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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 10:34:39 GMT
I am constantly amazed at the people on here who hark back to the glory days of investor ownership. How has that worked out for us in the past? Eric Barnes - sold our beloved old ground and training ground piece by piece for his own personal gain, and left us with absolutely nothing to show for it Morrisons - built the council a piece of cack legoland ground in the middle of nowhere, starved our most succesful manager in ten years of funds, causing him to quit, make millions out of us on the Greyhound Park
Mark Guterman - never paid any bills leading to the manager having to pay a water bill. Ran a fleet of very expensive cars in the clubs name
Terry Smith - absolute bloody head the ball who lost us our beloved Football League status
Stephen Vaughan - started great, spent loads of drug money on carpets and a fantastic squad which got us promoted. When our 'benefactor' got gunned down by a Columbian drug cartel held a minutes silence. Used the club as a cash cow (ask anyone who worked in the cash office during this time), lost us our Football League status, then sent our beloved club into extinction twice, death by a thousand cuts, without even having the good grace to turn up at the high court to wave it off. Even having the greatest benefactor ever, Jack Walker, has lead to Blackburn eventually becoming an absolute shambles on and off the pitch, owned by an Indian chicken farmers family who have no love for Blackburn Rovers. Who is our Jack Walker? Reckon the Qatari government are interested in us? Sorry but the word investor means somebody wants a return on their initial outlay, as 4 of the 5 above did. The other was Terry Smith, who was an egomaniac clown. What we have is not perfect. Christ, watching that at Kidderminster and again the second half Saturday was as embarrassing and annoying as any game under Terry Smith (barring perhaps the Brighton home game), but our model means we will at least live to fight another day. We may well go down (with Halls, McCombs, LRT, James and Lynch in the team it is nailed on) but we will regroup, lick our wounds and maybe it will galvanise a support that has become apathetic in the extreme. Long term planning needs to take place at the club, with plans in place to improve our off the field sustainability. - We need a disabled supporters elevated dry viewing area and first floor club access
- We need a training ground with 4G facility for our own academy, first team and the additional revenue it will bring
- We need a solid financial plan based on a vision for the future. Is the FL now a ten year plan? Should we be spending all our income on the first team, or investing in making our club more attractive for people to attend with better facilities, thus growing our fan base for a future run at the FL?
I don't have all the answers, all that I know is that when we first spoke about CFC my main driver was to have a club that would be there for my sons to support like I did. Now my main concern is that this club is there for my grandchildren. To gamble this on an unknown shyster waving a bundle of 50s about to spend on one attempt at promotion before putting us into administration saying we owe him £1m in directors loans is crazy, and something that our current model is designed to prevent. We should be defending that with our very last breath. |
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Post by chesterken on Nov 27, 2017 10:46:31 GMT
I am constantly amazed at the people on here who hark back to the glory days of investor ownership. How has that worked out for us in the past? Eric Barnes - sold our beloved old ground and training ground piece by piece for his own personal gain, and left us with absolutely nothing to show for it Morrisons - built the council a piece of cack legoland ground in the middle of nowhere, starved our most succesful manager in ten years of funds, causing him to quit, make millions out of us on the Greyhound Park
Mark Guterman - never paid any bills leading to the manager having to pay a water bill. Ran a fleet of very expensive cars in the clubs name
Terry Smith - absolute bloody head the ball who lost us our beloved Football League status
Stephen Vaughan - started great, spent loads of drug money on carpets and a fantastic squad which got us promoted. When our 'benefactor' got gunned down by a Columbian drug cartel held a minutes silence. Used the club as a cash cow (ask anyone who worked in the cash office during this time), lost us our Football League status, then sent our beloved club into extinction twice, death by a thousand cuts, without even having the good grace to turn up at the high court to wave it off. Even having the greatest benefactor ever, Jack Walker, has lead to Blackburn eventually becoming an absolute shambles on and off the pitch, owned by an Indian chicken farmers family who have no love for Blackburn Rovers. Who is our Jack Walker? Reckon the Qatari government are interested in us? Sorry but the word investor means somebody wants a return on their initial outlay, as 4 of the 5 above did. The other was Terry Smith, who was an egomaniac clown. What we have is not perfect. Christ, watching that at Kidderminster and again the second half Saturday was as embarrassing and annoying as any game under Terry Smith (barring perhaps the Brighton home game), but our model means we will at least live to fight another day. We may well go down (with Halls, McCombs, LRT, James and Lynch in the team it is nailed on) but we will regroup, lick our wounds and maybe it will galvanise a support that has become apathetic in the extreme. Long term planning needs to take place at the club, with plans in place to improve our off the field sustainability. - We need a disabled supporters elevated dry viewing area and first floor club access
- We need a training ground with 4G facility for our own academy, first team and the additional revenue it will bring
- We need a solid financial plan based on a vision for the future. Is the FL now a ten year plan? Should we be spending all our income on the first team, or investing in making our club more attractive for people to attend with better facilities, thus growing our fan base for a future run at the FL?
I don't have all the answers, all that I know is that when we first spoke about CFC my main driver was to have a club that would be there for my sons to support like I did. Now my main concern is that this club is there for my grandchildren. To gamble this on an unknown shyster waving a bundle of 50s about to spend on one attempt at promotion before putting us into administration saying we owe him £1m in directors loans is crazy, and something that our current model is designed to prevent. We should be defending that with our very last breath. Outstanding post 👏 |
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Post by bing on Nov 27, 2017 10:50:19 GMT
Well said Mark.
I'd never want short-term gain over long-term stability.
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Post by superman on Nov 27, 2017 10:59:29 GMT
I am a supporter of the principle of fan ownership, however we have now reached a situation where not enough Chester supporters care enough to make this work and be sustainable at National League. CFU membership now stands at a little over 1000, and that is not enough to sustain the model at this level. Too few people care enough, or have enough spare funds, to contribute financially, demonstrated by the recent Bignot fund appeal. Too many people just want to turn up when the goings good , and are happy for others to take responsibility. Sadly I am coming to the conclusion that we are just too small to make it work as fan owned.
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Post by agl on Nov 27, 2017 10:59:53 GMT
Yes, essential reading. We should never sacrifice fans' ownership
It's been clear for a while that we've hit the ceiling in terms of progression on the pitch. We are a million miles from football league status and the question is whether we can even run as a national league club. Even if we stay up the budget will be reduced next season so it will inevitably be another year of struggle. The bottom line is that while we have a hard core of 1500 fans the only way we will attract more to games is by winning consistently at home. We can't rely on producing players to sell (one since we reformed and Hughes is still the only one to have come through the youth system to have played regular first team football) - I do think that side of things needs a rethink on how we recruit youngsters.
The biggest problem is apathy - whether it's because of results over the part few season there's a cloud hanging over the club. Somewhere we have lost that great optimism that we had in the early years. Also, there isn't an endless supply of people willing to go on the board - worries me that over time the quality of board members will decrease as all the strong ones have been and gone. Maybe we need to be looking for fresh blood again, away from the club, as per the MBNA tie up where we get some time from their talented people.
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Post by The Angry Agenda on Nov 27, 2017 11:12:36 GMT
Would the German model not work ? There is an overall owner, but fans are represented and get a fair amount of say with regards what goes on,
and how the club is run. They also see things from the inside and can report back to the overall fanbase - something that never happened when
past owners shit on us from a great height.
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Post by league2 on Nov 27, 2017 11:19:47 GMT
do not fear people coming in with money to help the club ,all it needs is someone with a love of the game that wants to be well looked after with food and drink once a fortnight at the match for a nice lump sum once a season . papers can be drawn up to give them no rights to the club its not that hard to do .
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Post by mcseal on Nov 27, 2017 11:27:00 GMT
do not fear people coming in with money to help the club ,all it needs is someone with a love of the game that wants to be well looked after with food and drink once a fortnight at the match for a nice lump sum once a season . papers can be drawn up to give them no rights to the club its not that hard to do . Do you have the name and address of this person? |
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Post by kyle on Nov 27, 2017 11:29:58 GMT
I can see that these are strongly held beliefs that have a lot of support. However I disagree, and I think there are a fair few others who do.
You may feel that a sustainable fan owned club, at any level, is the priority. I do not. A few levels below and we are little more than a glorified social club with a pub team. The standard of football is bad enough now.
I want to support a professional team that represents my city. A team that competes nationally, with a good standard of football. Decent opposition who bring fans, with decent away games to look forward to. This means football league, which should be where the club is aiming towards.
The attitude of fan owned is the only way will kill any hope of a professional club and team. In 5-10 years we will be in the evo stik playing in front of sub 1,000 crowds. This is not what I signed up for.
On another thread the similarities to when Atkins took over. Look at some of the teams we were playing. Brighton, Rotherham, Hull. A few seasons earlier Wigan, Fulham, Swansea. Do you think their fans would swap their promotions and new stadiums for fan ownership?
Yes there are negatives to external investment, yes there are dodgy owners. That is why we would need to be careful and keep a CFU voice. But to completely rule out investment is to say we are happy to never be a league side again
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Post by Al on Nov 27, 2017 11:30:39 GMT
do not fear people coming in with money to help the club ,all it needs is someone with a love of the game that wants to be well looked after with food and drink once a fortnight at the match for a nice lump sum once a season . papers can be drawn up to give them no rights to the club its not that hard to do . Do you have the name and address of this person?
Santa Claus 1 Elf Street North Pole H0 0HO
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Post by adrianh on Nov 27, 2017 11:49:24 GMT
do not fear people coming in with money to help the club ,all it needs is someone with a love of the game that wants to be well looked after with food and drink once a fortnight at the match for a nice lump sum once a season . papers can be drawn up to give them no rights to the club its not that hard to do . You’d have to be very careful here. It would be very difficult to ensure any large investors did not have too much influence over the CEO , financial director and board members. |
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Post by adrianh on Nov 27, 2017 11:55:02 GMT
I can see that these are strongly held beliefs that have a lot of support. However I disagree, and I think there are a fair few others who do. You may feel that a sustainable fan owned club, at any level, is the priority. I do not. A few levels below and we are little more than a glorified social club with a pub team. The standard of football is bad enough now. I want to support a professional team that represents my city. A team that competes nationally, with a good standard of football. Decent opposition who bring fans, with decent away games to look forward to. This means football league, which should be where the club is aiming towards. The attitude of fan owned is the only way will kill any hope of a professional club and team. In 5-10 years we will be in the evo stik playing in front of sub 1,000 crowds. This is not what I signed up for. On another thread the similarities to when Atkins took over. Look at some of the teams we were playing. Brighton, Rotherham, Hull. A few seasons earlier Wigan, Fulham, Swansea. Do you think their fans would swap their promotions and new stadiums for fan ownership? Yes there are negatives to external investment, yes there are dodgy owners. That is why we would need to be careful and keep a CFU voice. But to completely rule out investment is to say we are happy to never be a league side again I’m happy for us to stay at whatever level we’re capable of sustaining, still less than ten years old as a new business model we have a lot to learn and maximise our potential. If we hand over control to someone else I’m gone, can find other things to do with my time as the club wouldn’t be mine any more. |
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Post by Al on Nov 27, 2017 11:57:40 GMT
I can see that these are strongly held beliefs that have a lot of support. However I disagree, and I think there are a fair few others who do. You may feel that a sustainable fan owned club, at any level, is the priority. I do not. A few levels below and we are little more than a glorified social club with a pub team. The standard of football is bad enough now. I want to support a professional team that represents my city. A team that competes nationally, with a good standard of football. Decent opposition who bring fans, with decent away games to look forward to. This means football league, which should be where the club is aiming towards. The attitude of fan owned is the only way will kill any hope of a professional club and team. In 5-10 years we will be in the evo stik playing in front of sub 1,000 crowds. This is not what I signed up for. On another thread the similarities to when Atkins took over. Look at some of the teams we were playing. Brighton, Rotherham, Hull. A few seasons earlier Wigan, Fulham, Swansea. Do you think their fans would swap their promotions and new stadiums for fan ownership? Yes there are negatives to external investment, yes there are dodgy owners. That is why we would need to be careful and keep a CFU voice. But to completely rule out investment is to say we are happy to never be a league side again I’m happy for us to stay at whatever level we’re capable of sustaining, still less than ten years old as a new business model we have a lot to learn and maximise our potential. If we hand over control to someone else I’m gone, can find other things to do with my time as the club wouldn’t be mine any more. I'm in that boat as well. We were sold a dream of 100% Supporter ownership, and I still believe that 100% supporter ownership is the only way football has a sustainable future.
Any dilution of that 100% ownership model and I'm gone
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Post by kyle on Nov 27, 2017 12:00:28 GMT
I feel like throwing the towel in now. We are not a business, we're a charity. What business says to it's customers give us more money for nothing or the business will be worse.
Fast forward 10 years, the same topics will be on here. We'll be near the bottom of the northern premier, with the solution to our problems being "sell more raffle tickets"
I can find better things to do than watch a team of unfit amateurs hoof the ball about. A lot of people already have
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Post by adrianh on Nov 27, 2017 12:09:48 GMT
I feel like throwing the towel in now. We are not a business, we're a charity. What business says to it's customers give us more money for nothing or the business will be worse. Fast forward 10 years, the same topics will be on here. We'll be near the bottom of the northern premier, with the solution to our problems being "sell more raffle tickets" I can find better things to do than watch a team of unfit amateurs hoof the ball about. A lot of people already have Were not customers either though. Instead of us having one rich owner who puts money into the club Theres a thousand or so of us who contribute what we caneacb afford for ‘our club’ . I’ve paid , contributed over the last 6/7 years for the pleasure of watching a club I can really connect with and feel I belong to, sure the results a crap at the moment, but wouldn’t have it any other way. |
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Post by league2 on Nov 27, 2017 12:34:17 GMT
we must not come across as some secret society that is closed to any outsiders that is defo not the way to be . its backers not investers we are talking about here, say maybe a wealthy buisnessman that wants to right a bit of tax off from his company with a sponsership, thats how a lot of clubs are funded why should we be so different
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Post by Bristol Blue on Nov 27, 2017 12:35:34 GMT
Some people are talking about it like having an "investor" or "owner" will be the answer to everything. Its not a guarantee for success!
There a plenty of clubs above us with being investors going nowhere and plenty of teams below us in the same boat.
Macc consistently have one of the smallest budgets in the league but seem to compete year on year and even got a Wembley final out of it last year. Meanwhile Eastleigh keep lashing cash at managers and players and only sit 3 places above us. The cash means nothing unless its spent well. No matter how big or small that sum maybe.
In response to Superman, we may ultimately be to small to make it fan owned... at this level and at this current time. Things like this don't happen overnight and bar the feats of AFC Wimbledon we've been as successful as most in our current model (Wrexham aside this season). Halifax, FCUM, Darlington etc aren't exactly in positions far greater than we are.
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Post by Al on Nov 27, 2017 12:50:26 GMT
we must not come across as some secret society that is closed to any outsiders that is defo not the way to be . its backers not investers we are talking about here, say maybe a wealthy buisnessman that wants to right a bit of tax off from his company with a sponsership, thats how a lot of clubs are funded why should we be so different We're not a secret society.
We're not closed to outsiders.
If people want to invest and sponsor the club then they can contact the club for no-strings sponsorship.
If you're talking about someone investing millions in us with having no return on their investment then you're living on a different planet. Won't ever happen.
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Post by chesterken on Nov 27, 2017 12:56:39 GMT
I feel like throwing the towel in now. We are not a business, we're a charity. What business says to it's customers give us more money for nothing or the business will be worse. Fast forward 10 years, the same topics will be on here. We'll be near the bottom of the northern premier, with the solution to our problems being "sell more raffle tickets" I can find better things to do than watch a team of unfit amateurs hoof the ball about. A lot of people already have The problem with some football supporters is when things are going well everyone’s on board this is great attitude, but as soon as things get hard they wine and quit they just walk away, people come on here and slate the players for not playing for the shirt or the club etc, then they state they are not going to come any more. Is that what supporting a team is all about, I don’t think so have a good moan on the day ,have a moan on here then dust yourself down and get yourself along to the next game. Repeat. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 12:58:13 GMT
I feel like throwing the towel in now. We are not a business, we're a charity. What business says to it's customers give us more money for nothing or the business will be worse. Fast forward 10 years, the same topics will be on here. We'll be near the bottom of the northern premier, with the solution to our problems being "sell more raffle tickets" I can find better things to do than watch a team of unfit amateurs hoof the ball about. A lot of people already have And will continue to do so. That is why work needs doing to organically grow our hardcore fan base, as the glory hunters will receed until just the real hardcore exists. Same as it ever was, our average during the 70s and 80s was 7 bad years to 1 good... The hard facts are that "a professional team that represents my city. A team that competes nationally, with a good standard of football. Decent opposition who bring fans, with decent away games to look forward to. This means football league, which should be where the club is aiming towards" unfortunately does not currently exist, and will take an awful lot of hard work to achieve. We cant buy it. There is no sugar daddy waiting in the wings to spunk a lottery win or "tax write off" on us. And if there was, the last 5 haven't worked out for us, so why would number 6? As stated above, if you have a number for this person, I am sure the board would willingly speak about how they could help out. Or would you rather that person come in, own the whole gaff, give us one good year and run up a load of debt before fucking off and leaving us to try to put together the pieces again? It wont happen a second time from scratch, next time it would be gone for good. We all want a Football League club back in Chester. Every one of us. Unfortunately in the current state it is in that is not going to happen. We need to look at our priorities, and build a more solid base than the frankly shambolic make do and mend situation we are currently in - ie, training facilities, it is a good job our players are having a fitness week, as Saughall is now flooded and will be unplayable for the foreseeable future - and then plan properly for how we are going to grow. Some people will not want this, and I understand that. Unfortunately if the alternatives are another club, or DIY, or some other such shite, then I'm more than happy to watch amateurs. As long as they represent my club and city. |
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Post by lookingin on Nov 27, 2017 13:13:08 GMT
I am constantly amazed at the people on here who hark back to the glory days of investor ownership. How has that worked out for us in the past? Eric Barnes - sold our beloved old ground and training ground piece by piece for his own personal gain, and left us with absolutely nothing to show for it Morrisons - built the council a piece of cack legoland ground in the middle of nowhere, starved our most succesful manager in ten years of funds, causing him to quit, make millions out of us on the Greyhound Park
Mark Guterman - never paid any bills leading to the manager having to pay a water bill. Ran a fleet of very expensive cars in the clubs name
Terry Smith - absolute bloody head the ball who lost us our beloved Football League status
Stephen Vaughan - started great, spent loads of drug money on carpets and a fantastic squad which got us promoted. When our 'benefactor' got gunned down by a Columbian drug cartel held a minutes silence. Used the club as a cash cow (ask anyone who worked in the cash office during this time), lost us our Football League status, then sent our beloved club into extinction twice, death by a thousand cuts, without even having the good grace to turn up at the high court to wave it off. Even having the greatest benefactor ever, Jack Walker, has lead to Blackburn eventually becoming an absolute shambles on and off the pitch, owned by an Indian chicken farmers family who have no love for Blackburn Rovers. Who is our Jack Walker? Reckon the Qatari government are interested in us? Sorry but the word investor means somebody wants a return on their initial outlay, as 4 of the 5 above did. The other was Terry Smith, who was an egomaniac clown. What we have is not perfect. Christ, watching that at Kidderminster and again the second half Saturday was as embarrassing and annoying as any game under Terry Smith (barring perhaps the Brighton home game), but our model means we will at least live to fight another day. We may well go down (with Halls, McCombs, LRT, James and Lynch in the team it is nailed on) but we will regroup, lick our wounds and maybe it will galvanise a support that has become apathetic in the extreme. Long term planning needs to take place at the club, with plans in place to improve our off the field sustainability. - We need a disabled supporters elevated dry viewing area and first floor club access
- We need a training ground with 4G facility for our own academy, first team and the additional revenue it will bring
- We need a solid financial plan based on a vision for the future. Is the FL now a ten year plan? Should we be spending all our income on the first team, or investing in making our club more attractive for people to attend with better facilities, thus growing our fan base for a future run at the FL?
I don't have all the answers, all that I know is that when we first spoke about CFC my main driver was to have a club that would be there for my sons to support like I did. Now my main concern is that this club is there for my grandchildren. To gamble this on an unknown shyster waving a bundle of 50s about to spend on one attempt at promotion before putting us into administration saying we owe him £1m in directors loans is crazy, and something that our current model is designed to prevent. We should be defending that with our very last breath. I've talked about all of this and I get slated on here |
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Post by Hannibal on Nov 27, 2017 13:16:01 GMT
Some people are talking about it like having an "investor" or "owner" will be the answer to everything. Its not a guarantee for success! There a plenty of clubs above us with being investors going nowhere and plenty of teams below us in the same boat. Macc consistently have one of the smallest budgets in the league but seem to compete year on year and even got a Wembley final out of it last year. Meanwhile Eastleigh keep lashing cash at managers and players and only sit 3 places above us. The cash means nothing unless its spent well. No matter how big or small that sum maybe. In response to Superman, we may ultimately be to small to make it fan owned... at this level and at this current time. Things like this don't happen overnight and bar the feats of AFC Wimbledon we've been as successful as most in our current model (Wrexham aside this season). Halifax, FCUM, Darlington etc aren't exactly in positions far greater than we are. I think Macclesfield's chairman makes sure that if they need money it's there for them. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 13:25:31 GMT
I am constantly amazed at the people on here who hark back to the glory days of investor ownership. How has that worked out for us in the past? Eric Barnes - sold our beloved old ground and training ground piece by piece for his own personal gain, and left us with absolutely nothing to show for it Morrisons - built the council a piece of cack legoland ground in the middle of nowhere, starved our most succesful manager in ten years of funds, causing him to quit, make millions out of us on the Greyhound Park
Mark Guterman - never paid any bills leading to the manager having to pay a water bill. Ran a fleet of very expensive cars in the clubs name
Terry Smith - absolute bloody head the ball who lost us our beloved Football League status
Stephen Vaughan - started great, spent loads of drug money on carpets and a fantastic squad which got us promoted. When our 'benefactor' got gunned down by a Columbian drug cartel held a minutes silence. Used the club as a cash cow (ask anyone who worked in the cash office during this time), lost us our Football League status, then sent our beloved club into extinction twice, death by a thousand cuts, without even having the good grace to turn up at the high court to wave it off. Even having the greatest benefactor ever, Jack Walker, has lead to Blackburn eventually becoming an absolute shambles on and off the pitch, owned by an Indian chicken farmers family who have no love for Blackburn Rovers. Who is our Jack Walker? Reckon the Qatari government are interested in us? Sorry but the word investor means somebody wants a return on their initial outlay, as 4 of the 5 above did. The other was Terry Smith, who was an egomaniac clown. What we have is not perfect. Christ, watching that at Kidderminster and again the second half Saturday was as embarrassing and annoying as any game under Terry Smith (barring perhaps the Brighton home game), but our model means we will at least live to fight another day. We may well go down (with Halls, McCombs, LRT, James and Lynch in the team it is nailed on) but we will regroup, lick our wounds and maybe it will galvanise a support that has become apathetic in the extreme. Long term planning needs to take place at the club, with plans in place to improve our off the field sustainability. - We need a disabled supporters elevated dry viewing area and first floor club access
- We need a training ground with 4G facility for our own academy, first team and the additional revenue it will bring
- We need a solid financial plan based on a vision for the future. Is the FL now a ten year plan? Should we be spending all our income on the first team, or investing in making our club more attractive for people to attend with better facilities, thus growing our fan base for a future run at the FL?
I don't have all the answers, all that I know is that when we first spoke about CFC my main driver was to have a club that would be there for my sons to support like I did. Now my main concern is that this club is there for my grandchildren. To gamble this on an unknown shyster waving a bundle of 50s about to spend on one attempt at promotion before putting us into administration saying we owe him £1m in directors loans is crazy, and something that our current model is designed to prevent. We should be defending that with our very last breath. I've talked about all of this and I get slated on here Not by me pal. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 13:28:10 GMT
Some people are talking about it like having an "investor" or "owner" will be the answer to everything. Its not a guarantee for success! There a plenty of clubs above us with being investors going nowhere and plenty of teams below us in the same boat. Macc consistently have one of the smallest budgets in the league but seem to compete year on year and even got a Wembley final out of it last year. Meanwhile Eastleigh keep lashing cash at managers and players and only sit 3 places above us. The cash means nothing unless its spent well. No matter how big or small that sum maybe. In response to Superman, we may ultimately be to small to make it fan owned... at this level and at this current time. Things like this don't happen overnight and bar the feats of AFC Wimbledon we've been as successful as most in our current model (Wrexham aside this season). Halifax, FCUM, Darlington etc aren't exactly in positions far greater than we are. I think Macclesfield's chairman makes sure that if they need money it's there for them. Correct, but still a very low budget compared to most. Comparable to ours this season to be honest. The difference is that theirs is spent by a manager who has a knowledge of this league and others around it like no other, and a scouting network to match. He can also eke out the best in a player. McCarthy could not play or manage Durrell correctly, it would seem that Macc under Askey are now benefiting from this. It would also seem Askey knew that the best days of Halls, McCombs and James were long behind them. |
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Post by richard on Nov 27, 2017 13:45:24 GMT
I am constantly amazed at the people on here who hark back to the glory days of investor ownership. How has that worked out for us in the past? Eric Barnes - sold our beloved old ground and training ground piece by piece for his own personal gain, and left us with absolutely nothing to show for it Morrisons - built the council a piece of cack legoland ground in the middle of nowhere, starved our most succesful manager in ten years of funds, causing him to quit, make millions out of us on the Greyhound Park
Mark Guterman - never paid any bills leading to the manager having to pay a water bill. Ran a fleet of very expensive cars in the clubs name
Terry Smith - absolute bloody head the ball who lost us our beloved Football League status
Stephen Vaughan - started great, spent loads of drug money on carpets and a fantastic squad which got us promoted. When our 'benefactor' got gunned down by a Columbian drug cartel held a minutes silence. Used the club as a cash cow (ask anyone who worked in the cash office during this time), lost us our Football League status, then sent our beloved club into extinction twice, death by a thousand cuts, without even having the good grace to turn up at the high court to wave it off. Even having the greatest benefactor ever, Jack Walker, has lead to Blackburn eventually becoming an absolute shambles on and off the pitch, owned by an Indian chicken farmers family who have no love for Blackburn Rovers. Who is our Jack Walker? Reckon the Qatari government are interested in us? Sorry but the word investor means somebody wants a return on their initial outlay, as 4 of the 5 above did. The other was Terry Smith, who was an egomaniac clown. What we have is not perfect. Christ, watching that at Kidderminster and again the second half Saturday was as embarrassing and annoying as any game under Terry Smith (barring perhaps the Brighton home game), but our model means we will at least live to fight another day. We may well go down (with Halls, McCombs, LRT, James and Lynch in the team it is nailed on) but we will regroup, lick our wounds and maybe it will galvanise a support that has become apathetic in the extreme. Long term planning needs to take place at the club, with plans in place to improve our off the field sustainability. - We need a disabled supporters elevated dry viewing area and first floor club access
- We need a training ground with 4G facility for our own academy, first team and the additional revenue it will bring
- We need a solid financial plan based on a vision for the future. Is the FL now a ten year plan? Should we be spending all our income on the first team, or investing in making our club more attractive for people to attend with better facilities, thus growing our fan base for a future run at the FL?
I don't have all the answers, all that I know is that when we first spoke about CFC my main driver was to have a club that would be there for my sons to support like I did. Now my main concern is that this club is there for my grandchildren. To gamble this on an unknown shyster waving a bundle of 50s about to spend on one attempt at promotion before putting us into administration saying we owe him £1m in directors loans is crazy, and something that our current model is designed to prevent. We should be defending that with our very last breath. Great post. |
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Post by rossettred on Nov 27, 2017 13:48:34 GMT
We have both been stitched up over the years and have more in common than most will admit.
Fan ownership is my prefered option - we have had similar debates on RP - the question to those who want a rich investor is where are they coming from? I can't see them lining up at the Cae Ras to pump millions into the club!
The future is in our hands (the fans) full stop.
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Post by rcb on Nov 27, 2017 13:51:08 GMT
When we got to National League level I felt we were on course to become a successful mid-table team which was going to maintain a 2000+ attendance whilst growing and developing with a view to preparing for the next step towards football league status. Unfortunately, in my opinion, this has failed to materialise due to poor financial and team management since Neil Young’s departure. We ended the Conference North season with a really good squad, well capable of comfortable success at Conference level. Due to outside work commitments and National travel requirements we lost a few players which was inevitable. The rot started with Steve Burr when he increased the training commitment and thereby ousted several players and staff from Neil Young’s legacy - such was the man’s vanity! Danby went in order to bring in Burr’s pet Worsnop for example. There followed a series of over costly signings from a very limited pool of available players, caused by Burr’s system excluding any quality semi-pro players. First nail in the coffin. Got rid of Gary Jones followed by recruiting his mate McCarthy, who until then was employed outside of football. Second, third, and fourth nail in the coffin. The disastrous McCarthy contract extension was like booking the funeral service, and allowing him to spend all of a record budget has started the funeral service. I attend matches now to pay my respects to what might have been.
I hope the fans of the future get the club they want, but for me my dream is dead and it could have been avoided. We could have caught the bus instead of jumping under it.
I now await being held in contempt by the merry band of happy clappers, and of course the “I am an owner brigade” who seem all too critical and aggressive and who, in my opinion, serve to drive away many older fans.
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Post by bluefrombirth on Nov 27, 2017 13:51:09 GMT
Completely agree with the sentiments regarding retaining the 100% ownership and that of the requirement for long term infrastructure. However, those views I now believe are incompatible with the club remaining in the national league. To remain in this league we are having to throw the kitchen sink into the playing budget every season, just to stand a chance of finishing 16-20th. Any less expenditure, will almost certainly result in relegation and as we understand from the last meeting in the anchor, that will be the case next season. The question is are we brave enough to be prepared to let the club drop out of the league this season, allowing us to pay less wages and put in the work off the pitch to make the club sustainable long term. It wouldn't be a quick bounce back either I believe, but it would entice floating fans back, considering we should theoretically be winning more often and be playing more "derby" type games. If we did go down we would need to be patient, infrastructure projects take 1-3 years in a normal business, so god knows how long it would take in ours.
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Post by Deva Chanter on Nov 27, 2017 14:10:54 GMT
As I have said before, things are bad at the moment but there is no need for us to be so pessimistic about our future. Macclesfield's budget is not much bigger than ours and yet they are competing at the right end of the table year in, year out. Wrexham are a similar story - many teams have bigger budgets than them. We have to ask ourselves how they make that possible and then try and replicate it.
I am really worried that the succession of managers and board members who continuously bring up our budget as an excuse for us doing poorly is really beginning to infect the fanbase, who are in turn voting with their feet because of the staggering lack of ambition. We all know that as Chester fans we don't turn up expecting us to win titles or even very many matches, but every football fan has to be allowed to dream of what *could* happen. Constantly sending out the message that we can never really compete simply because we aren't loaded with cash is a dangerous game - it won't be long before more and more fans start questioning whether this model is viable if we continue down this path.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 14:27:19 GMT
My personal opinion is that we should be looking to survive in this League, but not at any risk to the long term future of the club. If we stay up because our manager can wheel and deal and bring younger players in for next to nothing that he can mould into a decent side, then I will be absolutely delighted. If we go down I really don't think it will be the end of the world either. If 1600 people are prepared to turn up to watch us last Saturday, with us on the telly and it being freezing, then we will retain a great portion of them in the Conf North.
The hope that we could then look to build a competitive squad, lower gate prices a bit, not have the expense of traipsing all over the south etc, and win a few games would see us at a happier club, and one that can then look to rebuild without splurging it all on 2 year deals for has beens like we have over the past 3 years. I don't know, maybe even play one or two of our own bred players? We must find our level, the one that matches our income, and then look to grow both to match our ambition.
We went too high too soon, got the fever. I am as guilty for that as anyone. But as a Chester fan I can handle watching us lose football games, what I never want to do again is lose my football club. I cannot watch anyone else, the feeling is never the same. Some of you really need to remember what them months CCFC never existed anymore felt like. Never, ever again.
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