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Post by Captain Duff on Nov 27, 2017 14:29:17 GMT
Wrexham are fan-owned, so your initial statement is incorrect. They're not doing too badly either looking at the league table. The difference between them and us is summed up in Harry Lime's post - the fan base actually wanting to buy into the model which, ironically, posts like yours sum up. It is a sad fact that more Wrexham fans buy into their model and the responsibilities that come with it than ours do, and as we see on this board a number just want sopmeone to wave a magic wand and do everything for them just like Vaughan, Smith, Gutterman et al did (happy days, not). For as long as I can remember many goats have had class jibes against us, that is they are the working class club and we are the posh Chester toffs. Load of nonsense of course, except that with this I do wonder. They seem to instinctively get the trade union collectivism type thinking of defending your organisation against everyone outside that makes fan-ownership work, too many of our fans judging by some of the posts on here don't. Why is that? Because they have never been trade unionists? Because they are Tories and instinctively don't get collective modes of working and thinking? Either way it is getting embarrassing. |
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Post by Imperial on Nov 27, 2017 19:39:03 GMT
Wrexham are fan-owned, so your initial statement is incorrect. They're not doing too badly either looking at the league table. The difference between them and us is summed up in Harry Lime's post - the fan base actually wanting to buy into the model which, ironically, posts like yours sum up. It is a sad fact that more Wrexham fans buy into their model and the responsibilities that come with it than ours do, and as we see on this board a number just want sopmeone to wave a magic wand and do everything for them just like Vaughan, Smith, Gutterman et al did (happy days, not). For as long as I can remember many goats have had class jibes against us, that is they are the working class club and we are the posh Chester toffs. Load of nonsense of course, except that with this I do wonder. They seem to instinctively get the trade union collectivism type thinking of defending your organisation against everyone outside that makes fan-ownership work, too many of our fans judging by some of the posts on here don't. Why is that? Because they have never been trade unionists? Because they are Tories and instinctively don't get collective modes of working and thinking? Either way it is getting embarrassing. Can you stop banging on about socialism for five minutes? It doesn’t work, it never has & we’re talking about our football club. Save your proselytising for the next general election. |
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Post by Al on Nov 27, 2017 20:07:36 GMT
Urgh Alex Lynch has already been at it in the Standard.
Stop it, just stop it now!
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Post by sirfred on Nov 27, 2017 20:10:42 GMT
I suppose Fan Run ownership is a bit like the old communist order really not a pot to piss in sharing what little we have around in our commune even the kit we have looks a bit raggity but hey better that way than a capitalist tosser as owner - and I'm not a communist by the way
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Post by Al on Nov 27, 2017 20:11:41 GMT
I suppose Fan Run ownership is a bit like the old communist order really not a pot to piss in sharing what little we have around in our commune even the kit we have looks a bit raggity but hey better that way than a capitalist tosser as owner - and I'm not a communist by the way Socialist, not Communist. There is a difference |
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Post by sirfred on Nov 27, 2017 20:12:27 GMT
Urgh Alex Lynch has already been at it in the Standard. Stop it, just stop it now! Stop what - enlighten |
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Post by sirfred on Nov 27, 2017 20:18:22 GMT
I suppose Fan Run ownership is a bit like the old communist order really not a pot to piss in sharing what little we have around in our commune even the kit we have looks a bit raggity but hey better that way than a capitalist tosser as owner - and I'm not a communist by the way Socialist, not Communist. There is a difference I know that but the pure communist theory was sound everyone equal and wearing the same clothes and had the same pay with collective ownership surely better than today's society |
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Post by Imperial on Nov 27, 2017 20:42:41 GMT
I suppose Fan Run ownership is a bit like the old communist order really not a pot to piss in sharing what little we have around in our commune even the kit we have looks a bit raggity but hey better that way than a capitalist tosser as owner - and I'm not a communist by the way Socialist, not Communist. There is a difference Communism is a form of Socialism. In this context you’re splitting hairs. |
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Post by Hannibal on Nov 28, 2017 15:09:05 GMT
Lynch is quoted in the Evening Leader as saying that we are now in a relegation fight.
Excuse me Alex me old son we were in a relegation fight when Jon (we beat Aldershot) McCarthy was sacked after 8 games and 7 points.
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Post by sqzl on Nov 28, 2017 15:48:41 GMT
The model is a fundamental problem though. Given our fans general inability to actually "support" their club, we will always struggle against the rich owner clubs. That doesn't mean that our model is the wrong model. Just that our fans need to be realistic about where we can reach. Especially as most of them don't do anything to change things. For every Woody and his lad, their are hundreds who aren't prepared to chip in, but are usually the first to moan. If 100 supporters paid £20 a month into Squadbuilder (the ongoing one not the new one) that would bring in £24k a season. That would be an extra player. If 500 did that would be 5 new players. That is the way forward for a true fans owned club. The fans fund the club properly. The Board then run it properly, and appoint properly. We'd have half a chance if we did that. Let's be realistic though, how many fans will pay the club £20 a month? People whinge when the ticket prices rise by £3 so i'd very much doubt many people would pay more than an extra gate fee into a squad builder. In theory it's fine, but it's not realistic. Then as well, you'll get all these people that say ''I'm paying £20 a month to watch the likes of Halls play sh*t football and he's useless - the money is being wasted'' In fact i can see all those sort of posts now, and the people who'd be posting it! You simply can't charge as little as £12 a year for CFU membership and then expect a squad builder of £20 a month across 500 fans. You should first and foremost think about charging a monthly fee for CFU, by DD. Offer much more exclusives for those members, including things such as a christmas half ST lucky draw, free matchday ticket draws weekly, etc. I see both sides, personally i think until we sort the way in which the model in run out, we'll be lucky to maintain National League status sadly. |
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Post by kyle on Nov 28, 2017 16:13:11 GMT
That is a sensible post. We need to incentive donations, with updates on where the money goes. I bought one of those loan notes (can't remember exactly what it is) because I got my name on the board in the club, in addition to wanting to help
We hear little from the club on where the money goes, or why we should donate. Sometimes comments by some on DC, as well meaning as they intend to be, come across as "if you want a better team hand over your wallet".
Some sort of prize draw could be effective, the more you donate the more chance of winning.
Also it's important to note that many people can't donate much if anything, it's tough times for many and just going to home games is expensive enough. We need to make people feel like a spare £5 is worth donating
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Post by sqzl on Nov 28, 2017 16:27:41 GMT
That is a sensible post. We need to incentive donations, with updates on where the money goes. I bought one of those loan notes (can't remember exactly what it is) because I got my name on the board in the club, in addition to wanting to help We hear little from the club on where the money goes, or why we should donate. Sometimes comments by some on DC, as well meaning as they intend to be, come across as "if you want a better team hand over your wallet". Some sort of prize draw could be effective, the more you donate the more chance of winning. Also it's important to note that many people can't donate much if anything, it's tough times for many and just going to home games is expensive enough. We need to make people feel like a spare £5 is worth donating I think this sort of thing is part of why we don't do as well as others in the fan owned model. It always feels like a 'If you want something doing, do it yourself' policy. People do simple things like point out clear failings in our method, straight away you'll get jumped on with 'go and run for the board' comments. There has to be a communal togetherness about the fan base of the club, for the fan owned model to work, and there isn't. You only have to look at the poll as to who we wanted our next manager to be to notice that we we're heavily divided in opinions. MB won the poll, with i believe 37%? Which means 63% of us wanted someone else. Of course a difference in opinion of normal and healthy for any business, but i think half the fan base wants us to throw our kitchen sink at this league and others want stability, it can't happen both ways in this model. People need to see that this is a business, in which we can't afford to go bust. |
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Post by superman on Nov 28, 2017 16:29:14 GMT
In reality we need to increase our disposable income by at least 50 percent, and to make better use of it than we do now in order to be competitive at this level. That means generating over £200k extra each season. Not easy!! Whilst all the initiatives discussed would add to the kitty and should d be considered, in reality they are not big ticket items. I have no idea how much leasing part of the car park out to Stagecoach would generate, but that is more likely to be a continuing guaranteed annual income stream, divorced from our success or otherwise on the pitch. I am also of the opinion that eventually 3G pitches will become allowed in the EFL. Whilst I still think that I prefer to see football played on grass, the economic argument for having a 3G pitch at the Deva might give us another significant sustainable income stream. I respect the opposite view that some will undoubtably have in terms of giving up some of our leased land, and in maintaining a grass pitch, but we really need to do something different. Does anyone have any other big ticket ideas? The club says it needs to "grow up" but seems either devoid of ideas, or scared to ruffle fans feathers by suggesting radical schemes and hopes the fans will come forward with the ideas themselves.
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Post by sqzl on Nov 28, 2017 16:33:30 GMT
In reality we need to increase our disposable income by at least 50 percent, and to make better use of it than we do now in order to be competitive at this level. That means generating over £200k extra each season. Not easy!! Whilst all the initiatives discussed would add to the kitty and should d be considered, in reality they are not big ticket items. I have no idea how much leasing part of the car park out to Stagecoach would generate, but that is more likely to be a continuing guaranteed annual income stream, divorced from our success or otherwise on the pitch. I am also of the opinion that eventually 3G pitches will become allowed in the EFL. Whilst I still think that I prefer to see football played on grass, the economic argument for having a 3G pitch at the Deva might give us another significant sustainable income stream. I respect the opposite view that some will undoubtably have in terms of giving up some of our leased land, and in maintaining a grass pitch, but we really need to do something different. Does anyone have any other big ticket ideas? The club says it needs to "grow up" but seems either devoid of ideas, or scared to ruffle fans feathers by suggesting radical schemes and hopes the fans will come forward with the ideas themselves. I see your point in regards to doing something different Superman, but those pitches can cost upwards of £400k, that we simply don't have. Partner that with the fact we lease the stadium so we probably can't even change the pitch without permission. What would happen hypothetically if the council didn't renew our lease? Okay....we're talking super long term with that one, but when talking sustainability for a club we have to think about future generations of fans. |
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