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Post by midfieldgeneral on Nov 29, 2022 8:12:48 GMT
Has Starmer joined the European Research Group?
Sick of his ' Make Brexit work BS. If I wanted a Hard Brexit I would vote Tory,.
After a lifetime of voting Labour, I am voting Green in the Chester By Election and loads more progressives are doing the same.
Does he not realise that by chasing the Red Wall vote , he is alienating his main base of support?
Either he is incompetent or a Tory plant.
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Post by Lobster on Nov 29, 2022 11:58:30 GMT
It will be interesting to see how this by-election goes. Really anything less than an increased Labour majority should be a concern to the party.
I'm still in the "hold your nose and vote for Labour" camp, I'm afraid.
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Post by Curva Nord on Nov 29, 2022 21:10:22 GMT
Votes now split between Labour and Green will make for an easy Conservative win
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Post by iandychesterfc on Nov 30, 2022 16:08:44 GMT
highly unlikely imo. even conservatives think the seat is unwinnable.
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Post by Curva Nord on Nov 30, 2022 17:26:41 GMT
Would Labour even want to be in charge? I'm guessing the UK is in that much of a mess. Why would you want to get elected and unfuck the situation. You only get four years to do it, and it won't be possible. The MPs get their £70k a year if they're in power or not. Easier not to be in power
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Post by Firestick Frank on Nov 30, 2022 22:25:30 GMT
Wouldn’t make a difference anyway.
Sam Dixon is a proper Chester person who has done a lot for the city and of course the football club. It’s just a shame her party is an absolute shitshow. I’d be voting Greens from now on
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Post by Si on Dec 1, 2022 12:08:21 GMT
Wouldn’t make a difference anyway. Sam Dixon is a proper Chester person who has done a lot for the city and of course the football club. It’s just a shame her party is an absolute shitshow. I’d be voting Greens from now on A vote for Greens is effectively a vote for Tory. Wouldn't you rather a version of Labour that you might not fully agree with than a Tory government that are total fuck ups? |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 1, 2022 12:29:53 GMT
Wouldn’t make a difference anyway. Sam Dixon is a proper Chester person who has done a lot for the city and of course the football club. It’s just a shame her party is an absolute shitshow. I’d be voting Greens from now on A vote for Greens is effectively a vote for Tory. Wouldn't you rather a version of Labour that you might not fully agree with than a Tory government that are total fuck ups? Would rather Labour lost the complacency of expecting people to vote for them when they offer nothing, just to keep the Tories out. |
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Post by Si on Dec 1, 2022 12:38:55 GMT
A vote for Greens is effectively a vote for Tory. Wouldn't you rather a version of Labour that you might not fully agree with than a Tory government that are total fuck ups? Would rather Labour lost the complacency of expecting people to vote for them when they offer nothing, just to keep the Tories out. Fair enough, so as things stand if you had to choose between a Tory and Labour government then you'd choose Tory. Interesting. |
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Post by Lobster on Dec 1, 2022 12:56:56 GMT
I'm with you I'm afraid Si.
I think we have to accept that we're in a state at the moment where change has to be gradual. Get a better party in power to start with and worry about the leader later.
I also think if you like the local MP, you should vote for them even if you don't like their party's leader. I actually think you should be thinking more about your MP than the prime minister when you vote.
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Post by Moltisanti on Dec 2, 2022 6:53:37 GMT
Labour landslide in Chester by election. Love it.
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 2, 2022 8:31:26 GMT
Would rather Labour lost the complacency of expecting people to vote for them when they offer nothing, just to keep the Tories out. Fair enough, so as things stand if you had to choose between a Tory and Labour government then you'd choose Tory. Interesting. So would you by the sounds of it. Tory or Tory with a mask isn’t it really? Glad Samantha Dixon won by a huge margin, she’s a fantastic local politician. |
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Post by Lobster on Dec 2, 2022 8:43:54 GMT
That's a battering for the Tories in a seat that has traditionally been closely contested. Bit sad that only 40% could be bothered voting.
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Post by Si on Dec 2, 2022 9:17:54 GMT
Fair enough, so as things stand if you had to choose between a Tory and Labour government then you'd choose Tory. Interesting. So would you by the sounds of it. Tory or Tory with a mask isn’t it really? Glad Samantha Dixon won by a huge margin, she’s a fantastic local politician. Not at all. I'd vote Labour every time ahead of Tory. |
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Post by Curva Nord on Dec 2, 2022 11:30:25 GMT
That's a battering for the Tories in a seat that has traditionally been closely contested. Bit sad that only 40% could be bothered voting. They're all self serving arseholes on 70k a year. |
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Post by Lobster on Dec 2, 2022 12:39:38 GMT
That's a battering for the Tories in a seat that has traditionally been closely contested. Bit sad that only 40% could be bothered voting. They're all self serving arseholes on 70k a year. Spoil your ballot then. |
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Post by Curva Nord on Dec 2, 2022 12:56:58 GMT
They're all self serving arseholes on 70k a year. Spoil your ballot then. Why bother? It is a no vote either way. Like they care about that, they still get paid either way |
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Post by borussiachester on Dec 3, 2022 0:41:41 GMT
Interesting to see the Greens win just 787 votes and only very marginally increase their vote share from 2019, despite some seemingly relishing the prospect of them taking away precious Labour votes.
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 3, 2022 21:47:41 GMT
So would you by the sounds of it. Tory or Tory with a mask isn’t it really? Glad Samantha Dixon won by a huge margin, she’s a fantastic local politician. Not at all. I'd vote Labour every time ahead of Tory. Think you missed my point. |
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Post by Si on Dec 4, 2022 8:10:33 GMT
Not at all. I'd vote Labour every time ahead of Tory. Think you missed my point. What was your point? We established you would rather a Tory government in charge than the Labour government currently which you feel have a Tory mask on. I feel differently and would rather Labour have a go at it. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 4, 2022 8:49:17 GMT
Point is either way you get the same polices.
Didn’t say I’d rather a Tory government than Tory with a Labour mask on at all. I meant what’s the point in the Labour mask - you may as well not bother voting. All the same isn’t it? Voting in a different colour to implement everything we’ve already got and not change anything is a waste of time.
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 4, 2022 8:59:55 GMT
You’re not “getting the Tories out” if you’re just swapping the colour, you’re going round in circles like fools. Keep ticking your little box if you feel it makes a difference.
Greens or Plaid for me until Welsh Labour become independent of U.K. Labour.
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Post by Lobster on Dec 4, 2022 19:00:45 GMT
You’re not “getting the Tories out” if you’re just swapping the colour, you’re going round in circles like fools. Keep ticking your little box if you feel it makes a difference. Greens or Plaid for me until Welsh Labour become independent of U.K. Labour. Your argument would make more sense if we had a presidential system like in the US, but you're not voting for the PM here, you're voting for your local MP, who you've indicated you support, so I'm surprised you would let your dislike of the Labour Party leader supercede that. I'm not happy about the situation, but I'm realistic about what can be done. We're too immature as a country right now to elect a left-leaning PM so a Tory-leaning Labour is at least a little better than plain Tories. Since the Tories came into power they've had five PMs, all arguably going further to the right. I'm hoping the same could happen to the left if Labour get in. It will be gradual but Starmer won't be leading them forever. Not that I'm trying to tell you who to vote for. If you can't stomach it and would rather vote Green or Plaid, I can sympathise with that, but I think your logic is slightly flawed and I don't think it's helpful to belittle people who ultimately want change just as much as you do. |
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Post by Lobster on Dec 9, 2022 22:18:16 GMT
A loosening of banking regulations. That's going to end well.
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Post by Pseudoscally on Dec 12, 2022 18:21:27 GMT
You’re not “getting the Tories out” if you’re just swapping the colour, you’re going round in circles like fools. Keep ticking your little box if you feel it makes a difference. Greens or Plaid for me until Welsh Labour become independent of U.K. Labour. Your argument would make more sense if we had a presidential system like in the US, but you're not voting for the PM here, you're voting for your local MP, who you've indicated you support, so I'm surprised you would let your dislike of the Labour Party leader supercede that. I'm not happy about the situation, but I'm realistic about what can be done. We're too immature as a country right now to elect a left-leaning PM so a Tory-leaning Labour is at least a little better than plain Tories. Since the Tories came into power they've had five PMs, all arguably going further to the right. I'm hoping the same could happen to the left if Labour get in. It will be gradual but Starmer won't be leading them forever. Not that I'm trying to tell you who to vote for. If you can't stomach it and would rather vote Green or Plaid, I can sympathise with that, but I think your logic is slightly flawed and I don't think it's helpful to belittle people who ultimately want change just as much as you do. I have sympathy with Frank's view on this. Let's not forget that many of Labours own MP's preferred a Tory government to a JC led Labour in 2019 to the extent that they sabotaged their own election campaign. I'll never forget Stephen Kinnock's face when the results from the 2017 election came in. In general, I'm against tactical voting. I want to vote positively for a candidate/party who I broadly agree with their policies rather than voting to try to stop another getting in to power. For the first time in 2017 and 2019 I could do that with confidence. When you vote for someone then you are endorsing them and their policies, you are giving them mandate to represent you in parliament. There's no way I could do that with the current Labour Party. |
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Post by 1paulcarden on Dec 16, 2022 18:40:06 GMT
Point is either way you get the same polices. Didn’t say I’d rather a Tory government than Tory with a Labour mask on at all. I meant what’s the point in the Labour mask - you may as well not bother voting. All the same isn’t it? Voting in a different colour to implement everything we’ve already got and not change anything is a waste of time. Disingenuous shite. Mantrot would rather purity and an 80 seat Tory majority than even the possibility of seeing what a Labour government could do. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 16, 2022 20:29:00 GMT
Point is either way you get the same polices. Didn’t say I’d rather a Tory government than Tory with a Labour mask on at all. I meant what’s the point in the Labour mask - you may as well not bother voting. All the same isn’t it? Voting in a different colour to implement everything we’ve already got and not change anything is a waste of time. Disingenuous shite. Mantrot would rather purity and an 80 seat Tory majority than even the possibility of seeing what a Labour government could do. We know what a Starmer government would do. It’s in how it acts now… they’d change nothing. If the leader of the Labour Party cannot show their support to working people then why should Labour expect support from working people? |
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Post by 1paulcarden on Dec 17, 2022 10:13:31 GMT
Disingenuous shite. Mantrot would rather purity and an 80 seat Tory majority than even the possibility of seeing what a Labour government could do. We know what a Starmer government would do. It’s in how it acts now… they’d change nothing. If the leader of the Labour Party cannot show their support to working people then why should Labour expect support from working people? Which newspapers would be pleased to have a Labour government? |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 22, 2022 9:00:22 GMT
Everybody knows my contempt for the Tory bastards, but picking fights with nurses and ambulance workers is truly a new disgusting low.
And not supporting the actions of those nurses and ambulance workers is just as bad, Starmer.
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Post by Si on Dec 22, 2022 9:22:47 GMT
Still comes back to one thing.....you either get Tory or Labour in charge so you vote for which one you'd prefer (or not vote at all). Surely most will be opting for Labour regardless of their views on Starmer, otherwise by voting for someone else you are effectively voting in Tory so don't bother moaning about them if that happens at the next election 🤷♂️
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