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Post by avfo on Aug 5, 2023 22:56:29 GMT
INCIDENT OF MISCONDUCT – CROWD CONTROL
Chester FC, National League North
Chester FC vs Brackley Town FC
National League North
7 May 2023
Breach of FA Rule E21.1 – It is alleged that Chester FC failed to ensure that spectators and/or its supporters (and anyone purporting to be its supporters or followers) conduct themselves in an orderly fashion whilst attending the Match and do not use words or otherwise behave in a way which is improper, offensive, violent, threatening, abusive, insulting or provocative.
Chester FC admit the Charge and elect a Paper Hearing
Rule 21 and its implications -
FA Rule 21 now sets out the rules relating to spectator misconduct at football matches as set out below.
“SUPPORTER BEHAVIOUR”
E21 A Club must ensure that spectators and/or its supporters (and anyone purporting to be its supporters or followers) conduct themselves in an orderly fashion whilst attending any Match and do not:
E21.1 use words or otherwise behave in a way which is improper, offensive, violent, threatening, abusive, indecent, insulting or provocative;
E21.2 throw missiles or other potentially harmful or dangerous objects at or on to the pitch;
E21.3 encroach on to the pitch or commit any form of pitch incursion;
E21.4 conduct themselves in a manner prohibited by paragraph E21.1 in circumstances where that conduct is discriminatory in that it includes a reference, whether express or implied, to one or more of ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, religion or belief, gender, gender reassignment, sexual orientation or disability.
E21.5 it shall be a defence to a Charge in relation to Rules E21.1 to E21.3 (only) if a Club can show that all events, incidents or occurrences complained of were the result of circumstances over which it had no control, or for reasons of crowd safety, and that its responsible officers or agents had used all due diligence to ensure that its said responsibility was discharged. However, when considering whether this defence is made out a Regulatory Commission will have regard to all relevant factors including:
• The extent to which the Club has discharged its duty;
• The severity of the issues involved;
• The extent to which similar issues have occurred previously in which case whether the Club took sufficient action in preventing further such incidences.
E21.6 For the avoidance of doubt Rule E21 shall apply to the conduct of both a Club’s home and/or away supporters.
3. THE FA’S INVESTIGATION
The FA reserves the right to take disciplinary action against any Club where its supporters or spectators act as outlined above in E21.
Where The FA becomes aware of an allegation of potential misconduct by a Club’s supporter(s) then an investigation will be commenced
where The FA is of the view that a Club may have breached E21.
As part of any investigation a Club will be expected to set out the details of the following (this is not an exhaustive list):
o the preparation and planning undertaken for that fixture;
o measures taken at the time of any incident;
o the actions taken post event in order to identify the perpetrators; and the steps taken in respect of said supporters.
4. WHEN WILL THE FA TAKE ACTION?
The following non-exhaustive factors will be taken into account in considering whether to issue a Charge:
• The level of preparation and planning that the Club undertook in the run up to the relevant fixture.
• The steps taken by the Club to deal with the incident once it became aware of the same.
• The steps taken by the Club to identify the supporter(s) involved, and the sufficiency of the action taken against the supporter(s) (if any).
• The nature of the behaviour of the supporter(s) involved.
• The consequence(s) of the conduct of the supporter(s) (e.g. whether potential and/or actual harm has been caused to any person(s).
• The duration of the incident.
• Whether the Club has received previous warnings or charges in respect of crowd behaviour.
For the avoidance of doubt, the above factors are non-exhaustive, and the individual facts and circumstances of each case will always be considered when deciding whether to take formal disciplinary action.
It is a matter for The FA whether or not to issue a Charge and the fact that a Club may seek to raise the defence referenced in Rule E21 shall not be a barrier to The FA issuing a Charge. It is ultimately a matter for a Regulatory Commission whether a Club has met the relevant criteria under the Rule to successfully defend a Charge.
5. FACTORS TO BE CONSIDERED WHEN DETERMING SANCTION
A Regulatory Commission may impose any penalty as provided by paragraph 40 of Part A to the Disciplinary Regulations.
In particular, a Regulatory Commission shall consider imposing any combination of:
• a financial penalty;
• the closure of a stand (or part thereof) of a Club’s stadium for a specified number of Matches (“Partial Stadium Closure”); or
• the closure of a Club’s stadium for a specified number of Matches (i.e. the playing of a Match or Matches without spectators being present) (“Full Stadium Closure”)
A Regulatory Commission will have due regard to the circumstances and seriousness of the incident when determining the appropriate sanction (to include the level of any financial penalty that may be imposed). In so doing, the Regulatory Commission will consider a range of factors, to include the following:
• The number of supporters involved;
• The nature of the behaviour of those involved;
• The duration of the incident(s);
• The severity of the incident(s) and/or whether any injury occurred to any person(s) or could have occurred;
• Whether the Club (and/or its officers):
o took all reasonable steps in its preparation and planning for the fixture in which the Relevant Breach occurred;
o took all reasonable steps in dealing effectively with the incident, when it arose;
o took all reasonable steps in identifying the supporter(s) involved;
o took sufficient action against those supporters responsible where those individuals were identified.
• The previous disciplinary record of the Club in respect of crowd matters.
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Post by Curva Nord on Aug 8, 2023 13:32:25 GMT
£5000, I thought it would be a lot more, good job we have some new sponsors on board, hopefully this won't happen again
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Post by Matt on Aug 8, 2023 13:37:25 GMT
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Post by jayhawks on Aug 8, 2023 13:38:04 GMT
£5000, I thought it would be a lot more, good job we have some new sponsors on board, hopefully this won't happen again Also thought that would be higher. Hopefully we can now secure a few more players on board.
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Post by Matt on Aug 8, 2023 13:38:17 GMT
By all accounts I think we've got away with that, the United fixture has probably cut those costs in half
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Post by Curva Nord on Aug 8, 2023 13:47:56 GMT
I expect next time will be the hammer blow
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Post by Lon on Aug 8, 2023 13:47:58 GMT
Over £30k all in with the additional policing costs etc. Can see why Cal is operating with a slightly smaller squad this time round. Fine of £5k a bit lower than I thought we’d get so can’t grumble too much with it. Just hope it doesn’t happen again because we really will get the book thrown at us then
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2023 13:51:10 GMT
30k total hit.
Hope the knuckle draggers are happy - that’s a big hit off the playing budget, would have got you a decent striker at this level.
Seen the same faces at Bishops who were on the pitch vs Brackley…….
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Post by Moltisanti on Aug 8, 2023 14:06:36 GMT
30k total hit. Hope the knuckle draggers are happy - that’s a big hit off the playing budget, would have got you a decent striker at this level. Seen the same faces at Bishops who were on the pitch vs Brackley……. I didn’t see anyone from the videos?
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Post by Harry Lime on Aug 8, 2023 14:10:11 GMT
Agree with Bruera. £30k would be the difference in signing a Willoughby, and not.
Our playing budget was somewhere around £420k last season. That covered 18/20 players. You can see the effect it could have on putting the squad together.
All the procedures put into place with the police, stewards and SAG may have actually helped keep the direct fine to £5k. Problem is, doing that has cost a further £25k.
If they want to find the other culprits why don't they have spotters on the gates at away and home games? They have the cctv images. High visibility monitoring may help keep them away.
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Post by agl on Aug 8, 2023 14:12:54 GMT
30k total hit. Hope the knuckle draggers are happy - that’s a big hit off the playing budget, would have got you a decent striker at this level. Seen the same faces at Bishops who were on the pitch vs Brackley……. There's still a nasty edge to a minority of our support. The linesman and their keeper got levels of abuse which, a few of us commented on the day, were out of order. I don't consider myself a shrinking violet but I'm not entirely comfortable with my fellow supporters screaming the c word at two guys trying to do their job. Thought their keeper took it brilliantly, even wishing us a safe journey home. I suppose that's what passes for banter these days.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Aug 8, 2023 14:14:38 GMT
Seen the same faces at Bishops who were on the pitch vs Brackley……. Some on here have been using their words carefully to suggest that the pitch incursion on its own would not be an offence, thus separating some of the pitch invaders from those caught on film throwing things. To be honest it had an air of the posters knowing exactly who people are and highlighting that jumping up and down and shadow jockeying like a boxer isn't actually doing any harm - which is true, to be fair. Basically not everyone who ran over to the away end actually committed a criminal offence, is what is being said, and I for one recognise some from various photos and clips (one hilarious one) but don't recognise any of the culprits that the police have appealed for.
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Post by Anders on Aug 8, 2023 14:21:39 GMT
Agree with Bruera. £30k would be the difference in signing a Willoughby, and not. Our playing budget was somewhere around £420k last season. That covered 18/20 players. You can see the effect it could have on putting the squad together. All the procedures put into place with the police, stewards and SAG may have actually helped keep the direct fine to £5k. Problem is, doing that has cost a further £25k. If they want to find the other culprits why don't they have spotters on the gates at away and home games? They have the cctv images. High visibility monitoring may help keep them away. Is the budget actually any lower than last season despite the costs to this? We raised £30k more in Boost The Budget this year than last year, had a big gate friendly, record season ticket sales and record new shirt sales x2.
Would clearly rather have that £30kish to spend on other things but we have pulled a bit in this Summer by the looks of it as well.
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Post by Harry Lime on Aug 8, 2023 14:38:30 GMT
Agree with Bruera. £30k would be the difference in signing a Willoughby, and not. Our playing budget was somewhere around £420k last season. That covered 18/20 players. You can see the effect it could have on putting the squad together. All the procedures put into place with the police, stewards and SAG may have actually helped keep the direct fine to £5k. Problem is, doing that has cost a further £25k. If they want to find the other culprits why don't they have spotters on the gates at away and home games? They have the cctv images. High visibility monitoring may help keep them away. Is the budget actually any lower than last season despite the costs to this? We raised £30k more in Boost The Budget this year than last year, had a big gate friendly, record season ticket sales and record new shirt sales x2.
Would clearly rather have that £30kish to spend on other things but we have pulled a bit in this Summer by the looks of it as well.
Good question. Doubt we'll know the answer to that question until late in the season as its mainly wage costs. Cal did imply he'd keep something back to add to the squad, as needed. Similar to last season when we signed Coates. Suspect we'd have been keeping something back until we knew the size of the fine. Cal hinted about one more coming in the other week, but nothing happened. Maybe he signed for someone else??
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Post by Matt on Aug 8, 2023 15:12:42 GMT
Is the budget actually any lower than last season despite the costs to this? We raised £30k more in Boost The Budget this year than last year, had a big gate friendly, record season ticket sales and record new shirt sales x2.
Would clearly rather have that £30kish to spend on other things but we have pulled a bit in this Summer by the looks of it as well.
Good question. Doubt we'll know the answer to that question until late in the season as its mainly wage costs. Cal did imply he'd keep something back to add to the squad, as needed. Similar to last season when we signed Coates. Suspect we'd have been keeping something back until we knew the size of the fine. Cal hinted about one more coming in the other week, but nothing happened. Maybe he signed for someone else?? There was rumours that we were signing Kelan Swales but he ended up at Alfreton
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Post by utb on Aug 8, 2023 15:29:23 GMT
Huge let off that. Thought it would be significantly more, I can only assume they've gone easy on us being a fan-owned tier six club. Really surprised we haven't been given a one-game stadium closure either.
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Post by borussiachester on Aug 8, 2023 15:32:06 GMT
Agree with Bruera. £30k would be the difference in signing a Willoughby, and not. Our playing budget was somewhere around £420k last season. That covered 18/20 players. You can see the effect it could have on putting the squad together. All the procedures put into place with the police, stewards and SAG may have actually helped keep the direct fine to £5k. Problem is, doing that has cost a further £25k. If they want to find the other culprits why don't they have spotters on the gates at away and home games? They have the cctv images. High visibility monitoring may help keep them away. Is the budget actually any lower than last season despite the costs to this? We raised £30k more in Boost The Budget this year than last year, had a big gate friendly, record season ticket sales and record new shirt sales x2.
Would clearly rather have that £30kish to spend on other things but we have pulled a bit in this Summer by the looks of it as well.
Cal said during the season ticket event the other week that our budget is similar to last season’s, but that he’s pushing for more money to be spent off the pitch eg. on overnight stays. He’s mentioned that one or two more signings are currently in the works, but also implied in his post-match interview on Saturday that we can’t afford to, for example, sign another centre-half to cover for the injuries we’ve got.
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Post by Anders on Aug 8, 2023 15:53:55 GMT
Is the budget actually any lower than last season despite the costs to this? We raised £30k more in Boost The Budget this year than last year, had a big gate friendly, record season ticket sales and record new shirt sales x2.
Would clearly rather have that £30kish to spend on other things but we have pulled a bit in this Summer by the looks of it as well.
Cal said during the season ticket event the other week that our budget is similar to last season’s, but that he’s pushing for more money to be spent off the pitch eg. on overnight stays. He’s mentioned that one or two more signings are currently in the works, but also implied in his post-match interview on Saturday that we can’t afford to, for example, sign another centre-half to cover for the injuries we’ve got. Ah yes, succesful last season but was noted to be costly in the CFU minutes, this despite a decent influx of added cup cash earnt to give us a boost (5 shared gates = 13,145 total, two rounds of winning prize money and one round of losing prize money).
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Post by loskasleftfoot on Aug 8, 2023 16:29:59 GMT
We stayed overnight before Bishops Stortford. The NE games over the years have also included many stopovers with little return, so is a stopover the answer?
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Post by Curva Nord on Aug 8, 2023 16:32:31 GMT
We stayed overnight before Bishops Stortford. The NE games over the years have also included many stopovers with little return, so is a stopover the answer? If it helps better prepare the players, then yes.
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Post by Lon on Aug 8, 2023 16:36:11 GMT
We stayed overnight before Bishops Stortford. The NE games over the years have also included many stopovers with little return, so is a stopover the answer? Don’t think you can doubt Cal’s opinion after our away record last season to be fair
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Post by loskasleftfoot on Aug 8, 2023 16:37:29 GMT
We stayed overnight before Bishops Stortford. The NE games over the years have also included many stopovers with little return, so is a stopover the answer? Don’t think you can doubt Cal’s opinion after our away record last season to be fair fair comment
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Post by chesterken on Aug 8, 2023 16:44:24 GMT
Seen the same faces at Bishops who were on the pitch vs Brackley……. Some on here have been using their words carefully to suggest that the pitch incursion on its own would not be an offence, thus separating some of the pitch invaders from those caught on film throwing things. To be honest it had an air of the posters knowing exactly who people are and highlighting that jumping up and down and shadow jockeying like a boxer isn't actually doing any harm - which is true, to be fair. Basically not everyone who ran over to the away end actually committed a criminal offence, is what is being said, and I for one recognise some from various photos and clips (one hilarious one) but don't recognise any of the culprits that the police have appealed for. Sorry but they all did by going on to the pitch , the situation would have been handled if just a small number of morons had gone across to the Brackley fans but it was made worse by the other knobheads going with them.
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Post by vandycandy on Aug 8, 2023 17:01:10 GMT
Glad this is all behind us now though & we can actually focus purely on the football. Can't be displeased with the outcome as others have said we got off extremely lightly. I'd imagine in the future if we see bigger gates which the club think trouble could arise from then it will be policed a lot better(although I still have no faith in those useless bastards). Not defending the actions of the idiots who invaded the pitch as my posts on the Brackley thread will show but had they been in the ground where & when they were supposed to be would this have happened. I think not.
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Post by banksy on Aug 8, 2023 19:21:37 GMT
I think we've all taken a large intake of breath waiting for the outcome of this.
It could have been a lot worse yes, but the simple fact of this all is that the actions of those involved have resulted in £30K+ impact on the club. We as a board will back Calum as much as we can do, but these fines and associated costs certainly put a spanner in the works when attempting to help build a squad capable of winning the League.
What it does do, is spell out how easy our club can be hurt by people just not being able to contain themselves after a defeat. We were ALL distraught that day, from the players on the pitch, the management team in the dugout, the fans who didn't go on the pitch, and those tuning in from all over the world following the club they love.
Let's now work hard to ensure we get our capacity back to the levels we were hitting towards the end of last season.
The eyes of the footballing authorities will well and truly now be fixed on our supporters, both at the Deva and away from it. To those who still think it's acceptable to cause us the issues faced, then we look forward to your payment coming in to cover the costs (and not just the £5k fine!) - somehow I doubt we'll receive anything.
Jeff
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Post by agl on Aug 9, 2023 6:04:24 GMT
I think we've all taken a large intake of breath waiting for the outcome of this. It could have been a lot worse yes, but the simple fact of this all is that the actions of those involved have resulted in £30K+ impact on the club. We as a board will back Calum as much as we can do, but these fines and associated costs certainly put a spanner in the works when attempting to help build a squad capable of winning the League. What it does do, is spell out how easy our club can be hurt by people just not being able to contain themselves after a defeat. We were ALL distraught that day, from the players on the pitch, the management team in the dugout, the fans who didn't go on the pitch, and those tuning in from all over the world following the club they love. Let's now work hard to ensure we get our capacity back to the levels we were hitting towards the end of last season. The eyes of the footballing authorities will well and truly now be fixed on our supporters, both at the Deva and away from it. To those who still think it's acceptable to cause us the issues faced, then we look forward to your payment coming in to cover the costs (and not just the £5k fine!) - somehow I doubt we'll receive anything. Jeff I trust fans who follow us away will also take note that we are still under scrutiny, not just at the Deva. I doubt we will be shown much leniency. To an extent we are also in the hands of other clubs, and how they segregate and organise our matches. None of us likes losing or controversial decisions going against us but there's ways of showing it.
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Post by proudblue on Aug 9, 2023 6:52:21 GMT
Hope with this fine that the message is finally getting through to the idiot fraternity that the club suffers for their actions.
Not holding my breath though. When the club put out a statement midway through last season following some incidents at games the first reply I saw on Facebook was a middle-aged bloke declaring “do gooders can do one” and saying that anyone who doesn’t like there being bother at games should clear off and watch the Premier League. Just the view of one individual, but indicative I think of the challenge Chester FC face getting through to certain people about the need to behave so the club doesn’t suffer.
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Post by bonecrusher on Aug 9, 2023 7:08:02 GMT
Hope with this fine that the message is finally getting through to the idiot fraternity that the club suffers for their actions. No chance sadly.
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Post by bonecrusher on Aug 9, 2023 7:12:55 GMT
Seen the same faces at Bishops who were on the pitch vs Brackley……. Some on here have been using their words carefully to suggest that the pitch incursion on its own would not be an offence, thus separating some of the pitch invaders from those caught on film throwing things. To be honest it had an air of the posters knowing exactly who people are and highlighting that jumping up and down and shadow jockeying like a boxer isn't actually doing any harm - which is true, to be fair. Basically not everyone who ran over to the away end actually committed a criminal offence, is what is being said, and I for one recognise some from various photos and clips (one hilarious one) but don't recognise any of the culprits that the police have appealed for. Anyone who went on the pitch was part of the problem.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Aug 9, 2023 7:22:24 GMT
Some on here have been using their words carefully to suggest that the pitch incursion on its own would not be an offence, thus separating some of the pitch invaders from those caught on film throwing things. To be honest it had an air of the posters knowing exactly who people are and highlighting that jumping up and down and shadow jockeying like a boxer isn't actually doing any harm - which is true, to be fair. Basically not everyone who ran over to the away end actually committed a criminal offence, is what is being said, and I for one recognise some from various photos and clips (one hilarious one) but don't recognise any of the culprits that the police have appealed for. Anyone who went on the pitch was part of the problem. I was careful not to pass the above post off as my opinion, if you read it back you’ll see that I am paraphrasing certain other posters on here, some with very close links to the board, who were at pains to differentiate some of the pitch invaders who headed straight for the away end from those who the police have released mug shots for. As I said I don’t recognise any of the police’s appeal but I do recognise quite a few from other videos and images that are not in the police’s appeal. There’s also the fans who entered the pitch calmly a few minutes later to console our own players.
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