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Corbyn
Feb 16, 2017 17:32:27 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Feb 16, 2017 17:32:27 GMT
Immigration is key to any election i feel. It's become the scapegoat for everything that going wrong. I'm glad they won't, but if the conservative party went massively anti-immigration (UKIP) i think they'd probably be unstoppable. Until Labour realise that immigration is a key issue amongst their support then they will continue to lose their vote to UKIP. When they realise it will be too late. To be honest it probably is already. Incorrect. Labour are losing support and JC is coming under fire because they are backing Article 50. |
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Corbyn
Feb 16, 2017 17:37:20 GMT
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Post by Alexander Lukashenko on Feb 16, 2017 17:37:20 GMT
Until Labour realise that immigration is a key issue amongst their support then they will continue to lose their vote to UKIP. When they realise it will be too late. To be honest it probably is already. Incorrect. Labour are losing support and JC is coming under fire because they are backing Article 50. Only the University support which isn't the majority. |
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Corbyn
Feb 22, 2017 12:43:20 GMT
Post by Hannibal on Feb 22, 2017 12:43:20 GMT
There are 2 by-elections tomorrow in 'safe' Labour seats. The pollsters are saying that Labour could lose one or both of them. I expect Labour to sneak in in both of them, but if they lose either and Corbyn doesn't step down then I think the Labour Party is finished, even as opposition.
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Corbyn
Feb 22, 2017 12:58:15 GMT
Post by Lobster on Feb 22, 2017 12:58:15 GMT
I do wonder if eventually Labour will have to split into two different parties - perhaps a Corbynite/Green merge and a Blairite/Lib Dem merge. The only problem is that the big winners if that happened would be the Tories.
The ideal situation for UK politics would be for the Tories to do the same, and perhaps have a right-of-center, socially liberal Tory party and a traditional Tory/UKIP one. Four big parties would be much better for the voter than two, and would pretty much do away with 'safe seats', but it's sadly never going to happen because as long as one of the two is in power, they have no desire to split.
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Corbyn
Feb 23, 2017 18:10:53 GMT
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Post by Zvonimir Boban on Feb 23, 2017 18:10:53 GMT
Big night ahead for Labour me thinks. Huge by-elections in Stoke-on-Trent Central and Copeland today. I'm hopeful that they can hold both personally. Surely Stoke-on-Trent won't vote for Paul Nuttal after the last fortnights revelations whilst I think Copeland is too close to call by all accounts. If Copeland does fall to tories after May's awful visit up there last week plus the potential destruction of the NHS in the area than it points to a bleak future of politics of compassion in England (in my opinion).
Maybe too much can be read into by-elections after the recent examples of Richmond (Lib Dems gaining the seat on a pro-Euro platform has seemingly done nothing to prevent May et all going down the "hard brexit" road) whilst Sleaford was fairly uneventful but should Labour lose either/both seats then the pressure will get ramped up even more on Corbyn from his enemies.
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Corbyn
Feb 23, 2017 23:27:43 GMT
Post by Deva Chanter on Feb 23, 2017 23:27:43 GMT
I personally think Labour will hold both Copeland and certainly Stoke-on-Trent Central - but even if they lost both Corbyn wouldn't be in much trouble. There is absolutely no 'heir' to his leadership and nor is there any desire amongst grassroots Labour members to replace him. Early reports this evening suggesting that Labour have held both Copeland and Stoke-on-Trent Central. |
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Corbyn
Feb 23, 2017 23:38:38 GMT
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Post by Zvonimir Boban on Feb 23, 2017 23:38:38 GMT
I personally think Labour will hold both Copeland and certainly Stoke-on-Trent Central - but even if they lost both Corbyn wouldn't be in much trouble. There is absolutely no 'heir' to his leadership and nor is there any desire amongst grassroots Labour members to replace him. Early reports this evening suggesting that Labour have held both Copeland and Stoke-on-Trent Central. Fingers crossed. I'd bloody love that to happen! |
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Corbyn
Feb 24, 2017 0:46:06 GMT
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Post by Zvonimir Boban on Feb 24, 2017 0:46:06 GMT
Looks as if the mood has changed. Copeland expected to fall to the tories but Stoke-on-Trent central currently expected to be held with a strong majority. We'll see what we wake up to tomorrow though
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Corbyn
Feb 24, 2017 7:36:30 GMT
Post by Lobster on Feb 24, 2017 7:36:30 GMT
Elections have become like some overnight horror where you wake up thinking "what the hell have the general public done now?"
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Corbyn
Feb 24, 2017 7:44:51 GMT
Post by Hannibal on Feb 24, 2017 7:44:51 GMT
Th Labour Party is DEAD R.I.P.
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Post by Ian H Block on Feb 24, 2017 8:15:01 GMT
Th Labour Party is DEAD R.I.P. What a load of rubbish. Whilst Copeland wasn't a great result, it was a marginal with exceptional local factors (nuclear industry). I am heartened that Labour comfortably beat UKIP in Stoke. Good to see the politics of hate and division gaining such little traction, despite the best intentions of the BBC and right wing press. |
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Post by Captain Duff on Feb 24, 2017 9:30:06 GMT
Th Labour Party is DEAD R.I.P. Actually very wide of the mark and for a number of key reasons: 1. UKIP are finished. If they couldn't win Stoke then they now can't win anywhere and the strategy of taking votes from Labour is in tatters. Equally now that the Tories have embraced Brexit they can't take votes from them either as the old 'working class Tory' elements will stay as just that. They have nowhere to go and will become increasingly split and irrelevant. 2. The Lib-Dems did nothing and are equally going nowhere. Their anti-democratic call to stop the Brexit referendum result may have played well with a few la-di-da types in London but going forward and with Brexit a certainty they are likely to become as irrelevant as the ukips. 3. In England at least only two parties now matter, the Tories and Labour. Currently the Tories appear to have all the cards, but they are more vulnerable than the media would lead you to believe. May's decision to climb into bed with the madman in the White House is likely to blow up (literally). The mounting NHS crisis is soon to be matched by a schools crisis due to the mess the Tories have made of teacher recruitment, retention and a massive funding shortfall that is now starting to hit. Brexit and trade deals remain another area where things could easily go very wrong. 4. And based the fact that the ukips and lib-dems are finished, if people want to vote against the government that only leaves Labour, who thanks to now being the largest political party in Europe (more than half a million individual members not counting the trade union affiliated ones) has the resources to win. So yes, Copeland was a bad result, but in the longer term the Stoke victory will I'm convinced be seen as historically decisive. |
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Corbyn
Feb 24, 2017 14:20:53 GMT
Post by Derry Blue on Feb 24, 2017 14:20:53 GMT
I think next weeks by-elections are going to prove decisive for Corbyn. If he loses both (maybe even just one of them) its going to be increasingly hard to claim he can lead Labour back to election success. My gut feeling is they will very narrowly beat off UKIP in Stoke-on-Trent but lose to the tories in Copeland. I desperately hope to be wrong though on the later result. Personally I'm a Corbynite. I believe he is fighting a losing battle though in a country where the narrative seems more and more controlled by those at The Daily Mail, Murdoch empire and large parts of the BBC. I actually admire Corbyn greatly, he destroyed May at PMQs last week over the alledged "sweetheart" deal in Surrey but within hours the main topic had become Clive Lewis resigning from the shadow cabinet. This on the same day Boris Johnson et al had voted against giving £350m p/w to the NHS. Incredible. I think they'll lose both seats. It's a shame I got the Stoke result wrong. |
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Corbyn
Feb 24, 2017 16:30:26 GMT
via mobile
Post by Zvonimir Boban on Feb 24, 2017 16:30:26 GMT
I think they'll lose both seats. It's a shame I got the Stoke result wrong. A shame to you maybe. Fortunately Paul Nuttal showed what a complete clown he is costing them a shot at Stoke-on-Trent central. |
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Post by Lobster on Feb 24, 2017 17:29:50 GMT
I hope UKIP stick with Nuttall because he's a total fool. Farage at least has a bit of charisma and is a good speaker, Nuttall is just that Uncle Knobhead who you wouldn't want to leave the kids with.
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Corbyn
Feb 24, 2017 18:44:29 GMT
Post by Hannibal on Feb 24, 2017 18:44:29 GMT
Th Labour Party is DEAD R.I.P. Actually very wide of the mark and for a number of key reasons: 1. UKIP are finished. If they couldn't win Stoke then they now can't win anywhere and the strategy of taking votes from Labour is in tatters. Equally now that the Tories have embraced Brexit they can't take votes from them either as the old 'working class Tory' elements will stay as just that. They have nowhere to go and will become increasingly split and irrelevant. 2. The Lib-Dems did nothing and are equally going nowhere. Their anti-democratic call to stop the Brexit referendum result may have played well with a few la-di-da types in London but going forward and with Brexit a certainty they are likely to become as irrelevant as the ukips. 3. In England at least only two parties now matter, the Tories and Labour. Currently the Tories appear to have all the cards, but they are more vulnerable than the media would lead you to believe. May's decision to climb into bed with the madman in the White House is likely to blow up (literally). The mounting NHS crisis is soon to be matched by a schools crisis due to the mess the Tories have made of teacher recruitment, retention and a massive funding shortfall that is now starting to hit. Brexit and trade deals remain another area where things could easily go very wrong. 4. And based the fact that the ukips and lib-dems are finished, if people want to vote against the government that only leaves Labour, who thanks to now being the largest political party in Europe (more than half a million individual members not counting the trade union affiliated ones) has the resources to win. So yes, Copeland was a bad result, but in the longer term the Stoke victory will I'm convinced be seen as historically decisive. Despite the Tories messing up just about everything Labour couldn't retain a seat they've always held. The Labour Party has been hijacked by the left just as they were in the 80s in Liverpool, but they've now done it nationally through the £3 vote. Labour will be wiped out at the next election if Corbyn is still leader. Love Blair or hate him, in 1997 his policies nearly wiped out the nasty party. |
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Corbyn
Feb 24, 2017 18:58:47 GMT
Post by Deva Chanter on Feb 24, 2017 18:58:47 GMT
Corbyn would have won BOTH leadership elections without the votes of the "£3 vote" as you call it. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good story.
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Corbyn
Feb 24, 2017 19:14:45 GMT
Post by Hannibal on Feb 24, 2017 19:14:45 GMT
Corbyn would have won BOTH leadership elections without the votes of the "£3 vote" as you call it. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good story. You're probably right, which means that the electoral system is easily manipulated. I'm sure there are election winnable Labour MPs, but do you seriously think Corbyn is one of them? |
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Corbyn
Feb 24, 2017 20:31:34 GMT
Post by Derry Blue on Feb 24, 2017 20:31:34 GMT
It's a shame I got the Stoke result wrong. A shame to you maybe. Fortunately Paul Nuttal showed what a complete clown he is costing them a shot at Stoke-on-Trent central. I absolutely agree with you about Nuttal. UKIP are a one (or two) creditable candidate party. What a pity he was the best they could offer Stoke. Mind you, how bad do Labour have to be before the people there reject them? |
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Corbyn
Feb 24, 2017 23:14:36 GMT
Post by Deva Chanter on Feb 24, 2017 23:14:36 GMT
Corbyn would have won BOTH leadership elections without the votes of the "£3 vote" as you call it. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good story. You're probably right, which means that the electoral system is easily manipulated. I'm sure there are election winnable Labour MPs, but do you seriously think Corbyn is one of them? I genuinely don't believe there is a single election winnable Labour MP (for 2020), and that includes Jeremy Corbyn. The party's destruction in Scotland means winning in 2020 is almost impossible. Winning in 2025 is probably only marginally more likely, although you can never say never. Even in the best case scenario, they would almost certainly be reliant upon a coalition with the SNP in either of those cases. I think Corbyn and his inner circle are very well aware that they aren't going to win in 2020 and that the real battle is to institutionally strengthen the left of the party so that they can mount a credible challenge in 2025, or even 2030. I personally think their efforts are likely to be futile - I think Labour's days as a major force are probably numbered for a variety of reasons - the most important being that I believe they are viewed amongst the general public as the epitome of the 'establishment'. Corbyn has come along a little too late to be able to change that, no matter how anti-establishment he is. Years of parachuting moderate posh-boys like Tristram Hunt into seats that they have absolutely no affinity or connection to alongside the dishonest, spin politics of the Blair years has left huge swathes of Labour's core constituency, the working class, almost completely alienated from the party. And that's why nowadays, it is pretty easy to find working class people without two penny's to rub together proudly proclaiming they are voting Tory. Their only real hope is to accept that they are in their 'wilderness years', as the Tory's were post-Major, and to use that time to reform the party root and branch, ridding it of the remaining vestiges of the 'establishment' and replacing Corbyn in the medium term with a fairly new MP who has no connection to those years of dishonest politics - somebody like Angela Rayner is probably their best bet. |
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Corbyn
Feb 25, 2017 11:41:01 GMT
Post by Hannibal on Feb 25, 2017 11:41:01 GMT
You're probably right, which means that the electoral system is easily manipulated. I'm sure there are election winnable Labour MPs, but do you seriously think Corbyn is one of them? I genuinely don't believe there is a single election winnable Labour MP (for 2020), and that includes Jeremy Corbyn. The party's destruction in Scotland means winning in 2020 is almost impossible. Winning in 2025 is probably only marginally more likely, although you can never say never. Even in the best case scenario, they would almost certainly be reliant upon a coalition with the SNP in either of those cases. I think Corbyn and his inner circle are very well aware that they aren't going to win in 2020 and that the real battle is to institutionally strengthen the left of the party so that they can mount a credible challenge in 2025, or even 2030. I personally think their efforts are likely to be futile - I think Labour's days as a major force are probably numbered for a variety of reasons - the most important being that I believe they are viewed amongst the general public as the epitome of the 'establishment'. Corbyn has come along a little too late to be able to change that, no matter how anti-establishment he is. Years of parachuting moderate posh-boys like Tristram Hunt into seats that they have absolutely no affinity or connection to alongside the dishonest, spin politics of the Blair years has left huge swathes of Labour's core constituency, the working class, almost completely alienated from the party. And that's why nowadays, it is pretty easy to find working class people without two penny's to rub together proudly proclaiming they are voting Tory. Their only real hope is to accept that they are in their 'wilderness years', as the Tory's were post-Major, and to use that time to reform the party root and branch, ridding it of the remaining vestiges of the 'establishment' and replacing Corbyn in the medium term with a fairly new MP who has no connection to those years of dishonest politics - somebody like Angela Rayner is probably their best bet. I can't disagree with any of that Deva Chanter. I wrongly assumed you were a Corbyn supporter. I'm just an Anti-Tory and I was in 7th heaven in May 1997 when all those horrible Tories were falling like flies, so I guess you're right this is the payback. The 'I'm All Right Society' that votes Tory are going to be well served. In the meantime the Tories are starving everything of decent funding and the prospects for the next generation of less well off youngsters doesn't bear thinking about. It's about time we had a political assassination methinks. |
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Corbyn
Feb 25, 2017 12:00:47 GMT
via mobile
Post by Zvonimir Boban on Feb 25, 2017 12:00:47 GMT
I genuinely don't believe there is a single election winnable Labour MP (for 2020), and that includes Jeremy Corbyn. The party's destruction in Scotland means winning in 2020 is almost impossible. Winning in 2025 is probably only marginally more likely, although you can never say never. Even in the best case scenario, they would almost certainly be reliant upon a coalition with the SNP in either of those cases. I think Corbyn and his inner circle are very well aware that they aren't going to win in 2020 and that the real battle is to institutionally strengthen the left of the party so that they can mount a credible challenge in 2025, or even 2030. I personally think their efforts are likely to be futile - I think Labour's days as a major force are probably numbered for a variety of reasons - the most important being that I believe they are viewed amongst the general public as the epitome of the 'establishment'. Corbyn has come along a little too late to be able to change that, no matter how anti-establishment he is. Years of parachuting moderate posh-boys like Tristram Hunt into seats that they have absolutely no affinity or connection to alongside the dishonest, spin politics of the Blair years has left huge swathes of Labour's core constituency, the working class, almost completely alienated from the party. And that's why nowadays, it is pretty easy to find working class people without two penny's to rub together proudly proclaiming they are voting Tory. Their only real hope is to accept that they are in their 'wilderness years', as the Tory's were post-Major, and to use that time to reform the party root and branch, ridding it of the remaining vestiges of the 'establishment' and replacing Corbyn in the medium term with a fairly new MP who has no connection to those years of dishonest politics - somebody like Angela Rayner is probably their best bet. I can't disagree with any of that Deva Chanter. I wrongly assumed you were a Corbyn supporter. I'm just an Anti-Tory and I was in 7th heaven in May 1997 when all those horrible Tories were falling like flies, so I guess you're right this is the payback. The 'I'm All Right Society' that votes Tory are going to be well served. In the meantime the Tories are starving everything of decent funding and the prospects for the next generation of less well off youngsters doesn't bear thinking about. It's about time we had a political assassination methinks. There was a political assassination less than 12 months ago. Poor taste Perm. |
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Corbyn
Feb 26, 2017 8:18:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by Alexander Lukashenko on Feb 26, 2017 8:18:41 GMT
Th Labour Party is DEAD R.I.P. Actually very wide of the mark and for a number of key reasons: 1. UKIP are finished. If they couldn't win Stoke then they now can't win anywhere and the strategy of taking votes from Labour is in tatters. Equally now that the Tories have embraced Brexit they can't take votes from them either as the old 'working class Tory' elements will stay as just that. They have nowhere to go and will become increasingly split and irrelevant. 2. The Lib-Dems did nothing and are equally going nowhere. Their anti-democratic call to stop the Brexit referendum result may have played well with a few la-di-da types in London but going forward and with Brexit a certainty they are likely to become as irrelevant as the ukips. 3. In England at least only two parties now matter, the Tories and Labour. Currently the Tories appear to have all the cards, but they are more vulnerable than the media would lead you to believe. May's decision to climb into bed with the madman in the White House is likely to blow up (literally). The mounting NHS crisis is soon to be matched by a schools crisis due to the mess the Tories have made of teacher recruitment, retention and a massive funding shortfall that is now starting to hit. Brexit and trade deals remain another area where things could easily go very wrong. 4. And based the fact that the ukips and lib-dems are finished, if people want to vote against the government that only leaves Labour, who thanks to now being the largest political party in Europe (more than half a million individual members not counting the trade union affiliated ones) has the resources to win. So yes, Copeland was a bad result, but in the longer term the Stoke victory will I'm convinced be seen as historically decisive. You seem like an intelligent person but you're way off the mark here. Delusional. |
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Corbyn
Feb 27, 2017 9:07:11 GMT
Post by Hannibal on Feb 27, 2017 9:07:11 GMT
I couldn't give a toss what people think about my views regarding the creature Corbyn. In fact I'm 66 and worked all my life, got free education, earned enhanced pay for working nights and weekends, got a final salary pension, and I don't have to worry about money etc, etc. My son who works 13 hour days has to work all day Saturday and Sunday (so rarely gets to watches us) for no extra pay, didn't go to university, probably because he didn't think the cost was worth the hassle. I would like to think that this heartless government had a strong, challenging opposition, but Corby is a less-well educated version of Michael Foot. Yes ..... calling for Corbyn's assassination was bad taste, but at least I know at least one person reads my posts.
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Corbyn
Feb 27, 2017 9:46:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by Zvonimir Boban on Feb 27, 2017 9:46:41 GMT
I couldn't give a toss what people think about my views regarding the creature Corbyn. In fact I'm 66 and worked all my life, got free education, earned enhanced pay for working nights and weekends, got a final salary pension, and I don't have to worry about money etc, etc. My son who works 13 hour days has to work all day Saturday and Sunday (so rarely gets to watches us) for no extra pay, didn't go to university, probably because he didn't think the cost was worth the hassle. I would like to think that this heartless government had a strong, challenging opposition, but Corby is a less-well educated version of Michael Foot. Yes ..... calling for Corbyn's assassination was bad taste, but at least I know at least one person reads my posts. Who has remarked on your views regarding Corbyn? I merely suggested it was pretty distasteful to call for a political assassination less than a year after the awful incident with Jo Cox. On another note though, if Corbyn were to step down who do you think is ready to take the Labour leadership? I don't think Corbyn would lose a leadership election so it would surely have to be a hand over. Any thoughts on who you would like to see as leader? |
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Corbyn
Feb 27, 2017 13:36:11 GMT
Post by iandychesterfc on Feb 27, 2017 13:36:11 GMT
Return to the Millibands accept vote the right one in this time.
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Corbyn
Feb 27, 2017 16:45:59 GMT
Post by Deva Chanter on Feb 27, 2017 16:45:59 GMT
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Corbyn
Feb 27, 2017 18:25:45 GMT
Post by Hannibal on Feb 27, 2017 18:25:45 GMT
I couldn't give a toss what people think about my views regarding the creature Corbyn. In fact I'm 66 and worked all my life, got free education, earned enhanced pay for working nights and weekends, got a final salary pension, and I don't have to worry about money etc, etc. My son who works 13 hour days has to work all day Saturday and Sunday (so rarely gets to watches us) for no extra pay, didn't go to university, probably because he didn't think the cost was worth the hassle. I would like to think that this heartless government had a strong, challenging opposition, but Corby is a less-well educated version of Michael Foot. Yes ..... calling for Corbyn's assassination was bad taste, but at least I know at least one person reads my posts. Who has remarked on your views regarding Corbyn? I merely suggested it was pretty distasteful to call for a political assassination less than a year after the awful incident with Jo Cox. On another note though, if Corbyn were to step down who do you think is ready to take the Labour leadership? I don't think Corbyn would lose a leadership election so it would surely have to be a hand over. Any thoughts on who you would like to see as leader? I always thought Andy Burnham would be popular, but I'm told he wouldn't stand. |
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Corbyn
Feb 28, 2017 20:21:32 GMT
Post by Derry Blue on Feb 28, 2017 20:21:32 GMT
Who has remarked on your views regarding Corbyn? I merely suggested it was pretty distasteful to call for a political assassination less than a year after the awful incident with Jo Cox. On another note though, if Corbyn were to step down who do you think is ready to take the Labour leadership? I don't think Corbyn would lose a leadership election so it would surely have to be a hand over. Any thoughts on who you would like to see as leader? I always thought Andy Burnham would be popular, but I'm told he wouldn't stand. Andy Burnham doesn't know what he stands for. He twists whatever way the wind is blowing. |
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Corbyn
Mar 1, 2017 14:44:15 GMT
Post by Hannibal on Mar 1, 2017 14:44:15 GMT
I'm thinking of the guy that acted for the victims of the Hillsborough tragedy. That was Andy Burnham wasn't it? I felt proud to be a Labour supporter when the outcome of that was announced, even if we're still waiting for justice.
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