BREXIT

If I had my way we'd be gone already. As soon as Barnier started with the totally ridiculous demands we should have called his bluff. Trade is a two-way deal and the undemocratic EU need our trade as much as we need them. 

Surely any vote would have to be open to all Irish people?

I think Ireland is a special case,

It has been one country for all but a hundred years of it's history. 

I think Derry sees it purely as a vote between oranges and limes and I'm guessing the oranges are in the majority.

It's time they began to get on with each other.

It always makes me laugh,when Brexiteers state that the E.U needs us more than we need them. A market of 350 million vs a market of 60 million speaks for its self. Brexit will relegate the UK into the second division of countries alongside Norway etc .. An International irrelevance, sustained only by its inflated view of its importance. You only have to look at how the useless May was treated at the G20. at the arse end of the agenda to witness our shrinking world role. Lol

My God, you should have been writing the scripts for Project Fear - they were ridiculous but now we're going to be like Albania.  You're not going to convince any Brexiteer to change to your point of view with daft suggestions like that.

Clearly they dont need us as much do they? The EU are 100% united not least over the issue of the border. Whilst the Tory Cabinet has never been more disunited. They cant agree any Brexit policy because they are fighting like rabbits in a sack and my comments make you dispair? Lol

That’s some chip on that shoulder, fellah.

Are you saying that Ken Clarke doesn't behave like that, that the Lib-Dem lords don't behave like that? And how come there are so many Lib-Dem lords for such a small party. are you saying that Macron/Merkel don't have the dominant voice in the EU. Just 'cos I dare not to agree with the lefty, pro EU lovies on this site doesn't mean I have a chip on my shoulder. I haven't noticed you say that to the posters who constantly attack May, who use words like Brexshit, etc

I did say it's probably an exaggeration. In truth, I'm not sure there is a existing comparison to a post-Brexit UK in Europe, since all the other non-EU countries have strong, independent economies of their own, are underdeveloped, or are microstates. It's an unknown situation.

Disgraceful!
People struggling day-to-day and that's what you say?

People like you are why i voted to leave

I don't think it's funny at all. People were lied to. Boris Johnson is such a worm with the way he tries to play the popularist card. He does not care one jot that the people who voted for what he put forward will suffer, he just wants to get into Number 10. I don't think he even cares whether we're in the EU or not. He is an absolute opportunist and will use whatever and whoever he wants to get where he wants to be.

They're awfully quiet about it 😀

Ha! I was bored at work and spotted this reference to me, so how could I resist?!

The word you rarely find in the Brexit debate is pragmatism, and for good reason.

We have two sides talking across each other, both making solid arguments for their own agenda.

We have the economic argument of the Remain camp that it is extremely difficult to refute, particularly where the, or a, Customs union with the EU27 is concerned. To leave with no customs agreement would leave the UK with a WTO la la land catastrophe. The very idea that economic and political giants like the USA or China will do anything other than offer the UK a take it or leave it bad deal is delusional. The problem of the Irish border will not be resolved without a customs agreement, and Gibraltar could well be impoverished. However, little of this matters to the other camp, those that argue for Leave based on identity politics.

The Leave argument based on Identity politics is far wider than the media fuelled xenophobic moral panic, ironically promoted by the same people that supported the causes of the refugee crisis that has engulfed southern Europe, regarding the destruction of both Iraq and Libya.

The nationalist case has many very cogent points, Maastricht was a game changer. Despite the existence of a European Parliament there nowhere exists a European demos. The European project decimated national sovereignty when it created the Euro, a misconceived idea that put the cart before the horse, economic union prior to political union, and has decimated democracy in the Euro area countries, the disrespect of the Greek people being the prime example. Pooled sovereignty in supranational institutions and arrangements was always controversial, but with Maastricht and later treaties, the European Union project went further than most Europeans are willing to go, as can be seen in the stalling of, and push-back against, ever closer union that Brexit is only the most high profile example. The political project, as distinct from the economic trading block, the common market, is living on borrowed time. The Euro zone will break up before any political union can emerge.

A country cannot be truly sovereign if it does not issue the currency that is legal tender within it boundaries. Fiscal policy is controlled by unelected bankers at the ECB. Bankers impose an ideologically motivated rule based deflationary fiscal policy across the Euro zone. We saw the consequences of this in 2008, Greece and Ireland were technically bankrupted bailing out their banks, and the UK was not, why? Because the UK has a central bank issuing its own currency, it can never run out of pounds, it can always pay money it owes that is denominated in pounds. Greece and Ireland get their Euros from the ECB, and the ECB will not guarantee the 'debt' resulting from deficit spending in the individual countries within the EZ area.

Personally I hope for a pragmatic soft Brexit economically, at least a customs union, and for as full a one as possible in terms of EU political institutions.

For anybody interested, the above argument on currency issuing states is central to a real world grounded macroeconomic theory called Modern Money Theory, with its roots in the work of late great Hyman Minsky, and sectoral balances analysis of Wynne Godley; that money flows in and out the economy in the three sectors, government, rest of the world, and private business and household sectors and that these must by identity sum to zero. Basically government deficit is private sector surplus and vice versa. It shows why austerity in a sovereign currency issuing state like Britain is based on either an economic fallacy or an ideologically motivated lie. Mainstream neoclassical macroeconomics is incoherent. Read here: modernmoneybasics.com/

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43300201
Oh Dear, now Vauxhalls under threat, as a result of Brexit.
Looks like many of the people who voted leave ,will be able to see the advantages of Brexit, from the confines of the Job Club. Lol