BREXIT

Sorry, lets be clear here - BHS staff being shafted had precisely nothing to do with Brexit - it was the combined actions of gluttonous executives who didn't give a shit about their employees pensions and a succession of impotent governments who were/are petrified of challenging vested business interests. Toys 'R' Us going into administration also has almost nothing to do with Brexit either - anybody could have seen their demise coming, totally inert in adapting their business to the modern day. Not sure Brexit has much to do with the ways in which New Look and Maplin have been mismanaged either, though I'm sure it will become a rather handy excuse for explaining their largely self-inflicted poor financial performance. 

I abhor this argument in general - this idea that "oooh we couldn't possibly do anything that business doesn't want us to do" - it amounts to us allowing businesses to say whatever they like about Brexit and for us to believe them - essentially they are just lobbying for a soft Brexit via their threats to take their business elsewhere. They shouldn't be taken seriously. 

I especially abhor it when supposedly left-wing people believe this nonsense - it is no different to when Tories say "Oh but we can't make Starbucks and Amazon and Google pay us the tax they owe because they'll move elsewhere" or "We couldn't possibly increase corporation tax because all those aforementioned tax evading companies that don't pay their taxes anyway might go abroad instead". Boo-hoo. This argument completely ignores the ability of our country to replace said business if they did actually choose to just fuck off once and for all. Which they self-evidently wouldn't, but quite frankly, most of them should do precisely that. 

And that takes me to a similar argument that I heard earlier today that really, really pissed me off - a "Labour" MP, Mary Creagh (Blairite moron) on the radio saying that she supports weapons sales to Saudi Arabia because they provide important jobs for British people. Oh, who really cares if Yemeni children are having their limbs blown off by British-made weapons because at least the boys and girls back home aren't on the dole queue. She needs to proceed directly to the fucking bin and stay there. Dickhead. 

Are you for real? And to think Ian H Block called me angry.

He is for real, he's completely correct. The EU is coming for the millionaire offshore tax evaders that own all the Brexit newspapers or hedge fund guys like Mr Rees-Mogg. 

The EU is coming after a tiny minority at the top of society, who have successfully convinced the working class that it's actually the EU that is their enemy. Madness.

Not sure it does after today's agreement.....

Hey, less of that good news. Some on this thread will hate it! 😀

What’s the point of a referendum if you don’t respect the result. Even “Captain Desperate” has finally recognised that!

Because the “will of the people” can change? More young people who who feel their future was snatched away by Leavers are old enough to vote now.

People change their mind, and the most democratic thing that could happen, actually, is a referendum on the deal to see whether people still want to go through with this as the consequences have become apparent and the lies exposed.

Basically where we were, but with zero say in the regulations we "align" with, rather than having arguably the largest influence and the best deal of any member state.

Even the Brexit campaigners say it’s not working out, now. This is the man from Vote Leave who said “nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market”
uk.businessinsider.com/senior-brexiteer-admits-leaving-eu-is-not-working-out-2018-5?r=US&IR=T

Yes.
The Leave campaign said we would stay in the single market.
The Remain campaign said we would be out of the single market, and the Leave campaign shouted that down as 'Project Fear.'

Any Brexit campaigner that says people knew they were voting to leave the single market is admitting that they were lying during the referendum campaign, and that the voters knew it. Because every single Brexiteer was going from interview to interview saying we would remain in the single market.

All of this is why I don’t believe referendums are a good idea when the outcomes are not known. The same thing would have been true with the Scottish independence one too. The only time referendums can work are things like :- do you think gay marriage should be allowed? Should abortion be criminalised etc. Basically simple yes/no questions where the two alternatives are obvious. Anything more complex than that is pointless and down right confusing. I don’t blame people from either side in the referendum campaigns really. Remain was the tougher sell as that was basically “go with the status quo”. Because leave meant different things to different people and various leavers had different priorities, that campaign could be fought on virtually any topic with an almost blank canvass as no one knew if it was realistic or not.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. I'm glad we introduced gay marriage without a referendum.

People's fundamental rights should not be put to a plebiscite.

Also, look at the polarised hatred that has been unleashed by the Brexit referendum. A polarised debate on gay marriage or abortion would bring about all sorts of horrible rubbish.

Sorry, not sure I was overly clear on this. I don’t think we should have had a referendum on them, and agree that introducing it was 100% correct. My point was more that simple yes no questions with a clear outcome are the only questions which referendums can work in terms of campaigning for a defined outcome. I reiterate that I think referendums are not the best idea and a cop out for politicians who don’t want to make a decision

You don't half talk some crap.