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Post by soulseal on Aug 1, 2017 21:05:46 GMT
I'm not sure what to make of this really. I mean, I kind of don't care, but it feels a bit out of the blue and something that, as a fan-owned club, we shouldn't really be finding out about via the press. Not great timing either. We always seem to get something happening just before the start of the season that diverts attention off the pitch. The appointment of Tony Allen was about this time of year as well. Reading that what I got was that this was something that has been discussed due to the sub letting bringing in an income stream 365 days a year, as opposed to the 23 days a year we may currently make a few hundred quid in parking on. Saying that it would appear that it is very early days, and that any final decision would be taken by the membership anyway. Not too alarmed by it to be honest, but I guess money is money. If the design of the depot was to allow for parking on the 30 odd occasions per year that it is required, especially if a second Entrance can be arranged then there is a potential for a good development here. I don't know how full the depot would be of course, but it makes sense to discuss. The lease is ours, so even with planning permission our commercial agreement would be needed. |
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Post by oldboneze on Aug 2, 2017 6:42:40 GMT
where is the disposal? sub-letting remember, the only thing we lose is park of a car park, which was hardly a disaster when the circus was there. Dictionary definition of asset "A useful or valuable thing or person".
This land is an asset in that the club has exclusive use of the site for the next 47 years, which is both useful and valuable. Whether by assignment of the lease or by sub-letting, that exclusivity (the asset) will be disposed of.
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Post by Firestick Frank on Aug 2, 2017 7:36:58 GMT
Is it just me or does the club statement not really touch on the subject of a long-term development plan for the car park/stadium expansion and the threat this proposal poses to that? I hope this is at least being taken into account.
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Post by norwegianblue on Aug 2, 2017 7:56:26 GMT
Out of curiosity, where do the buses and coaches park for race meetings?
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Post by Si on Aug 2, 2017 8:35:13 GMT
Initially I was pretty miffed when I heard about this. Having read the statement from McGuire then I guess I can see why the club would consider it - income all year around rather than just on match days would be tempting and it is part of his job to at least consider such ideas. If it was to go ahead it should be on condition that the entire car park is relayed (at no cost to us), and alternative parking arrangements for fans being sourced (perhaps strike up agreements with local business on Bumpers Lane?). Ultimately it would mean that the car park would be for coaches, players, fans in the hospitality areas, disabled fans, and then the rest being available for car park pass holders. I don't imagine anything quick will happen with this idea, and I cannot see CWaC agreeing to it without the alternative parking being sorted as it would cause dangerous situations with extra cars fighting for spaces etc. Ultimately, the club are doing the right thing considering this, but if it was to go ahead then I imagine it would only be if we can get some benefits to ourselves that would outweight the income we get from matchday parking/circus/car boots.
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Post by BarntonBen on Aug 2, 2017 9:24:57 GMT
Am I missing something here?
The statement from the club reads:-
“In this particular case we are at an early stage, and three things need to happen before I can ask the board to consider the matter:
1) An attractive commercial proposal is received which would include income, car park improvements and satisfaction that lost spaces could be compensated for.
2) Our landlords are satisfied with the proposal.
3) That any planning requirements are satisfied.
“At this early stage only brief discussions have taken place but none of the above criteria have been satisfied "
But...the planning permission has been put in from a commercial organisation!
So... hasn't at least point 1 been met? If not, then how can a planned application have been put in?
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Post by CH2 on Aug 2, 2017 9:28:20 GMT
Free Park & Ride could be an option. This addresses the loss of the parking at the ground and traffic congestion in the area.
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Post by stangandy on Aug 2, 2017 9:42:48 GMT
I too was a bit concerned - but the Club statement reassures. As a supporter owned Club we have to diversify and extend our off field revenue and if this brings in substantial revenue 365 days a year then I think it needs serious consideration. Surely there are opportunities around the industrial estate to open up extra parking. And the fields on the opposite side of Bumpers Lane that we were exploring for pitches and a possible training ground are unsuitable for that (because of the blight of the proposed relief road) but would be perfectly suitable for parking....
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Post by Ian H Block on Aug 2, 2017 10:15:04 GMT
Looking at commercial rents for (already constructed) light-industrial units I don't believe the financial gain will be anything like some posters are imagining.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 11:11:48 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't we make more use of the area immediately to the left of the main gates and behind the "Clock End" for parking, especially for away fans who I often see parking in the main area.
I don't know whether this is already the case as I'm usually in the ground pretty early - just a thought
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Post by Jack on Aug 2, 2017 11:14:55 GMT
If we can make a decent whack out of it, I see no real problems here.
If it was a bus station, it'd be more problematic. But if it's just a space for unused buses to sit, then surely it's money for an area which is hardly used?
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Post by Si on Aug 2, 2017 13:22:40 GMT
What I would say is that the club should have given us a heads up on this at the last CFU meeting. As owners we shouldn't really be finding stuff out about this in the press - some explanation at the recent CFU meeting would have helped clear up some of the questions and dampened some of the negativity surrounding it.
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Post by embalmer on Aug 2, 2017 14:19:57 GMT
What I would say is that the club should have given us a heads up on this at the last CFU meeting. As owners we shouldn't really be finding stuff out about this in the press - some explanation at the recent CFU meeting would have helped clear up some of the questions and dampened some of the negativity surrounding it. Maguire says in his statement that he has not yet asked the CFU board to consider this proposal as it is at an early stage. From that, I'm assuming the board didn't know anything about it, hence why nothing was said at the CFU meeting. |
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Post by sqzl on Aug 2, 2017 14:33:03 GMT
Looking at commercial rents for (already constructed) light-industrial units I don't believe the financial gain will be anything like some posters are imagining. It would have to be at least more income that the car-boots and annual car park money would generate to make it viable. If they have to compensate for say 200 car park spots a fortnight, you're looking at £1k a fortnight + to make it worthwhile purely for spaces, then land rent. We generate around 8-12k from the car boot per season. That would need compensating too. I'd probably say if it's not worth £50k a season to the club then it's not worthwhile. Looking online you can rent a building for about 30-£40k a year but it wouldn't be custom built to their spec. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Aug 2, 2017 14:46:47 GMT
What I would say is that the club should have given us a heads up on this at the last CFU meeting. As owners we shouldn't really be finding stuff out about this in the press - some explanation at the recent CFU meeting would have helped clear up some of the questions and dampened some of the negativity surrounding it. Maguire says in his statement that he has not yet asked the CFU board to consider this proposal as it is at an early stage. From that, I'm assuming the board didn't know anything about it, hence why nothing was said at the CFU meeting. Who bosses who then? Is this Maguire's club? Would the board, and subsequently the rest of us owners, not have found out had this not been leaked to the press? |
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Post by billyw on Aug 2, 2017 15:21:29 GMT
Maguire says in his statement that he has not yet asked the CFU board to consider this proposal as it is at an early stage. From that, I'm assuming the board didn't know anything about it, hence why nothing was said at the CFU meeting. Who bosses who then? Is this Maguire's club? Would the board, and subsequently the rest of us owners, not have found out had this not been leaked to the press? Why make an issue of this - Surely it is right that Maguire does all the spadework and then puts the proposals to the Board. It would be interesting to know who leaked it to the press prematurely though, probably Stagecoach. |
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Post by superman on Aug 2, 2017 15:48:56 GMT
Sounds to me as if Mark Maguire is doing his job and handling this issue professionally. As for leaks to the press, the planning application was in the public domain on the FCC web site which will I am sure be monitored by the local press for "interesting proposed developments". If and when there is a suitable detailed proposal for the board to consider we will hopefully be updated, wouldn't expect anything else, although "commercial sensitivity" will undoubtedly get used to frustrate us all!!
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Post by sqzl on Aug 2, 2017 15:57:13 GMT
Who bosses who then? Is this Maguire's club? Would the board, and subsequently the rest of us owners, not have found out had this not been leaked to the press? Why make an issue of this - Surely it is right that Maguire does all the spadework and then puts the proposals to the Board. It would be interesting to know who leaked it to the press prematurely though, probably Stagecoach. Would be easy information to find out i suspect. It's a big company and one is bound to be a football fan or know one. In fairness i agree, why would be employ Maguire if not for these situations? He's doing his job and doesnt have to report to the fans every time a possible development arises, that's how you get a bad name when they fall through. I think it's all pretty professional, at the end of the days its not the fans decision either, it's the board appointted who make the decisions at the end of the day. |
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Post by garoldblue on Aug 2, 2017 16:04:30 GMT
Looking at commercial rents for (already constructed) light-industrial units I don't believe the financial gain will be anything like some posters are imagining. It would have to be at least more income that the car-boots and annual car park money would generate to make it viable. If they have to compensate for say 200 car park spots a fortnight, you're looking at £1k a fortnight + to make it worthwhile purely for spaces, then land rent. We generate around 8-12k from the car boot per season. That would need compensating too. I'd probably say if it's not worth £50k a season to the club then it's not worthwhile. Looking online you can rent a building for about 30-£40k a year but it wouldn't be custom built to their spec. Wouldn't it be the parking space they are in need of and not just a unit? |
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Post by silverseal on Aug 2, 2017 16:19:59 GMT
Re who bosses who: Mark Maguire is the Chief Executive Officer of the Club. The clue is in the title. As such he is a full member of the Board and also sits on the Operational Board and ultimately he is accountable to the Board but on a day to day basis he is the person in charge. This is why he was appointed so as to take the load off the volunteer Directors. I know from my time on the Board that we regularly got approaches about possible alternative uses for the Car Park and I am confident that if this proposal becomes a serious one that a detailed report will be prepared for the Board to consider and weigh up all the pros and cons.
I can see advantages here if the finances are right and that any sub-lease ties them in for a period to make it worthwhile. We could also negotiate for improvements/resurfacing of the Car Park to be part of the deal. There is a lot of unused and derelict land area behind the harry mac and also a lot of grassed areas around the Stadium that could be brought into use to help offset the loss of car parking spaces arising from this. We could also make better use of the area behind the South Stand and this too has a large unused grassed area that could be brought into play.
At the minute, the Car park is used for 23 home matches per year plus any cup/ friendly games. This probably amounts to 30 days a year in total and for the remaining 330 days its a wasted resource as things stand at present.
I do agree though that id this were to come to fruition then there is an opportunity cost to pay both in terms of the potential loss of parking spaces on a match day; or alternative uses of the area e.g a 4G Pitch and Community Hub etc. As such, I think the Board would be well advised to consult with the membership on this and the upcoming AGM in the Autumn would seem the ideal time and place for this to happen.
These are my first thoughts for what they are worth. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Aug 2, 2017 17:42:09 GMT
Fair enough, perhaps I jumped the gun a little. As I did say, though, the potential of stadium expansion has to be considered too.
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Post by bluefrombirth on Aug 2, 2017 18:03:28 GMT
Re who bosses who: Mark Maguire is the Chief Executive Officer of the Club. The clue is in the title. As such he is a full member of the Board and also sits on the Operational Board and ultimately he is accountable to the Board but on a day to day basis he is the person in charge. This is why he was appointed so as to take the load off the volunteer Directors. I know from my time on the Board that we regularly got approaches about possible alternative uses for the Car Park and I am confident that if this proposal becomes a serious one that a detailed report will be prepared for the Board to consider and weigh up all the pros and cons.
I can see advantages here if the finances are right and that any sub-lease ties them in for a period to make it worthwhile. We could also negotiate for improvements/resurfacing of the Car Park to be part of the deal. There is a lot of unused and derelict land area behind the harry mac and also a lot of grassed areas around the Stadium that could be brought into use to help offset the loss of car parking spaces arising from this. We could also make better use of the area behind the South Stand and this too has a large unused grassed area that could be brought into play.
At the minute, the Car park is used for 23 home matches per year plus any cup/ friendly games. This probably amounts to 30 days a year in total and for the remaining 330 days its a wasted resource as things stand at present.
I do agree though that id this were to come to fruition then there is an opportunity cost to pay both in terms of the potential loss of parking spaces on a match day; or alternative uses of the area e.g a 4G Pitch and Community Hub etc. As such, I think the Board would be well advised to consult with the membership on this and the upcoming AGM in the Autumn would seem the ideal time and place for this to happen.
These are my first thoughts for what they are worth. To clarify, Mark MaGuire is not a member of either the CFU Main board or the delegated Ops board. He is an employee of the club, and like any CEO, reports to a board. In our case he reports into the Ops board which in turn reports to the full board. This done to allow day to day decisions made by mark to be ratefied quicker through the Ops board, rather than slowing actions down by having to go to the full board. Strategic decisions for the club, do not nessecarily need to be proposed by a member of the board, but the full board makes the final decision |
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Post by Rio Doherty on Aug 2, 2017 19:01:15 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't we make more use of the area immediately to the left of the main gates and behind the "Clock End" for parking, especially for away fans who I often see parking in the main area. I don't know whether this is already the case as I'm usually in the ground pretty early - just a thought I thought the away coaches parked behind the MBNA Stand. |
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Post by bluesince72 on Aug 2, 2017 21:26:47 GMT
As stated above, if any deal included resurfacing the whole remaining area around the stadium including the grassed areas then the net loss of parking spaces would be low, also the area left should then be sufficient to hold car boot sales. The only down side is that any future expansion of the Harry Mac would be limited by lack of space.
A bigger question is, if the membership were to reject any deal offering substantial annual income, then how will the club ever progress? Its a conundrum that has been the theme of many DC threads. Well this could just maybe be a big part of the solution.
Just surviving in this league as a part time fan owned club is an achievement and is getting more difficult every year with bankrolled clubs coming up and parachute payments rewarding relegated clubs handsomly. A full time squad and with it a realistic chance to aim for automatic promotion is at present just a dream.
If, and its a very big and speculative if, we could get circa 50k a year,a resurfaced car park, including currently grassed areas, and match day buses from any deal we would be crazy to turn it down IMO.
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Post by sqzl on Aug 2, 2017 22:44:46 GMT
It would have to be at least more income that the car-boots and annual car park money would generate to make it viable. If they have to compensate for say 200 car park spots a fortnight, you're looking at £1k a fortnight + to make it worthwhile purely for spaces, then land rent. We generate around 8-12k from the car boot per season. That would need compensating too. I'd probably say if it's not worth £50k a season to the club then it's not worthwhile. Looking online you can rent a building for about 30-£40k a year but it wouldn't be custom built to their spec. Wouldn't it be the parking space they are in need of and not just a unit? Yeah but even so, lots of units available do have land alongside them. I'd suspect they'd look at offering maybe 25-30k a year sub lease. However I don't think it would be worth it when we make approx 20-25 now on it. No if we were to gain 40-50 a season then it's guaranteed money for the remainder of the lease...which things like car boot sales are not. My question would be, looking very long term, when we reapply for the lease is there any potential Stagecoach could then just lease the land from the council and we end up in bother? |
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Post by henry on Aug 3, 2017 13:51:16 GMT
Can anybody give a definitive answer regarding the current status of the car park and its terms of use.
From my recollection, the use of the car park was originally controlled by the Council and when the stadium was built there was talk about the car park being used as a bus depot!!!
Perhaps this changed with the new lease
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