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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2017 18:12:25 GMT
Of course there will be those of the "not until mathematically impossible" disposition, but I believe the vast majority of fans now know there are NOT four teams worse than us in this league and relegation is a nailed-on certainty.
It's pretty obvious that some major mistakes have been made at all levels in the club which have let us sleepwalk into the situation we now find ourselves in and most of us recognise that major surgery (not a quick sticking plaster) is required to arrest the slump, stabilise the club and give us a fighting chance of recovery
This ain't a quick fix and may well be very painful to both individuals and club principles but the alternative, I believe, is a slow lingering decline leading to inevitable death.
By AT LEAST starting to plan for next season NOW we have 8 months or so to lay some proper foundations as opposed to a blind panic rushed job in May.
Big question however is how we go about it. I'm sure there are more capable people than me who have knowledge/experience/ideas as to what to do
I just now feel that a step back to move two forward in the future is our best and only hope for our continued existence
Any views?
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Dec 26, 2017 18:22:49 GMT
I agree we need to start preparation now and its why I'd suggest sacking Bignot. He's made a bad situation worse and is absolutely not the long term answer.
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Post by bonecrusher on Dec 26, 2017 18:24:02 GMT
No we dont accept relegation although it seems likely. We dont accept it and we bloody fight it (someone needs to tell the playets this), on the pitch at least.
Off the field we definitely need a plan for what seems probable.
But don't hold your breath.
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Post by Lobster on Dec 26, 2017 18:30:56 GMT
I agree we need to start preparation now and its why I'd suggest sacking Bignot. He's made a bad situation worse and is absolutely not the long term answer. I'd argue that goes against the idea of preparing for a new season. If we're accepting that we're down anyway, I don't see much point in sacking ANOTHER manager, appointing a new one and effectively spending the rest of the season paying off both McCarthy and Bignot's contract and someone else's as well. That's paying three managers at once for another six months - not a good use of funds if we expect to go down anyway. I'd say the only point of sacking Bignot would be if we really wanted to have a "stay up at all costs" mentality and gamble on appointing someone who can keep us up. This is kind of what York did last year and it didn't work for them. It's too big a risk for me. Plus I personally still lean towards "benefit of the doubt" with Bignot, although I think I'm in the minority now on that one.
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Post by billyw on Dec 26, 2017 18:33:29 GMT
I agree we need to start preparation now and its why I'd suggest sacking Bignot. He's made a bad situation worse and is absolutely not the long term answer. Agreed. Bignot is not the man to manage this club next season. He is no better than McCarthy who at least had the respect of the players. Did anyone notice the reaction of Shaw and White when they were subbed - they walked straight past Bignot and there is clearly something amiss between Manager and players. We were warned.
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Post by jb on Dec 26, 2017 18:37:25 GMT
Bignot lost the players at Kidderminster. Joke manager who is even managing to turn our superb right back into a poor player. What a bad appointment Bignot has been!
Another interview process should be conducted with a view to taking over from Bignot the day his contract ends.
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Post by rcb on Dec 26, 2017 18:44:21 GMT
I said at the time that the club was firmly in the last chance saloon, and looking beyond this season would be the end of the club I wanted. Graham Barrow was the only option. F*cked up by Maguire and so all hope was lost.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2017 19:16:35 GMT
I'm not using this thread to call for the dismissal of MB. Of course, others think he should go but everyone is entitled to their opinion. (Personally I think he'll jump before he's pushed and it could be sooner than some think)
I was merely suggesting that we have an "opportunity" if you could call it that, for us take a bit more time to re-evaluate our position and develop a well thought out plan ready in place rather than the "back of a fag packet" panicked attempts we seem to produce on a regular basis at the end of each season. MB may be a part of it, who knows? But life in the Conference North needs to be really prepared for otherwise a slide further down the ladder is distinctly possible.
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Post by Jack on Dec 26, 2017 20:47:39 GMT
I agree we need to start preparation now and its why I'd suggest sacking Bignot. He's made a bad situation worse and is absolutely not the long term answer. Agreed. Bignot is not the man to manage this club next season. He is no better than McCarthy who at least had the respect of the players. Did anyone notice the reaction of Shaw and White when they were subbed - they walked straight past Bignot and there is clearly something amiss between Manager and players. We were warned. He had the respect of the players because he was a weak, doormat of a man. Put up with constantly appauling performances and kept telling them all how terrific they had been, just to try and be their mate. For all of the things he has done wrong, if Bignot has told a few of them a home truth or two then I back him 100% on that.
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Post by Harry Lime on Dec 26, 2017 21:05:18 GMT
What we shouldn't do is spend money we don't have in an attempt to stay up. That would put at risk any chance of a competitive team for next season. Whatever league we are in. Our budget will already be down by £80k, increased by our losses from lower crowds.
If MB doesn't have a contract requiring a pay off, I'd get rid now and make Shaw caretaker until end of the season. We our going down this season. We can't afford to put next season at risk too. I'd fear for our club if we did.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Dec 26, 2017 21:17:24 GMT
I accepted relegation back in September. It makes it a lot easier to deal with what's happening at the moment. I know I'd definitely enjoy Conference North more than this league anyway.
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Post by devadiva on Dec 26, 2017 22:43:46 GMT
I think battling relegation is preparing for next season in a way but as I said on another post we need to plan for conference north (with a heavy heart)
1. The Board needs sorting. We need to be able to operate financially on reduced gates. That means more money making efforts. We are pants at that now. Next season we’ll need to be better - all v worrying 2. Board appointment timings are wrong. They should be done at the end of the season. That would then give board members 4 months to devise plans and implement them before the start of the season. 3. Board plans should be on the club website and updated monthly so all can see what’s going on (or not) not just CFU members who can make meetings 4. Those with the time need to stop being keyboard warriors and show that they can do better than the board incumbents. That isn’t to say that they aren’t right but there comes a point when you either need to put up or shut up. 5. We need to tell players we are planning for conference north. Hopefully that will make some of the longer contract players start looking elsewhere. But we need a manager (MB or otherwise) in situ in early 2018 in whom we have faith - they will need time to plan so their vision can be put in place prior to next season. 6. We need to blood more youth players. They may not be completely ready but we will need them next season when we have no Sam Hughes money and 25% less ticket sales. At least they play for the shirt. 7. Once this change has happened we need to learn to encourage the new board and squad. Can we unlearn this as fans, given the last few years? 8. Dropping a league isn’t a panacea. In many ways we will need to be more professional next year in how we operate the club than we have shown we can be this year. You can’t knock the volunteers but at this level AND conference north clubs are businesses now and need to be run on a proper business like footing - whether fan owned or not.
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Post by devadiva on Dec 26, 2017 23:17:30 GMT
I’ve never written so much on DC than I have tonight.
But as someone has already posted, nothing can change without a leader/people willing to put their head above the parapet. Would be great to see some posts canvassing support but I haven’t seen one yet - has anyone else?
Those of us with too many dependents and not enough time for being on the Board full time should be willing to offer whatever time we have to those willing to run this club in a more professional way (which by the way isn’t incompatible with our fan owned/community/inclusive ethos).
I for one would be pleased to do this for the right team of people.
Are there any leaders out there.....?
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Post by Lobster on Dec 26, 2017 23:51:36 GMT
I accepted relegation back in September. It makes it a lot easier to deal with what's happening at the moment. I know I'd definitely enjoy Conference North more than this league anyway. To be honest, I kept it to myself, but I thought even before a ball was kicked that there was a good chance our luck would run out this time. I wasn't as convinced as some at the quality or depth of the signings, and I thought our faith in McCarthy - though somewhat touching in these times of very short patience levels in football - would probably backfire.
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Post by everhopeful on Dec 27, 2017 5:03:21 GMT
I said at the time that the club was firmly in the last chance saloon, and looking beyond this season would be the end of the club I wanted. Graham Barrow was the only option. F*cked up by Maguire and so all hope was lost. Maguire has done that to EVERY club he has been with, without exception. He's loathed by the supporters of every one of those teams that he's ruined. Now he's done it to us. If we don't show him the door, this club will die.
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Post by MOC on Dec 27, 2017 8:52:33 GMT
If relegation is pretty much a certainty then it’s a worry how low our crowds will fall. If we can only get a crowd of 1,600 on Boxing Day then it’s not inconceivable that we could be struggling to get much more than 1,000 for end of season games against unattractive opposition if our fate is sealed (realistically or mathematically). Given a fair number of those in attendance will be season ticket holders, the money coming into the club will be extremely minimal.
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Dec 27, 2017 9:13:09 GMT
I’ve never written so much on DC than I have tonight. But as someone has already posted, nothing can change without a leader/people willing to put their head above the parapet. Would be great to see some posts canvassing support but I haven’t seen one yet - has anyone else? Those of us with too many dependents and not enough time for being on the Board full time should be willing to offer whatever time we have to those willing to run this club in a more professional way (which by the way isn’t incompatible with our fan owned/community/inclusive ethos). I for one would be pleased to do this for the right team of people. Are there any leaders out there.....? Count me in. The fan owned model has checks and balences, it is about time they were implemented. I would be intereted in the views of Banksy and NWS, as to how we go forward? A 5 year plan needs to be introduced, focusing on the academy, a lower league scouting network to identify and develop young, talented players, with sell on value. The short term goal, must be to have a manager, in place for next season (and currently, the jury is out on Bignot) and a coherent plan. We need to hit the Conference North running. And an independent review of the actions of the board, which led to this years failure, so the same mistakes are not repeated, needs to be undertaken.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Dec 27, 2017 9:23:38 GMT
I've made no secret that I believe the views of Banksy as to how the club was run back in the early years are a major contributing factor to the sorry situation we now find ourselves in. He did a lot of good for the ethos of the club, and the match day experience but he championed, and still defends to this day, the whole "Conference as soon as possible boom or bust" approach which meant as a club we ran 100m in world record time before beginning to take our first steps.
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Post by agl on Dec 27, 2017 9:56:40 GMT
I've made no secret that I believe the views of Banksy as to how the club was run back in the early years are a major contributing factor to the sorry situation we now find ourselves in. He did a lot of good for the ethos of the club, and the match day experience but he championed, and still defends to this day, the whole "Conference as soon as possible boom or bust" approach which meant as a club we ran 100m in world record time before beginning to take our first steps. This is nonsense. The problems stem from the end of last season when McCarthy wasn't sacked. Of course mistakes were made but on the whole what we achieved was nothing short of remarkable. Chester got its pride back. The notion of retaining crowds while somehow building the club in lower leagues is fanciful. Riding on a crest of euphoria was exactly the right approach.
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Post by devadiva on Dec 27, 2017 10:09:01 GMT
I’ve never written so much on DC than I have tonight. But as someone has already posted, nothing can change without a leader/people willing to put their head above the parapet. Would be great to see some posts canvassing support but I haven’t seen one yet - has anyone else? Those of us with too many dependents and not enough time for being on the Board full time should be willing to offer whatever time we have to those willing to run this club in a more professional way (which by the way isn’t incompatible with our fan owned/community/inclusive ethos). I for one would be pleased to do this for the right team of people. Are there any leaders out there.....? Count me in. The fan owned model has checks and balences, it is about time they were implemented. I would be intereted in the views of Banksy and NWS, as to how we go forward? A 5 year plan needs to be introduced, focusing on the academy, a lower league scouting network to identify and develop young, talented players, with sell on value. The short term goal, must be to have a manager, in place for next season (and currently, the jury is out on Bignot) and a coherent plan. We need to hit the Conference North running. And an independent review of the actions of the board, which led to this years failure, so the same mistakes are not repeated, needs to be undertaken. Thanks and agreed. I await their response. In fact I’ve been so upset about all of this that I’ve spent a chunk of the night awake penning an email to MMcG in my head that I am now typing out to him. Although it’s largely an elaboration of what I said above. I know it may not make much difference but at least it is cathartic! I’m not going to claim to be a footballing genius but I come at this from the business angle - and the way I see the club being run fills me with nothing but dread for the future even if someone works a miracle on the pitch. I Have been an advisor to businesses for a v long time and what I see at the club seems disfunctional. I am more than happy to pass on the benefit of my knowledge to anyone with more time than I have and who thinks it may help. BTW - someone please remind me what MMcG’s email address is.
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Dec 27, 2017 10:24:50 GMT
Thanks for the reply. Keep me informed of developments and any ideas to take this forward?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2017 10:49:59 GMT
I think we need leadership in the boardroom, and a figurehead from the boardroom in public. Mark Maguire comes in for a lot of stick purely because he is the public figure. He is paid to be responsible for all aspects of the club, but should not have to do all the work.
We need a 5 year plan tied in to the "sustainable football club at the highest position" mission statement of the club. This should be a root and branch operation starting now, and should involve people from all aspects of the club (supporters, sponsors, governance committe, current staff, current board members, former committee members, former board members) and should be in place for the start of nect season.
I would look at all aspects of the club including
Football Community Fundraising Commercial Facilities CFU inc matchday experience Communication Junior Blues Academy Administration Disabled Seniors Etc
And where no committee exists one should be formed. All committees should meet regularly and feed back progress to the supporters on a fixed basis.
Anybody putting up roadblocks on ideas should be challenged, anybody not inputting should be replaced. There is more to being a director, volunteer or committee member than doing two hours on a matchday in your tie, and boasting about it on a CV or twitter biog.
This sharing of the workload was what got us through the early days. It also gave people a sense of ownership and belonging that I feel has long since gone.
Weve had that feeling before, and the folks who feel wanted and appreciated become your best advertisers through their preaching the gospel.
On the pitch success helps a great deal, but it isnt the be all and end all. It is a virtuous circle, the more energy and positivity off the pitch, the better we will become on it.
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Post by Matt on Dec 27, 2017 11:38:18 GMT
I would start by telling every single player that they don't have a future at this Club which might give them the kick up the arse they need. Based on this season not even The Dog N' Duck won't sign any of them. They've got 4 months to sort their careers out to find new Clubs.
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Post by oldnotdecrepit on Dec 27, 2017 11:39:51 GMT
I agree we need to start preparation now and its why I'd suggest sacking Bignot. He's made a bad situation worse and is absolutely not the long term answer. I'd argue that goes against the idea of preparing for a new season. If we're accepting that we're down anyway, I don't see much point in sacking ANOTHER manager, appointing a new one and effectively spending the rest of the season paying off both McCarthy and Bignot's contract and someone else's as well. That's paying three managers at once for another six months - not a good use of funds if we expect to go down anyway. I'd say the only point of sacking Bignot would be if we really wanted to have a "stay up at all costs" mentality and gamble on appointing someone who can keep us up. This is kind of what York did last year and it didn't work for them. It's too big a risk for me. Plus I personally still lean towards "benefit of the doubt" with Bignot, although I think I'm in the minority now on that one. But Bignot is hopeless.............planning for any future includes finding the right manager and you keep on looking until you do. Bignot will only make things worse, the sooner he goes the better
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Post by bethnalblue on Dec 27, 2017 11:41:43 GMT
I would start by telling every single player that they don't have a future at this Club which might give them the kick up the arse they need. Based on this season not even The Dog N' Duck won't sign any of them. They've got 4 months to sort their careers out to find new Clubs. Problem is the ones on 2 year contracts. We cant just get shut of them, And who is going to want to take them off our hands and match there current wages? Jon McCarthy the gift that keeps on giving......
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Post by Matt on Dec 27, 2017 11:46:40 GMT
I would start by telling every single player that they don't have a future at this Club which might give them the kick up the arse they need. Based on this season not even The Dog N' Duck won't sign any of them. They've got 4 months to sort their careers out to find new Clubs. Problem is the ones on 2 year contracts. We cant just get shut of them, And who is going to want to take them off our hands and match there current wages? Jon McCarthy the gift that keeps on giving...... Who is it that's on 2 year deals? I can only think of K. James?
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Post by bethnalblue on Dec 27, 2017 11:51:47 GMT
Problem is the ones on 2 year contracts. We cant just get shut of them, And who is going to want to take them off our hands and match there current wages? Jon McCarthy the gift that keeps on giving...... Who is it that's on 2 year deals? I can only think of K. James? Hannah, Turnbull, Mahon & Waters
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Post by Matt on Dec 27, 2017 11:57:16 GMT
Who is it that's on 2 year deals? I can only think of K. James? Hannah, Turnbull, Mahon & Waters It's not the end of the world. At least everyone else can be shipped out. I don't get the whole religion of Astles. If the mistake was made yesterday by Halls there would be murder!! He's Just a wobbley mess.
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Post by superman on Dec 27, 2017 12:00:14 GMT
Leadership and effective team work is key, both on and off the field, and we seem to be lacking in all aspects. The decent people who have the club in their hearts and have put the themselves up for and got elected to the board are currently floundering about and struggling to drive the club forward. Change and new impetus is indeed needed. Do we need a CEO, in my opinion most certainly, but they need to be allowed to concentrate on what they are good at and not be expected to be everything to all men. The CEO should be the official business mouthpiece of the club, but not the figurehead fan. I hope that there are people with the right qualities and sufficient time to take up the challenge, and that the current board members who can't deliver are genuine enough to hold their hands up and make way for fresh blood. Waiting for the next scheduled election of board members is too late.
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Post by btb on Dec 27, 2017 12:13:11 GMT
The two year contracts are a huge kick in the nuts. Forgetting waters who is probably on less than the others and was worth a punt the other players are so unworthy of those deals and are going to seriously hamstring any plans Bignot or any other potential manager would have for next season. It's a shame because the said players on paper are more than good enough for this division let alone the one below but for whatever reason they just don't seem to be up for the challenge mentally or physically. Let's face it, they're came here for Mad Jons easy street.
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