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Post by charlielambert on May 8, 2023 10:09:25 GMT
This is a letter to the people who went onto the pitch at the end of the game yesterday to confront the Brackley fans, especially the person who led the way and actively encouraged others to follow him.
Today, the day after what happened yesterday, I wonder if you realise that you are an exact replica of one of the main causes of the Hillsborough disaster? That the same mindset which led to the deaths of 97 of our fellow football fans is now being carried forward by you? I'm not talking about the behaviour of fans on the day, just to be clear, I'm talking about something that goes back a bit further.
I know that many, probably most, of those of you who went onto the pitch yesterday were not alive when that terrible tragedy took place 34 years ago, on a bright, sunny afternoon not unlike the conditions at the Deva yesterday. And yet you took onto that pitch the root cause of Hillsborough, that reckless, malicious, selfish thirst for trouble.
Oh yes, I know that all sorts of factors contributed to the deaths of 95 fans on the day and two more who died after the event. I know about the woeful inadequacy of South Yorkshire Police’s preparations. I know about the failure of crowd control on the day. I know that Sheffield Wednesday FC, Sheffield City Council, and the FA also share responsibility for allowing the game to be staged at a stadium whose safety certificate was 10 years out of date. But I also know that football fans just like you were responsible too, and I’m not talking about the Liverpool fans on the day.
I’m talking about the fans who, back in the 1980s, invaded pitches, fought with opposing fans, attacked the police, and terrorised ordinary supporters, to such an extent that the clubs decided to put up fences to stop the invasions. And that’s why Hillsborough happened. If there’d been no fence in front of the Leppings Lane terrace, all the supporters could have evacuated safely onto the pitch. No-one would have died. The fences trapped them. The fences killed them. And who bears responsibility for the fences being there? People just like you.
I’ve presented radio programmes about Hillsborough. I’ve produced TV programmes about Hillsborough. In doing so, I’ve spent hours sitting and talking with mums and dads whose teenage children died that day. Yes – young people much the same age as some of you guys now, who never lived to have the lives that you have now. I’ve met people who thought they were in the last seconds of their lives, trapped in a crush that was only getting tighter, who still don’t know how they survived, who blacked out and when they came round found they were looking at a pile of bodies. I’ve spent a lot of time with people who have campaigned to ensure this never happens again, who have protested, raised funds, studied legal documents, written letters – basically, turning their whole lives upside down to make sure football grounds are safe places.
And then yesterday, you trashed all of that.
So I’d like to put a few questions to you today. How would you explain your actions if you sat down with the mum and dad of a teenager who died at Hillsborough because of those fences? How would you justify choosing to do something which exactly replicates the basic reason why their son or daughter died in the most terrible circumstances? What would you say to the guy who was pulled out of the crush seconds before being killed whose mental health was damaged for years afterwards? How would you justify doing something which would likely have caused him the most terrifying flashbacks? And could you find a convincing reason why the thousands of people who’ve fought to prevent another Hillsborough shouldn’t think that yesterday you totally disrespected all their dedication, all their effort, all their achievements?
What you did yesterday is exactly – exactly – what caused the Hillsborough disaster.
So have a think about those questions. Don’t answer them to me. Answer them to yourselves.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2023 10:22:55 GMT
This is a letter to the people who went onto the pitch at the end of the game yesterday to confront the Brackley fans, especially the person who led the way and actively encouraged others to follow him. Today, the day after what happened yesterday, I wonder if you realise that you are an exact replica of one of the main causes of the Hillsborough disaster? That the same mindset which led to the deaths of 97 of our fellow football fans is now being carried forward by you? I know that many, probably most, of those of you who went onto the pitch yesterday were not alive when that terrible tragedy took place 34 years ago, on a bright, sunny afternoon not unlike the conditions at the Deva yesterday. And yet you took onto that pitch the root cause of Hillsborough, that reckless, malicious, selfish thirst for trouble. Oh yes, I know that all sorts of factors contributed to the deaths of 95 fans on the day and two more who died after the event. I know about the woeful inadequacy of South Yorkshire Police’s preparations. I know about the failure of crowd control on the day. I know that Sheffield Wednesday FC, Sheffield City Council, and the FA also share responsibility for allowing the game to be staged at a stadium whose safety certificate was 10 years out of date. But I also know that football fans just like you were responsible too, and I’m not talking about the Liverpool fans on the day. I’m talking about the fans who, back in the 1980s, invaded pitches, fought with opposing fans, attacked the police, and terrorised ordinary supporters, to such an extent that the clubs decided to put up fences to stop the invasions. And that’s why Hillsborough happened. If there’d been no fence in front of the Leppings Lane terrace, all the supporters could have evacuated safely onto the pitch. No-one would have died. The fences trapped them. The fences killed them. And who bears responsibility for the fences being there? People just like you. I’ve presented radio programmes about Hillsborough. I’ve produced TV programmes about Hillsborough. In doing so, I’ve spent hours sitting and talking with mums and dads whose teenage children died that day. Yes – young people much the same age as some of you guys now, who never lived to have the lives that you have now. I’ve met people who thought they were in the last seconds of their lives, trapped in a crush that was only getting tighter, who still don’t know how they survived, who blacked out and when they came round found they were looking at a pile of bodies. I’ve spent a lot of time with people who have campaigned to ensure this never happens again, who have protested, raised funds, studied legal documents, written letters – basically, turning their whole lives upside down to make sure football grounds are safe places. And then yesterday, you trashed all of that. So I’d like to put a few questions to you today. How would you explain your actions if you sat down with the mum and dad of a teenager who died at Hillsborough because of those fences? How would you justify choosing to do something which exactly replicates the basic reason why their son or daughter died in the most terrible circumstances? What would you say to the guy who was pulled out of the crush seconds before being killed whose mental health was damaged for years afterwards? How would you justify doing something which would likely have caused him the most terrifying flashbacks? And could you find a convincing reason why the thousands of people who’ve fought to prevent another Hillsborough shouldn’t think that yesterday you totally disrespected all their dedication, all their effort, all their achievements? What you did yesterday is exactly – exactly – what caused the Hillsborough disaster. So have a think about those questions. Don’t answer them to me. Answer them to yourselves. Strong words but well put. Alluded to it in another post, but the Harry Mac swelled by 150-200 easily second half with people boasting about how easy it was to get in from other stands and without a ticket. This isn’t scaremongering but if we scored there would have 100% been injuries. The steps weren’t clear and with the number of people wedged between crush barriers, it was a recipe for disaster. You only have to look at the number of empty seats to wonder where them ‘fans’ went. I was saddened to see regulars who I stand with freezing my nuts off in the winter not feel safe. We’ve become a laughing stock. |
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Post by waggoner on May 8, 2023 10:26:30 GMT
I loath the idiots that caused trouble last night but mentioning Hillsborough in the same sentence that killed 97 fans and suggesting that it was caused due to fan violence is way far off the mark. We've seen the reasons for Hillsborough and it was not due to 'fan violence'. You need to rethink your contraversial comments here Charlie, the example you have used is not right at all As I read it he’s not saying it was like Hillsborough. I think he means that behaviour like yesterday was the very reason that the fences were up at Hillsborough, to keep people off the pitches. The fences were a tragic consequence of what happened. Alcohol is the culprit in the case of yesterdays problems, and of course a complete lack of brains on the part of the idiots who were involved. Such a shame that a fantastic season ended with pissed up idiots ruining the day for for everyone Someone had to lose and it was us. Some people need to grow up. If you cannot take losing you really need to find a more relaxing hobby like fishing? |
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Post by bing on May 8, 2023 10:27:57 GMT
I loath the idiots that caused trouble last night but mentioning Hillsborough in the same sentence that killed 97 fans and suggesting that it was caused due to fan violence is way far off the mark. We've seen the reasons for Hillsborough and it was not due to 'fan violence'. You need to rethink your contraversial comments here Charlie, the example you have used is not right at all The point Charlie is making, is that fences were erected as a result of prevalent violence in the 80s. He's not saying that the events on the day were caused by fan violence. |
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Post by Al on May 8, 2023 10:29:14 GMT
Aye I'll remove my comment
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Post by devamug72 on May 8, 2023 10:32:07 GMT
Aye I'll remove my comment My immediate reaction was the same! Once a read on I realised what Charlie was alluding to. |
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Post by Lobster on May 8, 2023 10:34:27 GMT
Yes, I winced when I read the second paragraph at first. Reading the whole thing it's a good argument, but I do worry some people might just read the beginning and take it out of context.
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Post by charlielambert on May 8, 2023 13:42:41 GMT
Yes, I winced when I read the second paragraph at first. Reading the whole thing it's a good argument, but I do worry some people might just read the beginning and take it out of context. Fair point, I've now edited my post to avoid that misunderstanding. |
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Post by bonecrusher on May 8, 2023 14:20:58 GMT
This is a letter to the people who went onto the pitch at the end of the game yesterday to confront the Brackley fans, especially the person who led the way and actively encouraged others to follow him. Today, the day after what happened yesterday, I wonder if you realise that you are an exact replica of one of the main causes of the Hillsborough disaster? That the same mindset which led to the deaths of 97 of our fellow football fans is now being carried forward by you? I know that many, probably most, of those of you who went onto the pitch yesterday were not alive when that terrible tragedy took place 34 years ago, on a bright, sunny afternoon not unlike the conditions at the Deva yesterday. And yet you took onto that pitch the root cause of Hillsborough, that reckless, malicious, selfish thirst for trouble. Oh yes, I know that all sorts of factors contributed to the deaths of 95 fans on the day and two more who died after the event. I know about the woeful inadequacy of South Yorkshire Police’s preparations. I know about the failure of crowd control on the day. I know that Sheffield Wednesday FC, Sheffield City Council, and the FA also share responsibility for allowing the game to be staged at a stadium whose safety certificate was 10 years out of date. But I also know that football fans just like you were responsible too, and I’m not talking about the Liverpool fans on the day. I’m talking about the fans who, back in the 1980s, invaded pitches, fought with opposing fans, attacked the police, and terrorised ordinary supporters, to such an extent that the clubs decided to put up fences to stop the invasions. And that’s why Hillsborough happened. If there’d been no fence in front of the Leppings Lane terrace, all the supporters could have evacuated safely onto the pitch. No-one would have died. The fences trapped them. The fences killed them. And who bears responsibility for the fences being there? People just like you. I’ve presented radio programmes about Hillsborough. I’ve produced TV programmes about Hillsborough. In doing so, I’ve spent hours sitting and talking with mums and dads whose teenage children died that day. Yes – young people much the same age as some of you guys now, who never lived to have the lives that you have now. I’ve met people who thought they were in the last seconds of their lives, trapped in a crush that was only getting tighter, who still don’t know how they survived, who blacked out and when they came round found they were looking at a pile of bodies. I’ve spent a lot of time with people who have campaigned to ensure this never happens again, who have protested, raised funds, studied legal documents, written letters – basically, turning their whole lives upside down to make sure football grounds are safe places. And then yesterday, you trashed all of that. So I’d like to put a few questions to you today. How would you explain your actions if you sat down with the mum and dad of a teenager who died at Hillsborough because of those fences? How would you justify choosing to do something which exactly replicates the basic reason why their son or daughter died in the most terrible circumstances? What would you say to the guy who was pulled out of the crush seconds before being killed whose mental health was damaged for years afterwards? How would you justify doing something which would likely have caused him the most terrifying flashbacks? And could you find a convincing reason why the thousands of people who’ve fought to prevent another Hillsborough shouldn’t think that yesterday you totally disrespected all their dedication, all their effort, all their achievements? What you did yesterday is exactly – exactly – what caused the Hillsborough disaster. So have a think about those questions. Don’t answer them to me. Answer them to yourselves. Strong words but well put. Alluded to it in another post, but the Harry Mac swelled by 150-200 easily second half with people boasting about how easy it was to get in from other stands and without a ticket. This isn’t scaremongering but if we scored there would have 100% been injuries. The steps weren’t clear and with the number of people wedged between crush barriers, it was a recipe for disaster. You only have to look at the number of empty seats to wonder where them ‘fans’ went. I was saddened to see regulars who I stand with freezing my nuts off in the winter not feel safe. We’ve become a laughing stock. Well said but those idiots won't read it not give a shit. |
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Post by Lobster on May 8, 2023 14:21:21 GMT
Yes, I winced when I read the second paragraph at first. Reading the whole thing it's a good argument, but I do worry some people might just read the beginning and take it out of context. Fair point, I've now edited my post to avoid that misunderstanding. Good call. Just to clarify, I don't think anyone could misinterpret when you said if they read it all the way through, but people don't! |
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Post by chesterstokie on May 8, 2023 16:43:35 GMT
Hopefully no Liverpool fans read it, doesn’t take much to set them off.
Embarrassing that they booed the national anthem.
I’am surprised they haven’t asked for a minute’s silence halfway through the Eurovision final lol
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Post by burrsdream on May 8, 2023 17:11:09 GMT
Shame the other thread on this subject got closed prematurely.
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Post by gone4eva on May 8, 2023 17:19:21 GMT
Shame the other thread on this subject got closed prematurely. Thought the same, was it a group decision or just one mod gone off on one? Can't think of a bigger topic at the moment but not able to discuss it - and there is more media being published online this afternoon. It also looks like a couple of very fair posts have been removed, the final one with a list of 4 questions appears to be deleted?! Who deleted it and why? They were very fair, not abusive, and gave context to why they were being asked. |
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Post by bing on May 8, 2023 17:21:09 GMT
Hopefully no Liverpool fans read it, doesn’t take much to set them off. Embarrassing that they booed the national anthem. I’am surprised they haven’t asked for a minute’s silence halfway through the Eurovision final lol Perhaps they react because it doesn't take much to set anti-Liverpool fans off, as you have just proven. |
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Post by blaconblues on May 8, 2023 17:32:58 GMT
Shame the other thread on this subject got closed prematurely. Thought the same, was it a group decision or just one mod gone off on one? Can't think of a bigger topic at the moment but not able to discuss it - and there is more media being published online this afternoon. It also looks like a couple of very fair posts have been removed, the final one with a list of 4 questions appears to be deleted?! Who deleted it and why? They were very fair, not abusive, and gave context to why they were being asked. Is this the one where the poster basically accused a Fundraiser of being a get together of 125? I've messaged him privately about that as he couldn't be further from the truth. I'm glad it was taken down as no one could reply to give him the facts around it. Agree it shouldn't have been closed however. |
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Post by chesterstokie on May 8, 2023 17:33:52 GMT
Are you a Liverpool fan by any chance bing?
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Post by bonecrusher on May 8, 2023 17:40:40 GMT
Hopefully no Liverpool fans read it, doesn’t take much to set them off. Embarrassing that they booed the national anthem. I’am surprised they haven’t asked for a minute’s silence halfway through the Eurovision final lol I am. Season tickets at Anfield and The Deva. As a Liverpool fan I thought his points were really well made. It was exactly that sort of behaviour that put the fences up which caused the deaths. Your comments about the national anthem probably meant to be 'banter' but in reality are naive and ignorant about a very complex situation. |
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Post by bing on May 8, 2023 17:45:18 GMT
Are you a Liverpool fan by any chance bing? They are my Premier League side, yes. Charlie's post didn't set me off btw as I know that he understands the intricacies around the subject. I responded to you as I thought your comment was ironic given that it was you who thought it relevant to take a dig at Liverpool fans on a thread designed to shame the perpetrators from yesterday! |
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Post by southernblue on May 8, 2023 22:20:25 GMT
Hopefully no Liverpool fans read it, doesn’t take much to set them off. Embarrassing that they booed the national anthem. I’am surprised they haven’t asked for a minute’s silence halfway through the Eurovision final lol Very insensitive comment that first line. My mate was a Chester fan and died in the Hillsborough disaster. |
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Post by oldboneze on May 9, 2023 7:44:33 GMT
Hopefully no Liverpool fans read it, doesn’t take much to set them off. Embarrassing that they booed the national anthem. I’am surprised they haven’t asked for a minute’s silence halfway through the Eurovision final lol Very insensitive comment that first line. My mate was a Chester fan and died in the Hillsborough disaster. Agreed. Chris Edwards died at Hillsborough. I knew him from childhood. His family were never the same again. |
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Post by yossergolf on May 9, 2023 8:53:33 GMT
Agree totally with the message that is intended in Mr Lamberts comments. Actions years ago resulted in fans being caged in due to pitch invasions etc. We never want to go back to those days but actions that occurred at the end of Sundays match have to stop.
Alcohol fuels the problem so hopefully the club will ban it going forward, as a club we have to do something.
Lifetime bans have to be issued and enforced for any that went onto the pitch on Sunday, yes it will impact on attendance but we are a community club and have to act like it.
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Post by miltongraham on May 9, 2023 11:58:41 GMT
Agree totally with the message that is intended in Mr Lamberts comments. Actions years ago resulted in fans being caged in due to pitch invasions etc. We never want to go back to those days but actions that occurred at the end of Sundays match have to stop. Alcohol fuels the problem so hopefully the club will ban it going forward, as a club we have to do something. Lifetime bans have to be issued and enforced for any that went onto the pitch on Sunday, yes it will impact on attendance but we are a community club and have to act like it. Its not all alcohol we only get this trouble at big games , they can get beer etc anywhere , 99 per cent of the attendance were well behaved. Its the dickheads who just come for the big occasions |
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Post by Moltisanti on May 9, 2023 12:02:14 GMT
Agree totally with the message that is intended in Mr Lamberts comments. Actions years ago resulted in fans being caged in due to pitch invasions etc. We never want to go back to those days but actions that occurred at the end of Sundays match have to stop. Alcohol fuels the problem so hopefully the club will ban it going forward, as a club we have to do something. Lifetime bans have to be issued and enforced for any that went onto the pitch on Sunday, yes it will impact on attendance but we are a community club and have to act like it. “Ban alcohol” Shut up mate for Christ sake. |
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Post by Al on May 9, 2023 12:04:17 GMT
Agree totally with the message that is intended in Mr Lamberts comments. Actions years ago resulted in fans being caged in due to pitch invasions etc. We never want to go back to those days but actions that occurred at the end of Sundays match have to stop. Alcohol fuels the problem so hopefully the club will ban it going forward, as a club we have to do something. Lifetime bans have to be issued and enforced for any that went onto the pitch on Sunday, yes it will impact on attendance but we are a community club and have to act like it. “Ban alcohol” Shut up mate for Christ sake. You can bet your bottom dollar sales in the ground will stop as a starter. SAG can enforce that one easily and has been done before at games. Club and fans groups have worked so hard this year to build our reputation in the city amongst the locals, we have probably the best pre match build up I've ever seen for a home game and we've absolutely blown it |
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Post by miltongraham on May 9, 2023 13:16:00 GMT
“Ban alcohol” Shut up mate for Christ sake. You can bet your bottom dollar sales in the ground will stop as a starter. SAG can enforce that one easily and has been done before at games. Club and fans groups have worked so hard this year to build our reputation in the city amongst the locals, we have probably the best pre match build up I've ever seen for a home game and we've absolutely blown it WE"VE The vast majority of fans were well behaved , did not recognise any on the pitch from the blues bar , all pissed from some where else , you can not end drinking I am afraid . |
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Post by cscs on May 9, 2023 15:58:31 GMT
We would have had to stop selling alcohol during the match if we'd gone up anyway so not like it's a must-have.
That said, I agree there's not that much evidence that it would make any difference
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Post by Jack on May 9, 2023 18:02:48 GMT
Hopefully no Liverpool fans read it, doesn’t take much to set them off. Embarrassing that they booed the national anthem.I’am surprised they haven’t asked for a minute’s silence halfway through the Eurovision final lol It's embarrassing that all clubs didn't do the same thing. Good on them. The rest of this post is 'banter' caveman shite, as well. |
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Post by devamug72 on May 9, 2023 18:43:30 GMT
Hopefully no Liverpool fans read it, doesn’t take much to set them off. Embarrassing that they booed the national anthem.I’am surprised they haven’t asked for a minute’s silence halfway through the Eurovision final lol It's embarrassing that all clubs didn't do the same thing. Good on them. The rest of this post is 'banter' caveman shite, as well. The only embarrassments here are you and your comment |
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Post by Churton Blue on May 9, 2023 18:48:25 GMT
Very much appreciated post from Charlie. Unlike some on here I am old enough to remember the tragedy and exactly why it happened.
As Charlie says people thought it was OK to invade the pitch and cause mayhem and therefore fences were erected as a result.
People then died one of the slowest most horrible deaths imaginable because people in the 70’s and 80’s, like on Sunday, though it was OK to invade the pitch.
From my point of view I would like all those brought to justice after the events of Sunday to be given a copy of this eloquent and powerfull post and If possible sit through one of the documentaries.
I am sure it would be lost on some of the pond life but hopefully underline an important message to those with the mental capacity to understand it.
I think the Deva Stadium was the first to be built post Taylor report ie without fences. Hopefully as many as possible receive football banning orders so they have plenty of time to reflect on their actions on a Saturday afternoon. Personally I hope we serve lifetime stadium bans so they never visit the Deva ever again.
Just as en edit to those who carry smoke bombs and flares and think that is OK. I was at school with someone who set off a powerfull flare at a match in Cardiff. It shot across the Stadium and killed another person at the match. Can not understand why anybody in their right mind thinks it OK to set off and throw such objects at a football match. The person who did this on Sunday will hopefully be spending time in jail just like the lad I was at school with.
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