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Post by rcb on Jul 14, 2017 18:29:47 GMT
Well I'm glad you choose to differentiate top flight professional sport, and football in particular, as a means to support the concept of extreme analysis. For me, the game at that level is dead. I like to see any sport's outcome determined by skills performed within the rules. Sadly this no longer is the case for many top flight sports. As long as the analytic chemist remains one step ahead of the testing analysts then cheats will prevail, and backroom staff seem to actively encourage and promote victory by stealth. No doubt Tom Daley will be on the backroom staff of a top Premier team soon to help improve diving! I no longer watch athletics, cycling, boxing, or football at the top level because I hate cheating. Top level football is very much the plaything of corrupt wealth, be they from Russia, the Middle East, or China. Even at our low level look what happened when a bit of corrupt wealth controlled Chester. No thanks, I'll stick to more honest aspects of sport when the occasional display of artistry gets me off my seat without feeling conned. Matty McGinn's goal a prime example. By and large real footy still exists at our level thank God. Bloody hell mate that was a bit OTT, its only using stats to determine the effectiveness of players etc. Its just a method of coaching that wasnt really around 'back in our day'. No one is cheating I'm 65 now and have heard some shite in my time. "No one is cheating" is the best yet. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 18:50:00 GMT
Bloody hell mate that was a bit OTT, its only using stats to determine the effectiveness of players etc. Its just a method of coaching that wasnt really around 'back in our day'. No one is cheating I'm 65 now and have heard some shite in my time. "No one is cheating" is the best yet. Please explain how using stats is cheating? |
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Post by marner93 on Jul 14, 2017 20:32:10 GMT
Well said Mr Samoey, is having your players live cleaner, conditioned better and training better cheating too? Do you really think that cheating doesn't happen in our leagues from diving to players spot betting or even match fixing? Heard some shite in my time, but no-one at our level is cheating is the best yet.
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Post by Rio Doherty on Jul 14, 2017 21:04:04 GMT
Well said Mr Samoey, is having your players live cleaner, conditioned better and training better cheating too? Do you really think that cheating doesn't happen in our leagues from diving to players spot betting or even match fixing? Heard some shite in my time, but no-one at our level is cheating is the best yet. Was it just me who went to the Barrow game back in March? |
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Post by rcb on Jul 15, 2017 7:11:22 GMT
Well said Mr Samoey, is having your players live cleaner, conditioned better and training better cheating too? Do you really think that cheating doesn't happen in our leagues from diving to players spot betting or even match fixing? Heard some shite in my time, but no-one at our level is cheating is the best yet. Nobody claimed there is no cheating at our level, which makes your statement a bit pointless, but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story! To get back to the subject of backroom staff, I believe the thread was opened by someone who felt the numbers involved were excessive for a team at our level, and perhaps being developed quicker than the playing side is progressing. I don't see any progression of the team over the past four years, still remaining amongst the bottom strugglers as illustrated theses last two seasons. Teams from lower leagues come up and finish higher, despite lesser fans, so it seems we are focussing excessively on off the pitch development. I believe this season is make or break time for many supporters, although there is a possibility that fans were lost by the end of April. The opening two months is critical, so let's hope on field recruitment these past three months has been sufficient. |
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Post by marner93 on Jul 15, 2017 10:06:33 GMT
You said you no longer watch top level of any sport as their is corruption, therefore implying that you watch lower level due to no corruption. We can't afford to field top level players in every position, so why not give the players we can afford an extra boost by employing a group of hard working background staff? Physiotherapy helps prevent or manage injuries, phycology, can find out why players had a good run of form then stop.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 10:27:09 GMT
This thread is gold. Utter gold.
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Post by rcb on Jul 15, 2017 15:11:56 GMT
You said you no longer watch top level of any sport as their is corruption, therefore implying that you watch lower level due to no corruption. We can't afford to field top level players in every position, so why not give the players we can afford an extra boost by employing a group of hard working background staff? Physiotherapy helps prevent or manage injuries, phycology, can find out why players had a good run of form then stop. Hi marner93. Thanks for giving my posts some attention. Please give a little more attention though, as there was no implications and it's wrong of you to suggest otherwise. I clearly stated I was unhappy with the level of both corruption and cheating in top sport, preferring to focus on a MORE HONEST level. More honest equates to less not nil. I agree in regard to a Physiotherapist, the irony here being that the opening list of staff to this thread did NOT include a Physio. I think just an oversight by the author. Don't agree with your simplistic view in regard to a psychologist however. At this level the NHS can deal with psychological issues to a higher level than the club can afford privately I'm sure. |
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Post by garoldblue on Jul 15, 2017 22:39:01 GMT
You said you no longer watch top level of any sport as their is corruption, therefore implying that you watch lower level due to no corruption. We can't afford to field top level players in every position, so why not give the players we can afford an extra boost by employing a group of hard working background staff? Physiotherapy helps prevent or manage injuries, phycology, can find out why players had a good run of form then stop. Hi marner93. Thanks for giving my posts some attention. Please give a little more attention though, as there was no implications and it's wrong of you to suggest otherwise. I clearly stated I was unhappy with the level of both corruption and cheating in top sport, preferring to focus on a MORE HONEST level. More honest equates to less not nil. I agree in regard to a Physiotherapist, the irony here being that the opening list of staff to this thread did NOT include a Physio. I think just an oversight by the author. Don't agree with your simplistic view in regard to a psychologist however. At this level the NHS can deal with psychological issues to a higher level than the club can afford privately I'm sure. 'It was better back in my day' And if you think you can just walk into an NHS doctors or hospital and get help with psychological issue then you really do have a very simplistic view on how things work |
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Post by joebloggs on Jul 15, 2017 23:21:59 GMT
Hi marner93. Thanks for giving my posts some attention. Please give a little more attention though, as there was no implications and it's wrong of you to suggest otherwise. I clearly stated I was unhappy with the level of both corruption and cheating in top sport, preferring to focus on a MORE HONEST level. More honest equates to less not nil. I agree in regard to a Physiotherapist, the irony here being that the opening list of staff to this thread did NOT include a Physio. I think just an oversight by the author. Don't agree with your simplistic view in regard to a psychologist however. At this level the NHS can deal with psychological issues to a higher level than the club can afford privately I'm sure. 'It was better back in my day' And if you think you can just walk into an NHS doctors or hospital and get help with psychological issue then you really do have a very simplistic view on how things work Agree, also the person in question is a qualified psychologist who is now attending a local university as they complete their post graduate masters degree in sports psychology. Not only are their skills industry specific, they are also related to dedicated sponsors of the club so doubt their services would cost the club much if anything at all. Fail to see any downside? BTW rcb physios are called sports therapists nowadays so no irony and yes the club has one. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 7:26:18 GMT
Sponge and a bucket of water is all that's needed, can't believe a club would waste money on anything else 😉
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Post by rcb on Jul 16, 2017 8:40:05 GMT
Hi marner93. Thanks for giving my posts some attention. Please give a little more attention though, as there was no implications and it's wrong of you to suggest otherwise. I clearly stated I was unhappy with the level of both corruption and cheating in top sport, preferring to focus on a MORE HONEST level. More honest equates to less not nil. I agree in regard to a Physiotherapist, the irony here being that the opening list of staff to this thread did NOT include a Physio. I think just an oversight by the author. Don't agree with your simplistic view in regard to a psychologist however. At this level the NHS can deal with psychological issues to a higher level than the club can afford privately I'm sure. 'It was better back in my day' And if you think you can just walk into an NHS doctors or hospital and get help with psychological issue then you really do have a very simplistic view on how things work You are absolutely correct - you can't just walk into an NHS doctors. It's not that simple. You need an appointment first, and then a referral to see a Psychologist. Who said otherwise? |
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Post by rcb on Jul 16, 2017 8:49:34 GMT
'It was better back in my day' And if you think you can just walk into an NHS doctors or hospital and get help with psychological issue then you really do have a very simplistic view on how things work Agree, also the person in question is a qualified psychologist who is now attending a local university as they complete their post graduate masters degree in sports psychology. Not only are their skills industry specific, they are also related to dedicated sponsors of the club so doubt their services would cost the club much if anything at all. Fail to see any downside? BTW rcb physios are called sports therapists nowadays so no irony and yes the club has one. Rather a condescending attitude based on a platform of ignorance. Physios and Sports therapist are different, albeit there are overlapping skills and specialisms. Physiotherapists have a broader knowledge base and medical background, which allows them to treat illnesses, diseases, neurological and respiratory issues. This makes them ideal for treating a wide range of patients, including complex patients with multiple conditions. Sports therapists generally have more exposure to sporting environments at an undergraduate level making them ideal for preventing sports injuries through specific strengthening programmes. The regulating body of Sports Therapy is The Society of Sports Therapists (SST). Physiotherapy is a healthcare profession regulated by the Health and Care Professions Council (HCPC. P.S. I'm pleased to hear of the much appreciated input by the psychologist in question, and who is currently in the process of studying for their Masters. They would readily admit there are many specialists in the NHS in far more senior and experienced positions. I really don't know what point you are trying to make. In an ideal world a fabulously diverse background staffing would be great, but Chester FC is a million miles away and has to prioritise. I'm simply saying our focus should be more on the playing side. |
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Post by joebloggs on Jul 16, 2017 23:15:34 GMT
Agree, also the person in question is a qualified psychologist who is now attending a local university as they complete their post graduate masters degree in sports psychology. Not only are their skills industry specific, they are also related to dedicated sponsors of the club so doubt their services would cost the club much if anything at all. Fail to see any downside? BTW rcb physios are called sports therapists nowadays so no irony and yes the club has one. Rather a condescending attitude based on a platform of ignorance. Physios and Sports therapist are different, albeit there are overlapping skills and specialisms. Physiotherapists have a broader knowledge base and medical background, which allows them to treat illnesses, diseases, neurological and respiratory issues. This makes them ideal for treating a wide range of patients, including complex patients with multiple conditions. Sports therapists generally have more exposure to sporting environments at an undergraduate level making them ideal for preventing sports injuries through specific strengthening programmes. The regulating body of Sports Therapy is The Society of Sports Therapists (SST). Physiotherapy is a healthcare profession regulated by the Health and Care Professions Council (HCPC. P.S. I'm pleased to hear of the much appreciated input by the psychologist in question, and who is currently in the process of studying for their Masters. They would readily admit there are many specialists in the NHS in far more senior and experienced positions. I really don't know what point you are trying to make. In an ideal world a fabulously diverse background staffing would be great, but Chester FC is a million miles away and has to prioritise. I'm simply saying our focus should be more on the playing side. Thanks for the potted history - 'Physiotherapist or Sports Therapist?' Isn't google great. Actually I was aware there was a clearly defined difference between the two crafts outside of the sport, however it's more nuanced within the game,as an example, following recent reports of upcoming changes to some of the FA's medical regulations regarding Sports Therapists leading departments in the National League, I have since had confirmation from the FA that clubs in the National league do not require a practitioner which is registered with the HCPC. They have confirmed that the 2017/18 regulations about to be published fully support Sports Therapists and their ability to lead medical departments in the National league. They have also stated that in the football league, we as Sports Therapists have the right to apply for a Physiotherapy position. However, the senior Physiotherapy position has to be a Chartered Physiotherapist'. CFC's sports therapist could apply for and be employed by a FL club under the title of an assistant physiotherapist, not assistant to, or even as a mere sports therapist. Indeed current FA regulations state that PL and FL clubs must 'employ at least one full time chartered physiotherapist as the Senior Physiotherapist. But that
'In exceptional circumstances and with prior permission from Head of FA Medical services the club may employ a graduate Sports Therapist with an accredited degree and who is a member of a recognised professional body and with appropriate indemnity insurance'. There is also no requirement in non league to employ a senior or chartered physiotherapist. As for your difficulty grasping the point I was, probably clumsily, attempting to make, I'll try again. The psychologist in question is currently studying for their master’s degree in sports psychology at a university whose sports science department is ranked as being the 6th best in the world. One of the courses requirements is that the student finds a suitable placement. CFC would seem ideal and together with the fact that they also happen to be an offspring of one of the clubs most committed and loyal sponsors I doubt it would incur much, if any financial cost to the club. Of course there are many more experienced, more qualified psychologists, including those who specialise in sports psychology in the world but how many of those working for the NHS are local and would be available as and when required by the club? My guess is less than 1. I'm also guessing that a proportion of that list posted at the top of the thread have been engaged on a similar basis i.e. with little or no drain on the finances. If that is the case then I don't see a problem, in fact I would have a problem with the club if they had overlooked the chance to make use of these skill sets. If, however I'm wrong and their appointments have had any significant impact on the playing budget then I would agree 100% with your stance. |
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Post by joebloggs on Jul 16, 2017 23:48:57 GMT
Excellent article, particularly the list of all the quality players Lincoln had at their disposal. Cowley had the management skills to play them all to their strengths. i hope you didn't miss the obvious qualities of the article because you were too engrossed in the nonsense about statistics! Did you hear about the farmer who adopted sports science for his prize pig? He recorded all its statistics faithfully seven times a day, analysed them with graphs and charts every day until it died. If only he had simply taken the time to feed it instead. Carry on enjoying the Daily Mail. When the brothers were appointed at Lincoln on the surface it appeared they had inherited a midtable club. Being total stat fanatics they dissected the previous season and came to the conclusion that if the season was based on the performance of the team between the 50th and 90th minute the club would have been relegated. Based on this they changed the training regime at the club. They also used stats to detemine the best use of Rhead in relation to fellow team members. |
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Post by rcb on Jul 17, 2017 9:15:28 GMT
Rather a condescending attitude based on a platform of ignorance. Physios and Sports therapist are different, albeit there are overlapping skills and specialisms. Physiotherapists have a broader knowledge base and medical background, which allows them to treat illnesses, diseases, neurological and respiratory issues. This makes them ideal for treating a wide range of patients, including complex patients with multiple conditions. Sports therapists generally have more exposure to sporting environments at an undergraduate level making them ideal for preventing sports injuries through specific strengthening programmes. The regulating body of Sports Therapy is The Society of Sports Therapists (SST). Physiotherapy is a healthcare profession regulated by the Health and Care Professions Council (HCPC. P.S. I'm pleased to hear of the much appreciated input by the psychologist in question, and who is currently in the process of studying for their Masters. They would readily admit there are many specialists in the NHS in far more senior and experienced positions. I really don't know what point you are trying to make. In an ideal world a fabulously diverse background staffing would be great, but Chester FC is a million miles away and has to prioritise. I'm simply saying our focus should be more on the playing side. Thanks for the potted history - 'Physiotherapist or Sports Therapist?' Isn't google great. Actually I was aware there was a clearly defined difference between the two crafts outside of the sport, however it's more nuanced within the game,as an example, following recent reports of upcoming changes to some of the FA's medical regulations regarding Sports Therapists leading departments in the National League, I have since had confirmation from the FA that clubs in the National league do not require a practitioner which is registered with the HCPC. They have confirmed that the 2017/18 regulations about to be published fully support Sports Therapists and their ability to lead medical departments in the National league. They have also stated that in the football league, we as Sports Therapists have the right to apply for a Physiotherapy position. However, the senior Physiotherapy position has to be a Chartered Physiotherapist'. CFC's sports therapist could apply for and be employed by a FL club under the title of an assistant physiotherapist, not assistant to, or even as a mere sports therapist. Indeed current FA regulations state that PL and FL clubs must 'employ at least one full time chartered physiotherapist as the Senior Physiotherapist. But that
'In exceptional circumstances and with prior permission from Head of FA Medical services the club may employ a graduate Sports Therapist with an accredited degree and who is a member of a recognised professional body and with appropriate indemnity insurance'. There is also no requirement in non league to employ a senior or chartered physiotherapist. As for your difficulty grasping the point I was, probably clumsily, attempting to make, I'll try again. The psychologist in question is currently studying for their master’s degree in sports psychology at a university whose sports science department is ranked as being the 6th best in the world. One of the courses requirements is that the student finds a suitable placement. CFC would seem ideal and together with the fact that they also happen to be an offspring of one of the clubs most committed and loyal sponsors I doubt it would incur much, if any financial cost to the club. Of course there are many more experienced, more qualified psychologists, including those who specialise in sports psychology in the world but how many of those working for the NHS are local and would be available as and when required by the club? My guess is less than 1. I'm also guessing that a proportion of that list posted at the top of the thread have been engaged on a similar basis i.e. with little or no drain on the finances. If that is the case then I don't see a problem, in fact I would have a problem with the club if they had overlooked the chance to make use of these skill sets. If, however I'm wrong and their appointments have had any significant impact on the playing budget then I would agree 100% with your stance. Wow. It looks like we are close to agreement. Amazing how quickly things escalate and deviate from relatively innocent comments. The comment "BTW rcb physios are called sports therapists nowadays" was clearly condescending in trying to infer I was in some way outdated and incorrect. You are now saying you have always been aware there is a difference between the two!!! What rattled your cage in feeling it necessary to post such an unfair accusation, knowing all along your statement was a lie? Of course, work placements benefit the student in their career progression without detriment to the host. I'm on your side in this regard. You also point out current regulations by the FA in regard to Premier League and Football League clubs, which takes me full circle. We are not at this stage, and my opinion is that playing squad development should be the priority. |
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