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Post by chesterken on Jul 11, 2024 13:53:01 GMT
Boost the budget so we can get a half decent striker?? In all seriousness well done on your winnings. it's not as much as you think and I gave to boost the budget but thanks anyway It’s only a loan and will probably go back to the bookies by the weekend😉
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Post by agl on Jul 11, 2024 13:54:52 GMT
We've had worse given against us so you take it. I see Van Dyke was crying about it too. Absolutely we had some shockers against us about time something went our way and hopefully we've pu the penalty shoot out jitters to bed as well. If we play like we did in 1st half on Sunday there is no reason why we can't win this, roll on Sunday Loving hearing Koeman whining about VAR. This from the man who should have been sent off for a professional foul on the last man that effectively cost poor old Graham Taylor qualification and his job. What goes around comes around. Do I like that.
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tooth
Full Member
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Post by tooth on Jul 14, 2024 21:35:22 GMT
Bottled it again England too negative but best team won it
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Post by Harry Lime on Jul 14, 2024 21:47:48 GMT
It's rare that the best team to watch actually wins the tournament. It tends to be the organised dull sides, with a class player or two, that wins them.
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Post by Curva Nord on Jul 14, 2024 21:56:41 GMT
Kane should have been dropped for Toney from the start of the game
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tooth
Full Member
Posts: 232
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Post by tooth on Jul 14, 2024 21:58:41 GMT
Kane should have been dropped for Toney from the start of the game Watkins for kane Palmer for foden
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Post by vandycandy on Jul 14, 2024 22:33:44 GMT
Kane should have been dropped for Toney from the start of the game Watkins for kane Palmer for foden Agreed think both have been woeful all tournament. Foden especially. Is that Southgate gone now then?
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tooth
Full Member
Posts: 232
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Post by tooth on Jul 14, 2024 22:56:27 GMT
Watkins for kane Palmer for foden Agreed think both have been woeful all tournament. Foden especially. Is that Southgate gone now then? yes and I think kane and walker might be joining him hopefully rice too
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Post by noddy on Jul 14, 2024 23:57:10 GMT
Probably the only selection he’s made that could be classed as being questionable. Can’t really describe that as being Mr Safe. Was basing it more on the big games, and big moments in those games. A braver manager may have won a couple of tournaments. I don't deny he's the most successful manager since 1966, but he's had glorious opportunities previously and fine margins and braver decisions win you those games. Congratulations to Spain, best team in the tournament and well deserved winners, The above just about sums up my thoughts though tonight. One side trying to win games and being positive, Spain in extra time against Germany and tonight after we equalised. 3 opportunities to win a major tournament and the above sums up basically why we are 3 and 0. Gutted tonight, but more angry and frustrated.
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Post by bing on Jul 15, 2024 8:18:34 GMT
Southgate is an expert at progressing in tournaments, but without giving the players the freedom to dominate a tournament.
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Post by theshed1 on Jul 15, 2024 8:25:53 GMT
Well done to Spain clearly deserved to win it 2-1 flattered us had it not been for Pickford it could easily have been 4 or 5. Hopefully the next manager will play with some flare and imagination
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Post by Neil Hunt Nonsense Potter on Jul 15, 2024 8:55:05 GMT
Gutted. Get me on that plane Friday.
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Post by yoshimitsu on Jul 15, 2024 9:03:18 GMT
40 odd years of following England has numbed me to the pain somewhat. It was great we got to the final again. That in itself is a major achievement. Yeah we lost but let’s see what happens next time.
Assuming Southgate goes, whoever comes in has got a hell of a job to do to follow up how far he took us.
Getting to finals is what it’s all about. I didn’t really care how we play to get to that stage. I’ve seen enough heroic failures that I’m now not satisfied with a good playing team going out early (or not even qualifying).
🇮🇲 here we come!
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Post by agl on Jul 15, 2024 9:08:05 GMT
Southgate inherited an absolute shambles, after Hodgson and Allardyce. He deserves immense credit for turning England into a team that makes semi finals and finals. He's also unified squads which were previously riven by club rivalries and removed the siege mentality. I think he's an excellent man manager but ultimately held back by his cautious approach to pretty much every situation. Most of the positive moves he made were enforced and the football, overall, was not good. Occasional flashes of brilliance but rarely fluent. Penalties and shots from outside the box got us out of jail. Generally, Southgates record against the top teams is poor. Inevitable that Southgate will go, as I don't think there's much appetite among fans for another tournament like that. Seems weird to be saying that after back to back finals but someone a bit more progressive is needed to get more from some very talented young players and build on the foundations laid by Southgate.
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Post by devadiva on Jul 15, 2024 9:28:10 GMT
Klopp next? Bit more creative/ambitious but as able as Southgate when it comes to man management/player loyalty? I think he’d really suit our current squad.
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Post by Si on Jul 15, 2024 9:46:01 GMT
Southgate inherited an absolute shambles, after Hodgson and Allardyce. He deserves immense credit for turning England into a team that makes semi finals and finals. He's also unified squads which were previously riven by club rivalries and removed the siege mentality. I think he's an excellent man manager but ultimately held back by his cautious approach to pretty much every situation. Most of the positive moves he made were enforced and the football, overall, was not good. Occasional flashes of brilliance but rarely fluent. Penalties and shots from outside the box got us out of jail. Generally, Southgates record against the top teams is poor. Inevitable that Southgate will go, as I don't think there's much appetite among fans for another tournament like that. Seems weird to be saying that after back to back finals but someone a bit more progressive is needed to get more from some very talented young players and build on the foundations laid by Southgate. Agree with a lot of that. I don't think you need to be some sort of Pep/Klopp tactical genius type to be a good manager at international level - it's a very different ask to club football who have the luxury of time to work on systems. Southgate did a great job in changing the culture and whether you agree with his tactics or not, he's got us consistently deep in tournaments rather than the same old glorious failures. He did seem to approach this tournament in a very un-Southgate way though.....some bold choices in squad selection, changing formation mid tournament. Ultimately I think he should be picking a system he's comfortable with coaching and then pick the players to play it - he's got an embarrassment of riches and seemed to just want to shoehorn them all in somehow. It was all a bit late in the day to take this kind of approach - no other teams are changing things around like he's done just before and during a tournament, and it just stinks of a man who can't decide his best 11 or the best formation. He messed about with TAA in centre mid for the first couple of games, despite him only really playing their once for England in a recently friendly....don't experiment during a tournament! Not sure where we go in terms of a manager from here. Needs to be someone likeable for fans and players, someone who has an identity about how they want to set a team up, and someone with better in game management. If we need that person to be English, then I'm struggling to think who fits the bill. Seen a lot of suggestions about Lampard - sure that would be popular with the players but not convinced he's anywhere close to being ready for that kind of job given how his last 2 jobs worked out. Southgate didn't exactly smash it in club management, but he did have a decent track record in the U21's and was the best man to create that pathway at the time. In terms of players, I wonder if we'll see any international retirements. Kane has looked leggy all tournament and wonder if his body can't cope with combining club and international football anymore. He's been a great player for England, but it's starting to feel like a Ronaldo situation where we're picking a player that is not what he once was and there's better options to suit the team that should be playing ahead of him. He's also a specialist in failure, he's gone to Bayern who normally win everything and they suddenly win nothing, and how many finals has he lost now?! Walker may be another that chooses to hang up the international boots to prolong his club career.
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Post by bing on Jul 15, 2024 9:46:52 GMT
Klopp next? Bit more creative/ambitious but as able as Southgate when it comes to man management/player loyalty? I think he’d really suit our current squad. Understatement of the year! Klopp's having a rest from football.
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Post by devadiva on Jul 15, 2024 9:50:05 GMT
Klopp next? Bit more creative/ambitious but as able as Southgate when it comes to man management/player loyalty? I think he’d really suit our current squad. Understatement of the year! Klopp's having a rest from football. Haha - was being polite (despite his flaws I have a massive respect for Southgate and what he’s done for England both as player and manager). Maybe the pseudo part time nature of the job would appeal to Klopp? One can only hope!!
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Post by sealandender1 on Jul 15, 2024 10:15:20 GMT
Understatement of the year! Klopp's having a rest from football. Haha - was being polite (despite his flaws I have a massive respect for Southgate and what he’s done for England both as player and manager). Maybe the pseudo part time nature of the job would appeal to Klopp? One can only hope!! 🤓 It’ll be Graham Potter as he will conform to FA rules and not rock any boats!!!
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Post by yoshimitsu on Jul 15, 2024 10:20:18 GMT
Southgate inherited an absolute shambles, after Hodgson and Allardyce. He deserves immense credit for turning England into a team that makes semi finals and finals. He's also unified squads which were previously riven by club rivalries and removed the siege mentality. I think he's an excellent man manager but ultimately held back by his cautious approach to pretty much every situation. Most of the positive moves he made were enforced and the football, overall, was not good. Occasional flashes of brilliance but rarely fluent. Penalties and shots from outside the box got us out of jail. Generally, Southgates record against the top teams is poor. Inevitable that Southgate will go, as I don't think there's much appetite among fans for another tournament like that. Seems weird to be saying that after back to back finals but someone a bit more progressive is needed to get more from some very talented young players and build on the foundations laid by Southgate. Agree with a lot of that. I don't think you need to be some sort of Pep/Klopp tactical genius type to be a good manager at international level - it's a very different ask to club football who have the luxury of time to work on systems. Southgate did a great job in changing the culture and whether you agree with his tactics or not, he's got us consistently deep in tournaments rather than the same old glorious failures. He did seem to approach this tournament in a very un-Southgate way though.....some bold choices in squad selection, changing formation mid tournament. Ultimately I think he should be picking a system he's comfortable with coaching and then pick the players to play it - he's got an embarrassment of riches and seemed to just want to shoehorn them all in somehow. It was all a bit late in the day to take this kind of approach - no other teams are changing things around like he's done just before and during a tournament, and it just stinks of a man who can't decide his best 11 or the best formation. He messed about with TAA in centre mid for the first couple of games, despite him only really playing their once for England in a recently friendly....don't experiment during a tournament! Not sure where we go in terms of a manager from here. Needs to be someone likeable for fans and players, someone who has an identity about how they want to set a team up, and someone with better in game management. If we need that person to be English, then I'm struggling to think who fits the bill. Seen a lot of suggestions about Lampard - sure that would be popular with the players but not convinced he's anywhere close to being ready for that kind of job given how his last 2 jobs worked out. Southgate didn't exactly smash it in club management, but he did have a decent track record in the U21's and was the best man to create that pathway at the time. In terms of players, I wonder if we'll see any international retirements. Kane has looked leggy all tournament and wonder if his body can't cope with combining club and international football anymore. He's been a great player for England, but it's starting to feel like a Ronaldo situation where we're picking a player that is not what he once was and there's better options to suit the team that should be playing ahead of him. He's also a specialist in failure, he's gone to Bayern who normally win everything and they suddenly win nothing, and how many finals has he lost now?! Walker may be another that chooses to hang up the international boots to prolong his club career. Weirdly, I wonder whether Lampard (who I think is not a very good club manager) would actually do well as an International manager? It seems that building a sense of a team with everyone pulling in the same direction is at least half the battle for an international manager and I think Lampard would be good at that. I just hope he would pick players who are fit, and meet the needs of the team rather than picking just the ‘best’ players.
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Post by utb on Jul 15, 2024 10:47:06 GMT
I don't think there's a single English manager out there who would gain universal approval. Potter, Howe, Lampard, all brutally mediocre and I don't think would serve as improvements on what we have.
The best available candidate should be picked and that means going abroad. Thomas Tuchel would be my realistic choice. Klopp wouldn't take it, neither would Ancelotti.
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tooth
Full Member
Posts: 232
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Post by tooth on Jul 15, 2024 11:06:13 GMT
Klopp next? Bit more creative/ambitious but as able as Southgate when it comes to man management/player loyalty? I think he’d really suit our current squad. would he want it though
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Post by welshrover on Jul 15, 2024 11:22:33 GMT
Haha - was being polite (despite his flaws I have a massive respect for Southgate and what he’s done for England both as player and manager). Maybe the pseudo part time nature of the job would appeal to Klopp? One can only hope!! 🤓 It’ll be Graham Potter as he will conform to FA rules and not rock any boats!!! Could be his brother Harry!
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paddyseal
New Member
an open road, the honda 50 - heaven
Posts: 17
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Post by paddyseal on Jul 15, 2024 11:37:30 GMT
unlucky lads, being an adopted Englander i really felt for you last night I wouldnt be too hasty getting rid of Southgate, he improved as a manager in this tournament and there' not a lot of options out there. Here's my run down of options. 1. Portugeese Bob -speaks the language, knows the premier league, experience of international football 2. Lampard -- bags of international playing experience 3. Eddie Howe - probably has a season at most left at the toon, go and get him now 4. Potter - experience of coaching abroad, can he handle top players though? 5 Neil 'Youngy' Young - worked wonders with limited resources, always thought he could easily make the step up to the top level give the chance
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Post by nytram on Jul 15, 2024 13:11:08 GMT
Maybe Southgate without Kane and some of the 7 players who lost to Italy 3 years ago could become a better team. Whenever subs were made we became a great side. He relied too much on Kane. Will be a huge interview with Southgate and the FA.
Spain centre forward Morata was not liked by a lot of Spanish but was also captain but he stayed up front. Then replaced and his replacement scored.
Game of fine margins but 30 odd percent possession isn't great. Think Southgate was trying to be an Italy when they were boring and won 1-0 but they had 60-70 per cent possession.
Is all that is needed is a change in backroom staff to give emphasis on attacking football with Southgate as the great man manager.
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Post by vandycandy on Jul 15, 2024 14:04:41 GMT
For those of you who have an interest in the disparity between rival channels. I see ITV had 6.4 million viewers whilst BBC had 17.9 million. Apparently the best viewing figures for a sporting event for ITV since records began when both channels have broadcast the same match.
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Post by The Angry Agenda on Jul 15, 2024 14:29:26 GMT
Maybe Southgate without Kane and some of the 7 players who lost to Italy 3 years ago could become a better team. Whenever subs were made we became a great side. He relied too much on Kane. Will be a huge interview with Southgate and the FA. Spain centre forward Morata was not liked by a lot of Spanish but was also captain but he stayed up front. Then replaced and his replacement scored. Game of fine margins but 30 odd percent possession isn't great. Think Southgate was trying to be an Italy when they were boring and won 1-0 but they had 60-70 per cent possession. Is all that is needed is a change in backroom staff to give emphasis on attacking football with Southgate as the great man manager. i actually feel a bit sorry for Kane and the criticism he's getting. Yes he's had a poor tournament by his standards but Southgate hasn't helped with the tactics he's played, which resulted in the lack of service Kane's actually had in and around the box. You can see it's clearly not worked the way Southgate wanted yet he has still started him every game. Morata scored just one goal in a Spain side that were the best attacking team in the tournament by a country mile - Had Harry Kane been spanish and played in Morata's position he'd have probably scored 5-6 goals in open play given the balls into the box and chances spain have created in this tournament.
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Post by Curva Nord on Jul 15, 2024 14:46:47 GMT
Every time Kane came off, England playe dbetter
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Post by welshrover on Jul 15, 2024 15:05:06 GMT
From a neutral perspective were England's tactics dictated by Southgate or the opposing teams.
I must admit I haven't watched all the games but on the evidence of the two I have watched in both games the opposition midfield appeared to dictate just how far England could advance up the field therefore nullifying England's wing play and crosses into the box for a player like Kane to feed off.
So perhaps the midfield needs closer scrutiny?
Certainly the boy Fabian (spelling) last night and Reinders (spelling) of Holland seemed largely untroubled when they had the ball with time to look up and pick a pass.
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Post by agl on Jul 15, 2024 16:43:20 GMT
Quick question...does anyone think any of the England players would make the Team of the Tournament? Imo the only ones that would be anywhere near would be Stones, Saka and Pickford.
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