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Post by noddy on Jul 15, 2024 17:15:37 GMT
Quick question...does anyone think any of the England players would make the Team of the Tournament? Imo the only ones that would be anywhere near would be Stones, Saka and Pickford. No, in a word.
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tooth
Full Member
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Post by tooth on Jul 15, 2024 19:25:51 GMT
Quick question...does anyone think any of the England players would make the Team of the Tournament? Imo the only ones that would be anywhere near would be Stones, Saka and Pickford. saka over Williams and yemal I thought it was summer not April fools day one goal that's it give you Pickford but guehi for stones
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Post by vandycandy on Jul 15, 2024 20:34:12 GMT
Quick question...does anyone think any of the England players would make the Team of the Tournament? Imo the only ones that would be anywhere near would be Stones, Saka and Pickford. Harry Kane & Phil Foden for sure.
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Post by Lobster on Jul 16, 2024 5:08:23 GMT
I don't think there's a single English manager out there who would gain universal approval. Potter, Howe, Lampard, all brutally mediocre and I don't think would serve as improvements on what we have. The best available candidate should be picked and that means going abroad. Thomas Tuchel would be my realistic choice. Klopp wouldn't take it, neither would Ancelotti. Bit harsh to include Potter and Howe in with Lampard I think. The former two have done well with small clubs. Potter is damaged goods after Chelsea though, awful career move, that. Howe needs a better season with Newcastle. Lampard for me hasn't shown any evidence that he's a manager, although I don't disagree with the sentiment that he might actually be a decent fit for England manager with international football being so different.
I wouldn't like to be making the decision on Southgate's future. Whatever arguments people might make that he's been lucky or is constraining these players, the undeniable fact is that England under him have become a regular final-four team, which they have simply never been before, so is it a case of not knowing what you've got until it's gone? At the same time though, it feels to me like they're not making the next step and Sunday's defeat seemed depressingly familiar, not taking risks, doing nothing until we went behind and not taking control when we were on top, and you wonder if England can ever win a tournament this way. If you watch the goals, the equaliser came from a quick break after a Spanish attack. The Spain winner came after England players tapped it about slowly in their own half and then lumped it out of play. I'm not buying the "boys done us proud" stuff this time as I don't really think they did. We couldn't have complained if we had gone out to Slovakia or Switzerland, but having ridden our luck I just hoped we would show a bit more in the final. If we're going to praise them for finding the resolve to win without playing well earlier in the tournament, I feel we also have to criticise them for not raising their game enough in the final, albeit against a very good Spanish team.
Not sure how England solve the Kane conundrum either. We played better without him, but you can't argue with his scoring record and with that chance cleared off the line near the end, I couldn't help but think that if Kane had been on the pitch it would probably have been in.
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Post by Harry Lime on Jul 16, 2024 6:51:03 GMT
I don't think there's a single English manager out there who would gain universal approval. Potter, Howe, Lampard, all brutally mediocre and I don't think would serve as improvements on what we have. The best available candidate should be picked and that means going abroad. Thomas Tuchel would be my realistic choice. Klopp wouldn't take it, neither would Ancelotti. Bit harsh to include Potter and Howe in with Lampard I think. The former two have done well with small clubs. Potter is damaged goods after Chelsea though, awful career move, that. Howe needs a better season with Newcastle. Lampard for me hasn't shown any evidence that he's a manager, although I don't disagree with the sentiment that he might actually be a decent fit for England manager with international football being so different.
I wouldn't like to be making the decision on Southgate's future. Whatever arguments people might make that he's been lucky or is constraining these players, the undeniable fact is that England under him have become a regular final-four team, which they have simply never been before, so is it a case of not knowing what you've got until it's gone? At the same time though, it feels to me like they're not making the next step and Sunday's defeat seemed depressingly familiar, not taking risks, doing nothing until we went behind and not taking control when we were on top, and you wonder if England can ever win a tournament this way. If you watch the goals, the equaliser came from a quick break after a Spanish attack. The Spain winner came after England players tapped it about slowly in their own half and then lumped it out of play. I'm not buying the "boys done us proud" stuff this time as I don't really think they did. We couldn't have complained if we had gone out to Slovakia or Switzerland, but having ridden our luck I just hoped we would show a bit more in the final. If we're going to praise them for finding the resolve to win without playing well earlier in the tournament, I feel we also have to criticise them for not raising their game enough in the final, albeit against a very good Spanish team.
Not sure how England solve the Kane conundrum either. We played better without him, but you can't argue with his scoring record and with that chance cleared off the line near the end, I couldn't help but think that if Kane had been on the pitch it would probably have been in.
Kane has looked best when he has direct runners going past him into the space he leaves. Think Son at Tottenham, or Rashford and Sterling for England. Saka, Foden, Palmer and Bellingham aren't that kind of player. Gordon and maybe Bowen are. The conundrum is whether you try and fit your best players into the team, or find the best team. Agree that Lampard wouldn't be a great choice. Apart from his apparent managerial limitations he was part of the non inclusive nature of previous squads. There were interviews with a couple of ex England internationals who said that when they first turned up at an England camp, they walked into the main room and Gerrard, Lampard and Beckham looked up and ignored them for the whole 3 day camp. Gerrard was captain at the time. Might explain why it never seemed to gel.
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Post by jimianto on Jul 16, 2024 7:48:20 GMT
Bit harsh to include Potter and Howe in with Lampard I think. The former two have done well with small clubs. Potter is damaged goods after Chelsea though, awful career move, that. Howe needs a better season with Newcastle. Lampard for me hasn't shown any evidence that he's a manager, although I don't disagree with the sentiment that he might actually be a decent fit for England manager with international football being so different.
I wouldn't like to be making the decision on Southgate's future. Whatever arguments people might make that he's been lucky or is constraining these players, the undeniable fact is that England under him have become a regular final-four team, which they have simply never been before, so is it a case of not knowing what you've got until it's gone? At the same time though, it feels to me like they're not making the next step and Sunday's defeat seemed depressingly familiar, not taking risks, doing nothing until we went behind and not taking control when we were on top, and you wonder if England can ever win a tournament this way. If you watch the goals, the equaliser came from a quick break after a Spanish attack. The Spain winner came after England players tapped it about slowly in their own half and then lumped it out of play. I'm not buying the "boys done us proud" stuff this time as I don't really think they did. We couldn't have complained if we had gone out to Slovakia or Switzerland, but having ridden our luck I just hoped we would show a bit more in the final. If we're going to praise them for finding the resolve to win without playing well earlier in the tournament, I feel we also have to criticise them for not raising their game enough in the final, albeit against a very good Spanish team.
Not sure how England solve the Kane conundrum either. We played better without him, but you can't argue with his scoring record and with that chance cleared off the line near the end, I couldn't help but think that if Kane had been on the pitch it would probably have been in.
Kane has looked best when he has direct runners going past him into the space he leaves. Think Son at Tottenham, or Rashford and Sterling for England. Saka, Foden, Palmer and Bellingham aren't that kind of player. Gordon and maybe Bowen are. The conundrum is whether you try and fit your best players into the team, or find the best team. Agree that Lampard wouldn't be a great choice. Apart from his apparent managerial limitations he was part of the non inclusive nature of previous squads. There were interviews with a couple of ex England internationals who said that when they first turned up at an England camp, they walked into the main room and Gerrard, Lampard and Beckham looked up and ignored them for the whole 3 day camp. Gerrard was captain at the time. Might explain why it never seemed to gel. Find the best team all day long. Then you have some real talent on the bench when required. Think Leicester City when they won the title. They didn't have the very best players in the Prem, except maybe Kante, but they were easily the best team. It's clear that the talent is their in English football and still coming through. It's up to the manager to find the right balance. Tough job. I suppose if you leave out some of the best players and you fail, then as England manager, the pelters will be hard hitting.
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Post by bing on Jul 16, 2024 8:04:10 GMT
Kane has looked best when he has direct runners going past him into the space he leaves. Think Son at Tottenham, or Rashford and Sterling for England. Saka, Foden, Palmer and Bellingham aren't that kind of player. Gordon and maybe Bowen are. The conundrum is whether you try and fit your best players into the team, or find the best team. Agree that Lampard wouldn't be a great choice. Apart from his apparent managerial limitations he was part of the non inclusive nature of previous squads. There were interviews with a couple of ex England internationals who said that when they first turned up at an England camp, they walked into the main room and Gerrard, Lampard and Beckham looked up and ignored them for the whole 3 day camp. Gerrard was captain at the time. Might explain why it never seemed to gel. Find the best team all day long. Then you have some real talent on the bench when required. Think Leicester City when they won the title. They didn't have the very best players in the Prem, except maybe Kante, but they were easily the best team. It's clear that the talent is their in English football and still coming through. It's up to the manager to find the right balance. Tough job. I suppose if you leave out some of the best players and you fail, then as England manager, the pelters will be hard hitting. Play players in their best positions Play players only if fully fit Go into a tournament with a clear formation Southgate didn't do any of these.
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Post by agl on Jul 16, 2024 8:44:17 GMT
I don't think there's a single English manager out there who would gain universal approval. Potter, Howe, Lampard, all brutally mediocre and I don't think would serve as improvements on what we have. The best available candidate should be picked and that means going abroad. Thomas Tuchel would be my realistic choice. Klopp wouldn't take it, neither would Ancelotti. Bit harsh to include Potter and Howe in with Lampard I think. The former two have done well with small clubs. Potter is damaged goods after Chelsea though, awful career move, that. Howe needs a better season with Newcastle. Lampard for me hasn't shown any evidence that he's a manager, although I don't disagree with the sentiment that he might actually be a decent fit for England manager with international football being so different.
I wouldn't like to be making the decision on Southgate's future. Whatever arguments people might make that he's been lucky or is constraining these players, the undeniable fact is that England under him have become a regular final-four team, which they have simply never been before, so is it a case of not knowing what you've got until it's gone? At the same time though, it feels to me like they're not making the next step and Sunday's defeat seemed depressingly familiar, not taking risks, doing nothing until we went behind and not taking control when we were on top, and you wonder if England can ever win a tournament this way. If you watch the goals, the equaliser came from a quick break after a Spanish attack. The Spain winner came after England players tapped it about slowly in their own half and then lumped it out of play. I'm not buying the "boys done us proud" stuff this time as I don't really think they did. We couldn't have complained if we had gone out to Slovakia or Switzerland, but having ridden our luck I just hoped we would show a bit more in the final. If we're going to praise them for finding the resolve to win without playing well earlier in the tournament, I feel we also have to criticise them for not raising their game enough in the final, albeit against a very good Spanish team.
Not sure how England solve the Kane conundrum either. We played better without him, but you can't argue with his scoring record and with that chance cleared off the line near the end, I couldn't help but think that if Kane had been on the pitch it would probably have been in.
You can guarantee that whatever happens the FA will fuck it up
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Post by Eddie Gray's left foot on Jul 16, 2024 9:10:24 GMT
Agreed think both have been woeful all tournament. Foden especially. Is that Southgate gone now then? yes and I think kane and walker might be joining him hopefully rice too Agree about Kane and Rice, but someone said Walker is the best RB in the world. I wouldn't argue with that.
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Post by Eddie Gray's left foot on Jul 16, 2024 9:15:30 GMT
Find the best team all day long. Then you have some real talent on the bench when required. Think Leicester City when they won the title. They didn't have the very best players in the Prem, except maybe Kante, but they were easily the best team. It's clear that the talent is their in English football and still coming through. It's up to the manager to find the right balance. Tough job. I suppose if you leave out some of the best players and you fail, then as England manager, the pelters will be hard hitting. Play players in their best positions Play players only if fully fit Go into a tournament with a clear formation Southgate didn't do any of these. Spot on ~~ still experimenting in the Tournament proper.
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Post by Captain Duff on Jul 16, 2024 9:16:15 GMT
My outside two picks:
1) Spanish Bob - leader, cohesive team builder, one of our own...
2) Sarina Wiegman - Impeccable track record, unflappable, builds strong team unity around natural leaders, always looking for the next challenge, revolutionary choice to get the blazer duffers spluttering.
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Post by Eddie Gray's left foot on Jul 16, 2024 9:16:39 GMT
Bit harsh to include Potter and Howe in with Lampard I think. The former two have done well with small clubs. Potter is damaged goods after Chelsea though, awful career move, that. Howe needs a better season with Newcastle. Lampard for me hasn't shown any evidence that he's a manager, although I don't disagree with the sentiment that he might actually be a decent fit for England manager with international football being so different.
I wouldn't like to be making the decision on Southgate's future. Whatever arguments people might make that he's been lucky or is constraining these players, the undeniable fact is that England under him have become a regular final-four team, which they have simply never been before, so is it a case of not knowing what you've got until it's gone? At the same time though, it feels to me like they're not making the next step and Sunday's defeat seemed depressingly familiar, not taking risks, doing nothing until we went behind and not taking control when we were on top, and you wonder if England can ever win a tournament this way. If you watch the goals, the equaliser came from a quick break after a Spanish attack. The Spain winner came after England players tapped it about slowly in their own half and then lumped it out of play. I'm not buying the "boys done us proud" stuff this time as I don't really think they did. We couldn't have complained if we had gone out to Slovakia or Switzerland, but having ridden our luck I just hoped we would show a bit more in the final. If we're going to praise them for finding the resolve to win without playing well earlier in the tournament, I feel we also have to criticise them for not raising their game enough in the final, albeit against a very good Spanish team.
Not sure how England solve the Kane conundrum either. We played better without him, but you can't argue with his scoring record and with that chance cleared off the line near the end, I couldn't help but think that if Kane had been on the pitch it would probably have been in.
You can guarantee that whatever happens the FA will fuck it up Absolutely ~~ the suits ARE the problem.
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Post by Blockhead on Jul 16, 2024 9:42:44 GMT
I don't think there's a single English manager out there who would gain universal approval. Potter, Howe, Lampard, all brutally mediocre and I don't think would serve as improvements on what we have. The best available candidate should be picked and that means going abroad. Thomas Tuchel would be my realistic choice. Klopp wouldn't take it, neither would Ancelotti. Bit harsh to include Potter and Howe in with Lampard I think. The former two have done well with small clubs. Potter is damaged goods after Chelsea though, awful career move, that. Howe needs a better season with Newcastle. Lampard for me hasn't shown any evidence that he's a manager, although I don't disagree with the sentiment that he might actually be a decent fit for England manager with international football being so different.
I wouldn't like to be making the decision on Southgate's future. Whatever arguments people might make that he's been lucky or is constraining these players, the undeniable fact is that England under him have become a regular final-four team, which they have simply never been before, so is it a case of not knowing what you've got until it's gone? At the same time though, it feels to me like they're not making the next step and Sunday's defeat seemed depressingly familiar, not taking risks, doing nothing until we went behind and not taking control when we were on top, and you wonder if England can ever win a tournament this way. If you watch the goals, the equaliser came from a quick break after a Spanish attack. The Spain winner came after England players tapped it about slowly in their own half and then lumped it out of play. I'm not buying the "boys done us proud" stuff this time as I don't really think they did. We couldn't have complained if we had gone out to Slovakia or Switzerland, but having ridden our luck I just hoped we would show a bit more in the final. If we're going to praise them for finding the resolve to win without playing well earlier in the tournament, I feel we also have to criticise them for not raising their game enough in the final, albeit against a very good Spanish team.
Not sure how England solve the Kane conundrum either. We played better without him, but you can't argue with his scoring record and with that chance cleared off the line near the end, I couldn't help but think that if Kane had been on the pitch it would probably have been in.
What has Eddie Howe ever achieved when not managing a club owned by billionaires? He had a stinker at Burnley.
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Post by noddy on Jul 16, 2024 10:11:54 GMT
Now resigned thankfully.
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Post by vandycandy on Jul 16, 2024 10:31:39 GMT
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Post by agl on Jul 16, 2024 10:33:38 GMT
It's the right decision. Done a very good job, getting us consistently deep in tournaments and maintaining a high world ranking. I'm sure he'd be the first to admit he's just fallen short in big games against top teams. His win record is up there with the best but in international football that's meaningless - need to judge on matches against the top 10 and that's where he didn't quite cut it. The home final against a poor Italy side was the real missed opportunity. Got to wonder who will take the impossible job. Only winning the World Cup will be judged as success. Suspect Southgate will now manage somewhere abroad, where he will get more respect than in his own country.
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Post by yoshimitsu on Jul 16, 2024 10:33:48 GMT
Thankfully? That’s somewhat harsh. He built us up from a laughing stock and has outperformed every other England manager ever (excepting Sir Alf). A lot of people thinking that all we need to do to win a tournament now is change to a more adventurous manager (I have a lot of sympathy for this view), but whoever comes in will have a hell of a job to even match Southgate’s achievements.
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Post by agl on Jul 16, 2024 10:36:07 GMT
Thankfully? That’s somewhat harsh. He built us up from a laughing stock and has outperformed every other England manager ever (excepting Sir Alf). A lot of people thinking that all we need to do to win a tournament now is change to a more adventurous manager (I have a lot of sympathy for this view), but whoever comes in will have a hell of a job to even match Southgate’s achievements. Spot on. Someone described our fan base as toxic😆. Imagine if England fail to qualify for the World Cup.
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Post by noddy on Jul 16, 2024 10:55:46 GMT
Thankfully? That’s somewhat harsh. He built us up from a laughing stock and has outperformed every other England manager ever (excepting Sir Alf). A lot of people thinking that all we need to do to win a tournament now is change to a more adventurous manager (I have a lot of sympathy for this view), but whoever comes in will have a hell of a job to even match Southgate’s achievements. Maybe it is harsh. Just my personal opinion though and only time will tell if a new manager with new ideas with the emphasis on trying to win the big games rather than not lose them can take us that one step further.
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Post by yoshimitsu on Jul 16, 2024 11:00:15 GMT
Thankfully? That’s somewhat harsh. He built us up from a laughing stock and has outperformed every other England manager ever (excepting Sir Alf). A lot of people thinking that all we need to do to win a tournament now is change to a more adventurous manager (I have a lot of sympathy for this view), but whoever comes in will have a hell of a job to even match Southgate’s achievements. Maybe it is harsh. Just my personal opinion though and only time will tell if a new manager with new ideas with the emphasis on trying to win the big games rather than not lose them can take us that one step further. Let’s hope so! It’s easy to forget that the three previous euros before Southgate we failed to qualify for one, knocked out by Iceland in the other, and out on penalties for the third. All with very talented teams. These last few tournaments have been great for England fans. I hope we can at least follow them up with some more.
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Post by noddy on Jul 16, 2024 11:09:05 GMT
Maybe it is harsh. Just my personal opinion though and only time will tell if a new manager with new ideas with the emphasis on trying to win the big games rather than not lose them can take us that one step further. Let’s hope so! It’s easy to forget that the three previous euros before Southgate we failed to qualify for one, knocked out by Iceland in the other, and out on penalties for the third. All with very talented teams. These last few tournaments have been great for England fans. I hope we can at least follow them up with some more. Agree they have been great for us to progress so far in tournaments but a big part of me can't get passed that there have been huge opportunities missed to win the last 2 Euro's and to have made a world cup final.
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Post by bing on Jul 16, 2024 11:17:37 GMT
Let’s hope so! It’s easy to forget that the three previous euros before Southgate we failed to qualify for one, knocked out by Iceland in the other, and out on penalties for the third. All with very talented teams. These last few tournaments have been great for England fans. I hope we can at least follow them up with some more. Agree they have been great for us to progress so far in tournaments but a big part of me can't get passed that they have been huge opportunities missed to win the last 2 Euro's and to have made a world cup final. I agree. We need to lose this mentality of "doing well in tournaments" and actually go on to win something. The road to the latter stages in the last few tournaments has been incredibly kind to us. We won't always be so lucky, so need to find ways of beating the Spains of this world.
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tooth
Full Member
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Post by tooth on Jul 16, 2024 11:22:20 GMT
My outside two picks: 1) Spanish Bob - leader, cohesive team builder, one of our own... 2) Sarina Wiegman - Impeccable track record, unflappable, builds strong team unity around natural leaders, always looking for the next challenge, revolutionary choice to get the blazer duffers spluttering. 1 could only get a very good belguim team to the last 16 not for wiegman not a bad shout
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tooth
Full Member
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Post by tooth on Jul 16, 2024 11:24:03 GMT
Bit harsh to include Potter and Howe in with Lampard I think. The former two have done well with small clubs. Potter is damaged goods after Chelsea though, awful career move, that. Howe needs a better season with Newcastle. Lampard for me hasn't shown any evidence that he's a manager, although I don't disagree with the sentiment that he might actually be a decent fit for England manager with international football being so different.
I wouldn't like to be making the decision on Southgate's future. Whatever arguments people might make that he's been lucky or is constraining these players, the undeniable fact is that England under him have become a regular final-four team, which they have simply never been before, so is it a case of not knowing what you've got until it's gone? At the same time though, it feels to me like they're not making the next step and Sunday's defeat seemed depressingly familiar, not taking risks, doing nothing until we went behind and not taking control when we were on top, and you wonder if England can ever win a tournament this way. If you watch the goals, the equaliser came from a quick break after a Spanish attack. The Spain winner came after England players tapped it about slowly in their own half and then lumped it out of play. I'm not buying the "boys done us proud" stuff this time as I don't really think they did. We couldn't have complained if we had gone out to Slovakia or Switzerland, but having ridden our luck I just hoped we would show a bit more in the final. If we're going to praise them for finding the resolve to win without playing well earlier in the tournament, I feel we also have to criticise them for not raising their game enough in the final, albeit against a very good Spanish team.
Not sure how England solve the Kane conundrum either. We played better without him, but you can't argue with his scoring record and with that chance cleared off the line near the end, I couldn't help but think that if Kane had been on the pitch it would probably have been in.
What has Eddie Howe ever achieved when not managing a club owned by billionaires? He had a stinker at Burnley. spot on about eddie howe did well at Bournemouth and I dont think hes popular at newcastle not for me im afraid
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tooth
Full Member
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Post by tooth on Jul 16, 2024 11:25:21 GMT
[br im not his biggest fan but thats harsh
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tooth
Full Member
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Post by tooth on Jul 16, 2024 11:26:18 GMT
For what it's worth England should break the bank and got poch in
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Post by vandycandy on Jul 16, 2024 11:28:07 GMT
Hearing all sorts of names being thrown about, Lampard, Howe, Tuchel, Klopp, Pochettino. I'd be astounded if the FA appoint anyone other than Graham Potter.
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Post by welshrover on Jul 16, 2024 11:30:09 GMT
Callum?
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Post by yoshimitsu on Jul 16, 2024 11:32:04 GMT
It wouldn’t surprise me if they promote from within again. Who’s the current u21 boss?
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Post by martyntrumpcaster on Jul 16, 2024 11:45:12 GMT
Whoever takes the job on is probably likely to disappoint. Only one prize that counts every two years and if England don't win it we're all disappointed. Who'd want a job like that.
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