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Post by theshed1 on Jun 25, 2024 21:39:33 GMT
Too slow too predictable I wonder if these players are as good as we think they are or is it because they play alongside world class players week in week out that makes them look better than they are. They have shown nothing yet to suggest we are going to go much further
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Post by weareblues on Jun 25, 2024 21:43:22 GMT
Think it’s quite obvious Southgate’s lost the dressing room at this point Tournament too far for him shame because he did so well bringing back the buzz around the national team but his stubbornness has cost him too much
Hope he proves me wrong and we snap back Sunday but England haven’t put in a solid performance for a good 2 years almost
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Post by welshrover on Jun 25, 2024 21:47:48 GMT
Sat having a few piva in a bar in Belgrade, obviously the game of choice on the TV is Serbia Denmark. Not a great deal happened in that game either. So the first round pretty much over, favourites Spain / Portugal or Austria? Switzerland playing well too Just read somewhere that due to the way the draw happens Spain / Portugal/ Germany will dispose of each other en route to the final. Haven't studied it but apparently England can't face any of the fancied teams in their pathway. Don't know if that is correct or not??
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tooth
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Post by tooth on Jun 25, 2024 21:48:53 GMT
Whacked it straight on an England win? 😄 no actually south Africa to win the T20 world cup morikawa to win the open 2-50 each way on each
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Post by league2 on Jun 25, 2024 21:49:27 GMT
Saka and Bellingham have been big let downs so far just don't seem to be doing much
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Post by Lobster on Jun 25, 2024 21:49:46 GMT
A byproduct of handing Slovenia the draw they needed to be the best third placed team is it now looks very likely we'll be playing the Netherlands in the next round. If Slovenia had gone out there was a decent chance it would've been Turkey, Czech Republic or Georgia.
England have NEVER knocked a top side out of a tournament away from home soil.
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tooth
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Post by tooth on Jun 25, 2024 21:50:05 GMT
Switzerland playing well too Just read somewhere that due to the way the draw happens Spain / Portugal/ Germany will dispose of each other en route to the final. Haven't studied it but apparently England can't face any of the fancied teams in their pathway. Don't know if that is correct or not?? could face holland then italy or Switzerland so that wont be easy
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Post by Lobster on Jun 25, 2024 21:50:33 GMT
Switzerland playing well too Just read somewhere that due to the way the draw happens Spain / Portugal/ Germany will dispose of each other en route to the final. Haven't studied it but apparently England can't face any of the fancied teams in their pathway. Don't know if that is correct or not?? Depends if you class the Dutch and then Italy as "fancied teams"
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tooth
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Post by tooth on Jun 25, 2024 21:52:09 GMT
Wharton has played something like 13 games in the Premier League. Mainoo has only broken into a poor United team this year. At the start of the season they were both playing for England under 19s. Gallagher is Chelsea's player of the season; their fans love him. He isn't absolutely top class, but he works his socks off, is defensively sound, and his creative stats last season were right up there. As a like for like replacement to Phillips he's the obvious option, and will be better than anything the opposition have on the pitch tonight. There's another completely different argument about what the best formation to play is, but for this particular positional choice it's ludicrous to suggest Southgate is 'clueless'. spot on. Good player Gallagher is he I'm not convinced he is sorry bang average midtable team he would be good for
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Post by Curva Nord on Jun 25, 2024 21:53:38 GMT
Think it’s quite obvious Southgate’s lost the dressing room at this point Tournament too far for him shame because he did so well bringing back the buzz around the national team but his stubbornness has cost him too much Hope he proves me wrong and we snap back Sunday but England haven’t put in a solid performance for a good 2 years almost Are you inside the England camp? If he'd lost the dressing room, they'd not play to his system.
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tooth
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Post by tooth on Jun 25, 2024 21:53:47 GMT
Just read somewhere that due to the way the draw happens Spain / Portugal/ Germany will dispose of each other en route to the final. Haven't studied it but apparently England can't face any of the fancied teams in their pathway. Don't know if that is correct or not?? Depends if you class the Dutch and then Italy as "fancied teams" im actually talking about Switzerland italy always beat England at major tournaments though
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tooth
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Post by tooth on Jun 25, 2024 21:54:23 GMT
Think it’s quite obvious Southgate’s lost the dressing room at this point Tournament too far for him shame because he did so well bringing back the buzz around the national team but his stubbornness has cost him too much Hope he proves me wrong and we snap back Sunday but England haven’t put in a solid performance for a good 2 years almost Are you inside the England camp? If he'd lost the dressing room, they'd not play to his system. there not playing for him
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Post by vandycandy on Jun 25, 2024 21:56:34 GMT
Just read somewhere that due to the way the draw happens Spain / Portugal/ Germany will dispose of each other en route to the final. Haven't studied it but apparently England can't face any of the fancied teams in their pathway. Don't know if that is correct or not?? Depends if you class the Dutch and then Italy as "fancied teams" I think we'd struggle to break down anyone. If we are to play the Netherlands then I'd fancy them to beat us.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 25, 2024 21:57:01 GMT
spot on. Good player Gallagher is he I'm not convinced he is sorry bang average midtable team he would be good for Chelsea were a midtable team for most of last season, not sure how they managed to finish 6th.
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tooth
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Post by tooth on Jun 25, 2024 21:59:50 GMT
is he I'm not convinced he is sorry bang average midtable team he would be good for Chelsea were a midtable team for most of last season, not sure how they managed to finish 6th. that was down to cole Palmer and Newcastle and man utd both shit
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tooth
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Post by tooth on Jun 25, 2024 22:01:02 GMT
Depends if you class the Dutch and then Italy as "fancied teams" I think we'd struggle to break down anyone. If we are to play the Netherlands then I'd fancy them to beat us. I watched that game today if Austria can do that I do fancy England to beat them
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Post by noddy on Jun 25, 2024 22:01:42 GMT
spot on. Good player Gallagher is he I'm not convinced he is sorry bang average midtable team he would be good for Mainoo certainly the more progressive player of the two, at least prepared to take a ball on the half turn and attempt to go forward. The full backs were poor tonight, neither got past the opposing full backs to provide a cross from the bye line all night. Bellingham was disappointing, leggy also. Guehi was ok, though a mistake in the last couple of games might have been punished against better opposition. We go again Saturday though, in a tournament that's so open it's difficult to call, but unless Southgate is braver, changes his mentality more to trying to win games rather than not losing then it's only a matter of time (might even be the next game) before we get found out.
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Post by noddy on Jun 25, 2024 22:04:36 GMT
I think we'd struggle to break down anyone. If we are to play the Netherlands then I'd fancy them to beat us. I watched that game today if Austria can do that I do fancy England to beat them If you get players running in between the lines, like Austria did! Otherwise with the current set up and tempo we would struggle to beat anyone is my take on things at the moment.
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tooth
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Post by tooth on Jun 25, 2024 22:28:45 GMT
I watched that game today if Austria can do that I do fancy England to beat them If you get players running in between the lines, like Austria did! Otherwise with the current set up and tempo we would struggle to beat anyone is my take on things at the moment. thats true and austria were brilliant
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tooth
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Post by tooth on Jun 25, 2024 23:19:26 GMT
I've said it before and I will say it again England were lucky at the last euros easy group beat a poor Germany team a handpicked Ukraine side and a bang average Denmark team Italy knew every trick in the book same in 2018 a mordic and mandzuckic masterclass Southgate good but not brilliant
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Post by proudblue on Jun 26, 2024 5:31:38 GMT
I've said it before and I will say it again England were lucky at the last euros easy group beat a poor Germany team a handpicked Ukraine side and a bang average Denmark team Italy knew every trick in the book same in 2018 a mordic and mandzuckic masterclass Southgate good but not brilliant I get the impression you look at everything the team does through anti-Southgate eyes and seem keen to dismiss any victories achieved under him. Yes the paths have been generally favourable, but they were navigated in a way that hasn’t always been the case in the past. In the last Euros it was a case of making your own luck really by winning a group including Croatia. Should add that I’m not defending Southgate. The final against Italy was a big disappointment, it’s been a grim watch so far this time and I do think it’s time for a change after the tournament.
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tooth
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Post by tooth on Jun 26, 2024 6:11:47 GMT
I've said it before and I will say it again England were lucky at the last euros easy group beat a poor Germany team a handpicked Ukraine side and a bang average Denmark team Italy knew every trick in the book same in 2018 a mordic and mandzuckic masterclass Southgate good but not brilliant I get the impression you look at everything the team does through anti-Southgate eyes and seem keen to dismiss any victories achieved under him. Yes the paths have been generally favourable, but they were navigated in a way that hasn’t always been the case in the past. In the last Euros it was a case of making your own luck really by winning a group including Croatia. Should add that I’m not defending Southgate. The final against Italy was a big disappointment, it’s been a grim watch so far this time and I do think it’s time for a change after the tournament. I'm not anti Southgate at all and you can only beat whats in front of you but i don't like the fact he doesnt have a plan b and the last euros trying defend a 1-0 lead against italy that italian was far too good hopefully they turn it around but needs a drastic change
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Post by Si on Jun 26, 2024 7:36:12 GMT
Hate being too harsh on Southgate as I think in general he's done a good job with England, but it's pretty obvious that he's ran out of ideas to tactically operate at this level and when you look some some of the managers the players play for at club level then it must be vastly different for them to work with. Southgate is a perfect U21 manager as his strengths are creating a good culture and environment, but now that he's got a squad packed with options he's floundering and looks out of his depth at senior level.
The left side killed us last night, having 2 right sides players occupying those positions. It just meant we were always having to cut inside - perhaps harsh on Foden who was trying his best to make things happen, but again he had to cut inside and eventually it becomes easy to mark. Kane still isn't fully firing, wasteful at times and not holding the ball up that well. Bellingham was awful - I'm a big fan of him but he was either too casual or trying too hard, showing a lot of signs of a young player in need of a physical and mental break, but Southgate won't have the balls to drop him.
Mainoo looked like an upgrade on Gallagher, so I'd hope to see him from the start next time. I like Saka, but I'd rather see Foden playing in his position and then a natural left footer in Gordon on the other side, that should see us look a lot more balanced.
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Post by Harry Lime on Jun 26, 2024 8:05:48 GMT
Hate being too harsh on Southgate as I think in general he's done a good job with England, but it's pretty obvious that he's ran out of ideas to tactically operate at this level and when you look some some of the managers the players play for at club level then it must be vastly different for them to work with. Southgate is a perfect U21 manager as his strengths are creating a good culture and environment, but now that he's got a squad packed with options he's floundering and looks out of his depth at senior level. The left side killed us last night, having 2 right sides players occupying those positions. It just meant we were always having to cut inside - perhaps harsh on Foden who was trying his best to make things happen, but again he had to cut inside and eventually it becomes easy to mark. Kane still isn't fully firing, wasteful at times and not holding the ball up that well. Bellingham was awful - I'm a big fan of him but he was either too casual or trying too hard, showing a lot of signs of a young player in need of a physical and mental break, but Southgate won't have the balls to drop him. Mainoo looked like an upgrade on Gallagher, so I'd hope to see him from the start next time. I like Saka, but I'd rather see Foden playing in his position and then a natural left footer in Gordon on the other side, that should see us look a lot more balanced. Pretty fair assessment. Actually I was thinking Eze might be the loose cannon we needed last night. Problem is, when he came on against Iceland he kept running into pockets and lost the ball. Southgate wouldn't have wanted to play him again after that. Maybe used as a late substitute he could be an option to change a game. Most teams need someone to run at the opposition and upset their man to man marking systems. If they double up there should be space elsewhere.
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Post by Eddie Gray's left foot on Jun 26, 2024 9:17:39 GMT
Well done Gareth Southgate. You've managed to turn the Golden Generation of Bellingham, Sake, Rice, Foden et al into a bunch of journeyman. Eight wasted years!
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Post by Eddie Gray's left foot on Jun 26, 2024 9:22:09 GMT
Just read somewhere that due to the way the draw happens Spain / Portugal/ Germany will dispose of each other en route to the final. Haven't studied it but apparently England can't face any of the fancied teams in their pathway. Don't know if that is correct or not?? Depends if you class the Dutch and then Italy as "fancied teams" The Dutch are nothing special, but they'll have enough guile to knock us out.
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Post by highpeakblue on Jun 26, 2024 9:42:44 GMT
Let's just give up and go home now then.
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Post by Anders on Jun 26, 2024 10:04:56 GMT
Bellingham is becoming an issue, he looks tired but also he doesn’t look like a 10 either, especially one forced to play in tight spaces against teams sitting back, his best work so far apart from the goal against Serbia has ben his defensive duties, so I get the calls to drop him back.
Foden despite doing next to nothing in an England shirt generally feels like one of the few to have got a bit better with each game. He tried hard last night but still looks uncomfortable deployed where he is. He is our best at playing in those tighter spaces with his touch, quick feet and mind. I’d put him behind Kane with Palmer on the right and either Saka or Gordon on the left.
Somebody has got to roust the back four to not dawdle as much on the ball as well, they set the tone in the first half. Even if passing amongst themselves they’ve got to do it quicker and with more purpose.
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Post by jimianto on Jun 26, 2024 10:13:51 GMT
Hate being too harsh on Southgate as I think in general he's done a good job with England, but it's pretty obvious that he's ran out of ideas to tactically operate at this level and when you look some some of the managers the players play for at club level then it must be vastly different for them to work with. Southgate is a perfect U21 manager as his strengths are creating a good culture and environment, but now that he's got a squad packed with options he's floundering and looks out of his depth at senior level. The left side killed us last night, having 2 right sides players occupying those positions. It just meant we were always having to cut inside - perhaps harsh on Foden who was trying his best to make things happen, but again he had to cut inside and eventually it becomes easy to mark. Kane still isn't fully firing, wasteful at times and not holding the ball up that well. Bellingham was awful - I'm a big fan of him but he was either too casual or trying too hard, showing a lot of signs of a young player in need of a physical and mental break, but Southgate won't have the balls to drop him. Mainoo looked like an upgrade on Gallagher, so I'd hope to see him from the start next time. I like Saka, but I'd rather see Foden playing in his position and then a natural left footer in Gordon on the other side, that should see us look a lot more balanced. Pretty fair assessment. Actually I was thinking Eze might be the loose cannon we needed last night. Problem is, when he came on against Iceland he kept running into pockets and lost the ball. Southgate wouldn't have wanted to play him again after that. Maybe used as a late substitute he could be an option to change a game. Most teams need someone to run at the opposition and upset their man to man marking systems. If they double up there should be space elsewhere. Should have been Jack Grealish. If ever a game was made for his strengths, this was it. Stupid decision not to take him.
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Post by jimianto on Jun 26, 2024 10:22:51 GMT
Bellingham is becoming an issue, he looks tired but also he doesn’t look like a 10 either, especially one forced to play in tight spaces against teams sitting back, his best work so far apart from the goal against Serbia has ben his defensive duties, so I get the calls to drop him back. Foden despite doing next to nothing in an England shirt generally feels like one of the few to have got a bit better with each game. He tried hard last night but still looks uncomfortable deployed where he is. He is our best at playing in those tighter spaces with his touch, quick feet and mind. I’d put him behind Kane with Palmer on the right and either Saka or Gordon on the left. Somebody has got to roust the back four to not dawdle as much on the ball as well, they set the tone in the first half. Even if passing amongst themselves they’ve got to do it quicker and with more purpose. I would rest him and use as impact from the bench, as required - he's looked tired and sulky. For me it's either him or Foden to play for the team's best shape and the latter deserves it more. Surely Mainoo, Palmer and Gordon have to start next time. Trippier has been poor and I think TAA and Walker will be the 2 FBs, unchanged CBs, Rice & Mainoo - Gordon, Foden, Palmer & Kane up top. That would be my starting line up. But whoever we play stubborn Southgate will probably revert to the line up from the first 2 games and try and squeeze through on penalties!
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