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Post by Al on Nov 27, 2017 7:52:38 GMT
Is a couple of players speaking out in the local press about how we're too good to go down (Like McCombe last week).
You want to talk? do the talking on the pitch and put a win on the board. I don't want to hear how much the players hurt or how they're determined to put it right. If you were all that bothered you wouldn't be serving up shite like those second half displays at Orient and on Sat.
Sort your bloody heads out and start performing or piss off out the door
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Post by bing on Nov 27, 2017 8:04:02 GMT
I'm not sure what the players could possibly say after a second half performance like that!
Maybe, "our second half display was dreadful - our first half display was OK - so I'm off to the training ground to make sure we get more of the latter in future - interview over!"
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Post by Al on Nov 27, 2017 8:07:23 GMT
I'm not sure what the players could possibly say after a second half performance like that! Maybe, "our second half display was dreadful - our first half display was OK - so I'm off to the training ground to make sure we get more of the latter in future - interview over!" A humble apology from them as a group would be a start, to recognise that they've not been good enough this season, that they've got us in this bloody mess and it's down to them alone to sort it. Maybe a bit of truth coming from them would be better than listening to the excuses and rubbish coming from them every week |
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Post by Harry Lime on Nov 27, 2017 8:27:21 GMT
Is that we've picked up some injuries in training, so have brought in more 18 year olds on contracts.
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Post by Hannibal on Nov 27, 2017 8:57:29 GMT
The only way we're going to get out of this mess is by abandoning the fan-owned model, which is the reason we're miles behind everyone else in this league. Get some investment in, ditch all the awful defenders signed in the summer and build a defence around Ryan Astles, preferably defenders that do the basics. Clean sheets are a rarity this season. Even with that though it's probably too late.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Nov 27, 2017 9:12:59 GMT
It makes absolutely zero difference what they say. I have no interest whatsoever.
Theyre not good enough and the only chance we'd have is if we shipped them all out for proper Conference players - which we can't afford to do.
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Post by Woody on Nov 27, 2017 9:37:26 GMT
The only way we're going to get out of this mess is by abandoning the fan-owned model, which is the reason we're miles behind everyone else in this league. Get some investment in, ditch all the awful defenders signed in the summer and build a defence around Ryan Astles, preferably defenders that do the basics. Clean sheets are a rarity this season. Even with that though it's probably too late. Totally agree, we don’t have the fan base with money to compete. The build a budget is testimony to that 2000 pound of which 90 pound of that was mine and 20 pound from my lad.... |
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Post by bing on Nov 27, 2017 10:00:13 GMT
Blimey Woody - impressive that!
It's an interesting debate re the fan-owned model though... In an ideal world, every club would be fan owned and therefore find a level where they deserve to be. Our task is made ten times harder as other clubs are awash with outside investment.
What's more important for us as a club - to operate in the highest division we possibly can or to ensure we'll always be a sustainable football club in a fan-owned model?
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Post by Al on Nov 27, 2017 10:11:10 GMT
Our model isn't the problem.
The problem is how certain people have managed to get away with doing the bare minimum for so long and without scrutiny from the membership. We could sell the club tomorrow to an 'investor' doesn't mean any of the real underlying problems will change. We could just end up having another bloke throwing good money after bad. At least with being fan owned people can be held accountable for their actions - what we need though are more CFU Members asking the difficult questions of the board and holding them to account, not asking braindead questions all the time about the price of coffee in the away end ffs.
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Post by Harry Lime on Nov 27, 2017 10:29:55 GMT
The model is a fundamental problem though. Given our fans general inability to actually "support" their club, we will always struggle against the rich owner clubs.
That doesn't mean that our model is the wrong model. Just that our fans need to be realistic about where we can reach. Especially as most of them don't do anything to change things. For every Woody and his lad, their are hundreds who aren't prepared to chip in, but are usually the first to moan.
If 100 supporters paid £20 a month into Squadbuilder (the ongoing one not the new one) that would bring in £24k a season. That would be an extra player. If 500 did that would be 5 new players. That is the way forward for a true fans owned club. The fans fund the club properly. The Board then run it properly, and appoint properly. We'd have half a chance if we did that.
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Post by waggoner on Nov 27, 2017 10:32:42 GMT
The only way we're going to get out of this mess is by abandoning the fan-owned model, which is the reason we're miles behind everyone else in this league. Get some investment in, ditch all the awful defenders signed in the summer and build a defence around Ryan Astles, preferably defenders that do the basics. Clean sheets are a rarity this season. Even with that though it's probably too late. In truth i think you are correct. Being a fan owned club is a wonderful thing, but it limits us in who we can sign, and what we can pay. We are the only fan owned club in this division and up until recently one of a dwindling group of part time clubs. We need investment to kick on and move forward. Yes i know what some are going to say, anyone can 'invest' in the club as long as it comes as a form of gift or donation. This of course is not going to happen because people who invest want either...power,or a chunk of the club. So why not at least explore these avenues to see if it is feasable to do so?. The model we employ at the moment is an 'existence or survivalist model', however that is all we are doing EXISTING. If we continue to use the model we do now we will continue to lose ground on everyone else, because we will not move forward due to falling crowds, thus falling revenue, and less and less public interest. We may need to think about a 50/50 model at least, because i doubt we will be playing much above Evostick standard for much longer the way things are going. We had a 7 year plan when we first started off in 2010 with a dream of getting into the football league. The real problem is that football has changed over that time, but we have not, we are being left behind. Much smaller clubs are throwing every penny they have at the playing side of things, you can see this by the state of their grounds!!. They do though have stronger squads than us because unlike them we spread our rescources throughout the club, instead of just using it to pay players. In short we need money from somewhere otherwise we won't survive. We cannot keep trying to squeeze more and more out of a forever dwinding fan base, it has to come from someone else. this romantic notion that someone should 'invest' for love of the club is a pissy pipedream, as is getting into the league or even staying at this level as a fan owned entity. Just nipping off to put on my hard hat!! |
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Post by Al on Nov 27, 2017 10:51:52 GMT
The model is a fundamental problem though. Given our fans general inability to actually "support" their club, we will always struggle against the rich owner clubs. That doesn't mean that our model is the wrong model. Just that our fans need to be realistic about where we can reach. Especially as most of them don't do anything to change things. For every Woody and his lad, their are hundreds who aren't prepared to chip in, but are usually the first to moan. If 100 supporters paid £20 a month into Squadbuilder (the ongoing one not the new one) that would bring in £24k a season. That would be an extra player. If 500 did that would be 5 new players. That is the way forward for a true fans owned club. The fans fund the club properly. The Board then run it properly, and appoint properly. We'd have half a chance if we did that. How often to they push it though?
It should be driven every day online, along with 50/50, CFU Membership, Seals Lottery etc. How often do you get an email from the club advertising those money making schemes or see a tweet or facebook post from the media team?
We all know about it on here, but then we're just a small percentage of the fanbase. The rest of them are out there. over 32,000 people follow the club on Twitter, and 12,000 on Facebook, how many do we have on this database?
Sustained, aggressive drive from the club is required to advertise whats going on at the club, and it needs to be done multiple times every single day so that its the first thing that people see when they log in for a quick browse on their break at work.
If we were doing all that above, and still struggling to get people in, still struggling to bring extra funds in and an increase in squad builder etc etc then yeah I would agree that it's on us as supporters.
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Post by Wortleyblue on Nov 27, 2017 10:56:08 GMT
The only way we're going to get out of this mess is by abandoning the fan-owned model, which is the reason we're miles behind everyone else in this league. Get some investment in, ditch all the awful defenders signed in the summer and build a defence around Ryan Astles, preferably defenders that do the basics. Clean sheets are a rarity this season. Even with that though it's probably too late. In truth i think you are correct. Being a fan owned club is a wonderful thing, but it limits us in who we can sign, and what we can pay. We are the only fan owned club in this division and up until recently one of a dwindling group of part time clubs. We need investment to kick on and move forward. Yes i know what some are going to say, anyone can 'invest' in the club as long as it comes as a form of gift or donation. This of course is not going to happen because people who invest want either...power,or a chunk of the club. So why not at least explore these avenues to see if it is feasable to do so?. The model we employ at the moment is an 'existence or survivalist model', however that is all we are doing EXISTING. If we continue to use the model we do now we will continue to lose ground on everyone else, because we will not move forward due to falling crowds, thus falling revenue, and less and less public interest. We may need to think about a 50/50 model at least, because i doubt we will be playing much above Evostick standard for much longer the way things are going. We had a 7 year plan when we first started off in 2010 with a dream of getting into the football league. The real problem is that football has changed over that time, but we have not, we are being left behind. Much smaller clubs are throwing every penny they have at the playing side of things, you can see this by the state of their grounds!!. They do though have stronger squads than us because unlike them we spread our rescources throughout the club, instead of just using it to pay players. In short we need money from somewhere otherwise we won't survive. We cannot keep trying to squeeze more and more out of a forever dwinding fan base, it has to come from someone else. this romantic notion that someone should 'invest' for love of the club is a pissy pipedream, as is getting into the league or even staying at this level as a fan owned entity. Just nipping off to put on my hard hat!! NWAS has just started another thread which to me explains exactly why you are both totally way off the mark going down the investment route. If we do revert back to the lower leagues then so be it at least we will have a club for our descendants to enjoy, because if we do go down the sugar daddy route again and it all goes wrong as it will this club will CEASE to be, is that what you want |
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Post by agl on Nov 27, 2017 11:08:09 GMT
Makes me chuckle when I read these posts about outside investors - who exactly would want to invest their millions in a struggling non-league club? As history tells us you just end up with egomaniacs or crooks (or egomaniacal crooks). There's no money to be made in football at this level. What exactly would anyone investing, say £2m, in the club get in return? It's up to anyone who cares about the club to do what they can -Seals lottery, quadbuilder etc. And if you can't afford it, then at least sell a few raffle tickets at work or to your mates. We should really be pushing that at the moment.
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Post by dmcnally on Nov 27, 2017 11:18:05 GMT
Our model isn't the problem. The problem is how certain people have managed to get away with doing the bare minimum for so long and without scrutiny from the membership. We could sell the club tomorrow to an 'investor' doesn't mean any of the real underlying problems will change. We could just end up having another bloke throwing good money after bad. At least with being fan owned people can be held accountable for their actions - what we need though are more CFU Members asking the difficult questions of the board and holding them to account, not asking braindead questions all the time about the price of coffee in the away end ffs. A good start would be to hold a CFU meeting not on a Thursday night for a change as many people can’t make that. How about a midday meeting before a Saturday 3pm kick off? Get everyone down early, make good money in the Blues Bar with everyone there for 3 hours too. There’d be good numbers as people will be going to the game so they’ll be willing to go to the meeting too. |
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Post by Deva Chanter on Nov 27, 2017 12:03:14 GMT
Our model isn't the problem. The problem is how certain people have managed to get away with doing the bare minimum for so long and without scrutiny from the membership. We could sell the club tomorrow to an 'investor' doesn't mean any of the real underlying problems will change. We could just end up having another bloke throwing good money after bad. At least with being fan owned people can be held accountable for their actions - what we need though are more CFU Members asking the difficult questions of the board and holding them to account, not asking braindead questions all the time about the price of coffee in the away end ffs. A good start would be to hold a CFU meeting not on a Thursday night for a change as many people can’t make that. How about a midday meeting before a Saturday 3pm kick off? Get everyone down early, make good money in the Blues Bar with everyone there for 3 hours too. There’d be good numbers as people will be going to the game so they’ll be willing to go to the meeting too. This is a really good idea, not sure why it hasn't been done already. |
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Post by kyle on Nov 27, 2017 12:05:05 GMT
I don't want to hear if you want something better than an awful team sell some raffle tickets
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Post by Harry Lime on Nov 27, 2017 12:09:44 GMT
The model is a fundamental problem though. Given our fans general inability to actually "support" their club, we will always struggle against the rich owner clubs. That doesn't mean that our model is the wrong model. Just that our fans need to be realistic about where we can reach. Especially as most of them don't do anything to change things. For every Woody and his lad, their are hundreds who aren't prepared to chip in, but are usually the first to moan. If 100 supporters paid £20 a month into Squadbuilder (the ongoing one not the new one) that would bring in £24k a season. That would be an extra player. If 500 did that would be 5 new players. That is the way forward for a true fans owned club. The fans fund the club properly. The Board then run it properly, and appoint properly. We'd have half a chance if we did that. How often to they push it though?
It should be driven every day online, along with 50/50, CFU Membership, Seals Lottery etc. How often do you get an email from the club advertising those money making schemes or see a tweet or facebook post from the media team?
We all know about it on here, but then we're just a small percentage of the fanbase. The rest of them are out there. over 32,000 people follow the club on Twitter, and 12,000 on Facebook, how many do we have on this database?
Sustained, aggressive drive from the club is required to advertise whats going on at the club, and it needs to be done multiple times every single day so that its the first thing that people see when they log in for a quick browse on their break at work.
If we were doing all that above, and still struggling to get people in, still struggling to bring extra funds in and an increase in squad builder etc etc then yeah I would agree that it's on us as supporters.
They don't push it at all. Agree it should be pushed at every game, every meeting and in a weekly mail shot. T is on us supporters, but we need to be led and reminded at every opportunity. Strange to think our Chairman is a Marketing professional. Hate to think what he actually markets. Bet we've never heard of it! |
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Post by Si on Nov 27, 2017 12:10:08 GMT
I'm 30 years old and in my lifetime supporting Chester City we were governed by Gutterman, Smith and Vaughan. Other than sporadic moments of success it's mainly been misery and a battle to just survive. Vaughan was spending beyond our means, but then (often half way through a season) would pull out funding and we'd end up battling relegation and not being able to pay wages etc. Gutterman was a total crook. Smith was just a fantasist who had no idea how real football worked. History suggests that if we suddenly decided to change model that there would be no hero stepping in to prop us up. And why should they? There is no money to be made in owning a non-league football team - it would have to be someone who has Chester in their blood and prepared to make a loss. Even when we were reforming, we had to battle against them Danish chancers. What we have is far from perfect and it does limit our ambition, but until we have a good crack at doing this ourselves then its far too early to be yearning for the lottery of outside investors. We just need to be smarter and see where it takes us. It might not take us far but at the very worse this club will always exist, and that's something you can't guarantee when you're owned by a businessman.
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Post by Al on Nov 27, 2017 12:17:08 GMT
How often to they push it though?
It should be driven every day online, along with 50/50, CFU Membership, Seals Lottery etc. How often do you get an email from the club advertising those money making schemes or see a tweet or facebook post from the media team?
We all know about it on here, but then we're just a small percentage of the fanbase. The rest of them are out there. over 32,000 people follow the club on Twitter, and 12,000 on Facebook, how many do we have on this database?
Sustained, aggressive drive from the club is required to advertise whats going on at the club, and it needs to be done multiple times every single day so that its the first thing that people see when they log in for a quick browse on their break at work.
If we were doing all that above, and still struggling to get people in, still struggling to bring extra funds in and an increase in squad builder etc etc then yeah I would agree that it's on us as supporters.
They don't push it at all. Agree it should be pushed at every game, every meeting and in a weekly mail shot. T is on us supporters, but we need to be led and reminded at every opportunity. Strange to think our Chairman is a Marketing professional. Hate to think what he actually markets. Bet we've never heard of it!Abso-bloody-lutely.
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Post by Lobster on Nov 27, 2017 12:17:54 GMT
A good start would be to hold a CFU meeting not on a Thursday night for a change as many people can’t make that. How about a midday meeting before a Saturday 3pm kick off? Get everyone down early, make good money in the Blues Bar with everyone there for 3 hours too. There’d be good numbers as people will be going to the game so they’ll be willing to go to the meeting too. This is a really good idea, not sure why it hasn't been done already. Yes, a very good shout. I think this is how FCUM do it. |
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Post by Al on Nov 27, 2017 12:19:09 GMT
This is a really good idea, not sure why it hasn't been done already. Yes, a very good shout. I think this is how FCUM do it.Don't tell the board that, they'll soon dismiss it if FCUM do it!  |
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Post by kyle on Nov 27, 2017 13:03:26 GMT
I'm 30 years old and in my lifetime supporting Chester City we were governed by Gutterman, Smith and Vaughan. Other than sporadic moments of success it's mainly been misery and a battle to just survive. Vaughan was spending beyond our means, but then (often half way through a season) would pull out funding and we'd end up battling relegation and not being able to pay wages etc. Gutterman was a total crook. Smith was just a fantasist who had no idea how real football worked. History suggests that if we suddenly decided to change model that there would be no hero stepping in to prop us up. And why should they? There is no money to be made in owning a non-league football team - it would have to be someone who has Chester in their blood and prepared to make a loss. Even when we were reforming, we had to battle against them Danish chancers. What we have is far from perfect and it does limit our ambition, but until we have a good crack at doing this ourselves then its far too early to be yearning for the lottery of outside investors. We just need to be smarter and see where it takes us. It might not take us far but at the very worse this club will always exist, and that's something you can't guarantee when you're owned by a businessman. I really hope you are right. Don't get me wrong, I would love the fan ownership model to be a success. I suppose the fact that there are so many areas we can improve gives a little hope. Its not as if we've not made mistakes or cannot do more. In the early days I was right behind the model, and took real pride in how the fans came together to pick up the pieces. Last few seasons have been an increasing embarrassment of a club and team. I'm really starting to question why I spend a significant portion of my free time and money watching rubbish in a stadium that is 2/3 empty. What do I get out of it other than frustration and disappointment. I don't even have the hope of it getting better |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 13:07:37 GMT
I'm 30 years old and in my lifetime supporting Chester City we were governed by Gutterman, Smith and Vaughan. Other than sporadic moments of success it's mainly been misery and a battle to just survive. Vaughan was spending beyond our means, but then (often half way through a season) would pull out funding and we'd end up battling relegation and not being able to pay wages etc. Gutterman was a total crook. Smith was just a fantasist who had no idea how real football worked. History suggests that if we suddenly decided to change model that there would be no hero stepping in to prop us up. And why should they? There is no money to be made in owning a non-league football team - it would have to be someone who has Chester in their blood and prepared to make a loss. Even when we were reforming, we had to battle against them Danish chancers. What we have is far from perfect and it does limit our ambition, but until we have a good crack at doing this ourselves then its far too early to be yearning for the lottery of outside investors. We just need to be smarter and see where it takes us. It might not take us far but at the very worse this club will always exist, and that's something you can't guarantee when you're owned by a businessman. I really hope you are right. Don't get me wrong, I would love the fan ownership model to be a success. I suppose the fact that there are so many areas we can improve gives a little hope. Its not as if we've not made mistakes or cannot do more. In the early days I was right behind the model, and took real pride in how the fans came together to pick up the pieces. Last few seasons have been an increasing embarrassment of a club and team. I'm really starting to question why I spend a significant portion of my free time and money watching rubbish in a stadium that is 2/3 empty. What do I get out of it other than frustration and disappointment. I don't even have the hope of it getting better New to supporting Chester mate? I've been doing that for 35 years |
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Post by kyle on Nov 27, 2017 13:14:53 GMT
Nope, unfortunately not. I've done the hard yards, macc, volunteering, working for the club. Been through all the bad times as you've described.
There are two differences now that are killing my enthusiasm. 1 - At least in the pre-smith days we were in the league, so the "product" was of a reasonable standard. We had big games
2 - I had hope. The owners would sell, McNally/Barrow/Ratcliff may sneak a promotion. Now I have none. Treading water at the bottom of the conference is the best we can hope for
I really, really hope you guys are right and the future is bright. You've made some good points that I agree with, but I just don't see anything other than a downwards spiral
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Post by poolepirate on Nov 27, 2017 13:19:16 GMT
i agree with the thread post about not wanting to hear drivel from the players but the manager has beaten them to it he called the second hand performance on saturday as a "blip" he has to believe in his payers as he is stuck with them
regarding the "build a budget" campaign it has been poorly subscribed to as the fans STILL dont know how the money from the last one was spent by steve burr and their attitude now is thanks but no thanks and you cant blame them for that attitude as we are supposed to be a fans owned club but seems as if its a secret society
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Post by Hannibal on Nov 27, 2017 13:27:49 GMT
i agree with the thread post about not wanting to hear drivel from the players but the manager has beaten them to it he called the second hand performance on saturday as a "blip" he has to believe in his payers as he is stuck with them regarding the "build a budget" campaign it has been poorly subscribed to as the fans STILL dont know how the money from the last one was spent by steve burr and their attitude now is thanks but no thanks and you cant blame them for that attitude as we are supposed to be a fans owned club but seems as if its a secret society Was that a Freudian slip? Did you mean second half or third rate? |
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Post by steveo1 on Nov 27, 2017 13:49:36 GMT
Is a couple of players speaking out in the local press about how we're too good to go down (Like McCombe last week). You want to talk? do the talking on the pitch and put a win on the board. I don't want to hear how much the players hurt or how they're determined to put it right. If you were all that bothered you wouldn't be serving up shite like those second half displays at Orient and on Sat. Sort your bloody heads out and start performing or piss off out the door Anyone remember Paul Turnbull at the start of the season saying the players are laughing at the bookies odds on us to get relegated. He wasn't the only one coming out and saying this kinda thing. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Nov 27, 2017 14:12:55 GMT
The only way we're going to get out of this mess is by abandoning the fan-owned model, which is the reason we're miles behind everyone else in this league. Get some investment in, ditch all the awful defenders signed in the summer and build a defence around Ryan Astles, preferably defenders that do the basics. Clean sheets are a rarity this season. Even with that though it's probably too late. In truth i think you are correct. Being a fan owned club is a wonderful thing, but it limits us in who we can sign, and what we can pay. We are the only fan owned club in this division and up until recently one of a dwindling group of part time clubs. We need investment to kick on and move forward. Yes i know what some are going to say, anyone can 'invest' in the club as long as it comes as a form of gift or donation. This of course is not going to happen because people who invest want either...power,or a chunk of the club. So why not at least explore these avenues to see if it is feasable to do so?. The model we employ at the moment is an 'existence or survivalist model', however that is all we are doing EXISTING. If we continue to use the model we do now we will continue to lose ground on everyone else, because we will not move forward due to falling crowds, thus falling revenue, and less and less public interest. We may need to think about a 50/50 model at least, because i doubt we will be playing much above Evostick standard for much longer the way things are going. We had a 7 year plan when we first started off in 2010 with a dream of getting into the football league. The real problem is that football has changed over that time, but we have not, we are being left behind. Much smaller clubs are throwing every penny they have at the playing side of things, you can see this by the state of their grounds!!. They do though have stronger squads than us because unlike them we spread our rescources throughout the club, instead of just using it to pay players. In short we need money from somewhere otherwise we won't survive. We cannot keep trying to squeeze more and more out of a forever dwinding fan base, it has to come from someone else. this romantic notion that someone should 'invest' for love of the club is a pissy pipedream, as is getting into the league or even staying at this level as a fan owned entity. Just nipping off to put on my hard hat!! Wrexham are fan-owned, so your initial statement is incorrect. They're not doing too badly either looking at the league table. The difference between them and us is summed up in Harry Lime's post - the fan base actually wanting to buy into the model which, ironically, posts like yours sum up. |
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Post by poolepirate on Nov 27, 2017 14:23:26 GMT
i did mean second half hannibal but perhaps second rate is more appropriate
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