tooth
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Posts: 232
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Post by tooth on Jun 21, 2024 11:47:30 GMT
Another thing I don't think Southgate knows how to adapt to difficult situations and unlike every other great coaches doesn't have a plan b when things go wrong im afraid.U always need a plan b or c
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Post by Eddie Gray's left foot on Jun 21, 2024 12:20:58 GMT
That was back to the dark ages. Rice was unbelievably bad, against a middle ranking team. Not sure where England go from here. Can't think of a single player who emerges with any credit. Walker was also very poor. We must have been even worse than I thought then. Thought Walker was the only one who supplied any width and pace at times in the game. Yes Walker and Guehi were the best of a bad bunch. Its frightening when you wonder what England might have won these last 8 years with a decent coach.
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Post by sealandender1 on Jun 21, 2024 13:22:57 GMT
🤓 Could anyone see Guardiola as the England manager when it goes completely tits up for City?
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Post by yoshimitsu on Jun 21, 2024 13:47:48 GMT
We must have been even worse than I thought then. Thought Walker was the only one who supplied any width and pace at times in the game. Yes Walker and Guehi were the best of a bad bunch. Its frightening when you wonder what England might have won these last 8 years with a decent coach. I’m at the point where I’m not sure a great, experienced manager would really make all that much of a difference. We’ve had plenty of them in the past, who have managed excellent players. And we not come any closer to winning anything (Le Tournoi excepted).
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Post by waggoner on Jun 21, 2024 14:51:20 GMT
We must have been even worse than I thought then. Thought Walker was the only one who supplied any width and pace at times in the game. Yes Walker and Guehi were the best of a bad bunch. Its frightening when you wonder what England might have won these last 8 years with a decent coach. This football lark can be over thought. The players are all selected because they have played well for the club in a certain position. So whatever position they play at home try to put them in that position for England Trippier is in my view a right back but if he had been playing left back permanently at club level there is no way he would be playing in that position for England. Foden would be better playing as a number 10 when he would be effective. Bellingham is better in a deeper role where his awareness would be better used. As a link between defence and midfield. Kane is not as good as he was and goes missing these days may be time to put someone else up there. I wonder if we could go 4-4-2 and use Gordon and saka as wingers?
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Post by agl on Jun 21, 2024 16:12:24 GMT
Agree. The phrase 'square pegs, round holes' keeps cropping up with England. For years there's been a tendency to pick the so called best players then shoe horn them into a formation. Southgate admitting that he's still experimenting in a major tournament (with TAA) is shocking. There's got to be a defender who can kick with his left foot somewhere in England...Chilwell, for a start. The gamble to bring Shaw for the latter stages is just that. These are not bad footballers but you can almost see the confidence drain out of them. Given his age and ability it makes sense to ask Bellingham where he wants to play and build around him. If that means sacrificing Foden, so be it. Southgate is a decent coach and has done well overall but he's suddenly looking lost and the players sense it. The body language when they came out after half time last night was awful. Somehow we are unbeaten and a win tops the group, so it's not all doom and gloom. But it's got to improve dramatically.
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Post by Harry Lime on Jun 21, 2024 18:23:26 GMT
Tournaments tend to be won by a pragmatic team with a couple of world class players. France aren't great to watch but have very good experienced players around the pitch. Southgate definitely prefers a defensive style and hopes Kane gets a chance. We've previously had Rashford making runs into the space Kane creates. We don't have that now. Foden just comes into everyone else's space.
I can see why he brought Gallagher and Bowen on as they gave energy to the team. Gallagher isn't great on the ball but he will chase around, close teams down and win free kicks.
The left side is an issue. Trippier is a right back, but he's also had a poor season. Certainly not as good as previous seasons. Having Foden in front of him means neither want to go wide.
Most good teams now play an aggressive press, while we just seem to drop off. Strange thing is we don't seem to be able to move the ball around outside the back four either. Funny how others have commented on the similarities with Chester, as I thought the same watching the game. No pace or energy and lacking an attacking threat. We've relied on Kane and been flattered over recent seasons.
Be interesting to see where Southgate goes next as I can't see him getting a top job in the PL. He might get a Palace or Wolves, but even then I can't see their fans being over excited about him coming.
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tooth
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Post by tooth on Jun 21, 2024 21:14:09 GMT
Don't know if I can swear on here but all wind and piss the french I think they are a one man team
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tooth
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Post by tooth on Jun 21, 2024 21:15:35 GMT
Tournaments tend to be won by a pragmatic team with a couple of world class players. France aren't great to watch but have very good experienced players around the pitch. Southgate definitely prefers a defensive style and hopes Kane gets a chance. We've previously had Rashford making runs into the space Kane creates. We don't have that now. Foden just comes into everyone else's space. I can see why he brought Gallagher and Bowen on as they gave energy to the team. Gallagher isn't great on the ball but he will chase around, close teams down and win free kicks. The left side is an issue. Trippier is a right back, but he's also had a poor season. Certainly not as good as previous seasons. Having Foden in front of him means neither want to go wide. Most good teams now play an aggressive press, while we just seem to drop off. Strange thing is we don't seem to be able to move the ball around outside the back four either. Funny how others have commented on the similarities with Chester, as I thought the same watching the game. No pace or energy and lacking an attacking threat. We've relied on Kane and been flattered over recent seasons. Be interesting to see where Southgate goes next as I can't see him getting a top job in the PL. He might get a Palace or Wolves, but even then I can't see their fans being over excited about him coming. wolves and palace have good managers so why would they want Southgate
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Post by theshed1 on Jun 21, 2024 21:44:50 GMT
Holland v France just like watching England v England
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Post by Lobster on Jun 21, 2024 21:51:56 GMT
Holland v France just like watching England v England Worst game so far from two of the most fancied teams. France got lucky, I don't think that goal should've been ruled out.
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Post by noddy on Jun 21, 2024 23:24:04 GMT
Holland v France just like watching England v England Worst game so far from two of the most fancied teams. France got lucky, I don't think that goal should've been ruled out. Thanks for confirming what I thought after a skinful in Liverpool today. No interference with the keeper at all, yes he was offside but never interfering with play.
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Post by devadiva on Jun 22, 2024 7:42:37 GMT
Can’t help thinking that if you just put out the best individual starting 11 for England and told them to wing it or go full “Kevin Keegan”, we’d be no worse off than with Handbrake in control. As others have said, the similarities with Chester last season are striking.
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Post by agl on Jun 22, 2024 10:09:24 GMT
Holland v France just like watching England v England Worst game so far from two of the most fancied teams. France got lucky, I don't think that goal should've been ruled out. As has been said France rely very heavily on Mbappe. Stats show that if he doesn't play they don't win. Spain and Germany look handy, and France will still go deep, but again it's there for the taking. Unfortunately England have the smell of a team imploding...Declan Rice now effectively saying they can't handle the weight of expectation (maybe should have stuck with Ireland) and Southgate admitting some players aren't fit enough to press properly. Hopefully this post will come back to haunt me, and I look forward to someone dredging it up when we do a Greece.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 22, 2024 13:26:14 GMT
Worst game so far from two of the most fancied teams. France got lucky, I don't think that goal should've been ruled out. Thanks for confirming what I thought after a skinful in Liverpool today. No interference with the keeper at all, yes he was offside but never interfering with play. I hate VAR but it's worked pretty well in this tournament. Then when we get an English team behind it, we get decisions that take over five minutes and they still get it wrong!
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Post by Curva Nord on Jun 22, 2024 14:23:15 GMT
Which goes to show it's the people using it not VAR itself
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Post by Harry Lime on Jun 22, 2024 14:45:58 GMT
Thanks for confirming what I thought after a skinful in Liverpool today. No interference with the keeper at all, yes he was offside but never interfering with play. I hate VAR but it's worked pretty well in this tournament. Then when we get an English team behind it, we get decisions that take over five minutes and they still get it wrong! Stuart Atwell gives VAR a bad name. You're spot on with your observation. Mike Riley decided how it should be used and got it wrong. He was just looking after his team of referees.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 22, 2024 23:27:54 GMT
Belgium's win tonight has given Group E an interesting look where all four teams go into the last game on three points. In effect they've all beaten each other.
With my anorak on, the only other time I can remember that happening in a tournament was Ireland's group in the 1994 World Cup. On that occasion the final games were a draw leaving all four teams on four points with a goal difference of zero. John Aldridge's late consolation against Mexico, having nearly not been allowed on the pitch due to some meddling jobsworths hanging around the technical areas, proved to be reason why Ireland finishes second instead of last.
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Post by borussiachester on Jun 23, 2024 19:55:57 GMT
Feel like I’m watching a Chester home game here. Scotland with plenty of possession but happy to sit back, rather than going for the throat and trying and turn their dominance into something; too slow and predictable, not using the width well enough, and too few players making runs into the penalty area.
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Post by utb on Jun 23, 2024 20:01:12 GMT
Hope it finishes 0-0, neither deserve to go through. Comfortably the two worst teams in the comp.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 23, 2024 20:59:20 GMT
That really couldn't be more Scotland.
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tooth
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Post by tooth on Jun 23, 2024 21:04:05 GMT
No sympathy for Scotland got what they deserved a game they had to win and they were a shambles well done Hungary hope that player is ok
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Post by borussiachester on Jun 23, 2024 21:23:10 GMT
Scotland only have themselves to blame for that - they wouldn’t have had any need to throw the kitchen sink forward in the last ten minutes if they hadn’t been so passive when they were on top in the first half. Not convinced it was a penalty either - Armstrong had hold of Orbán’s shirt. It’ll be interesting to see how much pressure there’ll be on Steve Clarke in the coming days and weeks, because his tactics in these group games have been really quite poor, but it’s incredible that he’s been able to guide such a poor set of players to the tournament proper at all.
I don’t think Hungary really deserve to go through, either - I suppose it was a pretty poetic moment for them to get the winner in the time that had been added on due to that horrible injury to their player, but they didn’t play well tonight and on the whole have probably been just as disappointing as the Scots over the three games.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 23, 2024 21:27:41 GMT
Wasn't a penalty. Alan Shearer thinks anyone going within 10 yards of a striker is a penalty
Reminiscent of Wales in the last World Cup. They'll be patronisingly called "brave" but they weren't really and blew a massive opportunity.
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tooth
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Posts: 232
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Post by tooth on Jun 23, 2024 21:27:58 GMT
Scotland only have themselves to blame for that - they wouldn’t have had any need to throw the kitchen sink forward in the last ten minutes if they hadn’t been so passive when they were on top in the first half. Not convinced it was a penalty either - Armstrong had hold of Orbán’s shirt. It’ll be interesting to see how much pressure there’ll be on Steve Clarke in the coming days and weeks, because his tactics in these group games have been really quite poor, but it’s incredible that he’s been able to guide such a poor set of players to the tournament proper at all. I don’t think Hungary really deserve to go through, either - I suppose it was a pretty poetic moment for them to get the winner in the time that had been added on due to that horrible injury to their player, but they didn’t play well tonight and on the whole have probably been just as disappointing as the Scots over the three games. they won't sack Clarke hes a god in Scotland but take your point also if england play like that its all the papers
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tooth
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Post by tooth on Jun 23, 2024 21:38:16 GMT
Scotland didn't have a shot on target says it all che Adams should be sued for impersonating a footballer shankland carried more threat
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Post by waggoner on Jun 23, 2024 21:43:27 GMT
Feel like I’m watching a Chester home game here. Scotland with plenty of possession but happy to sit back, rather than going for the throat and trying and turn their dominance into something; too slow and predictable, not using the width well enough, and too few players making runs into the penalty area. That’s exactly how I felt. All possession no end product it was just like watching Chester near the end of last season. Scotland got exposed by Germany and the Swiss and Hungary were not great either but too good for Scotland. The Scots just lack quality did well to get there but were not able to make the step up required in the end
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Post by welshrover on Jun 23, 2024 22:11:17 GMT
They just have no pace up top. Can't really say much more about them.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 24, 2024 1:45:58 GMT
I don’t think Hungary really deserve to go through, either - I suppose it was a pretty poetic moment for them to get the winner in the time that had been added on due to that horrible injury to their player, but they didn’t play well tonight and on the whole have probably been just as disappointing as the Scots over the three games. I think Hungary will get through with that. I'd predict the third placed teams in Groups B and C to end up with less than three points, and possibly F as well. The commentator during the Scotland game said there is a precedent for a third-placed team to go through with two points in this 24-team format as it happened with two teams at the 1986 World Cup. He was overlooking the important detail that it was only two points for a win back then.
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Post by agl on Jun 24, 2024 4:30:16 GMT
Looked a penalty to me. Stuart Armstrong was clever in getting his body in front of the defender and he was clearly caught. Imagine the outcry if a ref from Argentina doesn't give that to England. Having said that Scotland didn't deserve to go through over the three games. Zero attacking threat. Arguably they were too passive last night but Clarke must know that if they'd gone behind there was little chance of scoring 2 to win. Understandably he was cautious until the last 20 minutes. They've got to find a goal scorer or it will continue to be a struggle.
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