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Post by Al on Nov 27, 2017 14:33:39 GMT
When we got to National League level I felt we were on course to become a successful mid-table team which was going to maintain a 2000+ attendance whilst growing and developing with a view to preparing for the next step towards football league status. Unfortunately, in my opinion, this has failed to materialise due to poor financial and team management since Neil Young’s departure. We ended the Conference North season with a really good squad, well capable of comfortable success at Conference level. Due to outside work commitments and National travel requirements we lost a few players which was inevitable. The rot started with Steve Burr when he increased the training commitment and thereby ousted several players and staff from Neil Young’s legacy - such was the man’s vanity! Danby went in order to bring in Burr’s pet Worsnop for example. There followed a series of over costly signings from a very limited pool of available players, caused by Burr’s system excluding any quality semi-pro players. First nail in the coffin. Got rid of Gary Jones followed by recruiting his mate McCarthy, who until then was employed outside of football. Second, third, and fourth nail in the coffin. The disastrous McCarthy contract extension was like booking the funeral service, and allowing him to spend all of a record budget has started the funeral service. I attend matches now to pay my respects to what might have been. I hope the fans of the future get the club they want, but for me my dream is dead and it could have been avoided. We could have caught the bus instead of jumping under it. I now await being held in contempt by the merry band of happy clappers, and of course the “I am an owner brigade” who seem all too critical and aggressive and who, in my opinion, serve to drive away many older fans. For me the rot started long before we reached the conference, or indeed conference North. The rot began after the first title win. When we went into that close season and decided to raise the admission. When we sacked off half that title winning side and brought in a load more players, when we went out and needlessly signed the like of Lee Trundle, who played a couple of games then disappeared out of sight.
That's when the board at the time took their eyes off the ball of building a sustainable, community focussed football club and went for Conference at any cost, proven with the continued admission increases we've had ever since. £18 to sit, £15 to stand basically killed any hope of attracting new supporters down to the ground.
Coupled with a succession of boards not communicating with the supporters we did have, is it any wonder why we are in this situation? I would have taken Evo Stik Premier for at least a couple of years if the pricing structure had remained at £10, but if I could see we were making real inroads at developing the infrastructure at the club, like the 3G pitches, the disabled viewing platform, the bar extension, whilst driving forward with our community work, and working on bringing kids, adults and the local community down to the ground.
We could have been challenging at the right end of the Evo-Stik/top half of the Conference North by now but at least we'd have something to bloody well show for it.
What have we got to show for the last seven years??
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Post by shango on Nov 27, 2017 14:46:14 GMT
Tbh i'd prefer to watch a bunch of part timer's play for us that actually play because they want to rather than 'pro's' who jog around and might poke a foot out to win a tackle every so often.
I'm not saying Evo Stik is full of world beater's but i believe that most of those lad's play for the team/shirt more than lazy pro's after a few soft quid.I'm sure we've all felt fleeced by this lot at some point?
Enjoyed watching Michael Wilde and Simmo etc far more than most of our conference player's.
Going down will not be the end of the world for me.
For all the slating of everything at the club,are we not still on a massive learning curve?
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Nov 27, 2017 14:56:33 GMT
Agreed with most of these statements.
I am old enough to remember the early 80's, when we were under private ownership and were on the 'bones of our arse', with a team equally as dire, as this one.
It is not the supporter ownership model that is the problem, but the squandering of a highly competitive budget, on a team well past its sell by date.
Macclesfield are riding high on a similar budget to ours.
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Post by league2 on Nov 27, 2017 15:48:45 GMT
what have we got to show for the last seven years 3 league titles......., but with this model we have come as far as we can go.as for macclesfield they are backed by a multi million pound backer in the Bianchi family who im sure look after them well. unless you are getting crowds of say 4 to 5000 the model do not work at this level , you need to be competitive to keep the fans onside and without cash you simply cannot in this league. everyone i speak to at the match and in the bars say the same we need a backer . i know most on here are dead against a backer but there are a few thousand fans out there who would love to see money put in to make us competitive again. you can try all the things you want but the only way to get fans to attend games is by having a winning team and that costs
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Post by Hannibal on Nov 27, 2017 15:59:23 GMT
I think Macclesfield's chairman makes sure that if they need money it's there for them. Correct, but still a very low budget compared to most. Comparable to ours this season to be honest. The difference is that theirs is spent by a manager who has a knowledge of this league and others around it like no other, and a scouting network to match. He can also eke out the best in a player. McCarthy could not play or manage Durrell correctly, it would seem that Macc under Askey are now benefiting from this. It would also seem Askey knew that the best days of Halls, McCombs and James were long behind them. Couldn't have put that better Mark. I would also add that they maximise money from cup runs, whereas we've we have had one moderate FA Cup run and one FA Trophy run up to this our 8th season. I also (not completely sure) believe that Macclesfield run a reserve team. I would imagine their governance (board) are more able than ours too. |
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Post by waggoner on Nov 27, 2017 16:07:22 GMT
what have we got to show for the last seven years 3 league titles......., but with this model we have come as far as we can go.as for macclesfield they are backed by a multi million pound backer in the Bianchi family who im sure look after them well. unless you are getting crowds of say 4 to 5000 the model do not work at this level , you need to be competitive to keep the fans onside and without cash you simply cannot in this league. everyone i speak to at the match and in the bars say the same we need a backer . i know most on here are dead against a backer but there are a few thousand fans out there who would love to see money put in to make us competitive again. you can try all the things you want but the only way to get fans to attend games is by having a winning team and that costs Wasting your time mate. Loads on here are happy to watch mediocre shite in an empty ground. We need a difference approach to grow. I am not saying sell to the first person who wants to be a football club owner. What i am saying is that we should be open to listening if someone wanted to invest for a % of the club. IF just say i won £20m on the lottery and came to the club offering to buy 50% of it for £5m with the fans owning 50% would the fans say ''fook that we like playing in national league north in front of 600 people?'' One day someone will come and will offer to invest for some say in the club. When they are turned down because of the wish of the minority to stay fan owned do you think that the last of the non CFU fans will continue to come? i doubt it! Of course this is all conjecture, but it does raise a question of whether we should put some of the club for sale..maybe a share issue or something |
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Post by Hannibal on Nov 27, 2017 16:08:22 GMT
what have we got to show for the last seven years 3 league titles......., but with this model we have come as far as we can go.as for macclesfield they are backed by a multi million pound backer in the Bianchi family who im sure look after them well. unless you are getting crowds of say 4 to 5000 the model do not work at this level , you need to be competitive to keep the fans onside and without cash you simply cannot in this league. everyone i speak to at the match and in the bars say the same we need a backer . i know most on here are dead against a backer but there are a few thousand fans out there who would love to see money put in to make us competitive again. you can try all the things you want but the only way to get fans to attend games is by having a winning team and that costs I think Arighi Bianchi sponsor Macclesfield, but I'd be surprised if they put in as much money as MBNA do us. I think we had a competitive budget this season, but it was completely misspent on overpaid journeymen in an unbalanced squad. That argument has been done to death. |
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Post by league2 on Nov 27, 2017 16:39:58 GMT
I might be mistaken but I'm sure I heard at the meeting on Thursday that we have the smallest budget in this league and only midway in the league below
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Post by Hannibal on Nov 27, 2017 16:55:49 GMT
Woking have allegedly got a smaller budget than us but it didn't make much difference when they won their 8th consecutive game against us last month.
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Post by bluboy79 on Nov 27, 2017 17:00:04 GMT
I am certain we were told that the budget was around mid table at an earlier CFU meeting .....why is it now the worst in the league ? Also how do we know what other teams budgets are ?
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Post by richard on Nov 27, 2017 17:01:20 GMT
what have we got to show for the last seven years 3 league titles......., but with this model we have come as far as we can go.as for macclesfield they are backed by a multi million pound backer in the Bianchi family who im sure look after them well. unless you are getting crowds of say 4 to 5000 the model do not work at this level , you need to be competitive to keep the fans onside and without cash you simply cannot in this league. everyone i speak to at the match and in the bars say the same we need a backer . i know most on here are dead against a backer but there are a few thousand fans out there who would love to see money put in to make us competitive again. you can try all the things you want but the only way to get fans to attend games is by having a winning team and that costs Wasting your time mate. Loads on here are happy to watch mediocre shite in an empty ground. We need a difference approach to grow. I am not saying sell to the first person who wants to be a football club owner. What i am saying is that we should be open to listening if someone wanted to invest for a % of the club. IF just say i won £20m on the lottery and came to the club offering to buy 50% of it for £5m with the fans owning 50% would the fans say ''fook that we like playing in national league north in front of 600 people?'' One day someone will come and will offer to invest for some say in the club. When they are turned down because of the wish of the minority to stay fan owned do you think that the last of the non CFU fans will continue to come? i doubt it! Of course this is all conjecture, but it does raise a question of whether we should put some of the club for sale..maybe a share issue or something No chance Waggoner. Not for sale. I would rather watch us play at a sustainable level, dare I say even if it was at a lower level than we presently play at in order to retain full ownership. Not even a small percentage should be considered as an option. Exeter went down that route and even though the Supporters nationally remained as majority owners, they effectively lost control. We may have reached a ceiling in being able to compete financially and I fully agree that things are not great at the moment, but things can get better, even if we go down. NWAS has already given solid reasons for the retention of the model, so further elaboration is pointless, save to say that we are back where we were when CCFC folded. That is no mean achievement, even if all the successes came early. We may well be relegated, but it won't be the end of the world. |
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Post by Deva Chanter on Nov 27, 2017 17:09:24 GMT
I am certain we were told that the budget was around mid table at an earlier CFU meeting .....why is it now the worst in the league ? Also how do we know what other teams budgets are ? It isn't. All budgets have to be sent to the National League at the beginning of the season so it becomes fairly common knowledge amongst clubs who is spending what. From memory, our budget certainly wasn't the smallest but it was near the bottom four. |
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Post by rcb on Nov 27, 2017 17:17:06 GMT
Wasting your time mate. Loads on here are happy to watch mediocre shite in an empty ground. We need a difference approach to grow. I am not saying sell to the first person who wants to be a football club owner. What i am saying is that we should be open to listening if someone wanted to invest for a % of the club. IF just say i won £20m on the lottery and came to the club offering to buy 50% of it for £5m with the fans owning 50% would the fans say ''fook that we like playing in national league north in front of 600 people?'' One day someone will come and will offer to invest for some say in the club. When they are turned down because of the wish of the minority to stay fan owned do you think that the last of the non CFU fans will continue to come? i doubt it! Of course this is all conjecture, but it does raise a question of whether we should put some of the club for sale..maybe a share issue or something No chance Waggoner. Not for sale. I would rather watch us play at a sustainable level, dare I say even if it was at a lower level than we presently play at in order to retain full ownership. Not even a small percentage should be considered as an option. Exeter went down that route and even though the Supporters nationally remained as majority owners, they effectively lost control. We may have reached a ceiling in being able to compete financially and I fully agree that things are not great at the moment, but things can get better, even if we go down. NWAS has already given solid reasons for the retention of the model, so further elaboration is pointless, save to say that we are back where we were when CCFC folded. That is no mean achievement, even if all the successes came early. We may well be relegated, but it won't be the end of the world. Your opinion and obvious dedication to the fan owned model are to be admired. We have rarely seen eye to eye, but with hindsight would you say we should be in a far better league position given this Summers’s budget, and the reason we are not is ultimately that extended contract given to McCarthy? |
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Post by Captain Duff on Nov 27, 2017 17:34:46 GMT
Your opinion and obvious dedication to the fan owned model are to be admired. We have rarely seen eye to eye, but with hindsight would you say we should be in a far better league position given this Summers’s budget, and the reason we are not is ultimately that extended contract given to McCarthy? Yes, quite probably. We would have been in a far better place if Vaughan snr hadn't made that fat thug Vaughan jnr a first team player and our captain a decade ago. We would have been in a far better place had terry the Clown not had defense and offense captains (and all the rest) before that. Crap happens, people make mistakes, hindsight is wonderful, but currently we can change the people in charge of the club if they mess up, back then we couldn't - THAT is the difference, and it is worth fighting for. |
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Post by richard on Nov 27, 2017 17:48:41 GMT
No chance Waggoner. Not for sale. I would rather watch us play at a sustainable level, dare I say even if it was at a lower level than we presently play at in order to retain full ownership. Not even a small percentage should be considered as an option. Exeter went down that route and even though the Supporters nationally remained as majority owners, they effectively lost control. We may have reached a ceiling in being able to compete financially and I fully agree that things are not great at the moment, but things can get better, even if we go down. NWAS has already given solid reasons for the retention of the model, so further elaboration is pointless, save to say that we are back where we were when CCFC folded. That is no mean achievement, even if all the successes came early. We may well be relegated, but it won't be the end of the world. Your opinion and obvious dedication to the fan owned model are to be admired. We have rarely seen eye to eye, but with hindsight would you say we should be in a far better league position given this Summers’s budget, and the reason we are not is ultimately that extended contract given to McCarthy? With the luxury of hindsight, I would agree with you. At the time, I thought it was the right decision and I also thought the summer acquisitions were capable of much more than has proved to be the case. I was clearly wrong. That said, my opinions of the model as a precious asset remains firm. From the beginning, it was clear that we would make mistakes and we have. I genuinely don't blame anyone, decisions have to be made and in the inexact science that is football, it's inevitable. I hope as a club we can learn from our mistakes, often made with the best of intentions and avoid repeating them. |
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Post by chrizzyp on Nov 27, 2017 17:48:58 GMT
i dont think the fan ownership is working anymore
we need investment from other places, i think we should sell up our shares
if it fails we can always start again
i will be there week in week out still supporting whatever the team name maybe!!!
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Post by Wortleyblue on Nov 27, 2017 17:52:58 GMT
i dont think the fan ownership is working anymore we need investment from other places, i think we should sell up our shares if it fails we can always start againi will be there week in week out still supporting whatever the team name maybe!!! I doubt that would happen if this club goes tits up that will be it I'm afraid we need to stick with this model tweak it somewhat and in time who knows go down the other route and its almost certainly the begining of the end |
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Post by devadiva on Nov 27, 2017 18:26:53 GMT
Isn’t the point that it’s a number of variables that is important - sure you need a good budget but you need to spend it wisely, extract the best from what you buy, have a professional club organisation and have a bit of luck.
What worries me is that we have no youngsters coming through that will get us any more Sam Hughes type money and gates are plummeting. So MB being able to spend what McC had this summer looks highly unlikely .... oh the folly of letting McC stay beyond the end of last season and blow a decent budget on past it players from whom he extracted nothing!
This thread assumes there’s a choice between fan ownership and sugar daddy. I’m not sure there is as on any analysis, we can’t be a very appealing investment at the moment or in the near future.
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Post by Captain Duff on Nov 27, 2017 18:36:25 GMT
i dont think the fan ownership is working anymore we need investment from other places, i think we should sell up our shares if it fails we can always start again i will be there week in week out still supporting whatever the team name maybe!!! I really hope you are a young kid, otherwise there is no excuse at all for a post as daft as that. Start again? Really? Where would that be then, in a park somewhere, because you can be sure the council (or whoever the new failed owner owes debts to) won't let as have the current stadium back again. Nor will there be the same level of enthusiasm and experience from prospective board members like we had in 2010 where people worked miracles to ensure that the club didn't miss a season, where MBNA seconded Steve Ashton to work full time for us and who made a huge difference, but that won't be repeated by MBNA you can be sure). There will be no starting again. There will be no shares sold (they can't be, it is illegal under the industrial provident society regulations, only a vote of members, one vote per owner, can wind up the society to enable someone else to step in and own the club). But who did you have in mind to buy is anyway? I remember in 2010 there wasn't a queue to buy the club from Vaughan was there, which is why it went tits up. Even then what was there, some dodgy syndicate from Norway or wherever they were? What would we get this time, a Russian oligarch do you think, or what Hereford had to deal with when they went bust (and kept is in this league) in the form of dodgy wide boy Tommy Agombar - because his ilk are the likely type of 'owner' we would get at this level and where washing money was the main aim. The thing about footy fans is that we are meant to know our history, to have it flowing in our blood, written in our heart. We should know every success, remember every failure, every betrayal, because if you don't know your history it's enough to make your heart go woah-oh as the chant goes. Learn yours chrizzp, please learn it. |
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Post by league2 on Nov 27, 2017 19:37:10 GMT
There is a big difference between ownership and a backer who just wants to be wined and dined once a fortnight and watch a team win more often than not
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Post by adrianh on Nov 27, 2017 20:02:14 GMT
There is a big difference between ownership and a backer who just wants to be wined and dined once a fortnight and watch a team win more often than not Thats perfectly possible now with the current setup ie. Legends lounge hospitality and sponsorship or donation. What worries me is that we’re being primed for something else. |
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Post by Al on Nov 27, 2017 20:06:30 GMT
There is a big difference between ownership and a backer who just wants to be wined and dined once a fortnight and watch a team win more often than not You really are living in a dreamworld if you think someone is going to pump millions into the club just to be wined and dined once a fortnight. Unbelievable Jeff! |
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Post by league2 on Nov 27, 2017 20:20:32 GMT
There is a big difference between ownership and a backer who just wants to be wined and dined once a fortnight and watch a team win more often than not You really are living in a dreamworld if you think someone is going to pump millions into the club just to be wined and dined once a fortnight. Unbelievable Jeff! who said millions lol |
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Post by sirfred on Nov 27, 2017 20:27:31 GMT
If I won euro millions I would pump money in in exchange for being wined and dined but it would have to be a different female each time under 50 and attractive
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Post by Imperial on Nov 27, 2017 20:43:35 GMT
If I won euro millions I would pump money in in exchange for being wined and dined but it would have to be a different female each time under 50 and attractive If you’d won the euromillions you could afford to be a bit choosier than “under 50”. |
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Post by sirfred on Nov 27, 2017 20:49:19 GMT
If I won euro millions I would pump money in in exchange for being wined and dined but it would have to be a different female each time under 50 and attractive If you’d won the euromillions you could afford to be a bit choosier than “under 50”. I may have a mature fetish though |
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Post by spencerwhelanleftpeg on Nov 27, 2017 21:57:08 GMT
When we got to National League level I felt we were on course to become a successful mid-table team which was going to maintain a 2000+ attendance whilst growing and developing with a view to preparing for the next step towards football league status. Unfortunately, in my opinion, this has failed to materialise due to poor financial and team management since Neil Young’s departure. We ended the Conference North season with a really good squad, well capable of comfortable success at Conference level. Due to outside work commitments and National travel requirements we lost a few players which was inevitable. The rot started with Steve Burr when he increased the training commitment and thereby ousted several players and staff from Neil Young’s legacy - such was the man’s vanity! Danby went in order to bring in Burr’s pet Worsnop for example. There followed a series of over costly signings from a very limited pool of available players, caused by Burr’s system excluding any quality semi-pro players. First nail in the coffin. Got rid of Gary Jones followed by recruiting his mate McCarthy, who until then was employed outside of football. Second, third, and fourth nail in the coffin. The disastrous McCarthy contract extension was like booking the funeral service, and allowing him to spend all of a record budget has started the funeral service. I attend matches now to pay my respects to what might have been. I hope the fans of the future get the club they want, but for me my dream is dead and it could have been avoided. We could have caught the bus instead of jumping under it. I now await being held in contempt by the merry band of happy clappers, and of course the “I am an owner brigade” who seem all too critical and aggressive and who, in my opinion, serve to drive away many older fans. What I found astounding RCB was when I suggested at an away game that our predicament was due to The incompetence of the board. Failing to act last April etc. Some looked at me as if I’m absolutely bananas and completely off my rocker. This I still Find hard to take and unbelievable. Sadly the board have already or if not already are slowly killing the dream. |
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Post by rcb on Nov 27, 2017 22:06:46 GMT
When we got to National League level I felt we were on course to become a successful mid-table team which was going to maintain a 2000+ attendance whilst growing and developing with a view to preparing for the next step towards football league status. Unfortunately, in my opinion, this has failed to materialise due to poor financial and team management since Neil Young’s departure. We ended the Conference North season with a really good squad, well capable of comfortable success at Conference level. Due to outside work commitments and National travel requirements we lost a few players which was inevitable. The rot started with Steve Burr when he increased the training commitment and thereby ousted several players and staff from Neil Young’s legacy - such was the man’s vanity! Danby went in order to bring in Burr’s pet Worsnop for example. There followed a series of over costly signings from a very limited pool of available players, caused by Burr’s system excluding any quality semi-pro players. First nail in the coffin. Got rid of Gary Jones followed by recruiting his mate McCarthy, who until then was employed outside of football. Second, third, and fourth nail in the coffin. The disastrous McCarthy contract extension was like booking the funeral service, and allowing him to spend all of a record budget has started the funeral service. I attend matches now to pay my respects to what might have been. I hope the fans of the future get the club they want, but for me my dream is dead and it could have been avoided. We could have caught the bus instead of jumping under it. I now await being held in contempt by the merry band of happy clappers, and of course the “I am an owner brigade” who seem all too critical and aggressive and who, in my opinion, serve to drive away many older fans. What I found astounding RCB was when I suggested at an away game that our predicament was due to The incompetence of the board. Failing to act last April etc. Some looked at me as if I’m absolutely bananas and completely off my rocker. This I still Find hard to take and unbelievable. Sadly the board have already or if not already are slowly killing the dream. ...and seeing your club dream being killed makes it inappropriate to say I told you so. Sadly no winners this time. |
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Post by spencerwhelanleftpeg on Nov 27, 2017 22:26:57 GMT
I’m sorry to bang on about this but those who
Supposedly care and are in positions of responsibility.
Have quite obviously got things horribly wrong.
It’s not a small error or blip but hurrendous completely avoidable mistakes. We are were we are because of this.
I find it extremely frustrating. Like us all, I am not asking for the earth but to run sensibly in the best interests of the club is clearly asking far too much. It is that which makes me sad and angry.
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Post by sqzl on Nov 27, 2017 22:29:52 GMT
Our attendances are poor for a city like Chester, always have been. Particularly bad so far this season and will continue to decrease of we don't win matches. I don't honestly think the majority of the city care at all about the football team and ever will. Personally can't ever see attendances above a 2500 average in the future either.
We also have no possibility of progression, which is what draws people into football, like it or not. If you say to someone were hoping to get near the playoffs this season or were pretty much nailed on to finish 14-16th which sounds more enjoyable to watch to a neutral? We keep going back to Macclesfield as an example, they're totally different. They are better run, better managed and have been streets ahead of us for years. I envy them slightly to be honest, fantastic manager and a real feel good factor around them, but they do have a chairman willing to back them if ever necessary! Only thing we have in common is our playing budgets.
I'm neither for or against any ownership methods, I'm happy supporting Chester in the national league, even the national north of it comes to that, but I think it's easy to see and forgive people that were born after the days of Gutterman etc thinking an owner is the way forward. The next generation of fans don't have the experience of poor ownership, to them they want success on the field and it's not happening. It's also worth noting that not every chairman in football is a crook. I honestly think relegation for us this season would make it nearly
Impossible to ever consider Football League again.
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