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Post by Dodge on Feb 17, 2017 13:48:47 GMT
I think people need to remember although there are a lot of great ideas being suggested we need the volunteers to make these ideas a reality! That's the biggest issue our model faces. People are less inclined these days to offer their time and volunteer for things, whereas social media gives everyone a voice and a forum to provide ideas. I think many believe that by purely voicing their opinion they are contributing. They're not. Absolutely spot on. How have Chester supporters not single-handedly solved the middle-eastern crisis or world poverty yet? If you have an idea, rather than typing it on a forum and getting angry that it hasn't been implemented by the already thinly spread board and pool of volunteers, why don't you speak to Mark Maguire directly about your idea and offer to help implement it? |
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Post by Lobster on Feb 17, 2017 13:48:55 GMT
I know it's been said above that there's no point talking about what happened in the past but the situation we are in now is, in my opinion, borne out of running before we could walk and spending unnecessarily obscene amounts of money in order to do so in an attempt to match a frankly dangerous target of FL in ten years. Did we really need the likes of Gritton, Proudlock, Trundle? As a club we are still not ready for the Conference. Some of us said it at the time but we're shouted down - we should've gradually built the club up to a position where it can be sustainable because relying on cup runs certainly isn't a sustainable proposition. We failed to take advantage of the feel good factor of the first couple of seasons. I know I've said it many times before but the smack in the face of a price hike 24 hours after Hereford went bust to reprieve our Conference status was a massive kick in the bollocks and pissed a lot of people off. The CT, as I've said elsewhere, are doing superb work with schools and junior teams but it's a shame this wasn't being done when we were smashing teams 6-0. That's been and gone now, but I really feel we've missed our chance. Another year or two to get the infrastructure built up lower down the leagues would've been better. I disagree that crowds would've disappeared had we not bought our way to three titles before we could walk (let's be honest we were no different then to the Salfords and the Fyldes are now other than ownership model). The chance has gone now because we are still punching well above our weight as a club and next season could see over half the division considered as big budget clubs looking at the bottom of League Two and the teams looking likely to come up plus the likes of Sutton's cup money. Staying in the division year on year is an achievement for now, that's how it is. But I really believe it could've been so much more in hindsight had we not blown the budgets and blitzed our way up the leagues. I wouldn't disagree with any of this, but it's all in the past and doesn't help the current board, most of whom weren't involved back then. In effect, they've inherited this situation, so it's about what we can do to make the most of it and ideally get things going again. And this season, though we're in poor form and it seems we're in for a small loss, has been a positive one so far I think. |
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Post by Charfield Blue on Feb 17, 2017 14:02:00 GMT
There is no such thing as investment in football. 'Investment' implies a return. Pumping money into a football club is not an investment. It's only done by those who want the power and status of being a sugar daddy or have ulterior (verging on criminal) motives. We have a sustainable model, and although there will be seasons where make a loss, there will also be seasons where we make a profit, providing the membership all pull in the right direction. The entire point though is that the model currently is NOT sustainable. It will only BE sustainable if we sell players or go on a cup run. We should not be having to rely on transfer fees and cup run monies for us to break even. There are too many risks associated to that. Sales or Cup run money should be there to add to what we already have in reserve so that we can reinvest in the club and grow sustainably. Have we not learnt our lessons from our past experiences? We're six years into this model and currently sitting on £120K so I think it's somewhat disingenuous of you to say it's not sustainable. When we set a budget and some would like to see us spend far more on playing staff, we don't factor in transfer fees received or cup progression - seems very sensible to me. This year due to greater supporter apathy in the form of reduced season ticket income and fewer pay on the gate punters we are going to be behind the budget. Further to this it seems Liverpool have stitched us up somewhat by intimating that we would get several reserve fixtures and this hasn't panned out. In hindsight it was probably a mistake putting this in the budget, but if we hadn't then Macca would have likely had around 12K less to spend. Therefore, if the likely sale of players at the end of the season occurs then some if it will have to go to cover the potential losses if we want to retain our emergency funds. If we don't bring in any money from transfers then , given a likely loss, we have to dip into the emergency funds. What will be very hard to sustain is football at this level if we don't find a way to increase income at the gate. |
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Post by Lobster on Feb 17, 2017 14:04:54 GMT
Big Si's post is about the best on this thread. Sadly a lot of the rest just seems like finger-jabbing and moaning about things we can't do much about, a bit like ranting at a poor person for being poor. There's nothing we can do about money that may have been foolishly spent in the early years. I don't remember too many people complaining at the time, and it's a totally different board now anyway. I just think we are where we are. Our attendances have always been a bone of contention and there may be small things we can do to improve them a bit, but it won't happen overnight. For the foreseeable future, we've got to work with what we've got and if that means a bottom six budget and even the possibility we can't compete at this level, well, tough I suppose. It might sound depressing, but I think maybe I'm less depressed than many for the fact that I can accept it. If, like me, you strongly believe in the concept of supporter ownership, perhaps a more effective way to vent your spleen is to get involved with groups like Supporters Direct and pressuring the people that could be giving clubs like ours a break. Write to the Conference and tell them to introduce Financial Fair Play to stop jokers like Forest Green running up seven-figure losses every year and still stuffing it up in the playoffs. Write to the Football League and ask them whether they really think parachute payments and two-up, two-down are fair on the clubs below. Even ask the FA to consider fan ownership rules like they have in Germany. The Bayern v Arsenal game the other night showed that it's not exactly harming the quality of their teams. What about money that continuously gets spent foolishly? I do not agree with the "we are where we are" attitude and to suck it up. It's attitudes like it that are one of the problems we face. It is OUR DUTY, no, OUR RIGHT as supporters and CFU members to question the club operationally. To just allow things to go down the pan with a "ho hum, nothing I can do about it" attitude will kill this club. You could argue it's your duty to do a little more than ask questions. |
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Post by Al on Feb 17, 2017 14:12:30 GMT
What about money that continuously gets spent foolishly? I do not agree with the "we are where we are" attitude and to suck it up. It's attitudes like it that are one of the problems we face. It is OUR DUTY, no, OUR RIGHT as supporters and CFU members to question the club operationally. To just allow things to go down the pan with a "ho hum, nothing I can do about it" attitude will kill this club. You could argue it's your duty to do a little more than ask questions. So why don't you ask a few more searching questions of the board and what the plan is to address this issue? Or do you enjoy sitting on that fence of yours?
I care passionately about this club, I still believe in the 100% Fan Owned Football Club for the Community at it's very core.
What I do not have is the time to offer more than I do, with a similar situation to yourself with two very young children, and a busy full time job which could be able to get even busier in the coming weeks.
Does that make my points (or anyone elses for that matter) any less valid? Does that mean my opinion and ideas mean nothing and should be discounted?
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Post by Blue Spider on Feb 17, 2017 14:54:39 GMT
The entire point though is that the model currently is NOT sustainable. It will only BE sustainable if we sell players or go on a cup run. We should not be having to rely on transfer fees and cup run monies for us to break even. There are too many risks associated to that. Sales or Cup run money should be there to add to what we already have in reserve so that we can reinvest in the club and grow sustainably. Have we not learnt our lessons from our past experiences? We're six years into this model and currently sitting on £120K so I think it's somewhat disingenuous of you to say it's not sustainable. When we set a budget and some would like to see us spend far more on playing staff, we don't factor in transfer fees received or cup progression - seems very sensible to me. This year due to greater supporter apathy in the form of reduced season ticket income and fewer pay on the gate punters we are going to be behind the budget. Further to this it seems Liverpool have stitched us up somewhat by intimating that we would get several reserve fixtures and this hasn't panned out. In hindsight it was probably a mistake putting this in the budget, but if we hadn't then Macca would have likely had around 12K less to spend. Therefore, if the likely sale of players at the end of the season occurs then some if it will have to go to cover the potential losses if we want to retain our emergency funds. If we don't bring in any money from transfers then , given a likely loss, we have to dip into the emergency funds. What will be very hard to sustain is football at this level if we don't find a way to increase income at the gate. |
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Post by Outside Looking In on Feb 17, 2017 14:59:36 GMT
We're six years into this model and currently sitting on £120K so I think it's somewhat disingenuous of you to say it's not sustainable. When we set a budget and some would like to see us spend far more on playing staff, we don't factor in transfer fees received or cup progression - seems very sensible to me. This year due to greater supporter apathy in the form of reduced season ticket income and fewer pay on the gate punters we are going to be behind the budget. Further to this it seems Liverpool have stitched us up somewhat by intimating that we would get several reserve fixtures and this hasn't panned out. In hindsight it was probably a mistake putting this in the budget, but if we hadn't then Macca would have likely had around 12K less to spend. Therefore, if the likely sale of players at the end of the season occurs then some if it will have to go to cover the potential losses if we want to retain our emergency funds. If we don't bring in any money from transfers then , given a likely loss, we have to dip into the emergency funds. What will be very hard to sustain is football at this level if we don't find a way to increase income at the gate.If we were still in the NPL as some would like we would not have sold Sarcevic for £120k and would not have had the cup run netting £100k. We would not have Alabi or Sam Hughes to profit from as Conference players. |
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Post by cooperman on Feb 17, 2017 15:32:15 GMT
people that ive spoken to have said they feel like a second class fan and that's why they don't come any more . its true to say there is a closed shop type of situation going on down the club, it was supposed to be for everyone and everyone equal but that doesn't seem to be the case
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Post by Firestick Frank on Feb 17, 2017 15:48:53 GMT
people that ive spoken to have said they feel like a second class fan and that's why they don't come any more . its true to say there is a closed shop type of situation going on down the club, it was supposed to be for everyone and everyone equal but that doesn't seem to be the case Similar talk from people I know too. Things like LL refurbs may help the club financially but don't help that feeling from the proletariat. |
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Post by silverblue on Feb 17, 2017 15:54:21 GMT
We need to get over the fact that the LL was refurbed, its in the past its over. What other way are fans made to feel second class, as far as I can see everyone is treated equal. There are no privileged few, we are all in this together
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Post by richard on Feb 17, 2017 16:03:04 GMT
I've got to be honest I don't believe in all this fan owned community club nonsense, it's all well and good until reality kicks in and all the happy clappers realise we haven't got a pot to p*ss in. We need investment and fast. End of.  Well, you can believe what you like, but there are a great number of us who believe passionately in this model. No investment ever will give us what we have now, which is control over our own destiny. If we fail, it's our failure and it won't be for the lack of trying to succeed. There are going to be seasons where we make a loss and some where we make a profit. Ill take where we are from that start in 2010, in fact had it been offered to us at the time, the overwhelming majority of true blues would have bitten their hands off. Well done to the Chair of the CFU for taking the time to come on here and explain himself in the face of some pretty unpalatable postings that would wind up a saint. To all those who won't step up to the plate to serve on the board or volunteer, I would say that of course you have the right to comment and constructively criticise, however, those that are serving as directors and / or volunteers give up a great deal for the well-being of our club and should be applauded for their efforts. It's because of the lack of such great people that we struggle in certain areas like fundraising and CFU membership. Every time I read comments about what the club should be doing, I would say right back at you. You are the club. It's us not them, it's ours not theirs. Do we really believe that our directors and volunteers have no kids, commitments, jobs, private lives? Of course they do, but they give a great deal of that up for us. So don't sit behind a key board, get down there and help them. I did just that and its great to be involved. What we have is special. Long may it continue with all the ups and downs that will follow. |
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Post by Buckley Blue on Feb 17, 2017 16:04:32 GMT
You could argue it's your duty to do a little more than ask questions. So why don't you ask a few more searching questions of the board and what the plan is to address this issue? Or do you enjoy sitting on that fence of yours?
I care passionately about this club, I still believe in the 100% Fan Owned Football Club for the Community at it's very core.
What I do not have is the time to offer more than I do, with a similar situation to yourself with two very young children, and a busy full time job which could be able to get even busier in the coming weeks.
Does that make my points (or anyone elses for that matter) any less valid? Does that mean my opinion and ideas mean nothing and should be discounted?
No, but you come across as a right moaning bastard who's not prepared to do anything about it. The people who run the club have jobs, families etc but they make sacrifices and try and make a difference |
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Post by Buckley Blue on Feb 17, 2017 16:07:26 GMT
I've got to be honest I don't believe in all this fan owned community club nonsense, it's all well and good until reality kicks in and all the happy clappers realise we haven't got a pot to p*ss in. We need investment and fast. End of. Well, you can believe what you like, but there are a great number of us who believe passionately in this model. No investment ever will give us what we have now, which is control over our own destiny. If we fail, it's our failure and it won't be for the lack of trying to succeed. There are going to be seasons where we make a loss and some where we make a profit. Ill take where we are from that start in 2010, in fact had it been offered to us at the time, the overwhelming majority of true blues would have bitten their hands off. Well done to the Chair of the CFU for taking the time to come on here and explain himself in the face of some pretty unpalatable postings that would wind up a saint. To all those who won't step up to the plate to serve on the board or volunteer, I would say that of course you have the right to comment and constructively criticise, however, those that are serving as directors and / or volunteers give up a great deal for the well-being of our club and should be applauded for their efforts. It's because of the lack of such great people that we struggle in certain areas like fundraising and CFU membership. Every time I read comments about what the club should be doing, I would say right back at you. You are the club. It's us not them, it's ours not theirs. Do we really believe that our directors and volunteers have no kids, commitments, jobs, private lives? Of course they do, but they give a great deal of that up for us. So don't sit behind a key board, get down there and help them. I did just that and its great to be involved. What we have is special. Long may it continue with all the ups and downs that will follow. And I have to agree with that |
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Post by cooperman on Feb 17, 2017 16:12:14 GMT
a lot of fans don't believe in the cfu and that's the bottom line. even in the past when I renewed my membership I didn't even get a new membership card. is there any advantage of being in the cfu to not being in the cfu? answer no, unless you include voting on what new shirt we should have.
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Post by Uninvited on Feb 17, 2017 16:18:01 GMT
I know CFU meetings are members meetings, but everyone once in a while, they need to have open meetings, where anyone can attend or watch the online stream - just maybe from this, those who are sceptical can see what goes on, can ask a few questions and have thier image of the CFU altered, and as a result the CFU may just gain some new members as well.
Just a thought
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Post by richard on Feb 17, 2017 16:25:29 GMT
I know CFU meetings are members meetings, but everyone once in a while, they need to have open meetings, where anyone can attend or watch the online stream - just maybe from this, those who are sceptical can see what goes on, can ask a few questions and have thier image of the CFU altered, and as a result the CFU may just gain some new members as well. Just a thought I can see where you are coming from here. Not a bad thought at all. Perhaps an I formal meeting could be used for this or failing that, just an open meeting. It would be interesting to see how many turn up |
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Post by richard on Feb 17, 2017 16:38:28 GMT
a lot of fans don't believe in the cfu and that's the bottom line. even in the past when I renewed my membership I didn't even get a new membership card. is there any advantage of being in the cfu to not being in the cfu? answer no, unless you include voting on what new shirt we should have. It's sad that you feel this way and you should have had your membership card. However to say that there is no advantage to being a member of the CFU or not being a member is with respect missing the point. Paying your membership fee makes you a part owner of the business. This gives you certain rights of voting and furthermore gives you a voice on important subject matters that affect the future direction of the football club. More than this it gives us strength in numbers, more available skill sets and greater possibilities in terms of recruitment of volunteers and directors. It's not much to pay for something that you care about. I guess we need to ensure that former members like yourself feel valued and that you are welcomed back. All this talk of closed shops is total and absolute rubbish. I do hope you will reconsider. |
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Post by Wortleyblue on Feb 17, 2017 16:43:14 GMT
a lot of fans don't believe in the cfu and that's the bottom line. even in the past when I renewed my membership I didn't even get a new membership card. is there any advantage of being in the cfu to not being in the cfu? answer no, unless you include voting on what new shirt we should have. The answer is yes. A lot of people ask about fundraising being a member is a way of fundraising as we all pay £12 which goes into the clubs coffers at present the number of members probably equates to about 50% of those that attend home games so if everyone joins the cfu thats a lot more money to the club as well as having a say as how the club is run |
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Post by Al on Feb 17, 2017 16:53:52 GMT
Look BB I won't apologise for caring about the football club I've supported for the best part of 30 years out of the 35 I've been on this earth. I care deeply about the club and to see that we're projected to lose money again.
I am rightly concerned about the gates and about the dipping into the cash reserves as should we all, but it seems from the meeting last night that some of the fellow membership in attendance couldn't give a damn, and that angers me. To sit there debating volume of speakers and litter when the board have just announced a projected 20K is disgusting. I was shocked when they started the Q&A with that, I'm actually quite angry about it now.
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Post by Ian H Block on Feb 17, 2017 17:04:05 GMT
Look BB I won't apologise for caring about the football club I've supported for the best part of 30 years out of the 35 I've been on this earth. I care deeply about the club and to see that we're projected to lose money again. I am rightly concerned about the gates and about the dipping into the cash reserves as should we all, but it seems from the meeting last night that some of the fellow membership in attendance couldn't give a damn, and that angers me. To sit there debating volume of speakers and litter when the board have just announced a projected 20K is disgusting. I was shocked when they started the Q&A with that, I'm actually quite angry about it now. The people you are denigrating are the ones who probably attend every home game, not the one home game a season merchants who love a moan because the Blues aren't top of the table. |
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Post by cooperman on Feb 17, 2017 17:10:23 GMT
a lot of fans don't believe in the cfu and that's the bottom line. even in the past when I renewed my membership I didn't even get a new membership card. is there any advantage of being in the cfu to not being in the cfu? answer no, unless you include voting on what new shirt we should have. The answer is yes. A lot of people ask about fundraising being a member is a way of fundraising as we all pay £12 which goes into the clubs coffers at present the number of members probably equates to about 50% of those that attend home games so if everyone joins the cfu thats a lot more money to the club as well as having a say as how the club is run apart from voting for new members of the board how else do I personally get a say in how the club is run? the reason the cfu membership is well down from what it was and fans have left is because of whats gone on in the past. I remember chris pilsbury resigning because his mate wasn't voted onto the board, and 2 weeks later he was co -opted onto the board !!I |
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Post by Al on Feb 17, 2017 17:21:41 GMT
Look BB I won't apologise for caring about the football club I've supported for the best part of 30 years out of the 35 I've been on this earth. I care deeply about the club and to see that we're projected to lose money again. I am rightly concerned about the gates and about the dipping into the cash reserves as should we all, but it seems from the meeting last night that some of the fellow membership in attendance couldn't give a damn, and that angers me. To sit there debating volume of speakers and litter when the board have just announced a projected 20K is disgusting. I was shocked when they started the Q&A with that, I'm actually quite angry about it now. The people you are denigrating are the ones who probably attend every home game, not the one home game a season merchants who love a moan because the Blues aren't top of the table. I don't expect us to be top of the table. Safety is paramount for us and will be for some time. I still expect people to use a bit of common sense though and actually challenge the board properly instead of asking inane stupid fucking moronic questions about the PA and litter. It speaks volumes about the mindset of some of our membership. Alan, god bless him, has had more of a grilling on here than at the bloody meeting itself and I do take my hat off to him for having the balls to reply. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Feb 17, 2017 17:24:21 GMT
I know CFU meetings are members meetings, but everyone once in a while, they need to have open meetings, where anyone can attend or watch the online stream - just maybe from this, those who are sceptical can see what goes on, can ask a few questions and have thier image of the CFU altered, and as a result the CFU may just gain some new members as well. Just a thought I can see where you are coming from here. Not a bad thought at all. Perhaps an I formal meeting could be used for this or failing that, just an open meeting. It would be interesting to see how many turn up I queried why we can't open it up on the top of this thread and you abruptly replied "members only." |
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Post by Charfield Blue on Feb 17, 2017 17:29:12 GMT
The answer is yes. A lot of people ask about fundraising being a member is a way of fundraising as we all pay £12 which goes into the clubs coffers at present the number of members probably equates to about 50% of those that attend home games so if everyone joins the cfu thats a lot more money to the club as well as having a say as how the club is run apart from voting for new members of the board how else do I personally get a say in how the club is run? the reason the cfu membership is well down from what it was and fans have left is because of whats gone on in the past. I remember chris pilsbury resigning because his mate wasn't voted onto the board, and 2 weeks later he was co -opted onto the board !!I If you can find a model out there in the English game where you can have more of a say, unless you're a multi-millionaire or crook that is, then let me know. If you can also point out when in the history of this club you could have had more of a say than now then let me know. I certainly didn't feel very empowered when Barnes and Cross sold the family jewels, pocketed the profits and left us with a scaled down ground half the size of what was promised. I didn't feel very empowered when a mad American took us over and made us a bit of a laughing stock. Certainly not empowering having minutes silences for gangland criminals or our funding being linked with the Cocky Watchman. In fact I can say I've never been more proud of my club and this is a statement made with eyes wide open, not with my head in the sand. |
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Post by Wortleyblue on Feb 17, 2017 17:37:33 GMT
The answer is yes. A lot of people ask about fundraising being a member is a way of fundraising as we all pay £12 which goes into the clubs coffers at present the number of members probably equates to about 50% of those that attend home games so if everyone joins the cfu thats a lot more money to the club as well as having a say as how the club is run apart from voting for new members of the board how else do I personally get a say in how the club is run? the reason the cfu membership is well down from what it was and fans have left is because of whats gone on in the past. I remember chris pilsbury resigning because his mate wasn't voted onto the board, and 2 weeks later he was co -opted onto the board !!I I know what you mean CM but I think things have moved on very nicely under the new board and the openness is second to none so lets close the chapter on the early failures of the CFU learn from the mistakes and all pull together. As for personally getting a say then I'm afraid its only the vote unless you can become a board member yourself but that is the same in all walks of life in the democratic world we vote for people to represent us and hope they do it in a way we are happy with if not then we have the opportunity to vote them out at the next election but inthe case of our beloved CFC that is only by being a member of the CFU. Now is the time to get right behind our club come up with good ideas to raise both the profile of the club and more importantly raise funds for the club firstly by becoming a member of/ re-joining the CFU |
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Post by richard on Feb 17, 2017 17:38:06 GMT
I can see where you are coming from here. Not a bad thought at all. Perhaps an I formal meeting could be used for this or failing that, just an open meeting. It would be interesting to see how many turn up I queried why we can't open it up on the top of this thread and you abruptly replied "members only." I think I said it was a members meeting and that's true. If we planned to open an informal meeting of just plan an open meeting, that would be fine |
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Post by marner93 on Feb 17, 2017 17:43:49 GMT
The people you are denigrating are the ones who probably attend every home game, not the one home game a season merchants who love a moan because the Blues aren't top of the table. I don't expect us to be top of the table. Safety is paramount for us and will be for some time. I still expect people to use a bit of common sense though and actually challenge the board properly instead of asking inane stupid fucking moronic questions about the PA and litter. It speaks volumes about the mindset of some of our membership. Alan, god bless him, has had more of a grilling on here than at the bloody meeting itself and I do take my hat off to him for having the balls to reply. Why don't YOU go down and pose these questions? |
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Post by cooperman on Feb 17, 2017 17:44:55 GMT
I queried why we can't open it up on the top of this thread and you abruptly replied "members only." I think I said it was a members meeting and that's true. If we planned to open an informal meeting of just plan an open meeting, that would be fine as for the community side of things jim green and andy ruscoe top of the shop full marks from me, a vast improvement. as for improving cfu membership and fundraising, theirs enough people down the club on good salarys, pick up the phone and and get calling and make it happen |
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Post by Al on Feb 17, 2017 17:55:32 GMT
I don't expect us to be top of the table. Safety is paramount for us and will be for some time. I still expect people to use a bit of common sense though and actually challenge the board properly instead of asking inane stupid fucking moronic questions about the PA and litter. It speaks volumes about the mindset of some of our membership. Alan, god bless him, has had more of a grilling on here than at the bloody meeting itself and I do take my hat off to him for having the balls to reply. Why don't YOU go down and pose these questions? I WAS WATCHING THE LIVE STREAM |
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Post by Buckley Blue on Feb 17, 2017 18:26:46 GMT
Look BB I won't apologise for caring about the football club I've supported for the best part of 30 years out of the 35 I've been on this earth. I care deeply about the club and to see that we're projected to lose money again. I am rightly concerned about the gates and about the dipping into the cash reserves as should we all, but it seems from the meeting last night that some of the fellow membership in attendance couldn't give a damn, and that angers me. To sit there debating volume of speakers and litter when the board have just announced a projected 20K is disgusting. I was shocked when they started the Q&A with that, I'm actually quite angry about it now. Not looking for an apology and I actually agree with you. I wonder what the age demographic at the meeting was as I suspect that had a bearing on the sort of question asked. |
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