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Post by lookingin on Mar 18, 2018 21:18:49 GMT
When we started our club all over again it was under the impression we could do it better. A ten year plan to get us back in the football league? So my question is how far down the pyramid are we the owners willing to let the club fall?
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Post by alancfc on Mar 18, 2018 21:32:32 GMT
As a fan owned club we have had 3 promotions and will have had one relegation by the end of this season, sometimes we need to have a bit of perspective. The '10 year plan' has never existed, it was just some hot headed statement with no actual substance.
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Post by chesterken on Mar 18, 2018 21:33:44 GMT
When we started our club all over again it was under the impression we could do it better. A ten year plan to get us back in the football league? So my question is how far down the pyramid are we the owners willing to let the club fall? Why would I be willing to let the club fall, but if things don’t go well I won’t be jumping ship or crawling off with my tail between my legs, I have been a fan since 1973 when my home club Ellesmere Port Town disbanded. I am going nowhere and I think a core of fans will think the same way
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Post by lookingin on Mar 18, 2018 21:59:07 GMT
When we started our club all over again it was under the impression we could do it better. A ten year plan to get us back in the football league? So my question is how far down the pyramid are we the owners willing to let the club fall? Why would I be willing to let the club fall, but if things don’t go well I won’t be jumping ship or crawling off with my tail between my legs, I have been a fan since 1973 when my home club Ellesmere Port Town disbanded. I am going nowhere and I think a core of fans will think the same way Our core of fans isn't big enough to sustain a league team. What I'm asking is how low in the pyramid are you willing to let our club play at?
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Post by chesterken on Mar 18, 2018 22:06:50 GMT
Why would I be willing to let the club fall, but if things don’t go well I won’t be jumping ship or crawling off with my tail between my legs, I have been a fan since 1973 when my home club Ellesmere Port Town disbanded. I am going nowhere and I think a core of fans will think the same way Our core of fans isn't big enough to sustain a league team. What I'm asking is how low in the pyramid are you willing to let our club play at? I personally have no control on how we finish and what league we finish in but I am no quitter, I enjoyed the Evo stick leagues on the way up I hope we don’t go back but if we do I will be part of it unless I end up 6 feet under before then.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Mar 18, 2018 22:23:06 GMT
Pretty much as per Ken who hits the nail on the head for me.
Football teams get relegated. It's part of the game.
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Post by lookingin on Mar 18, 2018 22:25:30 GMT
Our core of fans isn't big enough to sustain a league team. What I'm asking is how low in the pyramid are you willing to let our club play at? I personally have no control on how we finish and what league we finish in but I am no quitter, I enjoyed the Evo stick leagues on the way up I hope we don’t go back but if we do I will be part of it unless I end up 6 feet under before then. You do have control on were we finish and what league we play in? It's called money you and the core of fans you talk about could give the club £250,000 .That would help say what league we play in and finish. But you all enjoyed the evo stick leagues. So don't say "you have no control"
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Post by lookingin on Mar 18, 2018 22:29:17 GMT
Pretty much as per Ken who hits the nail on the head for me. Football teams get relegated. It's part of the game. That's right but how far down are you willing to let us go?
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Mar 18, 2018 22:31:07 GMT
Ok, I'll do it...
I'm not "willing" to let us go anywhere down but if it happens it happens and I'll be here supporting the club wherever we end up. Of course, I'll also be doing my little bit to keep the club playing at the highest level it possibly can.
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Post by chesterken on Mar 18, 2018 22:32:59 GMT
I personally have no control on how we finish and what league we finish in but I am no quitter, I enjoyed the Evo stick leagues on the way up I hope we don’t go back but if we do I will be part of it unless I end up 6 feet under before then. You do have control on were we finish and what league we play in? It's called money you and the core of fans you talk about could give the club £250,000 .That would help say what league we play in and finish. But you all enjoyed the evo stick leagues. So don't say "you have no control" We have just spent and wasted the biggest buget we have ever spent since we reformed and that’s got us relegated, so money is not always a guarantee of success
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Post by lookingin on Mar 18, 2018 22:38:28 GMT
Ok, I'll do it... I'm not "willing" to let us go anywhere down but if it happens it happens and I'll be here supporting the club wherever we end up. Of course, I'll also be doing my little bit to keep the club playing at the highest level it possibly can. So if having a private owner would get our club back in the football league "you would be doing your little bit to make sure the club is playing at the highest level"
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Post by oldboneze on Mar 19, 2018 8:19:13 GMT
Ok, I'll do it... I'm not "willing" to let us go anywhere down but if it happens it happens and I'll be here supporting the club wherever we end up. Of course, I'll also be doing my little bit to keep the club playing at the highest level it possibly can. So if having a private owner would get our club back in the football league "you would be doing your little bit to make sure the club is playing at the highest level" But then it wouldn't be our club.
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Post by agl on Mar 19, 2018 9:11:56 GMT
If we fall below national league north I would seriously question whether it's worthwhile. When we reformed my aim was always national league..proper grounds with segregation and atmosphere (sometimes), the chance to play decent teams. The Evostiks were great on the way up, but no great desire to watch games with 150 fans present. Partly selfish, as based a long way from Chester but if we can't sustain a team in the sixth tier at least then what's the point? Why put money into funding a team I don't get to see? If we go down again it will have meant another season of misery and recrimination and I wonder how many people would be willing to be on the board. I get the community side, youth teams and just having a club at all but for me the success of the first team is the main factor. Ultimately we need to get back into national league and find some way of being competitive, even if that means tweaking the model slightly while still retaining some element of fan control. The shame is that we should have been comfortable this season on a playing budget of £400k. If I still lived in Chester my argument would be different.
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Post by RonD on Mar 19, 2018 9:51:18 GMT
As a fan owned club we have had 3 promotions and will have had one relegation by the end of this season, sometimes we need to have a bit of perspective. The '10 year plan' has never existed, it was just some hot headed statement with no actual substance. Really? Steve Ashton quoted it - five years to get into the Conference and then a further five years to get back into the league - on the 'nearly kiss of death' piece on Football Focus towards the end of the first season. I'm sure it was the first board's plan?
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Post by agl on Mar 19, 2018 10:02:47 GMT
Nothing wrong with having an ambitious plan. Was it that unrealistic? Recruitment in the year we came up was poor - we signed too many journeymen who weren't as good as we thought (sound familiar?). Macintyre, Reed, Jarrett etc. We lost momentum as a result.
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Post by BrianVoletrouserCBE on Mar 19, 2018 11:51:54 GMT
The current model is a proven failure. Compounded that the club has been run like a left wing cabal, behaving like a bloated public sector body that is wasteful, ineffective and unaccountable.
The club must be opened up for strategic investors (German model) or private majority investors ( French model)...........otherwise the wilderness beckons.
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Post by Charfield Blue on Mar 19, 2018 16:44:16 GMT
By what measure do you believe that the current model is a "proven failure"?
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Post by Captain Duff on Mar 19, 2018 16:51:48 GMT
As a fan owned club we have had 3 promotions and will have had one relegation by the end of this season, sometimes we need to have a bit of perspective. The '10 year plan' has never existed, it was just some hot headed statement with no actual substance. Really? Steve Ashton quoted it - five years to get into the Conference and then a further five years to get back into the league - on the 'nearly kiss of death' piece on Football Focus towards the end of the first season. I'm sure it was the first board's plan? Yes, this is correct, it was widely discussed and had widespread acceptance. Certainly in my opinion it was sensible to have both a medium and long term objective, and remember instead of the Conference in 5 years we did it in 3.
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Post by alancfc on Mar 19, 2018 17:04:53 GMT
Really? Steve Ashton quoted it - five years to get into the Conference and then a further five years to get back into the league - on the 'nearly kiss of death' piece on Football Focus towards the end of the first season. I'm sure it was the first board's plan? Yes, this is correct, it was widely discussed and had widespread acceptance. Certainly in my opinion it was sensible to have both a medium and long term objective, and remember instead of the Conference in 5 years we did it in 3. It may of been discussed, but there was no actual plan. Anyone can say we will be at X in X years time, its just a sales pitch. To even contemplate a return to the League, we would need to have our own training facilities and full blown Youth Academy with a £100k P.A budget at our core (not the peanuts Callum's working with now). Thats without the long-term stuff regarding facilities, scouting networks etc. None of this was planned for, and I will never hold that against anyone because everyone was working the bollocks off, but this chronic lack of investment has been a large factor in our current demise.
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Post by rcb on Mar 19, 2018 17:31:08 GMT
By what measure do you believe that the current model is a "proven failure"? The club has been all but milked dry by Burr, then McCarthy, then Maguire. Numerous has-been journeymen, or indeed never-been journeyman, have been doing similar this season too. Over £100k for the sale of Sarcevic, and £130k for Sam Hughes to Leicester, and not a penny in the pot to show for it. Crowds regularly in excess of 2000 now dwindled down to little more than 1000. Total apathy in the city for a club that is by and large anonymous to most, and very little advertising or promotion to boot. Relegation almost certain in a season where a record budget has been spent, and you actually ask such a question? Quite unbelievable!
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Post by waggoner on Mar 19, 2018 17:31:11 GMT
By what measure do you believe that the current model is a "proven failure"? IMHO. The model is flawed because it governs what the budget is based on projected crowds, season ticket sales, matchday revenue etc. The model falls on its arse when we have a spectacular drop in crowds mid season with very little leeway in assets or money put away 'just in case'. So you then have the problems we have faced this season...falling crowds, less revenue coming in but a wage bill based on much higher crowds draining the life out of the club. A total fan owned cooperative model like ours will only take you so far, once you have a bad season and crowds fall..thus revenue falls there is no going forwards, only backwards. The model we have needs outside investment but this is risky because people who put money in usually want something for it. The fact is that most will not hear of outside investment prefering the club to go down the leagues rather than consider it. Football is a results based game, if you are not winning people walk away and i am in no doubt that IF we ended up playing evostick football we would struggle to get 700-800 through the gate. Bottom line? What people say on here is very different to what they say privately. I have spoken to loads of people at the ground about the club and how it is i;e ''we need an investor to put money in'' Now i know most will say i'm talking out of my arse, but i'm a fan owned model person HOWEVER not everyone is which is why people are walking away in their droves. My opinion (for what it's worth). The model we have is a 'survivalist model' it's a ''at least we have a club model''. Which is great if you like watching football at Lairds, Kendal, Ossett and Garforth. Sadly some want to watch us at a much higher level. There is an air of lack of ambition about the club at the moment.I really don't know the answer to our predicament, our crowds have dropped 50% over the last 3 years and i'm not sure how we can get them back whilst we are in decline, and we are in decline make no mistake about that.
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Post by dmcnally on Mar 19, 2018 17:33:34 GMT
Yes, this is correct, it was widely discussed and had widespread acceptance. Certainly in my opinion it was sensible to have both a medium and long term objective, and remember instead of the Conference in 5 years we did it in 3. It may of been discussed, but there was no actual plan. Anyone can say we will be at X in X years time, its just a sales pitch. To even contemplate a return to the League, we would need to have our own training facilities and full blown Youth Academy with a £100k P.A budget at our core (not the peanuts Callum's working with now). Thats without the long-term stuff regarding facilities, scouting networks etc. None of this was planned for, and I will never hold that against anyone because everyone was working the bollocks off, but this chronic lack of investment has been a large factor in our current demise. Why is that? Tranmere pay £500k for their academy and they're closing it. Ours runs on next to nothing and continues to produce some exceptional talent? Unless you mean something else i.e. full-time training or something.
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Post by paulie on Mar 19, 2018 17:34:25 GMT
By what measure do you believe that the current model is a "proven failure"? IMHO. The model is flawed because it governs what the budget is based on projected crowds, season ticket sales, matchday revenue etc. The model falls on its arse when we have a spectacular drop in crowds mid season with very little leeway in assets or money put away 'just in case'. So you then have the problems we have faced this season...falling crowds, less revenue coming in but a wage bill based on much higher crowds draining the life out of the club. A total fan owned cooperative model like ours will only take you so far, once you have a bad season and crowds fall..thus revenue falls there is no going forwards, only backwards. The model we have needs outside investment but this is risky because people who put money in usually want something for it. The fact is that most will not hear of outside investment prefering the club to go down the leagues rather than consider it. Football is a results based game, if you are not winning people walk away and i am in no doubt that IF we ended up playing evostick football we would struggle to get 700-800 through the gate. Bottom line? What people say on here is very different to what they say privately. I have spoken to loads of people at the ground about the club and how it is i;e ''we need an investor to put money in'' Now i know most will say i'm talking out of my arse, but i'm a fan owned model person HOWEVER not everyone is which is why people are walking away in their droves. My opinion (for what it's worth). The model we have is a 'survivalist model' it's a ''at least we have a club model''. Which is great if you like watching football at Lairds, Kendal, Ossett and Garforth. Sadly some want to watch us at a much higher level. There is an air of lack of ambition about the club at the moment.I really don't know the answer to our predicament, our crowds have dropped 50% over the last 3 years and i'm not sure how we can get them back whilst we are in decline, and we are in decline make no mistake about that. Most sensible post I've read on the subject
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Mar 19, 2018 17:40:19 GMT
Why should we not not be able to consolidate in the Conference North. If we start winning matches crowds will improve as happened after the 1980 81 season , when we were equally dire.
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Post by happyclapper52 on Mar 19, 2018 17:42:51 GMT
Willing ? Totally irrelevant if beyond our control? A more intelligent question would be "What's the lowest level you would continue to support our club?" Answer for me ? Whatever level we find ourselves in after watching Chester over 50 years. And you ?
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Post by happyclapper52 on Mar 19, 2018 17:48:13 GMT
Pretty much as per Ken who hits the nail on the head for me. Football teams get relegated. It's part of the game. That's right but how far down are you willing to let us go? Stupid boy ! Are you for real?
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Post by billyw on Mar 19, 2018 19:17:59 GMT
IMHO. The model is flawed because it governs what the budget is based on projected crowds, season ticket sales, matchday revenue etc. The model falls on its arse when we have a spectacular drop in crowds mid season with very little leeway in assets or money put away 'just in case'. So you then have the problems we have faced this season...falling crowds, less revenue coming in but a wage bill based on much higher crowds draining the life out of the club. A total fan owned cooperative model like ours will only take you so far, once you have a bad season and crowds fall..thus revenue falls there is no going forwards, only backwards. The model we have needs outside investment but this is risky because people who put money in usually want something for it. The fact is that most will not hear of outside investment prefering the club to go down the leagues rather than consider it. Football is a results based game, if you are not winning people walk away and i am in no doubt that IF we ended up playing evostick football we would struggle to get 700-800 through the gate. Bottom line? What people say on here is very different to what they say privately. I have spoken to loads of people at the ground about the club and how it is i;e ''we need an investor to put money in'' Now i know most will say i'm talking out of my arse, but i'm a fan owned model person HOWEVER not everyone is which is why people are walking away in their droves. My opinion (for what it's worth). The model we have is a 'survivalist model' it's a ''at least we have a club model''. Which is great if you like watching football at Lairds, Kendal, Ossett and Garforth. Sadly some want to watch us at a much higher level. There is an air of lack of ambition about the club at the moment.I really don't know the answer to our predicament, our crowds have dropped 50% over the last 3 years and i'm not sure how we can get them back whilst we are in decline, and we are in decline make no mistake about that. Most sensible post I've read on the subject Agreed
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Post by lookingin on Mar 19, 2018 19:22:35 GMT
Willing ? Totally irrelevant if beyond our control? A more intelligent question would be "What's the lowest level you would continue to support our club?" Answer for me ? Whatever level we find ourselves in after watching Chester over 50 years. And you ? We only have about 300 fans that fit in your demographic. That isn't anywhere near the fan base we need.
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Post by Harry Lime on Mar 19, 2018 19:33:18 GMT
It may of been discussed, but there was no actual plan. Anyone can say we will be at X in X years time, its just a sales pitch. To even contemplate a return to the League, we would need to have our own training facilities and full blown Youth Academy with a £100k P.A budget at our core (not the peanuts Callum's working with now). Thats without the long-term stuff regarding facilities, scouting networks etc. None of this was planned for, and I will never hold that against anyone because everyone was working the bollocks off, but this chronic lack of investment has been a large factor in our current demise. Why is that? Tranmere pay £500k for their academy and they're closing it. Ours runs on next to nothing and continues to produce some exceptional talent? Unless you mean something else i.e. full-time training or something. Unless I'm mistaken, you can't have an Academy unless you're in the Football League, or were in it when you started the Academy. By definition, you'll only be able to achieve this after a few years in the Football League, once the funding comes through. You need good training facilities. Whether they're ours or hired is less important.
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Post by Charfield Blue on Mar 19, 2018 20:24:06 GMT
By what measure do you believe that the current model is a "proven failure"? The club has been all but milked dry by Burr, then McCarthy, then Maguire. Numerous has-been journeymen, or indeed never-been journeyman, have been doing similar this season too. Over £100k for the sale of Sarcevic, and £130k for Sam Hughes to Leicester, and not a penny in the pot to show for it. Crowds regularly in excess of 2000 now dwindled down to little more than 1000. Total apathy in the city for a club that is by and large anonymous to most, and very little advertising or promotion to boot. Relegation almost certain in a season where a record budget has been spent, and you actually ask such a question? Quite unbelievable! By that measure - apathy / falling crowds / relegation both models this club has employed have been a "failure". Indeed, you name me a model that would not have to endure and survive all of those elements at some point. To my mind the fans owned model hasn't failed. Failure is debt, unpaid creditors and ultimately winding up of the business. What we have is a crisis, but one that we are more than capable of recovering from. If enough people are willing that is. What I find difficult to believe, given our history, is how some people are so willing to throw away this level of control that we have over our own destiny, all for the dream of a well intentioned knight in shining armour.
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