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Post by weareblues on Mar 25, 2024 22:27:46 GMT
Bigger club, Bigger crowds, Bigger sponsors, They've also not been stuck in non league either completley different situatuon to us imo
Bigger wages. Bigger outgoings. They’re in exactly the same situation as us. That is, trying to get enough money together to compete at the level they’re at. Also have Bigger transfer fees, TV Money, Bigger prize money / Parachute payments, Play in more cup competitions. Problem we've got is clubs higher up wont pay big money for players at our level and we've never really made anything from sell ons.
Hope im proved wrong but honestly do feel like something we've got to change something.
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Post by league2 on Mar 25, 2024 22:35:14 GMT
There is a hard-core of say 200 fans on here who will have nothing but fan ownership. Outside of that fans that don't read or post on deva chat every one I speak to would like some outside investment, but like I posted earlier its just not around
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Post by Imperial on Mar 26, 2024 0:21:01 GMT
There is a hard-core of say 200 fans on here who will have nothing but fan ownership. Outside of that fans that don't read or post on deva chat every one I speak to would like some outside investment, but like I posted earlier its just not around There is not a single fan that wouldn’t accept investment under the right circumstances, there’s far too many who would take any offer regardless of the clown offering it or the quaffball pitch they would insist on being installed.
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Post by waggoner on Mar 26, 2024 7:08:53 GMT
For the love of fuck just fucking leave it. IN WHAT WORLD IS SOMEONE GOING TO INVEST FOR 49% IN A NON LEAGUE CLUB TO LOSE MONEY EVERY MONTH. Our budget or model has nothing to do with on field performances. It took us 3rd last year and we win 4/5 we’ll be in the playoffs. Some people on here are so dense. I work on the wind farms off Rhyl and I feel like Einstein compared to half this forum. Said in an ideal world. Look at the likes of Darlington, Telford, Fc United, Wrexham etc It only takes you too far only way its going to work is if we up the costs of minimum CFU Membership to £5 Struggle to see how people seem to think we'd financially surive in league above if we went up with current model. So much money been pumped into that league since we was last in it.
Understand why people like the fan ownership model but you've got to ask where you realistically see us next 10-20 years.
football at this level probably won’t be around on 20 years the way the PL are creaming off all of the money.
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Post by Harry Lime on Mar 26, 2024 7:32:41 GMT
Said in an ideal world. Look at the likes of Darlington, Telford, Fc United, Wrexham etc It only takes you too far only way its going to work is if we up the costs of minimum CFU Membership to £5 Struggle to see how people seem to think we'd financially surive in league above if we went up with current model. So much money been pumped into that league since we was last in it.
Understand why people like the fan ownership model but you've got to ask where you realistically see us next 10-20 years.
football at this level probably won’t be around on 20 years the way the PL are creaming off all of the money. There was an article on Sky Sports last week regarding the money the PL sides give to the pyramid. Orient were used as an example of needing more money. Unless I misread the caption they had received £3.8m over the last 5 seasons, plus an extra £1.3m for their charitable work. Thats £1m per season, which roughly matched our turnover. If that's correct, you can see why clubs are desperate to get into the FL. Ironic thing with all this money is that it mostly goes on players (and agents) wages, and goes out if the game. Would the game be worse off if players in L2 earned an average working wage, as used to be the case, rather than a higher one?
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Post by Harry Lime on Mar 26, 2024 7:41:23 GMT
People going on about needing Millionaire owners maybe right.
Have any of them considered the fact that we are the owners, and collectively we are Millionaires. It is down to us collectively on how much money the club can spend on players wages. We put more in and we likely get better players.
It's strange how it's often those asking for a Millionaire owner don't actually put their hand in to support the Squad Builder or Boost the Budget initiatives.
Some of them don't get it, don't want to get it, and never will.
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Post by Moltisanti on Mar 26, 2024 7:53:57 GMT
People going on about needing Millionaire owners maybe right. Have any of them considered the fact that we are the owners, and collectively we are Millionaires. It is down to us collectively on how much money the club can spend on players wages. We put more in and we likely get better players. It's strange how it's often those asking for a Millionaire owner don't actually put their hand in to support the Squad Builder or Boost the Budget initiatives. Some of them don't get it, don't want to get it, and never will. Spot on.
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Post by agl on Mar 26, 2024 8:13:10 GMT
Surely there becomes a point where we have to start considering the way the clubs ran We've spent more time in this league then we have the NL Since reformation. Whole reason we ended up back in this league was due to fan ownership not working for us against the big spenders. Theres a reason clubs are avoiding it when reforming & others also looking for investment.
In an ideal world 51/49 model would be our best hope.
Whole reason we ended up back in this league was because we persisted with a manager who was shit. Again, who on earth would want to invest for a 49 per cent stake? Funny how this argument wasn't trotted out when we were cruising in 3rd place. Fan ownership was working fine then, it seems.
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Post by Moltisanti on Mar 26, 2024 8:19:48 GMT
Everyone knows soon as we go on a bad run the fan owned shouts come out. Then when they’re questioned they can’t give a valid solution/plan.
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Post by league2 on Mar 26, 2024 8:34:52 GMT
Fan ownership works 100%, the problem is at what level, can we go up another league and survive maybe, maybe not. So it really comes down to what a fan will except as a reasonable level of football.
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Post by Rimmer on Mar 26, 2024 9:00:25 GMT
Whatever way you look at it there is no way the clique Jim & Albert (Must’ve missed the advertisement of the GM role) are going anywhere anytime soon. Happy keeping it between themselves appointing their mate as manager so unless Jose walks then they will keep giving him new deals regardless of results or league position. Heard Jim Green has taken on some director of football role on by saying no to the signing Ritchie Bennett on loan - Not sure how he’s qualified on the incomings into the football club. Missed a massive trick in not doing everything to sign Bennett on loan been absolutely ideal but Jim said no so that’s that - Suppose Norton Burton Windsor have been some cracking forward signings to name a few Unless accept some form of ownership model change then be non league for the rest of time I find this hard to believe 😳
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Post by agl on Mar 26, 2024 9:10:44 GMT
Fan ownership works 100%, the problem is at what level, can we go up another league and survive maybe, maybe not. So it really comes down to what a fan will except as a reasonable level of football. Absolutely. We are actually a highly successful example of how the model can work. My own belief is that, with good management, hard work and a bit of luck, we can be a solid NL club.
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Post by moldcestrian on Mar 26, 2024 9:14:17 GMT
People going on about needing Millionaire owners maybe right. Have any of them considered the fact that we are the owners, and collectively we are Millionaires. It is down to us collectively on how much money the club can spend on players wages. We put more in and we likely get better players. It's strange how it's often those asking for a Millionaire owner don't actually put their hand in to support the Squad Builder or Boost the Budget initiatives. Some of them don't get it, don't want to get it, and never will. Best explanation and view on our ownership I’ve read
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Post by agl on Mar 26, 2024 9:45:41 GMT
People going on about needing Millionaire owners maybe right. Have any of them considered the fact that we are the owners, and collectively we are Millionaires. It is down to us collectively on how much money the club can spend on players wages. We put more in and we likely get better players. It's strange how it's often those asking for a Millionaire owner don't actually put their hand in to support the Squad Builder or Boost the Budget initiatives. Some of them don't get it, don't want to get it, and never will. Best explanation and view on our ownership I’ve read Up to a point. Trouble is, we've all got a limited amount of cash. You can't endlessly go back to the same people who are already digging deep and keep asking for more.
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Post by weareblues on Mar 26, 2024 9:57:38 GMT
Surely there becomes a point where we have to start considering the way the clubs ran We've spent more time in this league then we have the NL Since reformation. Whole reason we ended up back in this league was due to fan ownership not working for us against the big spenders. Theres a reason clubs are avoiding it when reforming & others also looking for investment.
In an ideal world 51/49 model would be our best hope.
Whole reason we ended up back in this league was because we persisted with a manager who was shit. Again, who on earth would want to invest for a 49 per cent stake? Funny how this argument wasn't trotted out when we were cruising in 3rd place. Fan ownership was working fine then, it seems. Nothing to do with the way the club was being ran at the time aswell? We was a mess and we overspent trying to compete with the rest and it landed us almost back to square one even under fan ownership.
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Post by weareblues on Mar 26, 2024 9:59:56 GMT
Best explanation and view on our ownership I’ve read Up to a point. Trouble is, we've all got a limited amount of cash. You can't endlessly go back to the same people who are already digging deep and keep asking for more. Best option is to put the CFU membership to £5 a month minnimum £1 a month simply isn’t enough for where we wanna be I know you can put custom amounts each month but something needs to be done if we want to progress
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Post by Harry Lime on Mar 26, 2024 10:24:53 GMT
Best explanation and view on our ownership I’ve read Up to a point. Trouble is, we've all got a limited amount of cash. You can't endlessly go back to the same people who are already digging deep and keep asking for more. I'm not suggesting everybody should keep digging deep. If you can't afford to, then you shouldn't. Simple. Family, food, heating etc etc come well ahead of a hobby. What is £5 to one person is the same as £50 to another. However, some just expect a rich person to do it instead, to provide their entertainment. Let's say we have 1000 adults who have the means and the desire to contribute £10 a month to a Boost the Budget. That gives us £120k a season extra. If they contributed an average of £20 the club would have £240k extra, increasing the budget by about 50% (??) depending on how you interpret the figures. Would we expect a 3rd party rich owner to put that much in each season? Yeah, I would. Many of us spend around £800 a season watching our club, including Season Tickets, Away tickets, Petrol/Trains/Coaches, not to mention food and day drink. An extra £10 or £20 a month doesn't seem much in the big scheme of things to help that satisfaction in travelling back from the match knowing you've won and played well.
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Post by Si on Mar 26, 2024 10:48:45 GMT
Winds me up when this shit crops up every time a bad run of results happen. If we were sitting in third with play offs more or less guaranteed then this thread wouldn't be on here. A few bad results and people wet the bed thinking we need new owners. If we don't make the play offs this season then that is not a failing of the clubs ownership model - it would be a failing of the management and players that we didn't achieve the objective set at the start of the season. We haven't failed to score in recent games because we are fan owned, it's because the tactics have gone stale and players confidence is on it's arse. I'm sure Calum was given a decent enough playing budget at the start of the season, and the board have backed him with contract extensions of key players - the only good player we lost was Willoughby and that's through no fault of the club or Calum, he wanted to go and play higher up. We haven't not made the play offs yet either, granted our form is shite but it's still entirely feasible that we'll make it.....if we do make it then you won't see a thread like this on here!
As others have said higher up, nobody is stopping anyone from making a bid for the club. The board have never not said we're up for sale - if we ever received a viable offer then I'm sure there would be a large level of fan consultation before it progressed, and that's how it should be. As it stands, we've only ever had 1 external investor who contributed some funds but turns out it was part of a longer strategy to make the club unable to function without that funding which in turn would allow him to swoop in and take ownership on the cheap and do god knows what with the club. When challenged, he could not provide a business plan, so it was dead in the water before it even started. Nobody else has come along since, so we continue to do the best we can within the parameters of fan ownership - over the last couple of years we've managed to get attendances back up to over 2000 again and had various new sponsorship into the club, competed in the play offs last year and may still do this year....it's not Chester City in the football league but it's not bad considering we're doing it all ourselves. If people expect us to openly go out and flirt with businessman to invest then we'll end up in the wrong hands yet again.
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Post by agl on Mar 26, 2024 11:21:53 GMT
Winds me up when this shit crops up every time a bad run of results happen. If we were sitting in third with play offs more or less guaranteed then this thread wouldn't be on here. A few bad results and people wet the bed thinking we need new owners. If we don't make the play offs this season then that is not a failing of the clubs ownership model - it would be a failing of the management and players that we didn't achieve the objective set at the start of the season. We haven't failed to score in recent games because we are fan owned, it's because the tactics have gone stale and players confidence is on it's arse. I'm sure Calum was given a decent enough playing budget at the start of the season, and the board have backed him with contract extensions of key players - the only good player we lost was Willoughby and that's through no fault of the club or Calum, he wanted to go and play higher up. We haven't not made the play offs yet either, granted our form is shite but it's still entirely feasible that we'll make it.....if we do make it then you won't see a thread like this on here! As others have said higher up, nobody is stopping anyone from making a bid for the club. The board have never not said we're up for sale - if we ever received a viable offer then I'm sure there would be a large level of fan consultation before it progressed, and that's how it should be. As it stands, we've only ever had 1 external investor who contributed some funds but turns out it was part of a longer strategy to make the club unable to function without that funding which in turn would allow him to swoop in and take ownership on the cheap and do god knows what with the club. When challenged, he could not provide a business plan, so it was dead in the water before it even started. Nobody else has come along since, so we continue to do the best we can within the parameters of fan ownership - over the last couple of years we've managed to get attendances back up to over 2000 again and had various new sponsorship into the club, competed in the play offs last year and may still do this year....it's not Chester City in the football league but it's not bad considering we're doing it all ourselves. If people expect us to openly go out and flirt with businessman to invest then we'll end up in the wrong hands yet again. Just copy and paste this every time this crops up. Sums up perfectly our situation.
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Post by Anders on Mar 26, 2024 11:48:44 GMT
Surely there becomes a point where we have to start considering the way the clubs ran We've spent more time in this league then we have the NL Since reformation. Whole reason we ended up back in this league was due to fan ownership not working for us against the big spenders. Theres a reason clubs are avoiding it when reforming & others also looking for investment.
In an ideal world 51/49 model would be our best hope.
Whole reason we ended up back in this league was because we persisted with a manager who was shit. Again, who on earth would want to invest for a 49 per cent stake? Funny how this argument wasn't trotted out when we were cruising in 3rd place. Fan ownership was working fine then, it seems. Agree.
IIRC the season before we went down we were 7th at Christmas with three players (one on loan) who are now playing week in and out on the EFL. We then barely won another game all season. McCarthy lost the plot, stupidly stuck with him and wasted a lot of money on crap or past it players in the Summer. Fan ownership wasn't to blame for that. If we'd had a few more quid, so would Andy Halls and Kingsley James right now.
One issue I do have is that for us to keep pushing on, a club that relies on home crowds so much needs to play a slightly more expansive and entertaining game on home turf to maximise what we can do.
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Post by weareblues on Mar 26, 2024 12:00:53 GMT
Whole reason we ended up back in this league was because we persisted with a manager who was shit. Again, who on earth would want to invest for a 49 per cent stake? Funny how this argument wasn't trotted out when we were cruising in 3rd place. Fan ownership was working fine then, it seems. Agree.
IIRC the season before we went down we were 7th at Christmas with three players (one on loan) who are now playing week in and out on the EFL. We then barely won another game all season. McCarthy lost the plot, stupidly stuck with him and wasted a lot of money on crap or past it players in the Summer. Fan ownership wasn't to blame for that. If we'd had a few more quid, so would Andy Halls and Kingsley James right now.
One issue I do have is that for us to keep pushing on, a club that relies on home crowds so much needs to play a slightly more expansive and entertaining game on home turf to maximise what we can do.
I mean the board were just to much to blame as McCarthy that season End the day we’ve been stuck in this league longer than we spent in the NL. We had one decent season at that level the rest were spent in relegation battles or relegated. So unless people are happy with 6th division regional football this is our level these days
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Post by Anders on Mar 26, 2024 12:07:13 GMT
Agree.
IIRC the season before we went down we were 7th at Christmas with three players (one on loan) who are now playing week in and out on the EFL. We then barely won another game all season. McCarthy lost the plot, stupidly stuck with him and wasted a lot of money on crap or past it players in the Summer. Fan ownership wasn't to blame for that. If we'd had a few more quid, so would Andy Halls and Kingsley James right now.
One issue I do have is that for us to keep pushing on, a club that relies on home crowds so much needs to play a slightly more expansive and entertaining game on home turf to maximise what we can do.
I mean the board were just to much to blame as McCarthy that season End the day we’ve been stuck in this league longer than we spent in the NL. We had one decent season at that level the rest were spent in relegation battles or relegated. So unless people are happy with 6th division regional football this is our level these days Stockport spent six seasons in this league whilst it looks like Tamworth will be here for one. What's the reasons for that?
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Post by weareblues on Mar 26, 2024 12:10:45 GMT
I mean the board were just to much to blame as McCarthy that season End the day we’ve been stuck in this league longer than we spent in the NL. We had one decent season at that level the rest were spent in relegation battles or relegated. So unless people are happy with 6th division regional football this is our level these days Stockport spent six seasons in this league whilst it looks like Tamworth will be here for one. What's the reasons for that? Look at Stockport now they’ve had some investment Also yet again much bigger club than us with bigger crowds too. Tamworth have a 4G pitch so got other sources of income coming in where our main source of incomes gate receipts and donations
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Post by agl on Mar 26, 2024 12:12:23 GMT
Agree.
IIRC the season before we went down we were 7th at Christmas with three players (one on loan) who are now playing week in and out on the EFL. We then barely won another game all season. McCarthy lost the plot, stupidly stuck with him and wasted a lot of money on crap or past it players in the Summer. Fan ownership wasn't to blame for that. If we'd had a few more quid, so would Andy Halls and Kingsley James right now.
One issue I do have is that for us to keep pushing on, a club that relies on home crowds so much needs to play a slightly more expansive and entertaining game on home turf to maximise what we can do.
I mean the board were just to much to blame as McCarthy that season End the day we’ve been stuck in this league longer than we spent in the NL. We had one decent season at that level the rest were spent in relegation battles or relegated. So unless people are happy with 6th division regional football this is our level these days OK, we just need to make sure we have the right manager and the right board. It was mainly down to poor recruitment...some of those players weren't even NLN standard.
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Post by Anders on Mar 26, 2024 12:14:03 GMT
Stockport spent six seasons in this league whilst it looks like Tamworth will be here for one. What's the reasons for that? Look at Stockport now they’ve had some investment Also yet again much bigger club than us with bigger crowds too. Wrexham spent 15 years in the league above whilst Sutton & Barrow were there for 5 etc etc.
Look at how Altrincham and Halifax are doing right now, neither of those have anywhere near top budgets.
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Post by weareblues on Mar 26, 2024 12:14:39 GMT
I mean the board were just to much to blame as McCarthy that season End the day we’ve been stuck in this league longer than we spent in the NL. We had one decent season at that level the rest were spent in relegation battles or relegated. So unless people are happy with 6th division regional football this is our level these days OK, we just need to make sure we have the right manager and the right board. It was mainly down to poor recruitment...some of those players weren't even NLN standard. Get what you mean however we’ve appointed numerous managers with decent past and nothings changed None them could take us where they wanted under our budget Makes you wonder
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Post by weareblues on Mar 26, 2024 12:17:07 GMT
Look at Stockport now they’ve had some investment Also yet again much bigger club than us with bigger crowds too. Wrexham spent 15 years in the league above whilst Sutton & Barrow were there for 5 etc etc.
Look at how Altrincham and Halifax are doing right now, neither of those have anywhere near top budgets.
Fairly sure Halifax are part privately owned now I know they was looking for investment not long ago Sutton also 4G pitch and Fa Cup run money. We can’t sustain where we want to be when we charge £1 a month to own the club fact.
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cmbwa
Full Member
Posts: 226
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Post by cmbwa on Mar 26, 2024 12:17:26 GMT
With it seeming increasingly probable that we might miss out on the playoffs this year, what measures do we need to take to secure promotion from this league? Is it perhaps time to reconsider the fan ownership model? Piss off Weststander
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Post by Anders on Mar 26, 2024 12:30:13 GMT
Wrexham spent 15 years in the league above whilst Sutton & Barrow were there for 5 etc etc.
Look at how Altrincham and Halifax are doing right now, neither of those have anywhere near top budgets.
Fairly sure Halifax are part privately owned now I know they was looking for investment not long ago Sutton also 4G pitch and Fa Cup run money. We can’t sustain where we want to be when we charge £1 a month to own the club fact. Halifax have no money at all regardless. Point is none of the clubs mentioned were ever anywhere near top budgets. They appointed managers who made the most of what they had and recruited well. Pete Wild fired Halifax to the play-offs the other year with Billy Waters doing all the damage after being picked up off the Torquay scrapheap. A year or two before he tore us to pieces for Cheltenham but one poor year and he was unfashionable.
In our highest ever finish since reformation we had no money whatsoever but Burr recruited well. E.g McConville.
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Post by weareblues on Mar 26, 2024 12:39:32 GMT
Fairly sure Halifax are part privately owned now I know they was looking for investment not long ago Sutton also 4G pitch and Fa Cup run money. We can’t sustain where we want to be when we charge £1 a month to own the club fact. Halifax have no money at all regardless. Point is none of the clubs mentioned were ever anywhere near top budgets. They appointed managers who made the most of what they had and recruited well. Pete Wild fired Halifax to the play-offs the other year with Billy Waters doing all the damage after being picked up off the Torquay scrapheap. A year or two before he tore us to pieces for Cheltenham but one poor year and he was unfashionable.
In our highest ever finish since reformation we had no money whatsoever but Burr recruited well. E.g McConville.
Can you explain why Hereford & Darlo have always struggled in this league then? Footballs changed a lot since that season under burr so much more money involved even in lower non league, NLN this season is arguably one the weakest it’s been since we’ve been back down here we should be taking advantage of that.
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