out try and find one and "sell" the club, make that your project. Constantly slagging off our model and bemoaning our attendances is neither conducive to supporter ownership nor attractive to any investor - it just gets everybody angry and miserable. If you believe the club deserves better then how about taking a bit more pride in what you've got, eh?
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Post by bluey7 on Sept 13, 2021 19:55:09 GMT
unless we let people know that the club needs to be sold we will go nowhere
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Sept 13, 2021 20:27:41 GMT
unless we let people know that the club needs to be sold we will go nowhere Go on then. Get your Yellow Pages out and get calling.
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Post by waggoner on Sept 13, 2021 20:40:27 GMT
Just don't see any point in engaging with this thread any more. Certain people are just not listening. I don't know if they're like this with everything in life that they can't have. There is no investor to talk of at the moment. If you want to go out try and find one and "sell" the club, make that your project. Constantly slagging off our model and bemoaning our attendances is neither conducive to supporter ownership nor attractive to any investor - it just gets everybody angry and miserable. If you believe the club deserves better then how about taking a bit more pride in what you've got, eh? You are entitled to your opinion of course. But there are plenty of people who watch this club, or used to who are not CFU members and never will be. In fact i would suggest that there are more non CFU fans than CFU fans. Whatever way you look at it...most people just want to watch a match, pay their money and go home until the next game. It is all very well keeping on about being proud of the club and getting behind it because you own £15 worth of it thus giving you the right to say 'i own part of my football club'' But it does not stop at that does it? the begging bowls come out every year to keep the club going, and to cap it all the £100k per year raised just gets wasted on crap. look at it this way. Consider the club as a business and a business has customers (fans) who put money into the 'business' for a product (the matchday) IF the product is crap people are not going to buy (the matchday) because the product is shit. And to cap it all the 'owner' then wants the customer to put more money in on top of what they already have to improve said 'product' (the team) because the owners (CFU) bought poor quality tools (the players)...not very appealing is it when you look at it like that? Lets us compare this business with others who also require customers to keep them going...say an eatery in town. People turn up for a product (food) and the food is starting to be poor quality. Said customers either go elsewhere or just don't bother anymore. THEN other customers say ''come on get behind them keep turning up for the food i am sure it will improve'' And to cap it all the owners then say ''it's your fault the foods crap because you are not coming, so we have to buy lower quality produce because of lower cash flow'' This is exactly what quite a lot of people on here say. They blame the fans for not coming and hitting cashflow, thus blaming the fans for the problem. THIS is exactly what Guttermann, Smith and Vaughan used to do, blame the fans for the problem. It is not the 'stay away fans' that is the problem. It is the poor quality of football which is making them stay away, with no real prospect of progression. This is after Hundreds of thousands of pounds raised over the last few years
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Post by waggoner on Sept 13, 2021 20:45:20 GMT
unless we let people know that the club needs to be sold we will go nowhere Go on then. Get your Yellow Pages out and get calling. Bloody hell you are showing your age (:
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Post by Gandalf on Sept 13, 2021 20:46:30 GMT
I’m sick of seeing multiple threads like this as well. So far we’ve seen the ownership, the managers, the players and even the fans questioned just because we’ve had a bad start. (Don’t we tend to have bad runs at Christmas) so what’s the F’ing difference. I know we’ve always had fickle fans but everyone’s seems out to point fingers. Just want the board, managers and teams to ignore all the guff being said and just sort things out on the pitch
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Sept 13, 2021 20:50:43 GMT
Just don't see any point in engaging with this thread any more. Certain people are just not listening. I don't know if they're like this with everything in life that they can't have. There is no investor to talk of at the moment. If you want to go out try and find one and "sell" the club, make that your project. Constantly slagging off our model and bemoaning our attendances is neither conducive to supporter ownership nor attractive to any investor - it just gets everybody angry and miserable. If you believe the club deserves better then how about taking a bit more pride in what you've got, eh? You are entitled to your opinion of course. But there are plenty of people who watch this club, or used to who are not CFU members and never will be. In fact i would suggest that there are more non CFU fans than CFU fans. Whatever way you look at it...most people just want to watch a match, pay their money and go home until the next game. It is all very well keeping on about being proud of the club and getting behind it because you own £15 worth of it thus giving you the right to say 'i own part of my football club'' But it does not stop at that does it? the begging bowls come out every year to keep the club going, and to cap it all the £100k per year raised just gets wasted on crap. look at it this way. Consider the club as a business and a business has customers (fans) who put money into the 'business' for a product (the matchday) IF the product is crap people are not going to buy (the matchday) because the product is shit. And to cap it all the 'owner' then wants the customer to put more money in on top of what they already have to improve said 'product' (the team) because the owners (CFU) bought poor quality tools (the players)...not very appealing is it when you look at it like that? Lets us compare this business with others who also require customers to keep them going...say an eatery in town. People turn up for a product (food) and the food is starting to be poor quality. Said customers either go elsewhere or just don't bother anymore. THEN other customers say ''come on get behind them keep turning up for the food i am sure it will improve'' And to cap it all the owners then say ''it's your fault the foods crap because you are not coming, so we have to buy lower quality produce because of lower cash flow'' This is exactly what quite a lot of people on here say. They blame the fans for not coming and hitting cashflow, thus blaming the fans for the problem. THIS is exactly what Guttermann, Smith and Vaughan used to do, blame the fans for the problem. It is not the 'stay away fans' that is the problem. It is the poor quality of football which is making them stay away, with no real prospect of progression. This is after Hundreds of thousands of pounds raised over the last few years Your analogy doesn’t hold water.
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Post by waggoner on Sept 13, 2021 21:03:24 GMT
You are entitled to your opinion of course. But there are plenty of people who watch this club, or used to who are not CFU members and never will be. In fact i would suggest that there are more non CFU fans than CFU fans. Whatever way you look at it...most people just want to watch a match, pay their money and go home until the next game. It is all very well keeping on about being proud of the club and getting behind it because you own £15 worth of it thus giving you the right to say 'i own part of my football club'' But it does not stop at that does it? the begging bowls come out every year to keep the club going, and to cap it all the £100k per year raised just gets wasted on crap. look at it this way. Consider the club as a business and a business has customers (fans) who put money into the 'business' for a product (the matchday) IF the product is crap people are not going to buy (the matchday) because the product is shit. And to cap it all the 'owner' then wants the customer to put more money in on top of what they already have to improve said 'product' (the team) because the owners (CFU) bought poor quality tools (the players)...not very appealing is it when you look at it like that? Lets us compare this business with others who also require customers to keep them going...say an eatery in town. People turn up for a product (food) and the food is starting to be poor quality. Said customers either go elsewhere or just don't bother anymore. THEN other customers say ''come on get behind them keep turning up for the food i am sure it will improve'' And to cap it all the owners then say ''it's your fault the foods crap because you are not coming, so we have to buy lower quality produce because of lower cash flow'' This is exactly what quite a lot of people on here say. They blame the fans for not coming and hitting cashflow, thus blaming the fans for the problem. THIS is exactly what Guttermann, Smith and Vaughan used to do, blame the fans for the problem. It is not the 'stay away fans' that is the problem. It is the poor quality of football which is making them stay away, with no real prospect of progression. This is after Hundreds of thousands of pounds raised over the last few years Your analogy doesn’t hold water. Really? why not? Because you don't agree with it? or because it makes uncomfortable reading?
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Sept 13, 2021 21:09:38 GMT
Because a football club is nothing like a restaurant.
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Post by waggoner on Sept 13, 2021 21:14:54 GMT
Because a football club is nothing like a restaurant. well if you can't understand the concept of two businesses who both rely on customers to function there's no more to be said really. All businesses who require customers to survive are exactly the same
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Post by tonya on Sept 13, 2021 22:17:04 GMT
Because a football club is nothing like a restaurant. well if you can't understand the concept of two businesses who both rely on customers to function there's no more to be said really. All businesses who require customers to survive are exactly the same Truth in both positions. For fans who don't want to get so immersed in the ownership model and simply watch good football then they would compare us to a business that sells any product and if the product fails consistently to give satisfaction they will go elsewhere or nowhere. For others who wish to be more involved they can put up with the downturns in fortune on the pitch and still give their support. The danger is that those in both categories begin to lose faith albeit the second category though slower to do so, attendances could be so drastically reduced that there would be funding issues that would have drastic impact on the club. There are merits and risks with both models of ownership. Both can work or fail. However why they fail may not be down to the model. We aren't currently failing because of the model because it was working last season. Why we aren't performing is open to discussion and as we all know there are many conflicting viewpoints. We as fans have to wait and see for 4 or 5 games and see where we stand. If the management are struggling and a schism develops between managers and team or managers and supporters-or both- then the board would have to come up with a strategy.
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Post by Deva Chanter on Sept 13, 2021 22:52:17 GMT
So to all those anti CFU believers name me one human being on planet earth who would invest a million or two in our beloved club? If you can't name one person suggest you join CFU? We will never know will we as we don't put the club out there. Instead we are happy sitting back watching NLN football and telling people we don't have the right to be in the football league. We will be playing on Hoole Park before you know it at this rate. It makes me laugh how people say that it is because of these poor results that we are against being fan owned. Our very own fan base on the board nearly messed it up. Pot kettle black. What do we have to 'put out there', exactly? 'Hello Mr/Mrs Investor, Please would you like to come and buy a football club. Actually, you don't even have to buy it because we aren't allowed to 'sell' it - we're just going to gift it to you. It's got a stadium that it doesn't own in an industrial estate on the edge of the city and it's in the same catchment area as Liverpool, Everton, Manchester United and Manchester City. Best Wishes, CFU' The fact is that we don't have anything of much to 'sell' and that therefore means the only people we are going to attract are megalomaniacs or shysters. Why would any sound person pump their own money into the above for no return?
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Post by weareblues on Sept 14, 2021 0:43:01 GMT
We do know. We did know. Club went from crisis to crisis to crisis to dead. And it is exactly poor results that bring out the anti-fan ownership mob. Threads galore after every defeat, no word uttered after a win. We also went from fan owenership to Nearly going bust again...
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Post by weareblues on Sept 14, 2021 0:43:27 GMT
Please tell me where you see the club next 5-10 years under current model? I think this answers itself really. Remember when we reformed? We had a 5 year plan to get back into the conference and a 10 year plan to get into the EFL. In our first years in the Evostick our crowds were around 2,800 average now they average 1500 (and dropping). There is only one way this club is going right now and that's backwards. The average age of the crowds is getting bigger, kids are just not interested in watching football at this level. look around the crowds and observe how many kids are there and the answer is ..not many. The people who want to stay 100% are correct in their view that their model will make sure a club exists. But that is all we are doing, existing. HOWEVER the problem with this is, as crowds dwindle so does the budget. When the budget is lower then so is the quality of player we sign. Hence we play at a lower level and so on! Eventually we will be back in the Evostick league playing in front of 700 fans, is this what people want? we need more money or a backer. WHO? i don't know, but nobody is going to be interested when they read/hear ''we want your money but you can't have control of the club'' it just won't happen. The whole structure of the club has amateur written all over it and it's not going to get better however much people dream otherwise. We need to really have a discussion about where the club sees itself in 5 years because we are going backwards bigtime. Another problem is the squad itself. We have players who could hold their own in the NL, some who are bog standard NLN players, some are nothing better than Evostick standard. We have players who are over the hill x 10 and a couple of youth players who in reality are not ready yet. Why have we got such a mix up of differing level players? well because it's all we can afford. This team has got relegation written all over it and unless we ship some out on loan and get some decent players in we are knackered. So we have a dilemma. We stay as we are and drift backwards into obscurity OR we invite ideas off business people with a view of investing in the club for a % of it. EITHER SENARIO IS NOT RISK FREE Spot on.
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Post by weareblues on Sept 14, 2021 0:47:33 GMT
If the CFU was serious about taking this club places we wouldnt be charging £1 a month to be an owner
Should always have been £5 - £10 per month
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Sept 14, 2021 5:35:00 GMT
If the CFU was serious about taking this club places we wouldnt be charging £1 a month to be an owner Should always have been £5 - £10 per month Bet you wouldn’t pay it though, you’d say it was a rip-off.
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Post by Neil Hunt Nonsense Potter on Sept 14, 2021 5:35:03 GMT
The team wins 6 games on the run and goes top there are 2500 in the ground, its lollipops and cherryade on here and nobody gives a fuck about the model.
We are having a bad run on the pitch. Off it we are debt free and not beholding to any gangster, property developer or fruit loop who wants to build a beach behind the Harry Mac.
The work has started on a training facility and community hub that will bring income to the club, give it a base to grow our presence in the city and surrounding areas and help develop our young fan base.
Weve lost a few games, but we have survived nearly going bust, the building getting flooded and wrecked and COVID to remain debt free and able to fight another day.
There is no white knight available, and if there is EVERYBODY gets to weigh it up and vote on whether THEY think it is right for the future. You wouldn't get that chance under any other ownership model.
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Post by Ian H Block on Sept 14, 2021 6:12:26 GMT
We do know. We did know. Club went from crisis to crisis to crisis to dead. And it is exactly poor results that bring out the anti-fan ownership mob. Threads galore after every defeat, no word uttered after a win. We also went from fan owenership to Nearly going bust again... Are you suggesting we go for Michael owenership?
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Post by agl on Sept 14, 2021 8:11:42 GMT
The team wins 6 games on the run and goes top there are 2500 in the ground, its lollipops and cherryade on here and nobody gives a fuck about the model. We are having a bad run on the pitch. Off it we are debt free and not beholding to any gangster, property developer or fruit loop who wants to build a beach behind the Harry Mac. The work has started on a training facility and community hub that will bring income to the club, give it a base to grow our presence in the city and surrounding areas and help develop our young fan base. Weve lost a few games, but we have survived nearly going bust, the building getting flooded and wrecked and COVID to remain debt free and able to fight another day. There is no white knight available, and if there is EVERYBODY gets to weigh it up and vote on whether THEY think it is right for the future. You wouldn't get that chance under any other ownership model. The reality is that if we did have a private owner and went on a terrible run the knives would be out in exactly the same way. The issue here is not fan ownership, which can sustain a club of our size, but bad results. We can argue that it's a temporary blip and the managers will turn it round or that they are a busted flush who have lost the plot. I've never bought into the cult of Bern and Jonno but given their past record and the upheaval caused by Covid I'm willing to give them time. What puts me off going to matches currently is not the results (been there, done that over the years) but the vile and toxic atmosphere created at games by some so called fans who are all over the team and managers when we win. Save it for the forum or social media. I've never really understood why these morons think spewing bile at their own players is going to motivate them. It gets to the stage when they play with fear and the whole downwards spiral becomes self fulfilling. Likewise the managers might just decide it ain't worth the grief. If I were them I'd be quite shocked at how quickly it's turned. What I would say is that the silent majority are still supportive, but obviously worried by such a poor start and the general lack of direction.
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Post by superman on Sept 14, 2021 8:48:43 GMT
Should the current ownership model fail, that may come about through lack of money, membership falling away significantly, not enough volunteers for board membership and other roles. At the moment the football management and players are rightly getting the flak for the poor performances but it won’t be long before this spills over. As seen on this forum fans are becoming increasingly polarised in their views.
We currently have, in my opinion, a good board of directors. They have done a remarkable job in running and representing our club through a number of years of turmoil. They are, unlike some previous boards, open with the fan base be they members or not. They will I feel be quick to advise us when and if things are becoming untenable. Until that happens they deserve our support. If they collectively walk away we are stuffed. Fan ownership for us has its limitations, and we are probably operating at our true level. That may be unpalatable and unsupportable for some. The challenge now is probably to maintain our current status rather than to have unachievable aspirations. We need to be honest with ourselves. If we stop supporting we may lose the club. If a potentially better ownership scenario, acceptable to the membership, is put forward, then so be it. I have no problem with that. There are no guarantees whatever the ownership model.
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Post by iandychesterfc on Sept 14, 2021 9:19:56 GMT
Should the current ownership model fail, that may come about through lack of money, membership falling away significantly, not enough volunteers for board membership and other roles. At the moment the football management and players are rightly getting the flak for the poor performances but it won’t be long before this spills over. As seen on this forum fans are becoming increasingly polarised in their views. We currently have, in my opinion, a good board of directors. They have done a remarkable job in running and representing our club through a number of years of turmoil. They are, unlike some previous boards, open with the fan base be they members or not. They will I feel be quick to advise us when and if things are becoming untenable. Until that happens they deserve our support. If they collectively walk away we are stuffed. Fan ownership for us has its limitations, and we are probably operating at our true level. That may be unpalatable and unsupportable for some. The challenge now is probably to maintain our current status rather than to have unachievable aspirations. We need to be honest with ourselves. If we stop supporting we may lose the club. If a potentially better ownership scenario, acceptable to the membership, is put forward, then so be it. I have no problem with that. There are no guarantees whatever the ownership model. Seems fairly balanced view which i share. Old hat but when we left the Conference North on the last occasion there were a number of mistakes made which were flagged at the time by many (including posters on this very thread) which were extremely costly to the long-term viability of a fan-owned club. As you say the viability of the club is it's supporters and Chester has a number of significant difficulties in this regards which are again, well rehearsed regards ground location, poor facilities etc etc. What we are seeing now is a decline which was entirely predictable, most recently Telford showed the way it would go when you cannot fund a team that can compete in the National League and they have far superior facilities to Chester. Thats not to say that the club is currently failing by any means, i fully expect it to be able to compete this season in the conference north and may well achieve a play-off spot but this is the limit and will likely continue to be so moving forward. The question is whether the fanbase accepts this and at present, minus some vocal dissenters on here they do. A change of ownership model will only likely come if the attendances drop to a level where it becomes unsustainable. Private ownership does not guarantee instant success but may at least have an effect of rejuvenating a club that is becoming stagnant in its major role. (Community Trust is separate) Of course the other way that happens is a team winning football matches and challenging at the top of the league, where again we come back to patience and belief of the fanbase. I echo the comments above regards the current board and their handling of the club, there is nothing further they can realistically do given the difficulties the club has.
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Post by Matt on Sept 14, 2021 10:03:56 GMT
Fan ownership has it's limits but realistically we're at our level and there's nothing wrong with that. The ridiculous amount of money floating about in the National League is more than some Football League Clubs and until investment is made or unless someone wins the Euro millions we are stuck. At the same time we have to be sustainable and if crowds continue to dwindle then we'll struggle to compete in division 6.
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Post by iandychesterfc on Sept 14, 2021 10:45:35 GMT
Fan ownership has it's limits but realistically we're at our level and there's nothing wrong with that . The ridiculous amount of money floating about in the National League is more than some Football League Clubs and until investment is made or unless someone wins the Euro millions we are stuck. At the same time we have to be sustainable and if crowds continue to dwindle then we'll struggle to compete in division 6. The number of fans that share that view will be key moving forward for the reasons you noted in your final sentence.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Sept 14, 2021 11:17:35 GMT
Maximise commercial activity as best we can with a volunteer board and no paid commercial manager, following a pandemic that has hit all kinds of businesses.
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Post by weareblues on Sept 14, 2021 12:48:01 GMT
If the CFU was serious about taking this club places we wouldnt be charging £1 a month to be an owner Should always have been £5 - £10 per month Bet you wouldn’t pay it though, you’d say it was a rip-off. Ironic from someone who loves the CFU that much he only became a member about a year ago🤣
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Sept 14, 2021 13:04:46 GMT
Been an on/off member right from the start, only ever “off” because I just plumb never got round to renewing at the time, for my sins.
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Post by weareblues on Sept 14, 2021 13:07:23 GMT
Been an on/off member right from the start, only ever “off” because I just plumb never got round to renewing at the time, for my sins. So don’t make comments like that then 😂
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Post by bluejay on Sept 14, 2021 17:29:35 GMT
Because a football club is nothing like a restaurant. well if you can't understand the concept of two businesses who both rely on customers to function there's no more to be said really. All businesses who require customers to survive are exactly the same Because more than 2 businesses a year can be successful. In football, only 10% or so of clubs can get promoted in any given season. All clubs in a division can be run brilliantly but some still have to be relegated. My dad never took me to Frankie and Benny's every other Saturday for years and I didn't have some of the most exciting moments of my life there either. I don't see old friends and loads of familiar faces when I go to Frankie and Benny's and loads of people who've known me over the years don't remember me when they hear about Frankie and Benny's. There are some ways that football clubs are like other businesses, but plenty of ways they're not
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Post by weareblues on Sept 14, 2021 17:50:48 GMT
Anyone know what we’re gonna do next season when we don’t raise anywhere near 100k and we’re in the northern premier league ?
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Post by highpeakblue on Sept 14, 2021 18:11:36 GMT
well if you can't understand the concept of two businesses who both rely on customers to function there's no more to be said really. All businesses who require customers to survive are exactly the same Because more than 2 businesses a year can be successful. In football, only 10% or so of clubs can get promoted in any given season. All clubs in a division can be run brilliantly but some still have to be relegated. My dad never took me to Frankie and Benny's every other Saturday for years and I didn't have some of the most exciting moments of my life there either. I don't see old friends and loads of familiar faces when I go to Frankie and Benny's and loads of people who've known me over the years don't remember me when they hear about Frankie and Benny's. There are some ways that football clubs are like other businesses, but plenty of ways they're not And you don't go to Frankie and Benny's to appreciate the chefs. Not that I go to Chester expecting quality football. If I get some I really enjoy the moment. I enjoy the tension, the anticipation and sometimes the surprise at not being disappointed. You can take or leave a restaurant, if that is how you feel about your football club then maybe it isn't your football club, it is just a commodity. Maybe that it is how it is for some, but I'm not really interested in any other football club.
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