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Post by dmcnally on Apr 13, 2018 9:29:31 GMT
That was a worrying listen. How we’re going to operate as a full-time club on a budget of 250k is anyone’s guess. Playing budget pal. Yeah, I know. Incredibly small for the Conference north never mind for full time contracts |
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Post by johny9 on Apr 13, 2018 9:31:57 GMT
Fair play to all involved giving up their free time to do the podcast but it’s clear we need people with football experience ASAP!! We are going to end up with a first team of 18 year olds weighing 9 stone a piece ! I’m all for giving youth a chance if they are good enough but nurturing them correctly by a couple at a time . One thing we have seriously lacked on in recent season is athleticism/ physicality and the way they were speaking is we are going to have a starting 11 full of kids
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Post by Hannibal on Apr 13, 2018 9:35:06 GMT
I've just spent 60 minutes listening to the first 30 minutes of that and decided to have a break. Without reading any of the 3-pages of comments I conclude that the only person on that so far who impresses me is Neil Turner. He would be a major player in the board room if only to dispel the apathy which seems to pervade. I almost stopped listening when the first question, "Are the board fit for purpose?" was answered in the positive. The answer should have been "We will strive to become so". What is KPI? Back to it.
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Post by bing on Apr 13, 2018 9:37:41 GMT
I've just spent 60 minutes listening to the first 30 minutes of that and decided to have a break. Without reading any of the 3-pages of comments I conclude that the only person on that so far who impresses me is Neil Turner. He would be a major player in the board room if only to dispel the apathy which seems to pervade. I almost stopped listening when the first question, "Are the board fit for purpose?" was answered in the positive. The answer should have been "We will strive to become so". What is KPI? Back to it. Key performance indicators |
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Post by Al on Apr 13, 2018 9:37:43 GMT
I've just spent 60 minutes listening to the first 30 minutes of that and decided to have a break. Without reading any of the 3-pages of comments I conclude that the only person on that so far who impresses me is Neil Turner. He would be a major player in the board room if only to dispel the apathy which seems to pervade. I almost stopped listening when the first question, "Are the board fit for purpose?" was answered in the positive. The answer should have been "We will strive to become so". What is KPI? Back to it. Key Performance Indicator |
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Post by Al on Apr 13, 2018 9:38:05 GMT
I've just spent 60 minutes listening to the first 30 minutes of that and decided to have a break. Without reading any of the 3-pages of comments I conclude that the only person on that so far who impresses me is Neil Turner. He would be a major player in the board room if only to dispel the apathy which seems to pervade. I almost stopped listening when the first question, "Are the board fit for purpose?" was answered in the positive. The answer should have been "We will strive to become so". What is KPI? Back to it. Key performance indicators Ha beat me to it |
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Post by Hannibal on Apr 13, 2018 9:42:48 GMT
I was told by someone who volunteers at the club that LK had flagged up that the cub was operating at a loss at the AGM, but this was simply untrue as Neil read out LK's statement from the AGM.
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Post by Charfield Blue on Apr 13, 2018 9:49:16 GMT
I'm surprised that people are surprised by the £250K budget figure as this has been out there since the crisis meeting. My concern is that even this is a stretch unless fans and local business mobilise and get behind the club right now. Next season is going to be really tough. Our most challenging yet as a fans owned club. We'll find out if, deep down, there is the desire in the community to make this work.
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Post by Hannibal on Apr 13, 2018 9:52:30 GMT
Top post.Tarvinbluem The board at the time were too weak to stand up to McGuire and McCarthy and wete being fed falsehoods that they believed. How many times were they warned though throughout 2017? It's like they were under some kind of spell and totally incapable of seeing the bigger picture. Terrified that some of those remain. Spot on. If the likes of LK,CH MN had any love for this club they would step down as soon as the season has finished. |
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Post by icomeinpeace on Apr 13, 2018 9:55:18 GMT
Why have a go at Marion? At the end of the day the secretary with no vote on anything.
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Post by sqzl on Apr 13, 2018 9:56:37 GMT
Key performance indicators Ha beat me to it or in this case KPI's are non-existent fantasies in my opinion. |
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Post by rcb on Apr 13, 2018 9:58:41 GMT
I don’t feel the club has ever been successful since moving away from the part-time model that so successfully won the Conference North. Players of the calibre of Matt Rhead don’t come cheap, and he needed the support from other players of a quality more costly than our budget allowed. We got to the Conference on the ability to buy better part-timers than the opposition, blended with the ability to recognise and bring in quality local players, Sarcevic being one such player for example.
Educational, personal, and employment commitments prevent many quality players from considering turning full-time, particularly at the lower end of the footballing pyramid where pay for most is poor. Far too much of the overall income of the club has been dedicated in the past five years to a flawed playing model, to the detriment of developing and safeguarding the club’s future, with last summer being the worst example ever.
I am horrified to read that a full-time model is to be retained for next season. It has been acknowledged that the club is desperately short of footballing knowledge so how can the decision to remain full-time be taken prior to the appointment of a new manager? Scuicidal in my opinion.
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Post by Charfield Blue on Apr 13, 2018 9:58:57 GMT
How many times were they warned though throughout 2017? It's like they were under some kind of spell and totally incapable of seeing the bigger picture. Terrified that some of those remain. Spot on. If the likes of LK,CH MN had any love for this club they would step down as soon as the season has finished. So you really think the best thing for the club right now is that more people choose to step away? If there are people willing to replace them they are free to step forward right now. They are needed, they are wanted and absolutely nothing is stopping them. |
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Post by Al on Apr 13, 2018 9:59:08 GMT
How many times were they warned though throughout 2017? It's like they were under some kind of spell and totally incapable of seeing the bigger picture. Terrified that some of those remain. Spot on. If the likes of LK,CH MN had any love for this club they would step down as soon as the season has finished. Who replaces them?
You are quick to point the finger of blame, and demand resignations, but who replaces them? Do you ever stop to think about that? Will you stand up and replace them?
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Post by Charfield Blue on Apr 13, 2018 10:03:32 GMT
It's worse than that AL. This string em up mentality is counter productive to what we really, blindingly obviously, need and that is to encourage new board members.
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Post by Harry Lime on Apr 13, 2018 10:19:20 GMT
I can see why we'd need a full time model to keep our academy players and develop them. That maybe our lifeblood in the medium term.
However, how do you fund a full time squad on £250k (at best), when over a third of that is already spent on 2 players wages? Add in Mahon, Archer, Waters and other players who've been offered contracts already. There can't be much left. Who do we attract on full time wages at £10k a time? Or maybe less?
Doesn't add up for me. Unless Calvin Hughes can weave some magic and get those 2 players out without much cost to the club. Best of luck with that project after watching them.
Might as well have Callum as manager, as the Youth team would also be the first team.
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Post by bethnalblue on Apr 13, 2018 10:20:51 GMT
Agreed, there has to be some acceptance that the budget process was a major factor in the mess we found ourselves in by January. LK seemed fairly adamant that nothing was a "stretch" target, but it's a stretch to get from 0 to 1 with an unproven concept such as the 100 club and it should have been treated as gravy, not core income. I'm assuming that we are continually forecasting and budgeting as the season progresses, so could have delivered additional funds to the manager in January should any of the initiatives been successful, but it seems to be all front loaded. One word that I don't think I heard last night was "risk" - it's clear we took a risk to increase the budget and JM being able to spend it wisely. Sometimes you need to take risks and I agree that in the short term the signings of Hannah and James probably helped secure some wavering season ticket renewals, but it's back fired spectacularly in that none of our expensive signings have really worked out. We may need to take some more risks now, so here's hoping that openness and transparency continues and we can then indeed question the sanity of an average attendance of 1,700 for next season .... I agree, with regards the 1,700 target for next season. That indeed is a risk and would require a pretty reasonable level of on field success that we know is far from guaranteed. Is it though considering the likely increased away support from several clubs in CN? Id guess that overall Away Attendances would increase even taking in account the 3000 combined that Wrexham and Tranmere brought. |
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Post by Charfield Blue on Apr 13, 2018 10:27:11 GMT
I agree, with regards the 1,700 target for next season. That indeed is a risk and would require a pretty reasonable level of on field success that we know is far from guaranteed. Is it though considering the likely increased away support from several clubs in CN? Id guess that overall Away Attendances would increase even taking in account the 3000 combined that Wrexham and Tranmere brought. Outside of Stockport, York , FC and possibly Hereford there isn't going to be a huge amount of away support. I'm praying that neither of the first 2 go up through the play offs. It's going to be a struggle next year and with moral of the fan base being so low it would only take a poor start, which is more than possible with a brand new squad and manager, for attendances to be well below that level. |
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Post by Hannibal on Apr 13, 2018 10:28:48 GMT
Fairly interesting podcast, but didn't learn a great deal more than we already knew. I also have some serious concerns regarding Laurence Kirby and his role in this crisis, despite his best efforts to deflect all of the blame onto our ex-CEO. For example, his mention of KPI's for Mark Maguire was complete nonsense. I know for a fact that one board member was at the point of resignation following an attempt to place KPI's and performance reviews into Mark Maguires contract. This was met with such vociferous opposition by Laurence Kirby and Mark Maguire that the board member in question was seriously considering their position. I also echo the concerns of others regarding the once again ambitious average attendance figure for next season. Have we not learnt any lessons? Is LK actually the long standing issue? He's been on the board throughout this period and presents well financial figures to attempt to back up his points. However, clear processes haven't been in place or followed. He tries to present the perception that he communicates the figures and that's his job done. Is this correct? Could be a controversial viewpoint and I'm not suggesting it''s definitely the case but there needs to be a clear investigation of his role in all this as the elected member entrusted by the owners to safeguard our financial position. The attendances next season will depend on the managerial appointment, summer recruitment and various other factors such as maintaining a challenge for promotion. Halifax increased their average attendance last season in the CN because they were winning matches despite the tactics being hit it long to their 6' 5" striker. |
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Post by bing on Apr 13, 2018 10:29:38 GMT
Spot on. If the likes of LK,CH MN had any love for this club they would step down as soon as the season has finished. Who replaces them?
You are quick to point the finger of blame, and demand resignations, but who replaces them? Do you ever stop to think about that? Will you stand up and replace them?
All this 'sack the board' has to stop. We're at a stage where we need to encourage people to throw their hat in the ring. Quite honestly, who would want to apply for the board if they know there is a lynch mob baying for blood, even if blame doesn't necessarily lie at their doorstep? The board is comprised of people placed there by our votes. If people feel strongly about it, either put themselves forward or at least vote on the candidates. The number of people voting last time was low IMO - which opens the door to people getting voted on by their mates rather than necessarily being the right person for the role. |
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Post by btb on Apr 13, 2018 10:34:53 GMT
It's worse than that AL. This string em up mentality is counter productive to what we really, blindingly obviously, need and that is to encourage new board members. They just don't get it unfortunately CB. These people seem to think there is an ocean of people out there who are willing to do what is effectively a full time job for nothing whilst also getting dogs abuse off a load of hillbillies. |
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Post by Hannibal on Apr 13, 2018 10:35:26 GMT
I've just spent 60 minutes listening to the first 30 minutes of that and decided to have a break. Without reading any of the 3-pages of comments I conclude that the only person on that so far who impresses me is Neil Turner. He would be a major player in the board room if only to dispel the apathy which seems to pervade. I almost stopped listening when the first question, "Are the board fit for purpose?" was answered in the positive. The answer should have been "We will strive to become so". What is KPI? Back to it. Key performance indicators Ok, well why didn't they say that. We're not all privy to these business acronyms. We all thought that MM was subject to this kind of scrutiny, but he wasn't. Piss up and brewery come to mind. |
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Post by Hannibal on Apr 13, 2018 10:41:05 GMT
Is it though considering the likely increased away support from several clubs in CN? Id guess that overall Away Attendances would increase even taking in account the 3000 combined that Wrexham and Tranmere brought. Outside of Stockport, York , FC and possibly Hereford there isn't going to be a huge amount of away support. I'm praying that neither of the first 2 go up through the play offs. It's going to be a struggle next year and with moral of the fan base being so low it would only take a poor start, which is more than possible with a brand new squad and manager, for attendances to be well below that level. What about Kidderminster, Chorley, Darlington, Southport, Altrincham and Telford? |
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Post by peterkaysock on Apr 13, 2018 10:42:00 GMT
Who replaces them?
You are quick to point the finger of blame, and demand resignations, but who replaces them? Do you ever stop to think about that? Will you stand up and replace them?
All this 'sack the board' has to stop. We're at a stage where we need to encourage people to throw their hat in the ring. Quite honestly, who would want to apply for the board if they know there is a lynch mob baying for blood, even if blame doesn't necessarily lie at their doorstep? The board is comprised of people placed there by our votes. If people feel strongly about it, either put themselves forward or at least vote on the candidates. The number of people voting last time was low IMO - which opens the door to people getting voted on by their mates rather than necessarily being the right person for the role. Totally agree Bing, it does have to stop. Its getting out of hand, for me the board now are trying to fix the damage that has been left behind which is a lot harder than people might think. We need to step up now if we want this club to survive, stop the witch hunt and finger pointing and roll our selves up and get stuck in. If we carry on like this, we wont have a club next season that's for sure. Mistakes have been made that's for sure, but it is learning curve for most and even harder when you are in the public eye. Time to push on and not live in the past |
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Post by sqzl on Apr 13, 2018 10:43:36 GMT
It's worse than that AL. This string em up mentality is counter productive to what we really, blindingly obviously, need and that is to encourage new board members. They just don't get it unfortunately CB. These people seem to think there is an ocean of people out there who are willing to do what is effectively a full time job for nothing whilst also getting dogs abuse off a load of hillbillies. Some people take the abuse of the board way too far. At the end of the day you need thick skin to be in business and must be able to take constructive criticism. What they shouldn't be subject to is unwarrented abuse without any real valid points. On the flip side, a lot of mistakes have been made, we keep saying we're learning, then make a new mistake. To me it's more than fair that we, as owners, can pass judgement on basic fundamental errors being made, basic recruitment, basic accounting etc etc etc. There's just a right way to go about it and having a few pints and going on a twitter massacre isn't one of them. |
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Post by Charfield Blue on Apr 13, 2018 10:46:05 GMT
Outside of Stockport, York , FC and possibly Hereford there isn't going to be a huge amount of away support. I'm praying that neither of the first 2 go up through the play offs. It's going to be a struggle next year and with moral of the fan base being so low it would only take a poor start, which is more than possible with a brand new squad and manager, for attendances to be well below that level. What about Kidderminster, Chorley, Darlington, Southport, Altrincham and Telford? Not going to be that big away supports are they? How many would any of they bring for say a mid week game? What I'm saying is that there's only a few clubs that we could look at to boost our average by anything of significance. The rest is clearly down to us. |
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Post by Charfield Blue on Apr 13, 2018 10:49:41 GMT
They just don't get it unfortunately CB. These people seem to think there is an ocean of people out there who are willing to do what is effectively a full time job for nothing whilst also getting dogs abuse off a load of hillbillies. Some people take the abuse of the board way too far. At the end of the day you need thick skin to be in business and must be able to take constructive criticism. What they shouldn't be subject to is unwarrented abuse without any real valid points. On the flip side, a lot of mistakes have been made, we keep saying we're learning, then make a new mistake. To me it's more than fair that we, as owners, can pass judgement on basic fundamental errors being made, basic recruitment, basic accounting etc etc etc. There's just a right way to go about it and having a few pints and going on a twitter massacre isn't one of them. I think a lack of "constructive" criticism has been a failing of us as a fanbase. We thought we were comfortable. But for constructive criticism to exist we have to get rid of the endless noise of spiteful finger pointing. Otherwise ears close, defences go up and genuine concerns are lost in a void of shite. |
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Post by sqzl on Apr 13, 2018 10:51:18 GMT
What about Kidderminster, Chorley, Darlington, Southport, Altrincham and Telford? Not going to be that big away supports are they? How many would any of they bring for say a mid week game? What I'm saying is that there's only a few clubs that we could look at to boost our average by anything of significance. The rest is clearly down to us. Darlo attendance is probably close to ours, and higher in recent weeks. Chalk and cheese compared to Wrexham, Macc and Tranmere though. |
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Post by livinginhope on Apr 13, 2018 10:55:42 GMT
What about Kidderminster, Chorley, Darlington, Southport, Altrincham and Telford? Not going to be that big away supports are they? How many would any of they bring for say a mid week game? What I'm saying is that there's only a few clubs that we could look at to boost our average by anything of significance. The rest is clearly down to us. The average away support will still be more than this season, with the likes of Boreham Wood, Fylde, Gateshead, Eastleigh, Bromley, Solihull etc not bringing much more than 200 between them. But yes we shouldn't need to rely on away support, we need to boost attendances ourselves. And I think the ticket prices for next year are a very good start. |
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Post by btb on Apr 13, 2018 11:00:16 GMT
They just don't get it unfortunately CB. These people seem to think there is an ocean of people out there who are willing to do what is effectively a full time job for nothing whilst also getting dogs abuse off a load of hillbillies. Some people take the abuse of the board way too far. At the end of the day you need thick skin to be in business and must be able to take constructive criticism. What they shouldn't be subject to is unwarrented abuse without any real valid points. On the flip side, a lot of mistakes have been made, we keep saying we're learning, then make a new mistake. To me it's more than fair that we, as owners, can pass judgement on basic fundamental errors being made, basic recruitment, basic accounting etc etc etc. There's just a right way to go about it and having a few pints and going on a twitter massacre isn't one of them. My Point exactly. Be adult about it. Be constructive with criticism. There are many ways to voice opinion. Just do it the right way. Going on a board members FB profile at ten to midnight asking them why they aren't replying to you after you've called them unprofessional amongst other things is pathetic and not helping the situation at all. |
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