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Post by Lobster on May 22, 2019 10:35:15 GMT
I'd say Labour's (or at least Corbyn's) stance on Brexit is the closest to what I believe, which is basically that we should honour the vote, but that doesn't mean we have to accept any old shite as part of the deal.
This stance is better than that of Change UK and the Greens. They are obviously pro-Remain parties who want another vote, however I can't help but think this is not to uphold democracy, but rather because they simply want to stop Brexit. If there was another vote and we voted to Leave again, I'm sure they still wouldn't accept it.
The Tories position is "we're leaving, and we'll dictate exactly how it's done". The Brexit Party and UKIP are obviously out, out, out at any cost.
I've no idea what the Lib Dems want, and I doubt they have either.
That's my personal, fairly crude summary of what all the parties are standing for at this election. It's a shame really that this vote is pretty much entirely about Brexit, as it's not the only thing going on in the world. I'd like to see the Greens better represented in politics, as I think the environment is the single most important global issue right now, but I'm not into their People's Vote carry-on, which I just see as more whining and faffing about.
I'm not close-minded to the idea that Brexit might work out OK in the end, but not if it's based on the sort of xenophobic Little Englander mentality peddled by the likes of Farage and Boris, who I notice wants to be PM again now that he's got someone else to blame for not clearing up the excrement he created three years ago.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on May 22, 2019 10:36:23 GMT
This isn't a Stalinist country, even if Corbyn wants it to be, you are allowed to admit that Labour are just as much of a shambles as the Tories on Brexit. On the contrary, Corbyn has played a blinder on Brexit - we may well have an upcoming GE. As for your “Stalinist” remark it’s laughable that you’re trotting stuff like that out in relation to the leader of the opposition. When are you going to tick IRA, Hamas and antisemitism off your checklist? Wow. The most deluded are those who choose to ignore what they already know. This is a prime example of why Labour cannot fully capitalise on the most unpopular Tory government since the mid-90's. |
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Post by South Wirral Blue on May 22, 2019 10:44:08 GMT
I'd say Labour's (or at least Corbyn's) stance on Brexit is the closest to what I believe, which is basically that we should honour the vote, but that doesn't mean we have to accept any old shite as part of the deal. This stance is better than that of Change UK and the Greens. They are obviously pro-Remain parties who want another vote, however I can't help but think this is not to uphold democracy, but rather because they simply want to stop Brexit. If there was another vote and we voted to Leave again, I'm sure they still wouldn't accept it. The Tories position is "we're leaving, and we'll dictate exactly how it's done". The Brexit Party and UKIP are obviously out, out, out at any cost. I've no idea what the Lib Dems want, and I doubt they have either. That's my personal, fairly crude summary of what all the parties are standing for at this election. It's a shame really that this vote is pretty much entirely about Brexit, as it's not the only thing going on in the world. I'd like to see the Greens better represented in politics, as I think the environment is the single most important global issue right now, but I'm not into their People's Vote carry-on, which I just see as more whining and faffing about. I'm not close-minded to the idea that Brexit might work out OK in the end, but not if it's based on the sort of xenophobic Little Englander mentality peddled by the likes of Farage and Boris, who I notice wants to be PM again now that he's got someone else to blame for not clearing up the excrement he created three years ago. Lib Dems want to stop Brexit. |
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Post by Lobster on May 22, 2019 11:14:06 GMT
Labour and Corbyn are not above criticism, but I honestly don't think they can be blamed equally for the Brexit mess.
It wasn't their idea, for a start. The Conservatives have never managed to agree on Europe and rather than sort it out internally, they fobbed it off on the public and didn't put together any strategy or risk assessment for the outcome we voted for.
Labour rightly took the rap for the Iraq War even though the Tories supported it as well, and I believe the Tories should take 95% of the rap for Brexit. Labour aren't perfect but I really don't think they would've overseen a shambles like this.
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BREXIT
May 22, 2019 11:21:06 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on May 22, 2019 11:21:06 GMT
I'd say Labour's (or at least Corbyn's) stance on Brexit is the closest to what I believe, which is basically that we should honour the vote, but that doesn't mean we have to accept any old shite as part of the deal. This stance is better than that of Change UK and the Greens. They are obviously pro-Remain parties who want another vote, however I can't help but think this is not to uphold democracy, but rather because they simply want to stop Brexit. If there was another vote and we voted to Leave again, I'm sure they still wouldn't accept it. The Tories position is "we're leaving, and we'll dictate exactly how it's done". The Brexit Party and UKIP are obviously out, out, out at any cost. I've no idea what the Lib Dems want, and I doubt they have either. That's my personal, fairly crude summary of what all the parties are standing for at this election. It's a shame really that this vote is pretty much entirely about Brexit, as it's not the only thing going on in the world. I'd like to see the Greens better represented in politics, as I think the environment is the single most important global issue right now, but I'm not into their People's Vote carry-on, which I just see as more whining and faffing about. I'm not close-minded to the idea that Brexit might work out OK in the end, but not if it's based on the sort of xenophobic Little Englander mentality peddled by the likes of Farage and Boris, who I notice wants to be PM again now that he's got someone else to blame for not clearing up the excrement he created three years ago. I wouldn’t say any of that was “crude” - pretty much spot on and very measured. I’m voting Labour because Labour are not using these elections solely to focus on Brexit, they’re not a single issue party unlike some of the others. I am voting Labour to enact a radical change in how this country operates in the interest of the everyday average citizen. I’m voting for their long-term policies. |
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BREXIT
May 22, 2019 15:51:30 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on May 22, 2019 15:51:30 GMT
Rumours are that May could resign this evening.
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BREXIT
May 22, 2019 18:09:39 GMT
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Post by Ian H Block on May 22, 2019 18:09:39 GMT
British Steel gone pop, citing Brexshit as a reason for their demise. But what do they know, I’m sure there’ll be a queue of Brexshitters to claim otherwise.
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BREXIT
May 23, 2019 0:29:44 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on May 23, 2019 0:29:44 GMT
So it seems after six weeks of negotiation, far from “facilitating a Tory Brexit”, Labour have put Theresa May in a position where her party is disintegrating around her, her deal and her premiership is over.
But yeah, keep on with your “lack of opposition” nonsense....
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Post by South Wirral Blue on May 23, 2019 6:11:01 GMT
Haha you still can't resist being the board's WUM, even after all these years!
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Post by Al on May 23, 2019 6:38:17 GMT
Haha you still can't resist being the board's WUM, even after all these years! As someone who has known him for many years, he's never stopped being a WUM |
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BREXIT
May 23, 2019 6:45:16 GMT
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Post by Lobster on May 23, 2019 6:45:16 GMT
Rumours are that May could resign this evening. Hopefully she'll continue to bumble on for a while. The last thing we need right now is for Boris or Rees-Mogg to come in and 'save' Brexit. |
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BREXIT
May 23, 2019 6:55:07 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on May 23, 2019 6:55:07 GMT
Haha you still can't resist being the board's WUM, even after all these years! I suggest you turn on the news if you don’t believe me. |
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Post by keysersoze on May 23, 2019 7:41:14 GMT
Haha you still can't resist being the board's WUM, even after all these years! I suggest you turn on the news if you don’t believe me. The Tory party is disintegrating around her in spite of Labour's "opposition", not because of it. |
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Post by South Wirral Blue on May 23, 2019 7:46:48 GMT
Haha you still can't resist being the board's WUM, even after all these years! I suggest you turn on the news if you don’t believe me. Clearly you missed the Tories taking a hammering in the locals and far from capitalising as they should have, Labour made significant losses too! So much for your effective opposition claim. Corbyn has done more damage to Labour than he has the Tories. |
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BREXIT
May 23, 2019 8:32:08 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on May 23, 2019 8:32:08 GMT
Biggest share of the vote for half a century, largest party in Europe, forcing multiple government U-turns and vote losses etc etc etc. I think you expect the opposition to actually make the decisions in running the country - Labour have done all they can do without being in power.
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BREXIT
May 23, 2019 10:46:56 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on May 23, 2019 10:46:56 GMT
Even Labour MP's aren't shameless enough to take any credit for what's happening to the Tories.
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BREXIT
May 23, 2019 15:45:20 GMT
Post by Deva Chanter on May 23, 2019 15:45:20 GMT
On the contrary, Corbyn has played a blinder on Brexit - we may well have an upcoming GE. As for your “Stalinist” remark it’s laughable that you’re trotting stuff like that out in relation to the leader of the opposition. When are you going to tick IRA, Hamas and antisemitism off your checklist? Wow. The most deluded are those who choose to ignore what they already know. This is a prime example of why Labour cannot fully capitalise on the most unpopular Tory government since the mid-90's. It genuinely is laughable though. I'd hope you'd just admit your use of the term 'Stalinist' was a baseless ad hominem otherwise you have zero idea what Stalinism is. |
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Post by South Wirral Blue on May 23, 2019 15:50:47 GMT
Wow. The most deluded are those who choose to ignore what they already know. This is a prime example of why Labour cannot fully capitalise on the most unpopular Tory government since the mid-90's. It genuinely is laughable though. I'd hope you'd just admit your use of the term 'Stalinist' was a baseless ad hominem otherwise you have zero idea what Stalinism is. You pair sound like you should be writing for a Cold War edition of Pravda. A boring one. |
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BREXIT
May 23, 2019 15:54:01 GMT
Post by Deva Chanter on May 23, 2019 15:54:01 GMT
It genuinely is laughable though. I'd hope you'd just admit your use of the term 'Stalinist' was a baseless ad hominem otherwise you have zero idea what Stalinism is. You pair sound like you should be writing for a Cold War edition of Pravda. A boring one. Would you like to explain what Stalinism is? |
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Post by South Wirral Blue on May 23, 2019 16:05:48 GMT
You pair sound like you should be writing for a Cold War edition of Pravda. A boring one. Would you like to explain what Stalinism is? Have a day off mate. |
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BREXIT
May 23, 2019 17:22:44 GMT
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Post by Lobster on May 23, 2019 17:22:44 GMT
The number of old fools I've seen on Facebook today saying they're not voting or have spoiled their ballot. No doubt the same people who complain that the EU is full of 'unelected' politicians.
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Post by Deva Chanter on May 23, 2019 19:22:28 GMT
Would you like to explain what Stalinism is? Have a day off mate. That's a no then. Thanks for clearing that up sweetie. |
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BREXIT
May 23, 2019 19:57:33 GMT
Post by Little Blue Boy on May 23, 2019 19:57:33 GMT
British Steel gone pop, citing Brexshit as a reason for their demise. But what do they know, I’m sure there’ll be a queue of Brexshitters to claim otherwise. Greybull Capital are well known asset strippers who have crippled many companies whilst turning a profit. They are the primary reason British Steel has gone to the wall. Concerning that you are believing the words of these vultures because it fits your agenda. |
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BREXIT
May 23, 2019 20:34:35 GMT
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Post by Al on May 23, 2019 20:34:35 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on May 23, 2019 22:38:14 GMT
That's a no then. Thanks for clearing that up sweetie. Jesus. Skillful deflection away from the issue that was being debated though, the Great Leader would be proud! |
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Post by South Wirral Blue on May 23, 2019 22:42:50 GMT
The number of old fools I've seen on Facebook today saying they're not voting or have spoiled their ballot. No doubt the same people who complain that the EU is full of 'unelected' politicians. Yeah I also know quite a few who think voting in this election is pointless. People don't seem to realise the relevance it could potentially have on future Brexit policy. |
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BREXIT
May 24, 2019 6:47:29 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on May 24, 2019 6:47:29 GMT
The number of old fools I've seen on Facebook today saying they're not voting or have spoiled their ballot. No doubt the same people who complain that the EU is full of 'unelected' politicians. Yeah I also know quite a few who think voting in this election is pointless. People don't seem to realise the relevance it could potentially have on future Brexit policy. The Communist Party released a statement advocating a boycott of these elections as the only way to respect democracy re: the Referendum result. In theory we shouldn’t be having these elections at all. |
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Post by jb on May 24, 2019 8:28:10 GMT
Yeah I also know quite a few who think voting in this election is pointless. People don't seem to realise the relevance it could potentially have on future Brexit policy. The Communist Party released a statement advocating a boycott of these elections as the only way to respect democracy re: the Referendum result. In theory we shouldn’t be having these elections at all. Communism and democracy is a contradiction in terms. |
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BREXIT
May 24, 2019 9:17:41 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on May 24, 2019 9:17:41 GMT
May is finally going.
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BREXIT
May 24, 2019 9:21:26 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on May 24, 2019 9:21:26 GMT
The Tory bastards need to do the decent thing and call a GE.
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