BREXIT

Some people seem to think that the EU referendum is the only example of democracy ever, and that it overrides all other democratic votes. 

In reality, there are two types of democracy - direct and representative - and the two often contradict each other. The best example of this I can think of is in Scotland, where in an example of direct democracy, they voted against independence in 2014, only to pretty much unanimously elect a party a year later whose main policy is Scottish independence. There's an argument that rather than angling for a second Scottish referendum, the SNP should simply state that as the dominant party in Scotland, their position on independence is clear and that they intend to withdraw from the UK on x date. 

We have a tendency to think that direct democracy trumps representative, but in reality our country is built on the latter. I believe there are cantons in Switzerland where policies are decided directly by a majority vote among citizens, but most Western democracy is representative. We elect people who, in theory, we believe have the knowledge and integrity to make the best decisions for us. 

There are 650 or so MPs in the UK, each of which was democratically elected by the people living in the constituency in which they stood. You cannot expect all of them to blindly back a small majority vote three years ago. If I live in an area that's 75% Remain, and the MP we elected clearly stated a pro-Remain stance in their manifesto, why should that MP go down to Westminster and force through a terrible deal on the basis of a 52-48% nationwide vote? That's not democracy at all. 

I tend to think we should leave if we can because it is what we voted for (albeit in a stupid, poorly executed referendum that shouldn't have happened), but the narrow margin of the binary vote is such that we should not bow to the whims of those who want to leave in the most ruthless and distructive way possible. If we can't do that, the government should apologise to the 52% and concede that we cannot leave the EU in a way that's in the country's interests.

And another thing - I don't understand why people seem to think Labour should be nailing their colours to the Remain mast. Well over a third of Labour voted wanted Brexit. The North and the working class voted heavily for Leave, and traditionally that's Labour's heartland. Is it worth pissing them off? Alienating a huge proportion of Labour voters in the hope of picking up a few floating Remainers? There is an argument that it's more left-wing to vote Leave. 

The problem both Labour and the Tories have is that they're too big for their own good, and there isn't enough common ground among their voters, members and politicians. The likes of the Greens and UKIP don't have the public squabbles they do because their policies are more refined and they agree on them. Perhaps the two parties need to talk to each other about whether the current division is doing either of them, or British politics, any good and consider a breakup of both. Radical, yes, but not the craziest thing we've seen in world politics in recent years. 

Labour’s actions today in banning Campbell is something straight out of Stalin’s Ethos. Have they put him in a gulag in Comrade Corbyn’s allotment?

Fair enough, but just so I'm clear on what the message to the electorate is - Campbell is rightly banned from Labour for exercising his democratic right in voting against Corbyn?
Hodge should also be banned from Labour for exercising her democratic right in tackling Corbyn over the anti-semitism claims?

Speaks for itself really!

Speaking of 'weak arguments' - firstly Campbell isn't an MP and secondly representing something doesn't mean you have to agree with everything unquestionably. It's a democracy, remember.

Not the best analogy there Lobster I'm afraid. That's because Allah is the same God as the Christian one, the same as the Jewish God (Yahweh). Basically, Allah/God/Yahweh are the same being, they just have a different name.  

Are you therefore saying that Campbell is like Jesus? Are you comparing the Labour Party to the Sanhedrin which would be the irony of all ironies given yesterday's news about the impending investigation? 

I think Sychdyn was referring to the fact that Margaret Hodge had, the week before the Euro elections, told people they should back other parties in the election. To be fair, what is the point of party political membership if a minimum condition of holding it isn't supporting that party over other parties in elections? 

Campbell is a sick dude!

Sorry but you are wrong. I've spoken to two friends who are Muslim about this and they state that the main difference between Islam and Christianity is the Prophet Muhammed. They also do not believe in the Holy Trinity. Jesus is referred to in the Qu'ran (Isa ibn). 

Who's David Hathaway? Is he a practicing Muslim? Does he regularly attend a Mosque and read the Quran and regularly speaks to Iman's? The only David Hathaway I can see is one of those Evangelist preachers. Hardly going to have an in depth knowledge of the Islamic faith is he?

Baal is referred to in the Old Testament Book of Samuel (studied this myself a few years ago) and is classed as an entirely separate "god" to the "god" that Jews, Christians and Muslims worship.   

He’s a right wing religious nut who believes Brexit is God’s will. Cut from the same cloth as Derek Acorah or Clinton Baptiste, getting secret messages from his imaginary friend.

Religion. Its all bollocks really isn't it

The Labour rule which Campbell fell foul of was actually brought into place by the very man himself, along with his paymaster Blair, during the latter’s premiership as a bid to clamp down on those MPs and Party members who were against the war in Iraq from speaking out. Oh the irony.

What's very interesting here is that people keep saying 'Labour need to..' and talk about potential resignations etc, but Corbyn has now won 2 landslide leadership elections. I've no doubt he'd win a third.

I don't think the time is now to be considering a leadership change - I actually think there could be scope for a left leaning government in the near future. This swing to now backing a second referendum has to be unapologetic and bold, though. It cannot appear half-hearted or forced. If Labour really draw a line in the sand, they need to mean it and make some noise about it. Lib Dem/Green voters will soon get behind it and then we're talking.

Unfortunately, it'll lose a fair few traditional northern Labour strong holds but that's just Brexit for you. It's such a shit idea, that there's no easy fix.

I presume you’re a Labour supporter, but you’d be happy winning over some Lib Dem/Green types but lose “a fair few” traditional Labour strongholds. Seems a bit bizarre on the face of it.