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Post by Lobster on Sept 16, 2019 17:06:32 GMT
Never seen this before - the EU has a 'Euromyths' section on its website, which is basically an archive of barmy bullshit printed by British papers dating back to 1992 blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/It's all there - straight bananas, 'Mumbai mix', the 'Euro condom' , Kent now in France etc. As if the EU would ban rare meat! Europe thinks we're philistines for overcooking meat. If you ask for steak rare in most of Europe, it will barely be dead, and if you ask for it well done they'll refuse to serve you. It's not hard to see how 25 years of this rubbish in some of the best-selling papers could distort how people vote. |
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BREXIT
Sept 20, 2019 14:08:11 GMT
Post by Lobster on Sept 20, 2019 14:08:11 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Sept 21, 2019 10:33:36 GMT
When you lead as unpopular a goverment as Johnson, the likes of Corbyn and Abbott are gifts that keep on giving!
People see Corbyn's Labour for what it is, a rabble of far left lunatics who won't tolerate anybody more moderate than themselves.
Labour remain an unelectable shower.
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BREXIT
Sept 21, 2019 11:12:24 GMT
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Post by Lobster on Sept 21, 2019 11:12:24 GMT
I've said it a few times on this thread, but the big two parties are too broad for their own good.
Within Labour there's a hard left, and within the Tories there's a hard right, and both have sizeable support within the public. With their choice of leaders, both parties have decided to go a certain way, so the ones that are just a little left/right of centre need to decide whether they want to be part of it or go a separate way.
I'm not really even sure what the word "unelectable" is supposed to mean. Over the last few years, some of the most ridiculous people imaginable have indeed been elected all around the world.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Sept 21, 2019 15:18:08 GMT
I've said it a few times on this thread, but the big two parties are too broad for their own good. Within Labour there's a hard left, and within the Tories there's a hard right, and both have sizeable support within the public. With their choice of leaders, both parties have decided to go a certain way, so the ones that are just a little left/right of centre need to decide whether they want to be part of it or go a separate way. I'm not really even sure what the word "unelectable" is supposed to mean. Over the last few years, some of the most ridiculous people imaginable have indeed been elected all around the world. Just because someone may be ridiculous to you, me and others it doesn't mean to say they don't know how to appeal to large swathes of support in their country - that makes them electable. People will have different views to you, ridiculous or otherwise! |
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BREXIT
Sept 21, 2019 16:13:35 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Sept 21, 2019 16:13:35 GMT
When you lead as unpopular a goverment as Johnson, the likes of Corbyn and Abbott are gifts that keep on giving! People see Corbyn's Labour for what it is, a rabble of far left lunatics who won't tolerate anybody more moderate than themselves. Labour remain an unelectable shower. Labours policies in the 2017 manifesto (which is unlikely to be much different from any upcoming manifesto if necessary) were largely agreeable to the majority of the public, and generally speaking JC is considered a run of the mill centrist in a lot of other nations, mainly in Scandinavia. |
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BREXIT
Sept 21, 2019 17:23:30 GMT
Post by Deva Chanter on Sept 21, 2019 17:23:30 GMT
When you lead as unpopular a goverment as Johnson, the likes of Corbyn and Abbott are gifts that keep on giving! People see Corbyn's Labour for what it is, a rabble of far left lunatics who won't tolerate anybody more moderate than themselves. Labour remain an unelectable shower. Qwhite interesting that you felt the need to include Diane Abbott. Not one single Labour MP has been deselected since Jeremy was elected leader. Corbyn invited all varieties of left, centre-left and right into the shadow cabinet and yet they all decided to resign in order to launch a failed coup. Also, Labour increased their vote share under Corbyn more than under any other leader since Attlee in 1945. So you might need to work a bit harder on your "people see Labour for what it is, a rabble of far left lunatics" campaign, when more than 12 million people voted for them. Or are there 12 million "far left lunatics" in the UK? |
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BREXIT
Sept 21, 2019 18:33:48 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Sept 21, 2019 18:33:48 GMT
When you lead as unpopular a goverment as Johnson, the likes of Corbyn and Abbott are gifts that keep on giving! People see Corbyn's Labour for what it is, a rabble of far left lunatics who won't tolerate anybody more moderate than themselves. Labour remain an unelectable shower. Qwhite interesting that you felt the need to include Diane Abbott Wow. Not surprising you'd say that but yeah, wow. |
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Post by jb on Sept 21, 2019 21:26:02 GMT
4 day working weeks, £25k minimum wage show Fagin has lost the plot and is living in cuckoo land. Bloke is a joke!
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Post by Deva Chanter on Sept 22, 2019 19:05:26 GMT
4 day working weeks, £25k minimum wage show Fagin has lost the plot and is living in cuckoo land. Bloke is a joke! You would have said exactly the same had you been around when the unions won workers the weekend and 40 hour week. A 2 DAY WEEKEND, CLoUd cUckOo LAnD. |
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BREXIT
Sept 23, 2019 6:28:17 GMT
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Post by Lobster on Sept 23, 2019 6:28:17 GMT
Whether or not four-day weeks are the answer (I believe Labour's own report has said it's not realistically enforceable) I do think we should look at the working culture in this country. After Greece, we work the longest hours in Europe. Why? Are we earning more than other countries? Are we more productive?
In countries like Sweden, there's a culture of working a three-hour morning, an hour break and then a three-hour afternoon, and they get more done than us because they work hard during these manageable blocks. We dick about, have pointless meetings, about 15 cups of coffee etc but it's all just extending the time we spend somewhere we don't want to be.
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Post by Hannibal on Sept 23, 2019 7:59:09 GMT
Whether or not four-day weeks are the answer (I believe Labour's own report has said it's not realistically enforceable) I do think we should look at the working culture in this country. After Greece, we work the longest hours in Europe. Why? Are we earning more than other countries? Are we more productive? In countries like Sweden, there's a culture of working a three-hour morning, an hour break and then a three-hour afternoon, and they get more done than us because they work hard during these manageable blocks. We dick about, have pointless meetings, about 15 cups of coffee etc but it's all just extending the time we spend somewhere we don't want to be. That may be for you, but I worked in the NHS and often worked a 13 hour shift without a break. |
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Post by Lobster on Sept 23, 2019 8:16:16 GMT
Whether or not four-day weeks are the answer (I believe Labour's own report has said it's not realistically enforceable) I do think we should look at the working culture in this country. After Greece, we work the longest hours in Europe. Why? Are we earning more than other countries? Are we more productive? In countries like Sweden, there's a culture of working a three-hour morning, an hour break and then a three-hour afternoon, and they get more done than us because they work hard during these manageable blocks. We dick about, have pointless meetings, about 15 cups of coffee etc but it's all just extending the time we spend somewhere we don't want to be. That may be for you, but I worked in the NHS and often worked a 13 hour shift without a break. I've done that too - just making a point that we work hard and long hours, but don't always work well. |
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BREXIT
Sept 23, 2019 11:43:04 GMT
Post by Hannibal on Sept 23, 2019 11:43:04 GMT
Never seen this before - the EU has a 'Euromyths' section on its website, which is basically an archive of barmy bullshit printed by British papers dating back to 1992 blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/It's all there - straight bananas, 'Mumbai mix', the 'Euro condom' , Kent now in France etc. As if the EU would ban rare meat! Europe thinks we're philistines for overcooking meat. If you ask for steak rare in most of Europe, it will barely be dead, and if you ask for it well done they'll refuse to serve you. It's not hard to see how 25 years of this rubbish in some of the best-selling papers could distort how people vote. Couldn't help thinking about the beautiful and talented Annie Lennox when I read this. |
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BREXIT
Sept 23, 2019 14:40:33 GMT
Post by jb on Sept 23, 2019 14:40:33 GMT
4 day working weeks, £25k minimum wage show Fagin has lost the plot and is living in cuckoo land. Bloke is a joke! You would have said exactly the same had you been around when the unions won workers the weekend and 40 hour week. A 2 DAY WEEKEND, CLoUd cUckOo LAnD. I knew I would get that churlish response from you. So you think that a four day week will improve the British economy and small businesses will thrive being open four days a week? |
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Post by Deva Chanter on Sept 23, 2019 15:47:00 GMT
You would have said exactly the same had you been around when the unions won workers the weekend and 40 hour week. A 2 DAY WEEKEND, CLoUd cUckOo LAnD. I knew I would get that churlish response from you. So you think that a four day week will improve the British economy and small businesses will thrive being open four days a week? When Robert Owen instituted the 8-hour day in New Lanark 300 years ago, you would have been calling him a far left lunatic or some other ad hominem. But like most of the workers rights in this country, they were proposed by socialists who had the vision to imagine a happier future and won by trade unionists and working people willing to fight for them. Just as institutions such as the NHS were created by socialists. You probably would have opposed that at the time too with some banal moderate nonsense about 'unaffordability'. In answer to your question, I happen to believe that human beings should be able to live their lives rather than spend the majority of them working in jobs they don't enjoy. This policy is merely a step towards that. I'd combine it with huge investment in publicly-owned automative technologies and AI so that the UK could become a world-leader in using technological advancement to eradicate bullshit and precarious jobs, freeing people to spend their time doing what they want to be doing. |
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BREXIT
Sept 23, 2019 17:38:05 GMT
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Post by Lobster on Sept 23, 2019 17:38:05 GMT
I knew I would get that churlish response from you. So you think that a four day week will improve the British economy and small businesses will thrive being open four days a week? When Robert Owen instituted the 8-hour day in New Lanark 300 years ago, you would have been calling him a far left lunatic or some other ad hominem. But like most of the workers rights in this country, they were proposed by socialists who had the vision to imagine a happier future and won by trade unionists and working people willing to fight for them. Just as institutions such as the NHS were created by socialists. You probably would have opposed that at the time too with some banal moderate nonsense about 'unaffordability'. In answer to your question, I happen to believe that human beings should be able to live their lives rather than spend the majority of them working in jobs they don't enjoy. This policy is merely a step towards that. I'd combine it with huge investment in publicly-owned automative technologies and AI so that the UK could become a world-leader in using technological advancement to eradicate bullshit and precarious jobs, freeing people to spend their time doing what they want to be doing. Agree with most of what you say, but I think you need to be careful what you wish for there. I wouldn't like to lose my job to a computer, and the likes of Stephen Hawking have warned about the potential dangers that come with AI. |
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BREXIT
Sept 23, 2019 18:16:01 GMT
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jb likes this
Post by South Wirral Blue on Sept 23, 2019 18:16:01 GMT
When Robert Owen instituted the 8-hour day in New Lanark 300 years ago, you would have been calling him a far left lunatic or some other ad hominem. But like most of the workers rights in this country, they were proposed by socialists who had the vision to imagine a happier future and won by trade unionists and working people willing to fight for them. Just as institutions such as the NHS were created by socialists. You probably would have opposed that at the time too with some banal moderate nonsense about 'unaffordability'. In answer to your question, I happen to believe that human beings should be able to live their lives rather than spend the majority of them working in jobs they don't enjoy. This policy is merely a step towards that. I'd combine it with huge investment in publicly-owned automative technologies and AI so that the UK could become a world-leader in using technological advancement to eradicate bullshit and precarious jobs, freeing people to spend their time doing what they want to be doing. Agree with most of what you say, but I think you need to be careful what you wish for there. I wouldn't like to lose my job to a computer, and the likes of Stephen Hawking have warned about the potential dangers that come with AI. Agree. The only thing you'd be 'freeing' people to is the dole queue. You'd then raise the taxes of the 'rich' to pay for it and probably further plunder everyone's pensions for good measure. Classic! |
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Post by Deva Chanter on Sept 23, 2019 18:18:00 GMT
When Robert Owen instituted the 8-hour day in New Lanark 300 years ago, you would have been calling him a far left lunatic or some other ad hominem. But like most of the workers rights in this country, they were proposed by socialists who had the vision to imagine a happier future and won by trade unionists and working people willing to fight for them. Just as institutions such as the NHS were created by socialists. You probably would have opposed that at the time too with some banal moderate nonsense about 'unaffordability'. In answer to your question, I happen to believe that human beings should be able to live their lives rather than spend the majority of them working in jobs they don't enjoy. This policy is merely a step towards that. I'd combine it with huge investment in publicly-owned automative technologies and AI so that the UK could become a world-leader in using technological advancement to eradicate bullshit and precarious jobs, freeing people to spend their time doing what they want to be doing. Agree with most of what you say, but I think you need to be careful what you wish for there. I wouldn't like to lose my job to a computer, and the likes of Stephen Hawking have warned about the potential dangers that come with AI. I suppose the point I'm making is that there are so many bullshit jobs that nobody really wants that remain just because society is completely wedded to the capitalist method of employment. Why are people still sat on supermarket tills being paid minimum wage and losing the will to live when the technology to remove those jobs has been around for years? Those people could be looking after elderly relatives, going to university, researching, writing books, music or poetry, curing cancer, fighting climate change, figuring out how humans can get to Mars etc. You'd be freeing people to make a difference, to fulfil their potential or just to enjoy their lives that bit more. |
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Post by jb on Sept 23, 2019 20:09:12 GMT
I knew I would get that churlish response from you. So you think that a four day week will improve the British economy and small businesses will thrive being open four days a week? When Robert Owen instituted the 8-hour day in New Lanark 300 years ago, you would have been calling him a far left lunatic or some other ad hominem. But like most of the workers rights in this country, they were proposed by socialists who had the vision to imagine a happier future and won by trade unionists and working people willing to fight for them. Just as institutions such as the NHS were created by socialists. You probably would have opposed that at the time too with some banal moderate nonsense about 'unaffordability'. In answer to your question, I happen to believe that human beings should be able to live their lives rather than spend the majority of them working in jobs they don't enjoy. This policy is merely a step towards that. I'd combine it with huge investment in publicly-owned automative technologies and AI so that the UK could become a world-leader in using technological advancement to eradicate bullshit and precarious jobs, freeing people to spend their time doing what they want to be doing. I’ll ignore more churlish nonsense as illustrated in your first paragraph. Plus you didn’t answer my question. Your second paragraph is from the annuls of Corbyn fantasy. So whilst people are made unemployed because of AI and jobs are scrapped because they are considered to be “bullshit” they can go out and write poetry can they? I’m sure that will pay the bills. Looks like you want to see mass unemployment and a nation of poets. Unbelievable! |
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BREXIT
Sept 23, 2019 20:20:04 GMT
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Post by Ian H Block on Sept 23, 2019 20:20:04 GMT
When Robert Owen instituted the 8-hour day in New Lanark 300 years ago, you would have been calling him a far left lunatic or some other ad hominem. But like most of the workers rights in this country, they were proposed by socialists who had the vision to imagine a happier future and won by trade unionists and working people willing to fight for them. Just as institutions such as the NHS were created by socialists. You probably would have opposed that at the time too with some banal moderate nonsense about 'unaffordability'. In answer to your question, I happen to believe that human beings should be able to live their lives rather than spend the majority of them working in jobs they don't enjoy. This policy is merely a step towards that. I'd combine it with huge investment in publicly-owned automative technologies and AI so that the UK could become a world-leader in using technological advancement to eradicate bullshit and precarious jobs, freeing people to spend their time doing what they want to be doing. I’ll ignore more churlish nonsense as illustrated in your first paragraph. Plus you didn’t answer my question. Your second paragraph is from the annuls of Corbyn fantasy. So whilst people are made unemployed because of AI and jobs are scrapped because they are considered to be “bullshit” they can go out and write poetry can they? I’m sure that will pay the bills. Looks like you want to see mass unemployment and a nation of poets. Unbelievable! ‘Annals’, surely? Or maybe anals. |
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BREXIT
Sept 23, 2019 20:34:58 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Sept 23, 2019 20:34:58 GMT
I know the Corbynites on here will find this totally unpalatable given the man's skill for being right about everything but I don't think today did the party much good at all.
Scenes at the conference were farcical at times and the decision to stay neutral, as Wilson tried to in the 70s, may come back to haunt them.
You know where the other parties stand whereas Labour continue to look deliberately non-committal. It's not a good look for an opposition party in my view.
Relief for Corbyn of course today but at what long term cost?
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Post by Firestick Frank on Sept 23, 2019 21:50:03 GMT
Conservatives: We'll purge the ones who disagree and break the law to crash the UK out of Europe without a deal.
LibDem: F**k potential civil war, we'll just completely ignore the referendum and cancel Brexit altogether.
Labour: We'll hold a referendum with an option to accept a deal or remain. We'll stay neutral so it's up to the public to decide.
Everyone: CoRbYn Is A eXtrEmIsT!!!1
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BREXIT
Sept 23, 2019 22:35:46 GMT
Post by Lobster on Sept 23, 2019 22:35:46 GMT
I've always thought Labour/Corbyn's stance on Brexit is the most rational, and I don't see it as an unclear or non-committal one.
I see their stance as "Look, we don't think it's a good idea and we would never have held a referendum like that, but we accept that it's what people voted for and it's going to do more harm than good to go back on it now. Let's try to get a decent deal and make the best of a bad situation. " Maybe not a vote winner, but it is the most realistic and rational stance, and one that involves a bit more thought than just nailing your colours to the mast one way or the other.
The Lib Dems have a history of trying to own the opposition stance to anything Labour and the Tories won't rule out, such as the Iraq War, student fees and now Brexit. Unfortunately, they showed under Nick Clegg how readily they will throw away what they stand for, and for that reason I don't really think they stand for anything.
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BREXIT
Sept 24, 2019 9:50:32 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Sept 24, 2019 9:50:32 GMT
Decision to prorogue parliament ruled unlawful. No ifs or buts, total condemnation of Johnson by the court.
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Post by eyeswideopen on Sept 24, 2019 10:05:46 GMT
Decision to prorogue parliament ruled unlawful. No ifs or buts, total condemnation of Johnson by the court. At the very least he should be arrested. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Sept 24, 2019 10:12:01 GMT
Serving Prime Minister found to have broken the law in an attempt to steamroller through something that will massively damage the British economy but make him and his rich friends millions of pounds, lied to the Queen to do so, and is also facing serious allegations of gross misuse of taxpayers funds to lavish on one of his young “bits on the side” - is this treasonous traitor to our country fit for the role?
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BREXIT
Sept 24, 2019 10:20:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 10:20:31 GMT
Well apparently John major was OK to prorogue parliament to avoid questions on cash for questions. I am totally confused who is ruling this country. Non brits taking UK government to court and winning something very strange going on.
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BREXIT
Sept 24, 2019 10:22:49 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Sept 24, 2019 10:22:49 GMT
May was incompetent, Johnson is that and a whole lot more.
We've got to have an election now I think and it's difficult to see how Johnson can remain in office. It was a big gamble and it's backfired in a big way.
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Post by Lobster on Sept 24, 2019 10:24:33 GMT
Well apparently John major was OK to prorogue parliament to avoid questions on cash for questions. I am totally confused who is ruling this country. Non brits taking UK government to court and winning something very strange going on. Almost a quarter of a century ago. Maybe the law has evolved over that time? |
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