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Post by Lobster on Dec 2, 2018 8:32:22 GMT
As far as I can tell we hosted a group of young footballers, purely for football reasons. I wouldn't say that was overly political, whereas this leaflet campaign is solely political. Mind you, the very nature of the football club is socialist so there's some strand of politics involved. To answer one of the points made throughout this thread - is this campaign racist/anti-Semitic? No, and to suggest so is laughable. Disagree, mention of Adam Halabiyeh's shooting was intrinsically political. The club didn't have to draw attention to it but chose otherwise. That’s his story, it would be disingenuous not to report it or to sugarcoat some of the details. The same would be true if he were an Israeli shot by Palestinians. The club has supported several causes in recent years, including Help for Heroes, Gay Pride, refugee aid and, just yesterday, West Cheshire Food Bank. You could argue any of these are political causes, personally I would say they are just examples of kindness and compassion. |
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Post by Lobster on Dec 2, 2018 8:41:57 GMT
Being opposed to the politics of Israel is not anti-Semitic in the same way that being opposed to the politics of Saudi Arabia is not anti-Muslim, or of the US is not anti-Christian. Calling Israel an apartheid state is! No it isn’t. It’s an opinion on the politics of a nation. It doesn’t attack Jews - there are Jews who are anti-Israel. If I say Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship, am I being anti-Islamic? |
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Post by Hannibal on Dec 2, 2018 9:00:05 GMT
Calling Israel an apartheid state is! No it isn’t. It’s an opinion on the politics of a nation. It doesn’t attack Jews - there are Jews who are anti-Israel. If I say Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship, am I being anti-Islamic? According to IHRA (International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance) it is and anyway it's a ridiculous thing to say. |
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Post by Lobster on Dec 2, 2018 9:36:36 GMT
No it isn’t. It’s an opinion on the politics of a nation. It doesn’t attack Jews - there are Jews who are anti-Israel. If I say Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship, am I being anti-Islamic? According to IHRA (International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance) it is and anyway it's a ridiculous thing to say. In that case you can’t say anything about a country’s government without discriminating against the religion on which it’s founded. Israel as a state cannot be immune to criticism just because it’s a recent country founded on Judaism. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 2, 2018 9:44:57 GMT
Being opposed to the politics of Israel is not anti-Semitic in the same way that being opposed to the politics of Saudi Arabia is not anti-Muslim, or of the US is not anti-Christian. Calling Israel an apartheid state is! It is an apartheid state. Massively. Loads of Jews even say so, are you calling Jewish people anti-Semitic? How bizarre. |
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Post by rhodri on Dec 2, 2018 10:03:33 GMT
I'll be honest, given how good the game was, I'd forgotten about this before the game.
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Post by Derry Blue on Dec 2, 2018 10:26:14 GMT
No conflation. It’s a nation of Jews, arguing that they shouldn’t be allowed to take part in football because of their government’s policies is absolutely anti-Semitic, otherwise they’d have also been arguing that Saudi Arabia should get the same treatment because of Yemen & so on. So in that case, you do think it was racist that South Africa was banned from FIFA in 1963, just to be clear? Go away. |
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Post by Imperial on Dec 2, 2018 11:54:52 GMT
Calling Israel an apartheid state is! No it isn’t. It’s an opinion on the politics of a nation. It doesn’t attack Jews - there are Jews who are anti-Israel. If I say Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship, am I being anti-Islamic? They were anti-Israel & had a Palestine flag up. They weren’t debating Israel’s foreign policy, they were arguing for Israel to be excluded from football. The only Jewish state, established to give the Jews a home after millions of them were exterminated. Calling Saudi Arabia a dictatorship is not an equivalence at all. |
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Post by Imperial on Dec 2, 2018 11:56:10 GMT
Calling Israel an apartheid state is! It is an apartheid state. Massively. Loads of Jews even say so, are you calling Jewish people anti-Semitic? How bizarre. Depends on your motivation for saying it doesn’t it? Are Brits who argue in favour of the IRA anti-UK? I’d say so yes. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 2, 2018 12:03:58 GMT
No it isn’t. It’s an opinion on the politics of a nation. It doesn’t attack Jews - there are Jews who are anti-Israel. If I say Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship, am I being anti-Islamic? They were anti-Israel & had a Palestine flag up. They weren’t debating Israel’s foreign policy, they were arguing for Israel to be excluded from football. The only Jewish state, established to give the Jews a home after millions of them were exterminated. Calling Saudi Arabia a dictatorship is not an equivalence at all. "Anti-Israel and had a Palestine flag up" = in no way is any of that anti-Semitic. Nor is calling for the country to be banned from playing international football due to mass genocide. The South Africa comparison is dead right. |
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Post by Deva Chanter on Dec 2, 2018 12:26:21 GMT
No it isn’t. It’s an opinion on the politics of a nation. It doesn’t attack Jews - there are Jews who are anti-Israel. If I say Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship, am I being anti-Islamic? They were anti-Israel & had a Palestine flag up. They weren’t debating Israel’s foreign policy, they were arguing for Israel to be excluded from football. The only Jewish state, established to give the Jews a home after millions of them were exterminated. Calling Saudi Arabia a dictatorship is not an equivalence at all. Being anti-Israel and waving a Palestine flag is not anti-semitic. There are many, many Jews, including many Israelis, who are absolutely appalled by the actions of the Israeli government and the way in which it treats Palestinians. Particularly enjoy how you admit to knowing nothing about the boycott of South Africa and then make flippant remarks about how Israel was 'established' with zero mention of the methods used to establish such a state. |
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Post by Deva Chanter on Dec 2, 2018 12:49:05 GMT
No it isn’t. It’s an opinion on the politics of a nation. It doesn’t attack Jews - there are Jews who are anti-Israel. If I say Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship, am I being anti-Islamic? According to IHRA (International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance) it is and anyway it's a ridiculous thing to say. It isn't though, is it? The IHRA definition of anti-semitism doesn't mention the word 'apartheid' once so I'm not sure why you are suggesting it does. |
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Post by Little Blue Boy on Dec 2, 2018 13:07:42 GMT
No it isn’t. It’s an opinion on the politics of a nation. It doesn’t attack Jews - there are Jews who are anti-Israel. If I say Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship, am I being anti-Islamic? According to IHRA (International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance) it is and anyway it's a ridiculous thing to say. Apartheid = a policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race. Can you explain to us how the passing of Israel's recent Nation State Law does not fit the definition of apartheid? I imagine I will be waiting a while. |
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Post by Ian H Block on Dec 2, 2018 14:15:09 GMT
So in that case, you do think it was racist that South Africa was banned from FIFA in 1963, just to be clear? Go away. Bet you were gutted when they freed Nelson Mandela. |
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Post by Hannibal on Dec 2, 2018 14:41:22 GMT
Calling Israel an apartheid state is! It is an apartheid state. Massively. Loads of Jews even say so, are you calling Jewish people anti-Semitic? How bizarre. To be honest I'm still buzzing after Asante's and Chester's performance yesterday so I'm not going to spoil it by arguing with ignoramuses. |
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Post by Lobster on Dec 2, 2018 14:44:10 GMT
No it isn’t. It’s an opinion on the politics of a nation. It doesn’t attack Jews - there are Jews who are anti-Israel. If I say Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship, am I being anti-Islamic? They were anti-Israel & had a Palestine flag up. They weren’t debating Israel’s foreign policy, they were arguing for Israel to be excluded from football. The only Jewish state, established to give the Jews a home after millions of them were exterminated. Calling Saudi Arabia a dictatorship is not an equivalence at all. You’re claiming Israel has a special right to protection from opposition on the basis that it’s the only Jewish state. It’s not anti-Semitic to be opposed to the idea of using Judaism to oppress people. |
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Post by Little Blue Boy on Dec 2, 2018 15:06:17 GMT
It is an apartheid state. Massively. Loads of Jews even say so, are you calling Jewish people anti-Semitic? How bizarre. To be honest I'm still buzzing after Asante's and Chester's performance yesterday so I'm not going to spoil it by arguing with ignoramuses. Didn't think you would be able to answer my question. A predictable retort to name calling when you don't have an answer. |
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Post by everhopeful on Dec 2, 2018 15:27:31 GMT
Getting too political and offensive.
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