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Post by ChesterTrueBlue on Sept 9, 2022 19:26:00 GMT
Just curious. Obviously we’ve seen a range of opinions throughout multiple threads on Devachat so I was wondering what the political stances of Devachat users are. Just put your political ideology as a reply and if you want you can add some reasons.
This thread isn’t to attack each other either, so please remain respectful.
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Post by Moltisanti on Sept 9, 2022 19:32:03 GMT
Centre - Left.
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Post by Al on Sept 9, 2022 19:33:33 GMT
Just curious. Obviously we’ve seen a range of opinions throughout multiple threads on Devachat so I was wondering what the political stances of Devachat users are. Just put your political ideology as a reply and if you want you can add some reasons. This thread isn’t to attack each other either, so please remain respectful. Tell me yours and I'll tell you mine..
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Post by Lobster on Sept 9, 2022 20:15:46 GMT
Pretty solidly left. I just think it's usually fairer, more intelligent and more progressive. If you don't engage your brain at all you'll default to the populist right.
But I also think the terms "left" and "right" are used clumsily at times. For example, I would say UKIP, sometimes described as "far-right", have always been left of the Tories and arguably also the current Labour Party. People mistake populist or authoritarian views for right-wing ones when they're not necessarily the same thing.
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Post by Al on Sept 9, 2022 20:38:42 GMT
I find it strange the op asks what others political stances are without saying what theirs is..
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Post by ChesterTrueBlue on Sept 9, 2022 21:35:19 GMT
I find it strange the op asks what others political stances are without saying what theirs is.. Classical Liberal
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Post by Lobster on Sept 9, 2022 22:25:51 GMT
I find it strange the op asks what others political stances are without saying what theirs is.. Classical Liberal And what does that mean to you? You invited us to give some reasons.
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Post by ChesterTrueBlue on Sept 9, 2022 23:07:55 GMT
And what does that mean to you? You invited us to give some reasons. To me it’s having a small government and allowing for greater individual freedom. I feel we are taxed too highly and that our money is wasted. That’s what really pushed me towards liberalism. My preferred stance is Gladstone's take on liberalism which advocated for lower taxes as well as pushing towards other economic policies such as free trade. We can also point towards liberalism as the turning point in this country for a fairer society as state schools became more prominent. This is an important thing to note, despite liberalism advocating for smaller government and less taxation, it doesn’t leave the working class out to dry. In the modern age it’s clear to see that we have civil liberties curbed everyday, only recently Switzerland announced that if you have your heating above 19 degrees you could face jail. In this country there was that bill that could effectively ban protests that the government didn’t agree with and I felt we were sleep walking into the extremes of fascism and communism. Another reason for my liberal beliefs is that I’m dissatisfied with the two main parties in this country. Two sides of the same coin yet our society is deeply divided because we demonise anyone we disagree with. Of course I could never bring myself to be a Tory as they seem hellbent on destroying our society and taking away many of our freedoms. I used to be a Labour supporter but the Labour Party is so divided between centre-left/centrist politics and hard left politics that I no longer can support either side of the argument. Personally if I could have my society it would be something to the tune of • Lower taxation on income and see that local councils lower council tax • Remove unnecessary tariffs on international trade and attempt to get us back into the single market as we are disadvantaged in my opinion. However this should only be done through a vote • The transfer of certain powers from the central government to local government such as county councils and town councils • A reformed prison system that focuses on rehabilitation rather than punishment as it is imperative that we reduce the number of prisoners • Encouraging more local business by reducing tax on small to medium businesses, as we can only have strong local government with strong local economies Of course there is more but that is a quick overview of my beliefs
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Post by inthestand on Sept 10, 2022 11:49:38 GMT
Capitalism is a fantastic ideology…but unfortunately it’s being abused , and I mean massively abused…but that could also be said about socialism,fascism,totalitarianism and communism…demographics all over the world are changing dramatically to an older populous, and a new world order is emerging….totally agree with Chester true blue on everything he states…but greed and narcissistic power will always dominate whatever political stance one takes unfortunately…as for me, I’m an uncomfortable centre left…
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Post by Lobster on Sept 10, 2022 12:30:35 GMT
And what does that mean to you? You invited us to give some reasons. To me it’s having a small government and allowing for greater individual freedom. I feel we are taxed too highly and that our money is wasted. That’s what really pushed me towards liberalism. My preferred stance is Gladstone's take on liberalism which advocated for lower taxes as well as pushing towards other economic policies such as free trade. We can also point towards liberalism as the turning point in this country for a fairer society as state schools became more prominent. This is an important thing to note, despite liberalism advocating for smaller government and less taxation, it doesn’t leave the working class out to dry. In the modern age it’s clear to see that we have civil liberties curbed everyday, only recently Switzerland announced that if you have your heating above 19 degrees you could face jail. In this country there was that bill that could effectively ban protests that the government didn’t agree with and I felt we were sleep walking into the extremes of fascism and communism. Another reason for my liberal beliefs is that I’m dissatisfied with the two main parties in this country. Two sides of the same coin yet our society is deeply divided because we demonise anyone we disagree with. Of course I could never bring myself to be a Tory as they seem hellbent on destroying our society and taking away many of our freedoms. I used to be a Labour supporter but the Labour Party is so divided between centre-left/centrist politics and hard left politics that I no longer can support either side of the argument. Personally if I could have my society it would be something to the tune of • Lower taxation on income and see that local councils lower council tax • Remove unnecessary tariffs on international trade and attempt to get us back into the single market as we are disadvantaged in my opinion. However this should only be done through a vote • The transfer of certain powers from the central government to local government such as county councils and town councils • A reformed prison system that focuses on rehabilitation rather than punishment as it is imperative that we reduce the number of prisoners • Encouraging more local business by reducing tax on small to medium businesses, as we can only have strong local government with strong local economies Of course there is more but that is a quick overview of my beliefs A detailed and coherent answer, to be fair. My views aren't that structured or coherent. I'm quite radical economically. I just don't think what we're doing works or ever will. I'd like to see a worldwide, concerted effort towards getting us all to do less pointless work and enjoy our lives more, with nobody stressing about not having enough money. I don't really think that should be that difficult. If aliens landed on our planet they would think the way we do things is stupid. Socially, I live by the "don't be a dick" rule, while being aware that as a straight white male I'm in a position of privilege.
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Post by Mean Machine on Sept 10, 2022 15:49:37 GMT
I am also a straight white male, I work with. or have worked with gay, lesbian, disabled, Black, Asian, and ethnic minorities, they get paid at the same rate as I do, or if they are a manager more than I do, they get treated with the same respect as I do, if their behaviour or performance becomes unacceptable they get the sack just as I would do They get one vote just the same as I do, they are entitled to the same benefits as I am, they pay the same high cost of living as i do As a straight white male could you tell me what position of privilege I have that anyone else does not have
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Post by Lobster on Sept 10, 2022 16:54:29 GMT
I am also a straight white male, I work with. or have worked with gay, lesbian, disabled, Black, Asian, and ethnic minorities, they get paid at the same rate as I do, or if they are a manager more than I do, they get treated with the same respect as I do, if their behaviour or performance becomes unacceptable they get the sack just as I would do They get one vote just the same as I do, they are entitled to the same benefits as I am, they pay the same high cost of living as i do As a straight white male could you tell me what position of privilege I have that anyone else does not have They have the same basic human rights, in this country at this time, having fought for them. But if you think that's the end of the debate, you're not thinking about it very deeply. You could start by listing all the places in the world where you can be sentenced to death for being straight.
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Post by Rio Doherty on Sept 10, 2022 22:03:01 GMT
Labour.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2022 0:10:37 GMT
I am also a straight white male, I work with. or have worked with gay, lesbian, disabled, Black, Asian, and ethnic minorities, they get paid at the same rate as I do, or if they are a manager more than I do, they get treated with the same respect as I do, if their behaviour or performance becomes unacceptable they get the sack just as I would do They get one vote just the same as I do, they are entitled to the same benefits as I am, they pay the same high cost of living as i do As a straight white male could you tell me what position of privilege I have that anyone else does not have You can go for a run without fear of attack, being followed or harassed. You can get pulled up by the police and know its probably not because of the colour of your skin. You can move to a brand new area and be sure your new neighbours will be nice and warm towards you. You can be in the company of other white, straight males in public without fear of attack or being harassed. You can go most places, start a new job etc and not worry about being isolated, outnumbered, judged or even feared. You can go to public places, restaurants or hotels without fear of rejection or being mistreated. You can face rejection without wondering whether it's because of your race, gender, sexual orientation etc etc etc..... You have it easier. Maybe privilege is the wrong word, maybe dominance is more apt.
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Post by iandychesterfc on Sept 20, 2022 9:37:52 GMT
I am also a straight white male, I work with. or have worked with gay, lesbian, disabled, Black, Asian, and ethnic minorities, they get paid at the same rate as I do, or if they are a manager more than I do, they get treated with the same respect as I do, if their behaviour or performance becomes unacceptable they get the sack just as I would do They get one vote just the same as I do, they are entitled to the same benefits as I am, they pay the same high cost of living as i do As a straight white male could you tell me what position of privilege I have that anyone else does not have You can go for a run without fear of attack, being followed or harassed. You can get pulled up by the police and know its probably not because of the colour of your skin. You can move to a brand new area and be sure your new neighbours will be nice and warm towards you. You can be in the company of other white, straight males in public without fear of attack or being harassed. You can go most places, start a new job etc and not worry about being isolated, outnumbered, judged or even feared. You can go to public places, restaurants or hotels without fear of rejection or being mistreated. You can face rejection without wondering whether it's because of your race, gender, sexual orientation etc etc etc..... You have it easier. Maybe privilege is the wrong word, maybe dominance is more apt. Indeed this. I completely understand why the white straight male feels conflicted at the moment as they are told they have all the privilege but are also the route of all the worlds evils. Of course it is neither. Certain women will unfortunately always have to deal with the fear of harassment or attack and whilst 'reclaim the streets' is a lovely utopian idea it is entirely that, a fantasy. Racism is still very much present in the UK but it is continually reducing by each generation. Profiling is problematic but sadly, effective. A lot of us have already been victims of it, being kettled at various games and all tarnished with the same brush during the managed Wrexham games. I like the last sentence in the above, in a white-dominant society we will always have that advantage of being from the majority. This isnt white-supremacy as such as it would (and does) occur in other countries where sub-groups face descrimination. Campaigning is important, clearly as it brings about change. There is however a real issue to discuss as to whether it reaches a point whereby it starts to cause more harm in creating a seige mentality. This is perfectly normal, human behaviour.
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Post by iandychesterfc on Sept 20, 2022 9:48:01 GMT
And what does that mean to you? You invited us to give some reasons. To me it’s having a small government and allowing for greater individual freedom. I feel we are taxed too highly and that our money is wasted. That’s what really pushed me towards liberalism. My preferred stance is Gladstone's take on liberalism which advocated for lower taxes as well as pushing towards other economic policies such as free trade. We can also point towards liberalism as the turning point in this country for a fairer society as state schools became more prominent. This is an important thing to note, despite liberalism advocating for smaller government and less taxation, it doesn’t leave the working class out to dry. In the modern age it’s clear to see that we have civil liberties curbed everyday, only recently Switzerland announced that if you have your heating above 19 degrees you could face jail. In this country there was that bill that could effectively ban protests that the government didn’t agree with and I felt we were sleep walking into the extremes of fascism and communism. Another reason for my liberal beliefs is that I’m dissatisfied with the two main parties in this country. Two sides of the same coin yet our society is deeply divided because we demonise anyone we disagree with. Of course I could never bring myself to be a Tory as they seem hellbent on destroying our society and taking away many of our freedoms. I used to be a Labour supporter but the Labour Party is so divided between centre-left/centrist politics and hard left politics that I no longer can support either side of the argument. Personally if I could have my society it would be something to the tune of • Lower taxation on income and see that local councils lower council tax • Remove unnecessary tariffs on international trade and attempt to get us back into the single market as we are disadvantaged in my opinion. However this should only be done through a vote • The transfer of certain powers from the central government to local government such as county councils and town councils • A reformed prison system that focuses on rehabilitation rather than punishment as it is imperative that we reduce the number of prisoners • Encouraging more local business by reducing tax on small to medium businesses, as we can only have strong local government with strong local economies Of course there is more but that is a quick overview of my beliefs I'm very much here, i felt devolution was a huge error as it was done in a nationalistic way rather that a more federal which would have curbed the current risk is nationalism. Theres no reason why county lines could not have been considered to create a stronger local government. Tariffs were only ever important to protect national jobs/trade, as we are seeing currently in the Steel industry. I think there is a real conversation to be had regards a global economy and whether this is the the detriment of UK workers. Of course, it can and will always be cheaper to build/create/assemble in poorer countries so tariffs can be important. That said, between equal countries they of course can be suspended, including freedom of movement. The problem came when this was expanded to poorer countries which skewed all benefits. A low-tax economy is unfortunately often abused as another poster states, however the alternative stifles growth - the classic debate!
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Post by Ian H Block on Sept 20, 2022 12:19:19 GMT
To me it’s having a small government and allowing for greater individual freedom. I feel we are taxed too highly and that our money is wasted. That’s what really pushed me towards liberalism. My preferred stance is Gladstone's take on liberalism which advocated for lower taxes as well as pushing towards other economic policies such as free trade. We can also point towards liberalism as the turning point in this country for a fairer society as state schools became more prominent. This is an important thing to note, despite liberalism advocating for smaller government and less taxation, it doesn’t leave the working class out to dry. In the modern age it’s clear to see that we have civil liberties curbed everyday, only recently Switzerland announced that if you have your heating above 19 degrees you could face jail. In this country there was that bill that could effectively ban protests that the government didn’t agree with and I felt we were sleep walking into the extremes of fascism and communism. Another reason for my liberal beliefs is that I’m dissatisfied with the two main parties in this country. Two sides of the same coin yet our society is deeply divided because we demonise anyone we disagree with. Of course I could never bring myself to be a Tory as they seem hellbent on destroying our society and taking away many of our freedoms. I used to be a Labour supporter but the Labour Party is so divided between centre-left/centrist politics and hard left politics that I no longer can support either side of the argument. Personally if I could have my society it would be something to the tune of • Lower taxation on income and see that local councils lower council tax • Remove unnecessary tariffs on international trade and attempt to get us back into the single market as we are disadvantaged in my opinion. However this should only be done through a vote • The transfer of certain powers from the central government to local government such as county councils and town councils • A reformed prison system that focuses on rehabilitation rather than punishment as it is imperative that we reduce the number of prisoners • Encouraging more local business by reducing tax on small to medium businesses, as we can only have strong local government with strong local economies Of course there is more but that is a quick overview of my beliefs I'm very much here, i felt devolution was a huge error as it was done in a nationalistic way rather that a more federal which would have curbed the current risk is nationalism. Theres no reason why county lines could not have been considered to create a stronger local government. Tariffs were only ever important to protect national jobs/trade, as we are seeing currently in the Steel industry. I think there is a real conversation to be had regards a global economy and whether this is the the detriment of UK workers. Of course, it can and will always be cheaper to build/create/assemble in poorer countries so tariffs can be important. That said, between equal countries they of course can be suspended, including freedom of movement. The problem came when this was expanded to poorer countries which skewed all benefits. A low-tax economy is unfortunately often abused as another poster states, however the alternative stifles growth - the classic debate! Any evidence for high taxes stifling economic growth?
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Post by Deva Chanter on Sept 20, 2022 16:48:30 GMT
I'm very much here, i felt devolution was a huge error as it was done in a nationalistic way rather that a more federal which would have curbed the current risk is nationalism. Theres no reason why county lines could not have been considered to create a stronger local government. Tariffs were only ever important to protect national jobs/trade, as we are seeing currently in the Steel industry. I think there is a real conversation to be had regards a global economy and whether this is the the detriment of UK workers. Of course, it can and will always be cheaper to build/create/assemble in poorer countries so tariffs can be important. That said, between equal countries they of course can be suspended, including freedom of movement. The problem came when this was expanded to poorer countries which skewed all benefits. A low-tax economy is unfortunately often abused as another poster states, however the alternative stifles growth - the classic debate! Any evidence for high taxes stifling economic growth? As far as I can tell, if anything, the evidence suggests the opposite. Norway's economy outperforms the UK's on growth in spite of the fact that they have much higher taxes. The UK's tax burden is low compared to most European nations and yet our economy is growing slower than a lot of our European counterparts. Where tax cuts do tend to work is with those on lower incomes as they are almost certain to spend the extra money in the economy, thus more likely to lead to economic growth. The UK instead insists on giving hand outs to the rich who don't need the extra capital and don't even put very much of it to use growing the economy. Norway is an interesting example because their high taxes result in very high standard public service infrastructure and it is one of the happiest countries on the planet. You get what you pay for. So not only is the suggestion that lower taxes leads to economic growth seemingly a bit of a fallacy, accepting that argument means that you must accept that our public services should be of a lower standard than our counterparts. Like Brits, Norwegians want world-class public services. The difference is, they are willing to pay for them.
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Post by iandychesterfc on Sept 20, 2022 18:03:27 GMT
I'm very much here, i felt devolution was a huge error as it was done in a nationalistic way rather that a more federal which would have curbed the current risk is nationalism. Theres no reason why county lines could not have been considered to create a stronger local government. Tariffs were only ever important to protect national jobs/trade, as we are seeing currently in the Steel industry. I think there is a real conversation to be had regards a global economy and whether this is the the detriment of UK workers. Of course, it can and will always be cheaper to build/create/assemble in poorer countries so tariffs can be important. That said, between equal countries they of course can be suspended, including freedom of movement. The problem came when this was expanded to poorer countries which skewed all benefits. A low-tax economy is unfortunately often abused as another poster states, however the alternative stifles growth - the classic debate! Any evidence for high taxes stifling economic growth? I mean, I can't tell if this is serious. There's literally an ongoing debate between Oxford and LSE regards current proposed changes. It's a debate as old as bloody politics. There's clear evidence higher Corp tax affects innovation and growth but less regards personal tax, LSE argue working class invest in economy the richer tend to invest elsewhere. Appreciate you didn't probably mean it in that way and it was more rhetorical.
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Post by Ian H Block on Sept 20, 2022 18:19:39 GMT
Any evidence for high taxes stifling economic growth? I mean, I can't tell if this is serious. There's literally an ongoing debate between Oxford and LSE regards current proposed changes. It's a debate as old as bloody politics. There's clear evidence higher Corp tax affects innovation and growth but less regards personal tax, LSE argue working class invest in economy the richer tend to invest elsewhere. Appreciate you didn't probably mean it in that way and it was more rhetorical. U.K. Corporation Tax has never been so low yet the U.K. economy has never been less innovative. Explain that one . Exports have fallen off the edge of a cliff and the ERG lunatics who brought us Brexshit have now manoeuvred their very own Stepford Wife into No. 10. We are well and truly doomed.
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Post by avfo on Sept 24, 2022 0:40:51 GMT
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Post by flanno7hi on Sept 29, 2022 21:58:19 GMT
Irish socialist nationalist that lives in England, I know "go home then" etc. Sinn Fein/Green party voter when i was at home, Labour under Corbyn voter and Green Party whilst i have lived here.
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