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Meeting?
Aug 21, 2017 17:04:49 GMT
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Post by spencerwhelanleftpeg on Aug 21, 2017 17:04:49 GMT
Does anybody know if any meetings/discussions have taken place today.
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Post by billyw on Aug 21, 2017 17:07:03 GMT
Does anybody know if any meetings/discussions have taken place today. I had a discussion with my wife if that's any help  |
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Post by tarvinblue on Aug 21, 2017 17:10:44 GMT
Does anybody know if any meetings/discussions have taken place today. Dave Powell from The Chronicle says all is quiet from the club. Nothing has been heard in either direction. Not unexpected if we are honest. I believe he's going to be given another 6 or 7 games, yet. Most people's target for the opening 10 games was 12/13 points - we have 3 from 4. Means he needs 9/10 points from the following fixtures - Aldershot (A), Macclesfield (H), Ebbsfleet (H), Solihull (A), Torquay (A), Dover (A). I reckon if he's not close to the target after that we might see a change. 3 wins and a draw from those 6 is a big ask - Macclesfield, Torquay and Solihull are the key games. |
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Post by btb on Aug 21, 2017 17:16:23 GMT
It wouldn't be half as bad if the club and the manager actually acknowledged that the home form is a disgrace. A lot of people came out and supported the club over the summer by buying season tickets. You get the feeling that will never happen again. As I've said in another post this manager has completely sucked the life out of the club. Watching him clapping like a seal on the touch line on Saturday brought back awful memories of a certain Terry Smith. That is how bad it has got down there.
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Post by spencerwhelanleftpeg on Aug 21, 2017 17:28:42 GMT
Billy bless ya hope it was a productive one?
Tarvin thanks for your post. Ok personally I'd of liked some action to be taken on the basis of the entirety of this year.
Aldershot you can forget you'd of thought. Those 3 games you talk about are all back to back starting next Monday with Macc. I watched moors v Halifax on Saturday. They have some pace on the side but what seemed little other ability. If we can stop carter trying to dictate the game then it will be disappointing if we don't beat them.
Still I struggle to see how we can carry on with 1600 gates with JM hell bent on trying to avoid entertainment.
The crowd against Macc on a bank holiday Monday will be interesting as well
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Post by billyw on Aug 21, 2017 18:04:00 GMT
Does anybody know if any meetings/discussions have taken place today. Not quite what you had in mind but I've just received an e mail reminding me of the AGM on 5 October and applications for a place on the Board must be in by this Friday. |
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Meeting?
Aug 21, 2017 18:07:01 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Aug 21, 2017 18:07:01 GMT
Anybody standing on a "McCarthy Out" ticket? x
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Post by Pseudoscally on Aug 21, 2017 18:19:56 GMT
Anybody standing on a "McCarthy Out" ticket? x Unfortunately it'll be too late by October but I'll second you if you like... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 18:35:23 GMT
problem is Jon thinks there is nothing wrong he's not all interested with our winless home form as long as we are winning away he dont really care
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Alan
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Post by Alan on Aug 21, 2017 19:45:35 GMT
Anybody standing on a "McCarthy Out" ticket? x I am still waiting for you to call an EGM. I assume you are a CFU member, Nathan. |
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Meeting?
Aug 21, 2017 20:00:54 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Aug 21, 2017 20:00:54 GMT
I never claimed I'd call an EGM, I merely suggested that as an option of any CFU member wished to do so given the level of feeling about the predicament we find ourselves in.
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Alan
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Post by Alan on Aug 21, 2017 20:02:17 GMT
I never claimed I'd call an EGM, I merely suggested that as an option of any CFU member wished to do so given the level of feeling about the predicament we find ourselves in. If you are suggesting it, and if you are indeed a registered CFU member, why wait for others to do it? |
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Post by Pseudoscally on Aug 21, 2017 20:20:06 GMT
I never claimed I'd call an EGM, I merely suggested that as an option of any CFU member wished to do so given the level of feeling about the predicament we find ourselves in. If you are suggesting it, and if you are indeed a registered CFU member, why wait for others to do it? As you know Alan and as I've said on another thread, you need at least 5% of the membership to back a special general meeting. If there were that number of CFU members willing to back the motion then I'd happily call it. |
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Alan
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Post by Alan on Aug 21, 2017 20:48:21 GMT
If you are suggesting it, and if you are indeed a registered CFU member, why wait for others to do it? As you know Alan and as I've said on another thread, you need at least 5% of the membership to back a special general meeting. If there were that number of CFU members willing to back the motion then I'd happily call it. Quite right Pseudoscally and where else other than a supporter owned club do others have the right for such a motion to be proposed. Do I think an EGM is required for the sacking of a Manager? No, I don't. When I was on the board, did I, as longterm supporter, owner and board member see that results under Steve Burr were not good enough? Yes I did. Did I see and read the general feeling from other supporters? Yes I did. Being on the board is no win. If we are top of the league, the Manager and his players get all of the praise. Things go wrong, then the board are in the firing line. The board right now need the support of all supporters, but to start calling EGMs when results aren't going our way defies the very point of appointing and trusting individuals to make the right decisions for the benefit of the football club and its supporters. I trust those on the board to do what's right. It's easy to sit in front of our computers and say we would do this or that, the reality is very different. |
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Post by whopper3 on Aug 21, 2017 21:06:49 GMT
McCarthy is simply incompetent.
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Post by Pseudoscally on Aug 21, 2017 21:19:25 GMT
As you know Alan and as I've said on another thread, you need at least 5% of the membership to back a special general meeting. If there were that number of CFU members willing to back the motion then I'd happily call it. . Do I think an EGM is required for the sacking of a Manager? No, I don't. When I was on the board, did I, as longterm supporter, owner and board member see that results under Steve Burr were not good enough? Yes I did. Did I see and read the general feeling from other supporters? Yes I did. Being on the board is no win. If we are top of the league, the Manager and his players get all of the praise. Things go wrong, then the board are in the firing line. The board right now need the support of all supporters, but to start calling EGMs when results aren't going our way defies the very point of appointing and trusting individuals to make the right decisions for the benefit of the football club and its supporters. I trust those on the board to do what's right. It's easy to sit in front of our computers and say we would do this or that, the reality is very different. A point I made in another thread.
Calling an EGM shouldn't be viewed by the board as negatively as it sounds. It could also be used to affirm a decision making process that may well already be taking place. The point is, as supporters we do not know if the board are considering removing JM as manager and I guess quite rightly. My concern is that if we wait too long then and I think 10 games is too long unless we win the next 3 in a row.
If enough CFU members want JM removed then we have to power to do it.
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Post by btb on Aug 21, 2017 21:20:22 GMT
As you know Alan and as I've said on another thread, you need at least 5% of the membership to back a special general meeting. If there were that number of CFU members willing to back the motion then I'd happily call it. Quite right Pseudoscally and where else other than a supporter owned club do others have the right for such a motion to be proposed. Do I think an EGM is required for the sacking of a Manager? No, I don't. When I was on the board, did I, as longterm supporter, owner and board member see that results under Steve Burr were not good enough? Yes I did. Did I see and read the general feeling from other supporters? Yes I did. Being on the board is no win. If we are top of the league, the Manager and his players get all of the praise. Things go wrong, then the board are in the firing line. The board right now need the support of all supporters, but to start calling EGMs when results aren't going our way defies the very point of appointing and trusting individuals to make the right decisions for the benefit of the football club and its supporters. I trust those on the board to do what's right. It's easy to sit in front of our computers and say we would do this or that, the reality is very different. Where as I completley respect every person on the board for their hardwork and placing themselves in to the firing line and as you say a no win situation, they are still accountable. A two year contract was given to the manager and whilst I did raise my eyebrows I completely understood the reasoning behind it and it is now in the past. The second half of last season was awful but a decision was made to stick with the manager and not only that but he was given the best budget since reform. Personally I think the squad is better than last year but it stands out a country mile that the managers tactics and set up is confusing everybody. We even have him blaming the forwards for not defending as he wanted them to do. We have 11 men defending corners and yet there are still unmarked opponents. It's an absolute shambles. So of course the board have to be questioned. |
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Alan
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Post by Alan on Aug 21, 2017 21:27:45 GMT
Quite right Pseudoscally and where else other than a supporter owned club do others have the right for such a motion to be proposed. Do I think an EGM is required for the sacking of a Manager? No, I don't. When I was on the board, did I, as longterm supporter, owner and board member see that results under Steve Burr were not good enough? Yes I did. Did I see and read the general feeling from other supporters? Yes I did. Being on the board is no win. If we are top of the league, the Manager and his players get all of the praise. Things go wrong, then the board are in the firing line. The board right now need the support of all supporters, but to start calling EGMs when results aren't going our way defies the very point of appointing and trusting individuals to make the right decisions for the benefit of the football club and its supporters. I trust those on the board to do what's right. It's easy to sit in front of our computers and say we would do this or that, the reality is very different. A point I made in another thread.
Calling an EGM shouldn't be viewed by the board as negatively as it sounds. It could also be used to affirm a decision making process that may well already be taking place. The point is, as supporters we do not know if the board are considering removing JM as manager and I guess quite rightly. My concern is that if we wait too long then and I think 10 games is too long unless we win the next 3 in a row.
If enough CFU members want JM removed then we have to power to do it.
If the board are currently in conversation, and I fully expect conversations from all levels to have been had, I just think by calling EGM's it just confuses and antagonises the situation. As a club, we have monthly CFU meetings where the very question you are proposing can be asked. If the answer is not satisfactory, then perhaps the next step is required. As it is, I just can't help but feeling that we have been in far worse situations and those situations have always been dealt with when required by the elected board members. Let's not forget, we are talking about somebody under contract losing their job; constructive dismissal could be something that is seen if there is a pack mentality. Let's trust the board to do the things the right way. We are only four games into the season, with three points on the board and one defeat. The board will know what needs to be done if required. |
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Alan
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Post by Alan on Aug 21, 2017 21:34:14 GMT
Quite right Pseudoscally and where else other than a supporter owned club do others have the right for such a motion to be proposed. Do I think an EGM is required for the sacking of a Manager? No, I don't. When I was on the board, did I, as longterm supporter, owner and board member see that results under Steve Burr were not good enough? Yes I did. Did I see and read the general feeling from other supporters? Yes I did. Being on the board is no win. If we are top of the league, the Manager and his players get all of the praise. Things go wrong, then the board are in the firing line. The board right now need the support of all supporters, but to start calling EGMs when results aren't going our way defies the very point of appointing and trusting individuals to make the right decisions for the benefit of the football club and its supporters. I trust those on the board to do what's right. It's easy to sit in front of our computers and say we would do this or that, the reality is very different. Where as I completley respect every person on the board for their hardwork and placing themselves in to the firing line and as you say a no win situation, they are still accountable. A two year contract was given to the manager and whilst I did raise my eyebrows I completely understood the reasoning behind it and it is now in the past. The second half of last season was awful but a decision was made to stick with the manager and not only that but he was given the best budget since reform. Personally I think the squad is better than last year but it stands out a country mile that the managers tactics and set up is confusing everybody. We even have him blaming the forwards for not defending as he wanted them to do. We have 11 men defending corners and yet there are still unmarked opponents. It's an absolute shambles. So of course the board have to be questioned. The board gave Jon a contract as at the time there was a club rumoured to be looking at him given our excellent form at the time. Two years for a Manager should be the norm for continuity and growth, with some clubs even at this level giving their Manager's five year contracts. A Manager will have certain criteria within that contract they are bonused/targeted on, much like many of us in our own jobs. If Jon had been poached, there would have been uproar. Fact. The board are very much in between a rock and hard place when it comes to decision making, and without the ability to throw money at problems, they have to take the undeserved flack that comes their way. At Chester, the board have always prided themselves on not interfering in team affairs and how the Manager deals with his players. As we have seen historically though, if the board see that things aren't walking they will make a decision to see the issues changed. To blame the board for the way Macca sets up is grossly unfair though. |
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Post by Pseudoscally on Aug 21, 2017 21:37:57 GMT
A point I made in another thread.
Calling an EGM shouldn't be viewed by the board as negatively as it sounds. It could also be used to affirm a decision making process that may well already be taking place. The point is, as supporters we do not know if the board are considering removing JM as manager and I guess quite rightly. My concern is that if we wait too long then and I think 10 games is too long unless we win the next 3 in a row.
If enough CFU members want JM removed then we have to power to do it.
If the board are currently in conversation, and I fully expect conversations from all levels to have been had, I just think by calling EGM's it just confuses and antagonises the situation. As a club, we have monthly CFU meetings where the very question you are proposing can be asked. If the answer is not satisfactory, then perhaps the next step is required. As it is, I just can't help but feeling that we have been in far worse situations and those situations have always been dealt with when required by the elected board members. Let's not forget, we are talking about somebody under contract losing their job; constructive dismissal could be something that is seen if there is a pack mentality. Let's trust the board to do the things the right way. We are only four games into the season, with three points on the board and one defeat. The board will know what needs to be done if required. I have to respectfully disagree. An EGM to propose a vote of no confidence in JM as 1st team manager is far from confusing, it's quite precise and unambiguous in it's wording. If it antagonises anyone on the board of directors then I would respectively ask them to step down immediately.
As I said, it needs to be viewed as a positive thing that the fans back the directors in a move they may well be looking at making anyway.
I carefully did not mention JM losing his job completely. I'm sure he still has a great deal to give to CFC should he so wish but unfortunately his place as 1st team manager has become untenable.
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Post by tarvinblue on Aug 21, 2017 21:46:31 GMT
If the board are currently in conversation, and I fully expect conversations from all levels to have been had, I just think by calling EGM's it just confuses and antagonises the situation. As a club, we have monthly CFU meetings where the very question you are proposing can be asked. If the answer is not satisfactory, then perhaps the next step is required. As it is, I just can't help but feeling that we have been in far worse situations and those situations have always been dealt with when required by the elected board members. Let's not forget, we are talking about somebody under contract losing their job; constructive dismissal could be something that is seen if there is a pack mentality. Let's trust the board to do the things the right way. We are only four games into the season, with three points on the board and one defeat. The board will know what needs to be done if required. I have to respectfully disagree. An EGM to propose a vote of no confidence in JM as 1st team manager is far from confusing, it's quite precise and unambiguous in it's wording. If it antagonises anyone on the board of directors then I would respectively ask them to step down immediately.
As I said, it needs to be viewed as a positive thing that the fans back the directors in a move they may well be looking at making anyway.
I carefully did not mention JM losing his job completely. I'm sure he still has a great deal to give to CFC should he so wish but unfortunately his place as 1st team manager has become untenable.
For me, the board have probably got a 6 game period where they can just about get away with being entrusted to make the correct decision on our behalf. If targets aren't met and they are still fumbling along at this point, then thought has to be given as to how the average outside fan, who are club relies on, can affect the situation. I can never get away from the feeling that those in the inner sanctum of the club are so wrapped up in Jon 'being a nice guy' that they can't actually bring themselves to make a tough call. It was different with Burr - he hadn't done all the community work and immersed himself in that way. Ultimately, JM is a failing football manager and that's what he is paid a lot of money to do. Decisions should be based on that alone. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 22:01:35 GMT
Really wish local press would step up and openly question Macca and the security of his job. They read the forums and are active on twitter so will know the discontent amongst fans. They are as guilty as sweeping it all under the carpet as Macca and Maguire are
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Meeting?
Aug 21, 2017 22:07:47 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Aug 21, 2017 22:07:47 GMT
The press have to tread a delicate line to be fair, as they need the club to provide them with stories just as much as the club needs them for the publicity.
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Post by Harry Lime on Aug 21, 2017 22:12:39 GMT
I actually emailed the Chairman and Lawrence Kirby at the end of last season raising my concerns about JMc, and raising the question of an EGM.
Unfortunately the next day there were a glut of new contracts announced, this overtook the issue of him being removed. IMO it was too late at that point. The manager should have been removed at that time instead of allowing new contracts.
I received a direct response from Lawrence, and Marion Needham responded regarding my question regarding an EGM.
I replied saying that the new contract announcements had overtaken things, and there wasn't much point in calling for an EGM and I'd support the board in their decision making.
The Operational Board are in a tough place now. However, they must be aware that the majority of fans (who attend the games) have little confidence in JMc turning this around. Publicly they need to support him. Privately they must have the same concerns as most of us.
I attended a Squad builder meeting with JMc and MM late last season. There was no positive questions from the dozen of us at all during the 80 minutes. You could tell MM had noticed the tone of the questioning.
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Post by agl on Aug 21, 2017 22:16:40 GMT
I have to respectfully disagree. An EGM to propose a vote of no confidence in JM as 1st team manager is far from confusing, it's quite precise and unambiguous in it's wording. If it antagonises anyone on the board of directors then I would respectively ask them to step down immediately.
As I said, it needs to be viewed as a positive thing that the fans back the directors in a move they may well be looking at making anyway.
I carefully did not mention JM losing his job completely. I'm sure he still has a great deal to give to CFC should he so wish but unfortunately his place as 1st team manager has become untenable.
For me, the board have probably got a 6 game period where they can just about get away with being entrusted to make the correct decision on our behalf. If targets aren't met and they are still fumbling along at this point, then thought has to be given as to how the average outside fan, who are club relies on, can affect the situation. I can never get away from the feeling that those in the inner sanctum of the club are so wrapped up in Jon 'being a nice guy' that they can't actually bring themselves to make a tough call. It was different with Burr - he hadn't done all the community work and immersed himself in that way. Ultimately, JM is a failing football manager and that's what he is paid a lot of money to do. Decisions should be based on that alone. Don't get all this inner sanctum nonsense. The board are all fans - the only difference between them and the so called average fan is that they give up their time to run the club instead of sitting on Internet forums. I believe we are short of directors currently so if you don't like it..... Weirdest thing I have read for a while on here was the guy bringing up the issue of them wearing suits, as if they are somehow trying to set themselves apart. Personally I haven't got the time and couldn't be bothered with all the grief, so guess I'm happy to trust in those that do put their heads above the parapet. It's becoming a thankless task and you do wonder if it will get to to the stage where no one wants to get involved. |
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Meeting?
Aug 21, 2017 22:59:43 GMT
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Post by bing on Aug 21, 2017 22:59:43 GMT
For me, the board have probably got a 6 game period where they can just about get away with being entrusted to make the correct decision on our behalf. If targets aren't met and they are still fumbling along at this point, then thought has to be given as to how the average outside fan, who are club relies on, can affect the situation. I can never get away from the feeling that those in the inner sanctum of the club are so wrapped up in Jon 'being a nice guy' that they can't actually bring themselves to make a tough call. It was different with Burr - he hadn't done all the community work and immersed himself in that way. Ultimately, JM is a failing football manager and that's what he is paid a lot of money to do. Decisions should be based on that alone. Don't get all this inner sanctum nonsense. The board are all fans - the only difference between them and the so called average fan is that they give up their time to run the club instead of sitting on Internet forums. I believe we are short of directors currently so if you don't like it..... Weirdest thing I have read for a while on here was the guy bringing up the issue of them wearing suits, as if they are somehow trying to set themselves apart. Personally I haven't got the time and couldn't be bothered with all the grief, so guess I'm happy to trust in those that do put their heads above the parapet. It's becoming a thankless task and you do wonder if it will get to to the stage where no one wants to get involved. Totally agree with this. Some of the name calling and 'Raging Against The Machine' from some posters totally lacks dignity. I trust the Board to make decisions on my behalf and I respect each and every one of them for giving up their own time for the benefit of our club. |
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Meeting?
Aug 21, 2017 23:11:37 GMT
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Post by The Angry Agenda on Aug 21, 2017 23:11:37 GMT
I actually emailed the Chairman and Lawrence Kirby at the end of last season raising my concerns about JMc, and raising the question of an EGM. Unfortunately the next day there were a glut of new contracts announced, this overtook the issue of him being removed. IMO it was too late at that point. The manager should have been removed at that time instead of allowing new contracts. I received a direct response from Lawrence, and Marion Needham responded regarding my question regarding an EGM. I replied saying that the new contract announcements had overtaken things, and there wasn't much point in calling for an EGM and I'd support the board in their decision making. The Operational Board are in a tough place now. However, they must be aware that the majority of fans (who attend the games) have little confidence in JMc turning this around. Publicly they need to support him. Privately they must have the same concerns as most of us. I attended a Squad builder meeting with JMc and MM late last season. There was no positive questions from the dozen of us at all during the 80 minutes. You could tell MM had noticed the tone of the questioning. Most of what you've stated is why I'll be well pissed if indeed McCarthy does go. It's pointless backing a bloke all Summer only for him to be then sacked in August/September. He should of gone in May and a new manager been given the whole Summer to bring in the players he wanted and work with them. New contracts were promised by JM before we were even safe, and then handed out soon as the season finished, like a smokescreen to hide behind and give people something to talk about, other than how we've limped along for the past few months. Like you say as soon as contracts were issued it overtook everything else, and that should never have been allowed to happen, especially with the disastrous dip in form. |
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Post by Forever Blue on Aug 22, 2017 0:16:15 GMT
He should have gone at the end of last season before he was allowed to spend the money we got for Sam Hughes but the way I see it is the board knew they had made a feck up and had to back him.
They allowed him to carry on and gave him that budget and on paper its not a bad squad but tactically the football is still shocking and the results since December speak for themselves.
As far as I am concerned the board need to admit the 2yr contract was a mistake and get rid before our attendances drop even lower and the confidence is ripped out of this new team.
Get rid now.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Aug 22, 2017 6:22:56 GMT
Alan makes some great points here and I fully appreciate what the board had to consider at the time of appointing him.
However, I'm also worried that board members still do not see what the rest of us have. They were warned back end of last season about McCarthy but continued to blindly back him over the summer.
His record is abysmal and as bad as the stats are - they only really tell half the story! Have the board still not realised (like everybody else has) that this club needs better?
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Post by superman on Aug 22, 2017 8:29:13 GMT
Whilst respecting the general memberships rights to call for special general meeting and sharing the frustrations over results and performance on the pitch, I feel calling such a meeting would precipitate not only board members walking away but potentially split the fan base. What message does it say about the way the club is run to prospective future employees and sponsors. The board must be allowed to run the club, if the membership don't like the way they are doing it then election time is coming up. I expect that Jon McCarthy has been given short and medium term targets to meet and that he will be held to account, my guess he has been given a realistic 10 games. He will know himself that he is now under extreme pressure to deliver, I don't believe that he will, but hope he does and proves us wrong.
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