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Post by Lobster on Nov 27, 2017 22:57:01 GMT
When we got to National League level I felt we were on course to become a successful mid-table team which was going to maintain a 2000+ attendance whilst growing and developing with a view to preparing for the next step towards football league status. Unfortunately, in my opinion, this has failed to materialise due to poor financial and team management since Neil Young’s departure. We ended the Conference North season with a really good squad, well capable of comfortable success at Conference level. Due to outside work commitments and National travel requirements we lost a few players which was inevitable. The rot started with Steve Burr when he increased the training commitment and thereby ousted several players and staff from Neil Young’s legacy - such was the man’s vanity! Danby went in order to bring in Burr’s pet Worsnop for example. There followed a series of over costly signings from a very limited pool of available players, caused by Burr’s system excluding any quality semi-pro players. First nail in the coffin. Got rid of Gary Jones followed by recruiting his mate McCarthy, who until then was employed outside of football. Second, third, and fourth nail in the coffin. The disastrous McCarthy contract extension was like booking the funeral service, and allowing him to spend all of a record budget has started the funeral service. I attend matches now to pay my respects to what might have been. I hope the fans of the future get the club they want, but for me my dream is dead and it could have been avoided. We could have caught the bus instead of jumping under it. I now await being held in contempt by the merry band of happy clappers, and of course the “I am an owner brigade” who seem all too critical and aggressive and who, in my opinion, serve to drive away many older fans. For me the rot started long before we reached the conference, or indeed conference North. The rot began after the first title win. When we went into that close season and decided to raise the admission. When we sacked off half that title winning side and brought in a load more players, when we went out and needlessly signed the like of Lee Trundle, who played a couple of games then disappeared out of sight.
That's when the board at the time took their eyes off the ball of building a sustainable, community focussed football club and went for Conference at any cost, proven with the continued admission increases we've had ever since. £18 to sit, £15 to stand basically killed any hope of attracting new supporters down to the ground.
Coupled with a succession of boards not communicating with the supporters we did have, is it any wonder why we are in this situation? I would have taken Evo Stik Premier for at least a couple of years if the pricing structure had remained at £10, but if I could see we were making real inroads at developing the infrastructure at the club, like the 3G pitches, the disabled viewing platform, the bar extension, whilst driving forward with our community work, and working on bringing kids, adults and the local community down to the ground.
We could have been challenging at the right end of the Evo-Stik/top half of the Conference North by now but at least we'd have something to bloody well show for it.
What have we got to show for the last seven years??
I would also add the FLi website and Blues Player situation to the mistakes made early on. At that stage it should really have been about getting as much freely available content out there. Sites like Twitter and YouTube boomed in the early '10s and to put our highlights and match commentaries behind a paywall was a real mistake I think. It made people think the club was going down a soulless corporate route. |
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Post by tonya on Nov 27, 2017 23:14:58 GMT
Bottom line is we all want something considerably better than we have and what we have had for the last 5 years. We did well to move up to the Conference so quickly and as fans probably believed it was some divine right for us to shoot up the tables with consecutive promotions, given our relative size and history compared to parochial clubs we were joining in the 'lower leagues'.
However for whatever reason(s) we are struggling. As a fan who doesn't live in Chester (grandparents did, though I took it upon myself to walk 3 miles to watch them when they were fighting relegation from the old Division 4)
Because there was no Internet or fans forums, unless you chose to know the details of what was going on behind the scenes, you just enjoyed the football.
The club survived and we enjoyed some great games and despite some dodgy owners (like so many clubs still) we got by. We enjoyed FA Cup runs etc and the rare promotion.
Those were undoubtedly better days on the pitch and for fans. For decades we survived and 'batted' at a higher level playing clubs our non footballing neighbours had heard of. Now we have to get our map/satnav on to find out where a team is located.
I don't know whether our current plight is related to our ownership model...probably not but I fear that if we went down and failed to come straight up we could collapse....so whatever it takes to stay up is what matters...not the ownership model.
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Post by The Angry Agenda on Nov 28, 2017 11:47:10 GMT
do not fear people coming in with money to help the club ,all it needs is someone with a love of the game that wants to be well looked after with food and drink once a fortnight at the match for a nice lump sum once a season . papers can be drawn up to give them no rights to the club its not that hard to do . Nobody these days is just going to put a decent amount of cash in, without wanting a say on how it's spent. Even as a fan I'd personally not just give money to the club without wanting control over it, especially when I've seen how we've wasted money over the years, since we reformed. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2017 13:03:19 GMT
do not fear people coming in with money to help the club ,all it needs is someone with a love of the game that wants to be well looked after with food and drink once a fortnight at the match for a nice lump sum once a season . papers can be drawn up to give them no rights to the club its not that hard to do . Even as a fan I'd personally not just give money to the club without wanting control over it, especially when I've seen how we've wasted money over the years, since we reformed forever. I have amended that for you. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Nov 28, 2017 14:36:07 GMT
For Christ's sake, it ain't gonna be perfect but it'll be OUR imperfect football club. That's all we need to know surely?
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Post by rcb on Nov 28, 2017 18:13:16 GMT
For Christ's sake, it ain't gonna be perfect but it'll be OUR imperfect football club. That's all we need to know surely? There goes that attitude again. “OUR”. For a small band of blind followers that may be the case, but unfortunately that is not the case for far too many, and indeed many fans have already deserted in large numbers. They are not prepared to accept unnecessary imperfections. If you want a little club, way down the leagues from where you are now, then continued hostility towards other potential fans every time they express an opinion is the way to go. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Nov 28, 2017 18:34:18 GMT
Why on earth would you take offence to the term "our"? "Our" means everybody - you, me, the kid who goes home and away every week without fail, the woman who sees us four times a season, the bloke who hasn't been since 2008. Every one of us. I want a club that exists for all of those people, and more, and I believe the best (best, not only) way we can guarantee that is with our current ownership model.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2017 18:37:59 GMT
Not being presumptuous but I think he meant OUR as in public hands, as opposed to the plaything of a private owner.
I completely agree with his statement. It isnt perfect, big mistakes have and will be made, but we are in charge of our own destiny.
Many of those who have walked away recently because we have been losing games will return when we start winning again. Some wont. It is the nature of being a small club.
We used to get sub 1000 gates in Div 4 in 1982. Three years later we won promotion and 3800 turn up for what are looked on by many as glory days.
Im happy to ride out the bad years for they make the good ones taste so much sweeter when they come. If you choose to walk away then I respect your choice.
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Post by rcb on Nov 28, 2017 18:50:46 GMT
Why on earth would you take offence to the term "our"? "Our" means everybody - you, me, the kid who goes home and away every week without fail, the woman who sees us four times a season, the bloke who hasn't been since 2008. Every one of us. I want a club that exists for all of those people, and more, and I believe the best (best, not only) way we can guarantee that is with our current ownership model. ...because you chose to use a personal pronoun in upper case thereby differentiating it from the standard form. |
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Post by agl on Nov 28, 2017 19:04:12 GMT
Some rose tinted spectacles being worn here. We had sh!t players and wasters when we were properly part time - Jamie Rainford anyone?
Yes, we got loads wrong but I will cherish the three championship winning seasons. After years watching us struggle (with a couple of exceptions) it was a joy to watch winning football for a change. FC United away at Bury, thrashing Skem at home, drawing at home to Vics to win the league....great times.
Arguably we are now only witnessing what we've endured for most seasons in our long history. How can anyone say for sure that we would have grown organically any better...interest could have waned, crowds fallen away if we'd been marooned in EvoStik Premier or Conference North.
Too many people on here who do f-all for the club but sit behind keyboards sniping at those who have got off their arses. Easy to be wise after the event now we are struggling in the big boys league rather than being the big fish. There was nothing wrong with setting a target of getting back to national rather than regional leagues and how could anyone possibly set an exact budget to achieve that? Of course it came at a cost but not any cost as some suggest - we have a decent youth set up, we are in the black, our destiny is in our own hands not those of some crook...no-one said it was going to be easy.
And BTW we still get better crowds than Macc.
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Post by agl on Nov 28, 2017 19:15:04 GMT
When we got to National League level I felt we were on course to become a successful mid-table team which was going to maintain a 2000+ attendance whilst growing and developing with a view to preparing for the next step towards football league status. Unfortunately, in my opinion, this has failed to materialise due to poor financial and team management since Neil Young’s departure. We ended the Conference North season with a really good squad, well capable of comfortable success at Conference level. Due to outside work commitments and National travel requirements we lost a few players which was inevitable. The rot started with Steve Burr when he increased the training commitment and thereby ousted several players and staff from Neil Young’s legacy - such was the man’s vanity! Danby went in order to bring in Burr’s pet Worsnop for example. There followed a series of over costly signings from a very limited pool of available players, caused by Burr’s system excluding any quality semi-pro players. First nail in the coffin. Got rid of Gary Jones followed by recruiting his mate McCarthy, who until then was employed outside of football. Second, third, and fourth nail in the coffin. The disastrous McCarthy contract extension was like booking the funeral service, and allowing him to spend all of a record budget has started the funeral service. I attend matches now to pay my respects to what might have been. I hope the fans of the future get the club they want, but for me my dream is dead and it could have been avoided. We could have caught the bus instead of jumping under it. I now await being held in contempt by the merry band of happy clappers, and of course the “I am an owner brigade” who seem all too critical and aggressive and who, in my opinion, serve to drive away many older fans. For me the rot started long before we reached the conference, or indeed conference North. The rot began after the first title win. When we went into that close season and decided to raise the admission. When we sacked off half that title winning side and brought in a load more players, when we went out and needlessly signed the like of Lee Trundle, who played a couple of games then disappeared out of sight.
That's when the board at the time took their eyes off the ball of building a sustainable, community focussed football club and went for Conference at any cost, proven with the continued admission increases we've had ever since. £18 to sit, £15 to stand basically killed any hope of attracting new supporters down to the ground.
Coupled with a succession of boards not communicating with the supporters we did have, is it any wonder why we are in this situation? I would have taken Evo Stik Premier for at least a couple of years if the pricing structure had remained at £10, but if I could see we were making real inroads at developing the infrastructure at the club, like the 3G pitches, the disabled viewing platform, the bar extension, whilst driving forward with our community work, and working on bringing kids, adults and the local community down to the ground.
We could have been challenging at the right end of the Evo-Stik/top half of the Conference North by now but at least we'd have something to bloody well show for it.
What have we got to show for the last seven years??
Er, three title winning squads, beating our neighbours in their own back yard, selling a youth team player to a Premier League team...need I go on. This is reminiscent of Python's 'What have the Romans done for us?' |
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Post by rcb on Nov 28, 2017 19:46:21 GMT
Some rose tinted spectacles being worn here. We had sh!t players and wasters when we were properly part time - Jamie Rainford anyone? Yes, we got loads wrong but I will cherish the three championship winning seasons. After years watching us struggle (with a couple of exceptions) it was a joy to watch winning football for a change. FC United away at Bury, thrashing Skem at home, drawing at home to Vics to win the league....great times. Arguably we are now only witnessing what we've endured for most seasons in our long history. How can anyone say for sure that we would have grown organically any better...interest could have waned, crowds fallen away if we'd been marooned in EvoStik Premier or Conference North. Too many people on here who do f-all for the club but sit behind keyboards sniping at those who have got off their arses. Easy to be wise after the event now we are struggling in the big boys league rather than being the big fish. There was nothing wrong with setting a target of getting back to national rather than regional leagues and how could anyone possibly set an exact budget to achieve that? Of course it came at a cost but not any cost as some suggest - we have a decent youth set up, we are in the black, our destiny is in our own hands not those of some crook...no-one said it was going to be easy. And BTW we still get better crowds than Macc. Yet another derogatory remark targeting what is presumed as a “lesser” supporter. Why do you feel superior because, in your words, you got off your arse. People are concerned. i.e. they show interest, so why drive them away? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2017 20:01:29 GMT
Great posts agl. So easy to snipe from the sides. If people feel distanced from the club they should approach the club and ask about ways they could get involved and maybe develop an attachment they dont feel.
I keep hearing about people who are walking away because it is so bad, when all I see is people using supporter ownership as an excuse not to go to games because we lose more than we win.
As above, we win a few games and those missing 500 return. And woe betide we get to the FA Trophy final....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2017 20:08:23 GMT
Sorry to say folks but this thread has developed into almost exactly the same as any other "ownership" thread over the last 6/12/18/24 months and, I suspect, any future "ownership" thread in the next 6/12/18/24 months or whenever things are not going well.
I don't think it we'll ever resolve it to everyone's satisfaction.
But, it does beg the question as to WHY the subject continues to rear it's head.
In my humble view, it may be because people are unsure of:
- what exact type of club do we really aspire to be feel detached from the debate
- what strategy is in place to meet our objectives (not soundbites or throwaway comments)
- who is tasked and therefore responsible for implementing "the plan" (if there is one)
- the old chestnut of letting the average fan know what's going on REGULARLY
Etc etc etc
In short, if we're a bit rudderless, then discontent and speculation will become the norm which in turn boils over in tough times as evidenced recently.
I might be totally wrong in my view but I'm very much of the view that "if you don't know where you're going, you'll never get there". I.e a decent plan/strategy, well communicated would help unite the club and at least provide a platform for the future
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Post by agl on Nov 28, 2017 20:08:51 GMT
Some rose tinted spectacles being worn here. We had sh!t players and wasters when we were properly part time - Jamie Rainford anyone? Yes, we got loads wrong but I will cherish the three championship winning seasons. After years watching us struggle (with a couple of exceptions) it was a joy to watch winning football for a change. FC United away at Bury, thrashing Skem at home, drawing at home to Vics to win the league....great times. Arguably we are now only witnessing what we've endured for most seasons in our long history. How can anyone say for sure that we would have grown organically any better...interest could have waned, crowds fallen away if we'd been marooned in EvoStik Premier or Conference North. Too many people on here who do f-all for the club but sit behind keyboards sniping at those who have got off their arses. Easy to be wise after the event now we are struggling in the big boys league rather than being the big fish. There was nothing wrong with setting a target of getting back to national rather than regional leagues and how could anyone possibly set an exact budget to achieve that? Of course it came at a cost but not any cost as some suggest - we have a decent youth set up, we are in the black, our destiny is in our own hands not those of some crook...no-one said it was going to be easy. And BTW we still get better crowds than Macc. Yet another derogatory remark targeting what is presumed as a “lesser” supporter. Why do you feel superior because, in your words, you got off your arse. People are concerned. i.e. they show interest, so why drive them away? Lesser - your interpretation not mine. Nerve touched? And for the record I would include myself among those who hasn't got off his arse but respects those who have and tries to support them despite the mistakes they make. So no reason to feel superior to anyone as you wrongly assume |
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Post by Al on Nov 28, 2017 21:00:08 GMT
For me the rot started long before we reached the conference, or indeed conference North. The rot began after the first title win. When we went into that close season and decided to raise the admission. When we sacked off half that title winning side and brought in a load more players, when we went out and needlessly signed the like of Lee Trundle, who played a couple of games then disappeared out of sight.
That's when the board at the time took their eyes off the ball of building a sustainable, community focussed football club and went for Conference at any cost, proven with the continued admission increases we've had ever since. £18 to sit, £15 to stand basically killed any hope of attracting new supporters down to the ground.
Coupled with a succession of boards not communicating with the supporters we did have, is it any wonder why we are in this situation? I would have taken Evo Stik Premier for at least a couple of years if the pricing structure had remained at £10, but if I could see we were making real inroads at developing the infrastructure at the club, like the 3G pitches, the disabled viewing platform, the bar extension, whilst driving forward with our community work, and working on bringing kids, adults and the local community down to the ground.
We could have been challenging at the right end of the Evo-Stik/top half of the Conference North by now but at least we'd have something to bloody well show for it.
What have we got to show for the last seven years??
Er, three title winning squads, beating our neighbours in their own back yard, selling a youth team player to a Premier League team...need I go on. This is reminiscent of Python's 'What have the Romans done for us?' Not really. 3 title winning squads in three l years. It's a shame that off the field success couldn't keep up with on the field success. I said it at the time, that we were moving too fast, a number of us did actually and we're promptly shouted down particularly over the increases in admission which in my view were abhorrent and completely against the values of a fully inclusive, community football club. Priority should have always been about developing the club's off the field facilities whilst continuing to develop the youth team. A smaller budget used in the playing squad and maximising our income through all the fundraising initiatives we have talked about and sent to the club for the past 7yrs. Don't assume that we just sit in front of our keyboards either slagging the club off. I've volunteered down there before, and until my partner became ill earlier in the year I applied for co-option to the board, met the then chairman Alan Povey etc. I would have loved nothing more than to be involved and do all the things I've said about on here around marketing the bloody club correctly like it bloody should have been all those years ago. |
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Post by rcb on Nov 28, 2017 21:05:06 GMT
Perhaps in previous years the “Sh!t” players have been recognised and shipped out, unlike what has happened over the past two or three years when they have been rewarded by new contracts. Mind you, the same happened with the manager.
We didn’t have to handsomely pay off Neil Young, unlike the next two parasites.
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