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Post by The Angry Agenda on Oct 26, 2017 9:56:36 GMT
Noticed that FC United have parted company with Karl Marginson after 12 years in charge. He led them to four promotions in that time, but are currently
struggling in 21st place in the National League North.
No doubt the uprising of Salford City hasn't helped FC United, but always felt they've underachieved with the structure they have had in place, and the fan
base.
Be interesting to see where they go from here, and who they appoint.
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Post by bogsnorkel on Oct 26, 2017 11:31:16 GMT
How long before we hear JM has applied
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Post by Si on Oct 26, 2017 12:10:56 GMT
Must admit I'd have expected them to have got up the Conference by now but it goes to show how tough it is to get out of that league. They've always seemed to be pretty well run off the pitch but have never managed to take that next step on it.
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Post by Imperial on Oct 26, 2017 13:51:54 GMT
Must admit I'd have expected them to have got up the Conference by now but it goes to show how tough it is to get out of that league. They've always seemed to be pretty well run off the pitch but have never managed to take that next step on it. Hope they never do. |
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Post by The Angry Agenda on Oct 26, 2017 14:31:24 GMT
They are a funny bunch, with no real ambition to succeed, which is probably why they've not progressed as quickly as we all thought, and why they've only
had one manager. Being successful and the rewards that come with it, seem to be against everything they are in existence for in the 1st place. I can remember
talking to a couple of their fans when we played them, and they hated us for what we were trying to achieve and how we were going about it.
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Post by Lobster on Oct 26, 2017 18:34:48 GMT
They played at Bury for years, kept admission prices low and saved up enough to build their own stadium. The idea is to be affordable and sustainable. Good on them, I say, even though I don't agree with everything they say and do.
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Post by iandychesterfc on Oct 27, 2017 8:31:11 GMT
Think theres a few jealous eyes cast their way of how they are run and what they have achieved as a club. If you think being in our situation battling relegation every year one league above makes us better, i fear for you.
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Post by Firestick Frank on Oct 27, 2017 11:27:20 GMT
Think theres a few jealous eyes cast their way of how they are run and what they have achieved as a club. If you think being in our situation battling relegation every year one league above makes us better, i fear for you. Agree with that. They're sustainable. They've built their own ground and facilities. We blew budget after budget in the incessant race to the Conference (remember our official aim is to be in the Football League by 2020 - rarely mentioned these days) and we're now paying the price for such recklessness. |
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Post by Al on Oct 27, 2017 11:44:09 GMT
They're an example of what we could have done if we'd have kept things low cost and affordable whilst working to develop ourselves off the field and improve our facilities.
I really don't get the chip some people on here, and former board members have about FCUM at all. They are light years ahead of us still regards fundraising, and facilities.
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Post by Imperial on Oct 27, 2017 12:03:55 GMT
The two clubs are not comparable at all, they had huge support in setting up from thousands of slightly disenfranchised United fans, most of whom are now back to supporting United.
That’s my problem with them, they were set up by Man Utd fans unhappy with how their club were being run, fair enough.
There are literally dozens of small local clubs who could have used that support who instead are now having to compete with another team with no history & no real soul.
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Post by histsci on Oct 27, 2017 12:20:21 GMT
Whilst I admire lots that FCUM do, didn't they have a pretty severe financial wobble last season? There were members expelled and subsequently an entirely new board after an EGM if I'm remembering correctly. There's probably an article on it somewhere (I'll have a look this evening when I have time).
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Post by Al on Oct 27, 2017 13:06:41 GMT
The two clubs are not comparable at all, they had huge support in setting up from thousands of slightly disenfranchised United fans, most of whom are now back to supporting United. That’s my problem with them, they were set up by Man Utd fans unhappy with how their club were being run, fair enough. There are literally dozens of small local clubs who could have used that support who instead are now having to compete with another team with no history & no real soul. Whereas we were setup and had huge support from over 2000 CFU Members, and disenfranchised CCFC supporters, and nearly half of them have given up and gone found other things to do...
They worked their arses off and found the money to build their own ground. Doesn't matter what you think of them as supporters, they built their own ground and had to fork out 200k per year in rent to Bury at the same time.
Meanwhile, we don't even have a fundraising committee..
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Post by Imperial on Oct 28, 2017 14:39:37 GMT
They’re the largest fan owned club so no the two aren’t comparable. Loads of Manchester based Utd fans have adopted them as their second team so they have far more support in terms of fans & finance than we have.
Im not denying what they’ve achieved, my point is just that I’m not happy with disenfranchised PL fans forming their own lower league clubs that we then have to compete with. As I said, dozens of clubs could use their support if they no longer want to watch Utd, they’d probably be more local for most as well.
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Post by Lobster on Oct 28, 2017 18:39:37 GMT
I'm not totally won over by them but I generally respect them and thought it was a bit of a shame that our relationship with them turned a tad acrimonious. I'd put that down partly to a section of our fans being a bit knobhead-ish as they often are, but also I think some of their fans should realise that their position is pretty unique. They seemed to resent us and Halifax mainly because we could compete with them for support and resources, but we never chose to be playing at that level. If you support arguably the biggest club in the world in Manchester United, there's a big pool of supporters there and finding enough like-minded ones to get being an idea like FCUM is not that difficult. We don't have that luxury - we're a traditional small, lower league club that struggles for support and had no choice but to pick up the pieces. There's no unifying cause behind Chester FC like there is with FCUM, and we have a lot of disagreements. I'm not sure they ever quite appreciated that and instead seemed to scorn our supporters' attitudes, which is pretty ridiculous coming from Man Utd fans really.
Also, I agree with stortfordblue that if you're sick of the Premier League, everyone has a non-league club near them, especially around Manchester. I thought Radcliffe, Trafford and Mossley were all cracking little clubs when we were in those leagues, and I'd have said Salford as well before they got United-ised. I'm not sure it was quite necessary to set up a new non-league club in homage to a much bigger club.
Despite all this though, they are passionate football people and I respect what they've done, and there are things I wish we did a bit more like them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2017 20:08:46 GMT
A lot of people are moving away from top flight football. I think it is a great sign!
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Post by Firestick Frank on Oct 29, 2017 7:05:54 GMT
I'm not totally won over by them but I generally respect them and thought it was a bit of a shame that our relationship with them turned a tad acrimonious. I'd put that down partly to a section of our fans being a bit knobhead-ish as they often are, but also I think some of their fans should realise that their position is pretty unique. They seemed to resent us and Halifax mainly because we could compete with them for support and resources, but we never chose to be playing at that level. If you support arguably the biggest club in the world in Manchester United, there's a big pool of supporters there and finding enough like-minded ones to get being an idea like FCUM is not that difficult. We don't have that luxury - we're a traditional small, lower league club that struggles for support and had no choice but to pick up the pieces. There's no unifying cause behind Chester FC like there is with FCUM, and we have a lot of disagreements. I'm not sure they ever quite appreciated that and instead seemed to scorn our supporters' attitudes, which is pretty ridiculous coming from Man Utd fans really. Also, I agree with stortfordblue that if you're sick of the Premier League, everyone has a non-league club near them, especially around Manchester. I thought Radcliffe, Trafford and Mossley were all cracking little clubs when we were in those leagues, and I'd have said Salford as well before they got United-ised. I'm not sure it was quite necessary to set up a new non-league club in homage to a much bigger club. Despite all this though, they are passionate football people and I respect what they've done, and there are things I wish we did a bit more like them. Not to mention the attitude on social media of one of our founding board members towards them despite inviting Walshy to come and speak at our official unveiling. |
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Post by agl on Oct 29, 2017 7:59:26 GMT
Big difference was that we had a lot of bagge because of our recent league history. There was an expectation/ desire among the fan base that wanted to be playing at a reasonable level (national league) within a short space of time. If we were still playing regional football I wonder what attendances would be? I think the promotions were great for the club. It does look like we may be back down there next year so maybe time for a rethink about what the club is all about?
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Post by avfo on Oct 29, 2017 18:38:08 GMT
Must admit I'd have expected them to have got up the Conference by now
Playing budget is relatively small for a Conf North club, majority of the current squad are on non-contract terms.
There are literally dozens of small local clubs who could have used that support who instead are now having to compete with another team with no history & no real soul.
Prior to its official inception FC was approached by another club who suggested a merger between the two. The offer was immediately rejected, the founders had no intention of foisting their ideas of how their club should be run onto any existing club or indeed stealing that clubs’ identity and history.
Whilst I admire lots that FCUM do, didn't they have a pretty severe financial wobble last season? There were members expelled and subsequently an entirely new board after an EGM if I'm remembering correctly.
Your memory is correct. Eventually, thanks to the actions of a few of the original founders, the whole sorry state of the club was exposed to the rest of the clubs ownership. Following those revelations Walsh, Walker and the others were chased out of the club.
They're sustainable.
In the future hopefully, but the club has been effectively firefighting ever since the extent of the financial mismanagement of the football club was revealed. As well as dealing with the financial legacy of the previous regime the club is currently facing -
A fall of over 50% in the number of co-owners in the last two years
A 29% fall in season ticket holders compared to last years sales
Average attendances currently down by over 30%.
Earlier in the year there were real fears that FC might not last beyond the end of this season and although positive measures have been taken, they still face a difficult 12 months or so before the club can consider itself secure. One of those measures was paying Marginson off, if you can’t be successful you can at least try to be entertaining and it seems to many attending matches FC under him were doing neither. I think also that there finally may be a realisation that events on the pitch effects any clubs finances both positively (and almost certainly in this case) negatively.
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Post by Lobster on Oct 29, 2017 19:19:23 GMT
[quote author=" avfo" source="/post/36288/thread" timestamp="1509302288" There are literally dozens of small local clubs who could have used that support who instead are now having to compete with another team with no history & no real soul.
Prior to its official inception FC was approached by another club who suggested a merger between the two. The offer was immediately rejected, the founders had no intention of foisting their ideas of how their club should be run onto any existing club or indeed stealing that clubs’ identity and history.[/quote] That's noble of them, and it's basically what's happened with Salford - a shame as like I said I thought they were a nice club. I'm thinking more on an individual basis though. If you don't like the way Manchester United is heading, why not just go and watch Radcliffe, Trafford etc without bringing a United identity into it? I suppose the argument against that is that we as Chester fans could have just started watching Witton, Vauxhall, Runcorn, Connah's Quay, Cammell Laird etc rather than reforming Chester, but the difference is that we actually lost our club. They, as far as I understand, still follow Manchester United but dislike their owners, the Premiership, Sky etc, so I don't really get why they couldn't have just continued to support United from afar, but go and watch their local non-league team without setting up a brand new club to represent their support of someone else. Saying that, their very existence has brought money and increased profile to non-league football and they are a great bunch of fans. I dunno, I can't quite make my mind up about them! |
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Post by Imperial on Oct 30, 2017 14:33:02 GMT
Exactly that. There was no requirement to start a new club at all. If you were a United fan from Trafford then go & watch Trafford. My impression is it was all done with the best of intentions but to me it always came across as a bit reactionary.
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Post by superman on Oct 30, 2017 15:33:34 GMT
I always got the feeling that the formation of FCUM was about socialist principles against capitalist greed. Refreshing that in this country it is still possible to freely take or support such a stance whether or not you agree with or even fully understand the underlying motivations. However at the end of the day every business has to at least break even to survive. It appears that somewhere along the line model was hijacked by those in power to the detriment of the general membership. I have no idea whether this was deliberate, or just negligent, or power lust, but perhaps an example of where supposed socialist principles and prudent medium to long term financial control are hard to marry. What I do admire is the fact that they have tried to be loyal to Karl and that continued promotional success does not seem to have been important. Like us however when things get difficult on the pitch, the need to preserve current status takes precedence. I hope they survive and prosper as one example of a fan owned club who perhaps are a bit different to the rest.
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Post by avfo on Oct 30, 2017 23:51:12 GMT
I always got the feeling that the formation of FCUM was about socialist principles against capitalist greed. Refreshing that in this country it is still possible to freely take or support such a stance whether or not you agree with or even fully understand the underlying motivations. However at the end of the day every business has to at least break even to survive. It appears that somewhere along the line model was hijacked by those in power to the detriment of the general membership. I have no idea whether this was deliberate, or just negligent, or power lust, but perhaps an example of where supposed socialist principles and prudent medium to long term financial control are hard to marry. What I do admire is the fact that they have tried to be loyal to Karl and that continued promotional success does not seem to have been important. Like us however when things get difficult on the pitch, the need to preserve current status takes precedence. I hope they survive and prosper as one example of a fan owned club who perhaps are a bit different to the rest. 'It appears that somewhere along the line model was hijacked by those in power to the detriment of the general membership' - absolutely, not to mention the damage to the football club, damage that may take at least a year to put right. 'whether this was deliberate, or just negligent, or power lust' -yes, yes and yes. There were several major players in this farce/tragedy and they are all equally culpable. I would also add ego and attempted future career enhancement to the list. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 8:09:31 GMT
I always got the feeling that the formation of FCUM was about socialist principles against capitalist greed. Refreshing that in this country it is still possible to freely take or support such a stance whether or not you agree with or even fully understand the underlying motivations. However at the end of the day every business has to at least break even to survive. It appears that somewhere along the line model was hijacked by those in power to the detriment of the general membership. I have no idea whether this was deliberate, or just negligent, or power lust, but perhaps an example of where supposed socialist principles and prudent medium to long term financial control are hard to marry. What I do admire is the fact that they have tried to be loyal to Karl and that continued promotional success does not seem to have been important. Like us however when things get difficult on the pitch, the need to preserve current status takes precedence. I hope they survive and prosper as one example of a fan owned club who perhaps are a bit different to the rest. 'It appears that somewhere along the line model was hijacked by those in power to the detriment of the general membership' - absolutely, not to mention the damage to the football club, damage that may take at least a year to put right. 'whether this was deliberate, or just negligent, or power lust' -yes, yes and yes. There were several major players in this farce/tragedy and they are all equally culpable. I would also add ego and attempted future career enhancement to the list. Currently reading Red Rebels by JP O'Neill. Very interesting to see from inside the whole anti Murdoch/Glazer thing, the formation of FCUM and the subsequent challenges faced over those abusing power. Lots of similarities to our own struggles, formation and operation as a co-operative. Id recommend it to anyone interested in the workings of these things. |
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Post by The Angry Agenda on Nov 4, 2017 9:34:48 GMT
They're an example of what we could have done if we'd have kept things low cost and affordable whilst working to develop ourselves off the field and improve our facilities. I really don't get the chip some people on here, and former board members have about FCUM at all. They are light years ahead of us still regards fundraising, and facilities. Didn't realise former board members had a problem with FCUM, when was this and why ? I know they were very good to us when we reformed, but wasn't aware of a fall out !!! |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Nov 4, 2017 20:44:38 GMT
Banksy always has something critical and negative to say about them - considering he invited Walshy onto the stage for our formal reformation evening it's surprising.
I, and a lot of others I know, bought into our Newco as we were sold the dream of this club being something different. Something, dare I say it, like FCUM continue to be. Nowadays I feel sad that we have lost sight of that and are no different to Braintree, Gateshead, Solihull etc other than that fact that the make-up of the boardroom is elected by us.
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