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Post by soulseal on Nov 10, 2017 3:55:42 GMT
It was interesting and rather annoying to compare and contrast the two penalty decisions from Chris Holroyd's 'handball' and Corey Evans handball in the Northern Ireland vs Switzerland match.
From a supporters point of view I felt both decisions went the wrong way against the team I was following so am annoyed about the implied refereeing failures and admit that I have bias in the decisions both cases.
i would like to get the two involved referees opinions on both incidents, but I suspect the referee didn't actual see the Chris Holroyd handball which is why he didn't give it. But if he did see it and thought it was 'ball to hand' then there is a serious difference in interpretation of the law when compared to the Romanian referee in the N Ireland - Switzerland game.
I have referreed in youth football and it is not easy, and the temptation to 'bottle it' has to be fought - I normally referee when one of the sides is my own. But surely this human aspect is the most obvious area where trained and experienced referees should differ from those of us who dabble at it. We all know the rules as well. It seems to me not to be the case as so often in the big matches the highest regarded or positioned team get the benefit of the decision.
The inconsistency of referees in this area seems to be the biggest issue for fans. I would love to hear from an experienced referee on this comparison, or even after a game a referee be able to honestly comment on a controversial decision and say why he got it right or wrong.
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Post by Lobster on Nov 10, 2017 6:19:23 GMT
I think there was an element of doubt and opinion over whether Holroyd's was a penalty, whereas the one Northern Ireland had given against them yesterday was just a really poor piece of refereeing.
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Post by zipper on Nov 10, 2017 8:19:58 GMT
The pen last night was a complete joke, but if that is a pen im sure some refs would have given the holroyd incident
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Post by histsci on Nov 10, 2017 8:50:56 GMT
I didn't think the Holroyd handball was a pen - he was too close to the shot to have time to move really. But there was a clear foul on Rowe-Turner in the second half that was a stonewall pen.
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Post by bing on Nov 10, 2017 9:08:23 GMT
I didn't think the Holroyd handball was a pen - he was too close to the shot to have time to move really. But there was a clear foul on Rowe-Turner in the second half that was a stonewall pen. Was the Rowe Turner the one crossed from the left wing? I remember thinking it looked a penalty, although wasn't sure who it was as I was looking at the ref. Even from the Harry Mac I thought Holroyd's was a pen. I did however think they could have had one in the first one as Astles seemed to bundle someone over. Having only seen these three incidents at the match (not on TV), I'm still not sure about any of them - which makes you realise how tough it is to be a referee, not having the luxury of an action replay. Mind you, I saw the Northern Ireland one this morning, which has to go down to one of the most ridiculous penalty decisions I've ever seen. Have to feel sorry for them, with it coming in a play-off. |
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Post by rcb on Nov 10, 2017 9:42:59 GMT
With the money involved in football now there is always a suspicion of integrity of officiating. Certain countries and cultures present more frequent cases of bias and bribery than others and asking one man, or woman, to see all the ongoings involving 22 players on the pitch is too big an ask. Wherever possible the assistance of as much technology as possible would assist, support, and prevent accusation of bias. You should always base decisions on what you clearly see, not what you think you may have seen, and in the case of last nights decision he could not have seen a handball as described in the rules because it didn’t happen. Referee clearly wrong. The irony is that VAR is being used at Wembley tonight and could have prevented the incorrect decision being made.
Far too many players willing to exploit the limitations of officials, and far too many match outcomes decided by officiating errors. That’s why I won’t pay to watch premiership matches.
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Post by sqzl on Nov 10, 2017 10:09:45 GMT
I think Holroyd ran the risk of conceding a penalty by raising his arms when he embarrassing turned his back on the ball. Could easily have been given, but it wasn't as clear as the one on LRT.
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Post by Lobster on Nov 10, 2017 10:14:24 GMT
I didn't think the Holroyd handball was a pen - he was too close to the shot to have time to move really. But there was a clear foul on Rowe-Turner in the second half that was a stonewall pen. Was the Rowe Turner the one crossed from the left wing? I remember thinking it looked a penalty, although wasn't sure who it was as I was looking at the ref. Even from the Harry Mac I thought Holroyd's was a pen. I did however think they could have had one in the first one as Astles seemed to bundle someone over. Having only seen these three incidents at the match (not on TV), I'm still not sure about any of them - which makes you realise how tough it is to be a referee, not having the luxury of an action replay. Mind you, I saw the Northern Ireland one this morning, which has to go down to one of the most ridiculous penalty decisions I've ever seen. Have to feel sorry for them, with it coming in a play-off. It's not fair on NI that the playoff draw is seeded either. The groups were already seeded so the teams that came second are all theoretically reasonably good, there's no need to seed it again. NI didn't deserve arguably the toughest draw in the playoffs after the campaign they had. Regarding VAR, I'm not sure myself. A lot of its application so far has been pretty clumsy. Plus there are decisions like the Holroyd penalty the other day where even having seen replays of it there are still differences of opinion. The Northern Ireland one yesterday shouldn't have needed VAR, just better officiating. |
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Post by wxmred on Nov 10, 2017 11:18:23 GMT
Never a penalty, the ref had a good view I also think he blew too quick, he didn't think about it for a couple of seconds like most ref,s do or look for assistance from the linesman either.
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Post by bing on Nov 10, 2017 11:39:08 GMT
Never a penalty, the ref had a good view I also think he blew too quick, he didn't think about it for a couple of seconds like most ref,s do or look for assistance from the linesman either. Imagine if he reffed in the Premier League - they would be 10 penalties a game! |
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