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BREXIT
Nov 20, 2019 8:20:05 GMT
Post by Lobster on Nov 20, 2019 8:20:05 GMT
Corbyn doesn't always think well on the spot, but for me his difficulty answering the question shows he's the only one acknowledging that it's a very complex matter that's divided the nation, and therefore can't be wrapped up in a neat little soundbite.
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BREXIT
Nov 20, 2019 8:35:02 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Nov 20, 2019 8:35:02 GMT
The rebranding of the Conservative Party Press Office Twitter account as 'factcheckUK' during tonight's debate is proper 1984 stuff. Shows they think absolutely nothing of misleading the public. Not only that but the YouGov poll “result” on who won the ITV debate had Johnson at 51% and Corbyn at 49%. They polled 2,000 people. That’s one thing, but when you see that YouGov published this result at 6.50pm and the debate didn’t start until 8pm and didn’t end until 9pm it makes you wonder doesn’t it? YouGov is run by Tory MP Nadhim Zahawi (who told the BBC last week that he genuinely doesn’t know whether or not Corbyn would actually in real life shoot rich people dead) and Tory pollster and former Tory parliamentary candidate Stephan Shakespeare. Doesn’t make you wonder anymore. The official ITV Politics poll, with their political correspondent Paul Brand, had Corbyn at 78% and Johnson at 22% of 30,000 votes (28,000 more than the Tory-owned YouGov poll which was done before the debate started but purported to be a post-debate result...)
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BREXIT
Nov 20, 2019 12:45:09 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Nov 20, 2019 12:45:09 GMT
As for the later debate between the lesser parties, the only notable outcome of that was the fact that Jo Swinson, leader of the apparently Liberal Democrat’s, outed herself as an effing manic psychopath who would have no hesitation in obliterating millions and millions of people at the literal push of a button. In fact she screamed “YES!” before the question was even finished.
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BREXIT
Nov 20, 2019 14:13:27 GMT
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Post by Ian H Block on Nov 20, 2019 14:13:27 GMT
As for the later debate between the lesser parties, the only notable outcome of that was the fact that Jo Swinson, leader of the apparently Liberal Democrat’s, outed herself as an effing manic psychopath who would have no hesitation in obliterating millions and millions of people at the literal push of a button. In fact she screamed “YES!” before the question was even finished. Plays well with the Gammon demographic.
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BREXIT
Nov 21, 2019 7:25:55 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Nov 21, 2019 7:25:55 GMT
As will the fact that the Lib Dem’s official stance on a minority government is to form a coalition with Johnson’s “get Brexit done” Tories. What DO these jokers actually stand for these days?
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BREXIT
Nov 21, 2019 12:26:58 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Nov 21, 2019 12:26:58 GMT
Corbyn's opponents would literally defend the (pronunciation of a) name of a dead nonce before they would countenance some mildly redistributive policies. Imagine being more outraged about the pronunciation of a paedophile’s name than the sexual offences he committed against children.
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BREXIT
Nov 22, 2019 17:12:36 GMT
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Post by Lobster on Nov 22, 2019 17:12:36 GMT
I see a man earning over £80K a year was ranting about Labour's tax plans on Question Time last night, arguing that he's not even in the top 50% of earners. In fact, he's comfortably in the top 5% on that kind of money.
How do people so ignorant get so rich? This is what we're up against!
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BREXIT
Nov 22, 2019 17:47:54 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Nov 22, 2019 17:47:54 GMT
I see a man earning over £80K a year was ranting about Labour's tax plans on Question Time last night, arguing that he's not even in the top 50% of earners. In fact, he's comfortably in the top 5% on that kind of money. How do people so ignorant get so rich? This is what we're up against! Aye it isn’t even just Labour saying that, it’s the IFS too! Anything over about £25,500 per year is the top 50%! Surely that bloke must be walking around Bolton wondering why others are worse off than he is - the average wage in Bolton is 23k.
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BREXIT
Nov 22, 2019 17:48:49 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Nov 22, 2019 17:48:49 GMT
QT also has seven consecutive audience members attacking Labour. Same old same old even during a supposed purdah.
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BREXIT
Nov 22, 2019 17:52:55 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Nov 22, 2019 17:52:55 GMT
The new Brexit Party's manifesto includes the pledge to automatically hold a referendum should a petition get more than 5 million signatures.
Considering a petition to Revoke Article 50 got over 6 million it appears the Brexit Party now back a 2nd Referendum on Brexit.
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BREXIT
Nov 22, 2019 18:03:54 GMT
Post by Lobster on Nov 22, 2019 18:03:54 GMT
The new Brexit Party's manifesto includes the pledge to automatically hold a referendum should a petition get more than 5 million signatures. Considering a petition to Revoke Article 50 got over 6 million it appears the Brexit Party now back a 2nd Referendum on Brexit. How many signatures did that petition for putting Harry Maguire riding a unicorn on a bank note get? Ridiculous anyway as you could easily get two popular petitions that contradict each other. Seems like faced with criticism that they only have one policy, they've quickly come up with a load of other nonsense policies to go with it.
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Post by Deva Chanter on Nov 22, 2019 21:56:52 GMT
That car crash from Jo Swinson tonight was a real joy to behold. She got totally and utterly seen off by the audience.
Nothing scientific, but last time I started getting a really good feeling with a few days left of the election that something big was happening, I'm getting that again tonight.
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BREXIT
Nov 22, 2019 22:23:22 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Nov 22, 2019 22:23:22 GMT
Thought Nicola Sturgeon was excellent, Jo Swinson had a catastrophe and Johnson was his usual buffing, blustering, evading, lying self.
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Post by jb on Nov 23, 2019 12:09:17 GMT
Corbyn signing his own death warrant with the electorate with his “neutral” stance on Brexit. Just what the electorate didn’t want to hear after years of going round in circles.
At least the Labour Party can look to have a fit and proper leader in by 2020.
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BREXIT
Nov 23, 2019 12:37:08 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Nov 23, 2019 12:37:08 GMT
Corbyn signing his own death warrant with the electorate with his “neutral” stance on Brexit. Just what the electorate didn’t want to hear after years of going round in circles. At least the Labour Party can look to have a fit and proper leader in by 2020. Think it’s the best stance to take in order for any serving PM to enact the result of the vote. If they’re seen to be campaigning for one side then how can people respect them as a real PM representing the entire country? Harold Wilson did the same thing with the initial referendum in EU membership.
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Post by Deva Chanter on Nov 23, 2019 13:28:45 GMT
Corbyn signing his own death warrant with the electorate with his “neutral” stance on Brexit. Just what the electorate didn’t want to hear after years of going round in circles. At least the Labour Party can look to have a fit and proper leader in by 2020. To be fair, given your incredible hot takes on this thread, I'm not surprised you need political leaders to instruct you how to vote. Unfortunately for you, I think most people are capable of making their minds up without being told how.
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BREXIT
Nov 23, 2019 13:40:56 GMT
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Post by Lobster on Nov 23, 2019 13:40:56 GMT
I still think Corbyn is the only one whose Brexit policy is rational and makes any sense.
Taglines like 'Stop Brexit' and 'Get Brexit Done' are too simplistic and partisan for an issue as complex and polarising as this.
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Post by Lobster on Nov 23, 2019 13:49:05 GMT
I see a man earning over £80K a year was ranting about Labour's tax plans on Question Time last night, arguing that he's not even in the top 50% of earners. In fact, he's comfortably in the top 5% on that kind of money. How do people so ignorant get so rich? This is what we're up against! Aye it isn’t even just Labour saying that, it’s the IFS too! Anything over about £25,500 per year is the top 50%! Surely that bloke must be walking around Bolton wondering why others are worse off than he is - the average wage in Bolton is 23k. Imagine that guy going in a pub and thinking "I bet that bastard barmaid is on £100K a year while I'm scraping by on £80K!" The problem is that the world is full of people like him who rant and rave, and even when they're told they're wrong and shown why, they still keep ranting. That idiot was still getting smatterings of applause while talking complete rubbish. On the other hand, perhaps there's nothing better for a politician than for a member of the public to have a go at them and make a fool of themself. That episode will have done Labour no harm at all.
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BREXIT
Nov 23, 2019 14:01:26 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Nov 23, 2019 14:01:26 GMT
Corbyn signing his own death warrant with the electorate with his “neutral” stance on Brexit. Just what the electorate didn’t want to hear after years of going round in circles. At least the Labour Party can look to have a fit and proper leader in by 2020. Think it’s the best stance to take in order for any serving PM to enact the result of the vote. If they’re seen to be campaigning for one side then how can people respect them as a real PM representing the entire country? Harold Wilson did the same thing with the initial referendum in EU membership. Wilson knew what he was doing. Corbyn however has looked indecisive for years and after all this time the only thing he has decided is that he's on the fence. Add to that, Wilson wasn't entirely neutral. I think most people knew he was pro-EU membership in 1975. Members of the cult think this is another Corbyn masterstroke but they'll think that about everything he does. It's very uncertain this stance will have the same effect on the rest of the country.
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BREXIT
Nov 23, 2019 14:58:40 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Nov 23, 2019 14:58:40 GMT
What is so uncertain about “you decide, and I will enact your decision”? We all want MPs who represent us don’t we?
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Post by Lobster on Nov 24, 2019 8:43:06 GMT
Think it’s the best stance to take in order for any serving PM to enact the result of the vote. If they’re seen to be campaigning for one side then how can people respect them as a real PM representing the entire country? Harold Wilson did the same thing with the initial referendum in EU membership. Wilson knew what he was doing. Corbyn however has looked indecisive for years and after all this time the only thing he has decided is that he's on the fence. Add to that, Wilson wasn't entirely neutral. I think most people knew he was pro-EU membership in 1975. Members of the cult think this is another Corbyn masterstroke but they'll think that about everything he does. It's very uncertain this stance will have the same effect on the rest of the country. I think what he said the other night is probably what he should've said months ago. It makes sense to me, and I do think if certain people could put their dislike of Corbyn to one side and think carefully about it, they'd realise it's the most measured and sensible policy. As Deva Chanter said, I don't need to be told by a politician which way to vote in a referendum. In fact, I think a big reason why Remain lost is because Cameron and Osborne so publicly backed it, including wasting government money by sending a pro-Remain booklet to every household in the country. A lot of people just voted Leave to stick two fingers up at them.
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BREXIT
Nov 24, 2019 8:45:57 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Nov 24, 2019 8:45:57 GMT
BBC News’ economical with the truth editing policy continues, I see.
If you told a North Korean that you have to pay to be spoon-fed state propaganda or face prosecution, they would laugh at you.
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BREXIT
Nov 24, 2019 9:43:27 GMT
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Post by jb on Nov 24, 2019 9:43:27 GMT
Aye it isn’t even just Labour saying that, it’s the IFS too! Anything over about £25,500 per year is the top 50%! Surely that bloke must be walking around Bolton wondering why others are worse off than he is - the average wage in Bolton is 23k. Imagine that guy going in a pub and thinking "I bet that bastard barmaid is on £100K a year while I'm scraping by on £80K!" The problem is that the world is full of people like him who rant and rave, and even when they're told they're wrong and shown why, they still keep ranting. That idiot was still getting smatterings of applause while talking complete rubbish. On the other hand, perhaps there's nothing better for a politician than for a member of the public to have a go at them and make a fool of themself. That episode will have done Labour no harm at all. Imagine standing outside a factory and telling the company to pay their taxes and they respond by saying well we’ve paid 780 million last year and put billions into the economy in the past 10 years and created thousands of jobs over that period.
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BREXIT
Nov 24, 2019 9:46:11 GMT
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jb likes this
Post by South Wirral Blue on Nov 24, 2019 9:46:11 GMT
I do think if certain people could put their dislike of Corbyn to one side and think carefully about it, they'd realise it's the most measured and sensible policy. We're not going to agree on this which is fair enough and I get why he's doing it eventhough I'm not convinced it will work. I picked out the above though because it demonstrates how alien the idea of disagreeing with Corbyn is to some.
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Post by Ian H Block on Nov 24, 2019 10:38:37 GMT
Imagine that guy going in a pub and thinking "I bet that bastard barmaid is on £100K a year while I'm scraping by on £80K!" The problem is that the world is full of people like him who rant and rave, and even when they're told they're wrong and shown why, they still keep ranting. That idiot was still getting smatterings of applause while talking complete rubbish. On the other hand, perhaps there's nothing better for a politician than for a member of the public to have a go at them and make a fool of themself. That episode will have done Labour no harm at all. Imagine standing outside a factory and telling the company to pay their taxes and they respond by saying well we’ve paid 780 million last year and put billions into the economy in the past 10 years and created thousands of jobs over that period. Imagine believing Amazon paid £780million in corporation tax.
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BREXIT
Nov 24, 2019 11:46:29 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Nov 24, 2019 11:46:29 GMT
Imagine standing outside a factory and telling the company to pay their taxes and they respond by saying well we’ve paid 780 million last year and put billions into the economy in the past 10 years and created thousands of jobs over that period. Imagine believing Amazon paid £780million in corporation tax. When they actually paid £0.0
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Post by Jack on Nov 24, 2019 11:52:22 GMT
I see a man earning over £80K a year was ranting about Labour's tax plans on Question Time last night, arguing that he's not even in the top 50% of earners. In fact, he's comfortably in the top 5% on that kind of money. How do people so ignorant get so rich? This is what we're up against! This is the problem we have. Stupid people's vote count as much as the ones who bother to back up their opinion. That man is a classic example of where we've come to - he just shouted and shouted despite everybody in the room/at home/on the panel knowing he was totally incorrect. The age of facts to back up an opinion is long gone, it's amazing but people just don't want to hear logic and reason, it's irrelevant to them.
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BREXIT
Nov 24, 2019 17:41:50 GMT
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Post by Lobster on Nov 24, 2019 17:41:50 GMT
Imagine standing outside a factory and telling the company to pay their taxes and they respond by saying well we’ve paid 780 million last year and put billions into the economy in the past 10 years and created thousands of jobs over that period. Imagine believing Amazon paid £780million in corporation tax. Assuming he's talking about Amazon, their jobs and economic contribution is surely cancelled out by the damage they're almost single-handedly doing to the high street, especially since they are by all accounts not a good company to work for.
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BREXIT
Nov 24, 2019 17:44:18 GMT
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Post by Lobster on Nov 24, 2019 17:44:18 GMT
Quizzed today about the FactcheckUK debacle, Johnson ummed and aahed for about 30 seconds and then came out with something about how the only 'fact' we need to know is whether Jeremy Corbyn blah blah blah.
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BREXIT
Nov 24, 2019 17:49:04 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Nov 24, 2019 17:49:04 GMT
Quizzed today about the FactcheckUK debacle, Johnson ummed and aahed for about 30 seconds and then came out with something about how the only 'fact' we need to know is whether Jeremy Corbyn blah blah blah. The standard Corbyn Brexit line.
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