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Post by league2 on Jan 3, 2018 8:36:38 GMT
I know a lot of people on here don't like to here it but when you pay the lowest wages in the league you generally get the lowest standard of player and that's where we are at ,never mind blame the board, manager, CEO if you don't have enough money to compete you nine times out of ten will finish bottom .fans have to realize we don't get the crowds to compete in this league as a fan owned club and should be looking for someone to come in and back us .why not have 3,4,5 years of good times and enjoy the ride not every owner, backer of a football club is a crook we should be touting for one anything has got to be better than this drudgery we have to take every season
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Post by eyeswideopen on Jan 3, 2018 9:16:01 GMT
No thanks, we have had 3,4,5 years of good times as a fan owned model, we shouldn't be looking to abandon that model because we have hit a roadblock, we should be looking to adapt the model to suit the problem.
Good grief some people really do have short memories about being owned by someone with absolutely no morals.
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Post by Captain Duff on Jan 3, 2018 9:18:05 GMT
I know a lot of people on here don't like to here it but when you pay the lowest wages in the league you generally get the lowest standard of player and that's where we are at ,never mind blame the board, manager, CEO if you don't have enough money to compete you nine times out of ten will finish bottom .fans have to realize we don't get the crowds to compete in this league as a fan owned club and should be looking for someone to come in and back us .why not have 3,4,5 years of good times and enjoy the ride not every owner, backer of a football club is a crook we should be touting for one anything has got to be better than this drudgery we have to take every season That is why the fan owned goats were top of the league the other week I suppose? Why 3 clubs who have someone to baclk them are even lower in the league than us? Get what you pay for? I'd give you nothing for your intelligence...
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Post by Lobster on Jan 3, 2018 9:22:48 GMT
There are plenty of examples of supporter-owned clubs doing just fine:
AFC Wimbledon - in L1 Wycombe - playoff places in L2 Exeter - likewise Newport Country - top half of League 2, playing Leeds in the FA Cup this weekend.
Plus a certain one up the road not having a bad season.
You could say "but they all have more fans than us", but I think that's a cop-out. Exeter, Wycombe and Newport are historically not bigger clubs than us. In the Evo-Stik we were pushing 3,000 a game, but somewhere that momentum was lost. Really, with bigger away support and two big local games, we should be averaging over 3,000 these days. A sustained effort is needed to generate that kind of attendance, as that's what we're dependent on.
All this "we need an investor" stuff is lazy, unimaginative and short-sighted, I think.
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Post by league2 on Jan 3, 2018 9:32:00 GMT
As I said a lot of people on here don't like to here the realty of it ,I think you will find the clubs you have mentioned there have considerable backers or large income streams we have neither ,as for them down the road there crowds pay for a lot more than ours can .and I'll say it again not every owner ,backer are crooks
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Post by gezzer on Jan 3, 2018 10:06:02 GMT
There are plenty of examples of supporter-owned clubs doing just fine: AFC Wimbledon - in L1 Wycombe - playoff places in L2 Exeter - likewise Newport Country - top half of League 2, playing Leeds in the FA Cup this weekend. Plus a certain one up the road not having a bad season. You could say "but they all have more fans than us", but I think that's a cop-out. Exeter, Wycombe and Newport are historically not bigger clubs than us. In the Evo-Stik we were pushing 3,000 a game, but somewhere that momentum was lost. Really, with bigger away support and two big local games, we should be averaging over 3,000 these days. A sustained effort is needed to generate that kind of attendance, as that's what we're dependent on. All this "we need an investor" stuff is lazy, unimaginative and short-sighted, I think. ok, agree with this so $1m question Why haven't we kicked on?
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Post by richard on Jan 3, 2018 10:07:15 GMT
As I said a lot of people on here don't like to here the realty of it ,I think you will find the clubs you have mentioned there have considerable backers or large income streams we have neither ,as for them down the road there crowds pay for a lot more than ours can .and I'll say it again not every owner ,backer are crooks Well, you are correct when you say that all backers are not crooks. However, why would we give up our precious ownership model for anything? I accept the reality that you mention and if that means playing at the present level or below, ill take it all day long rather than Risk the alternatives. It's been said many times on this forum, but dear me, some people have short memories. What we have is certainly not perfect, there remains lots to do, loads to improve on and mistakes will be still be made along the way. Similarly, those same issues exist at every club, even those that are financially backed, but we don't get to hear about them so much as the attitude of the owner is, it's my way or the highway. It's a no Brainer To have 1000 owners who care for the club or some rich person who cares more about his ego. That's another slant on reality.
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Post by billyw on Jan 3, 2018 10:21:50 GMT
No thanks, we have had 3,4,5 years of good times as a fan owned model, we shouldn't be looking to abandon that model because we have hit a roadblock, we should be looking to adapt the model to suit the problem. Good grief some people really do have short memories about being owned by someone with absolutely no morals. The vast majority of teams in Leagues 1 and 2 are not fan owned and most of them operate without too many problems. Why do people think all owners are crooks, without morals, self-serving etc etc. Yes we have been unlucky with our recent ownership but is it right to dismiss the idea of future investors. It's a bit like having a succession of rough girlfriends before finding the right one. i know at my age I will never see league football again but we oldies can say we enjoyed our best ever times, watching our best ever teams. We have experienced playing in front of big crowds, League Cup semi-finals, challenging for promotion to what is now the Championship etc and it shows our dedication to the club that we are now forced to watch the non-league dross served up in recent years. Unfortunately as a fan-owned club those times will never return so the younger supporters will never know such great times but if people are happy 'just to have a club' and can settle for the anonymity of the National League North so be it.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jan 3, 2018 10:22:18 GMT
There are plenty of examples of supporter-owned clubs doing just fine: AFC Wimbledon - in L1 Wycombe - playoff places in L2 Exeter - likewise Newport Country - top half of League 2, playing Leeds in the FA Cup this weekend. Plus a certain one up the road not having a bad season. You could say "but they all have more fans than us", but I think that's a cop-out. Exeter, Wycombe and Newport are historically not bigger clubs than us. In the Evo-Stik we were pushing 3,000 a game, but somewhere that momentum was lost. Really, with bigger away support and two big local games, we should be averaging over 3,000 these days. A sustained effort is needed to generate that kind of attendance, as that's what we're dependent on. All this "we need an investor" stuff is lazy, unimaginative and short-sighted, I think. Spot on. We don't need an investor. We need to get our act together.
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Post by richard on Jan 3, 2018 10:28:03 GMT
There are plenty of examples of supporter-owned clubs doing just fine: AFC Wimbledon - in L1 Wycombe - playoff places in L2 Exeter - likewise Newport Country - top half of League 2, playing Leeds in the FA Cup this weekend. Plus a certain one up the road not having a bad season. You could say "but they all have more fans than us", but I think that's a cop-out. Exeter, Wycombe and Newport are historically not bigger clubs than us. In the Evo-Stik we were pushing 3,000 a game, but somewhere that momentum was lost. Really, with bigger away support and two big local games, we should be averaging over 3,000 these days. A sustained effort is needed to generate that kind of attendance, as that's what we're dependent on. All this "we need an investor" stuff is lazy, unimaginative and short-sighted, I think. ok, agree with this so $1m question Why haven't we kicked on? Because success or how it is perceived is rarely linear. There are some unassailable facts that are relevant in this debate. Winning football matches attracts more paying fans. That in turn will release more fund for ( hopefully) better players and so on. We reached a point when we enjoyed our third promotion where we suddenly found it to be a different ball game, literally. We could have kicked on, but we didn't and lessons were not learned and people made mistakes, because that's what human beings do. I totally accept that we should have been able to consolidate in the National league and kick on, but we are where we are and despite all this depressive talk of giving up and sentiments of doom, we have to gird our loins and go again. It won't always be like this. Times will change and let's hope that is soon eh?
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Post by league2 on Jan 3, 2018 10:29:46 GMT
What would your stance be if someone came along with a reputation for open and honest dealings and wanted to take the club forward with the help of there millions would they be turned away
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Post by Al on Jan 3, 2018 10:32:57 GMT
What would your stance be if someone came along with a reputation for open and honest dealings and wanted to take the club forward with the help of there millions would they be turned away I'd say that person doesn't exist and you're living in dream land.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Jan 3, 2018 10:33:53 GMT
We can survive in this league if we had proper leadership from people who understand what's best for the club and who get on and do it. People who make difficult decisions but get them right.
Regrettably, we've been run like a pub team.
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Post by richard on Jan 3, 2018 10:44:38 GMT
What would your stance be if someone came along with a reputation for open and honest dealings and wanted to take the club forward with the help of there millions would they be turned away I'd say that person doesn't exist and you're living in dream land.
Well, it would be up to the membership to decide. I know that people can donate if they wish to, but apart from a few notable exceptions who are fans and donate what they can, nobody is queuing up are they? Either way, my own view remains that our ownership model is not for dilution.
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Post by Al on Jan 3, 2018 10:48:46 GMT
ok, agree with this so $1m question Why haven't we kicked on? Because success or how it is perceived is rarely linear. There are some unassailable facts that are relevant in this debate. Winning football matches attracts more paying fans. That in turn will release more fund for ( hopefully) better players and so on. We reached a point when we enjoyed our third promotion where we suddenly found it to be a different ball game, literally. We could have kicked on, but we didn't and lessons were not learned and people made mistakes, because that's what human beings do. I totally accept that we should have been able to consolidate in the National league and kick on, but we are where we are and despite all this depressive talk of giving up and sentiments of doom, we have to gird our loins and go again. It won't always be like this. Times will change and let's hope that is soon eh? Winning football matches does appeal to some people, but then affordability also plays a massive part of that.
Unfortunately we found that despite winning the Conference North with record breaking stats, our average gate was down on the season before. This has to be down to cost.
People start picking and choosing which games they wish to attend due to the increase in admission. Remember that the average persons wage growth has been slowing for a number of years, and will no doubt again this year be under the rate of inflation. People have been feeling the squeeze for a number of years, whilst we have continued to increase our admission.
Coupled also with the issues and the poor attitude of successive boards to Fundraising, and the disbanding of the previous fundraising committee. They were the one's who started the Car Boot Sales at the ground, before MM brought in a third party company to run them, where have those Car Boot Sales gone now?
It seems that as a club, the officials we elect, and I am not just on about the one's we have in charge now, but previous boards as well, will try an initiative once, and if it doesn't necessarily work the first time they bin it off and move onto the next 'get rich quick scheme' without necessarily understanding how or why the last one failed to take off.
The Bignot Budget Builder is a prime example of this. Hardly pushed via Social Media, very few updates on the amount raised, and then the failure to introduce the 'exciting initiative' before Christmas.
Why does it all feel so half-arsed all the time?
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Post by league2 on Jan 3, 2018 10:48:59 GMT
Thank you Richard well let's watch this space as they say 👏
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Post by sqzl on Jan 3, 2018 10:51:27 GMT
No thanks, we have had 3,4,5 years of good times as a fan owned model, we shouldn't be looking to abandon that model because we have hit a roadblock, we should be looking to adapt the model to suit the problem. Good grief some people really do have short memories about being owned by someone with absolutely no morals. The vast majority of teams in Leagues 1 and 2 are not fan owned and most of them operate without too many problems. Why do people think all owners are crooks, without morals, self-serving etc etc. Yes we have been unlucky with our recent ownership but is it right to dismiss the idea of future investors. It's a bit like having a succession of rough girlfriends before finding the right one. i know at my age I will never see league football again but we oldies can say we enjoyed our best ever times, watching our best ever teams. We have experienced playing in front of big crowds, League Cup semi-finals, challenging for promotion to what is now the Championship etc and it shows our dedication to the club that we are now forced to watch the non-league dross served up in recent years. Unfortunately as a fan-owned club those times will never return so the younger supporters will never know such great times but if people are happy 'just to have a club' and can settle for the anonymity of the National League North so be it. Don't be so negative Billy and get yourself down to Crewe for one last hoorah Joking aside, i agree with this post, i'd rather be winning games in the NN than battling bankruptcy with some owner that doesn't share our support for the club in this league.
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Post by richard on Jan 3, 2018 11:09:26 GMT
No thanks, we have had 3,4,5 years of good times as a fan owned model, we shouldn't be looking to abandon that model because we have hit a roadblock, we should be looking to adapt the model to suit the problem. Good grief some people really do have short memories about being owned by someone with absolutely no morals. The vast majority of teams in Leagues 1 and 2 are not fan owned and most of them operate without too many problems. Why do people think all owners are crooks, without morals, self-serving etc etc. Yes we have been unlucky with our recent ownership but is it right to dismiss the idea of future investors. It's a bit like having a succession of rough girlfriends before finding the right one. i know at my age I will never see league football again but we oldies can say we enjoyed our best ever times, watching our best ever teams. We have experienced playing in front of big crowds, League Cup semi-finals, challenging for promotion to what is now the Championship etc and it shows our dedication to the club that we are now forced to watch the non-league dross served up in recent years. Unfortunately as a fan-owned club those times will never return so the younger supporters will never know such great times but if people are happy 'just to have a club' and can settle for the anonymity of the National League North so be it. Hi Billy. It's really interesting that we come from a similar generation, yet we have different views😁 Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong nor that I'm right. I too, loved the experience you describe, however, the years after we reformed are for the most part the happiest for me. It obviously helped that the first three seasons were championship campaigns, but that wasn't the main reason. I kind of fell in love with football again and the lesson of visiting such lovely welcoming grass roots clubs, often run for the love of it and for the community will live with me for ever. That said, you should not confuse those comments as having a lack of ambition for our club to return to League football, but not if that means selling out to an investor, however well meaning the initial approach may be. I don't want footballing success on the HP. Ultimately, there is a payback and given our financial history, I have no faith that an investor would make money at CFC and would eventually drop us with serious consequences. Let's not forget that even in those happy times you describe, we often had bad seasons, regularly going cap in hand for re election
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Jan 3, 2018 11:24:56 GMT
This has been done to death. Why would anyone want to sink millions unto Chester F.C. for zilch in return? Some people really do need to give their heads a wobble and stop living in fantasy land
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Post by rcb on Jan 3, 2018 11:52:01 GMT
5000 people turned up to watch Chester v Northwich a few years ago. There remains only 1400, so clearly 72% of that potential crowd have chosen not to maintain their support. Of the remaining 28% I daresay a significant number are considering their future. I have seen no constructive efforts to attract a new audience, and certainly the recent standards of first team performances have nothing to attract the neutral. We get a new member on this chat forum who politely expresses an opinion, and immediately gets insulted. With attitudes like that I’m not surprised the club is in a malaise.
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Post by eyeswideopen on Jan 3, 2018 11:55:20 GMT
No thanks, we have had 3,4,5 years of good times as a fan owned model, we shouldn't be looking to abandon that model because we have hit a roadblock, we should be looking to adapt the model to suit the problem. Good grief some people really do have short memories about being owned by someone with absolutely no morals. The vast majority of teams in Leagues 1 and 2 are not fan owned and most of them operate without too many problems. Why do people think all owners are crooks, without morals, self-serving etc etc. Yes we have been unlucky with our recent ownership but is it right to dismiss the idea of future investors. It's a bit like having a succession of rough girlfriends before finding the right one. i know at my age I will never see league football again but we oldies can say we enjoyed our best ever times, watching our best ever teams. We have experienced playing in front of big crowds, League Cup semi-finals, challenging for promotion to what is now the Championship etc and it shows our dedication to the club that we are now forced to watch the non-league dross served up in recent years. Unfortunately as a fan-owned club those times will never return so the younger supporters will never know such great times but if people are happy 'just to have a club' and can settle for the anonymity of the National League North so be it. I disagree that we have been unlucky with recent ownership, we have been stitched over by owner after owner as long as I have been a supporter (nearly 35 years) Barnes Morrisons Shand Gutterman Smith Vaughan
Unlucky I don't think so.
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Post by oldnotdecrepit on Jan 3, 2018 12:11:02 GMT
We get a new member on this chat forum who politely expresses an opinion, and immediately gets told he is an “idiot”. With attitudes like that I’m not surprised the club is in a malaise. Well said. At the end of the day we all have the football club in common and are supporters. It’s a real shame that some (?) See it fit to ridicule others, Times are hard enough. I just ignore those posts and focus on the vast number of folk who read and respect views whether supportive or otherwise. This board is proving to be a huge success in giving a platform for views, hats off for opening it. 👍. Thank you.
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Post by soulseal on Jan 3, 2018 13:08:22 GMT
The problem with being a football fan is that we rarely have the success we yearn for and come to expect. My first season as a supporter was 75 in the old third division and this is where my I think as a club we should be, even through it was only for a decade in our clubs entire history that we achieved that level. Fans complained then as now.
The decline from those years mainly came through bad ownership, more interested in development of the site than the club or as a money laundering exercise and we are a smaller club now as a result, and only through the actions of fans still exist.
The most important fact for me is continued existence on a commercial basis. Success won’t come easy. We had a great start getting to the National league after 3 seasons and have found our level. The continuing struggle has led to a negative attitude and bad decisions in attempt to maintain our level. I have backed some of those bad decisions as my hindsight only occurs afterwards.
Bad decisions will always be part of running a club at our level, we won’t get everything right, and I now believe relegation will allow us to calm down, re-group on and off the field and start moving forward again with a model of developing youth both from our club ( eg Sam Hughes) and from others (Ben Heneghan). I am confident that winning a majority of home games will bring a feel good factor back the the Deva and encourage attendances at affordable prices.
Who will be the right manager, CEO, board to achieve this remains to be seen, but I will be tending to support those with a positive longer view and gradual development model.
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Post by jb on Jan 3, 2018 13:20:55 GMT
Well we are rumoured to be paying over £50k to someone who is making mistake after mistake off the field.
Are the board being regular reports on what is being done in terms of off field activities and developments by our CEO?
What presence is being shown in the Ellesmere Port, Neston areas etc?
It just seems a bit of a lazy shambles at the min and it is the same fans who are expected to keep the club going.
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Post by Lobster on Jan 3, 2018 13:35:55 GMT
As I said a lot of people on here don't like to here the realty of it ,I think you will find the clubs you have mentioned there have considerable backers or large income streams we have neither ,as for them down the road there crowds pay for a lot more than ours can .and I'll say it again not every owner ,backer are crooks It's true that not every owner is a crook, but what I'd counter that with is to say that there can't be a single lower league club that hasn't, at some point, been in serious danger of being wound up. This, when it happens, is due to bad or irresponsible owners. We should know that better than anyone. Even if we had a brilliant, well-intentioned backer, it's only a temporary solution. What if they run out of money, lose interest or, as we all will, pass away? Look at Blackburn - in Jack Walker they had possibly the model chairman who just put a load of money into his local club as a labour of love and let the manager get on with his job. He's now passed away, and it hasn't gone too well for them since, as they needed to find a private owner to replace him. And there isn't exactly another multi-millionaire Blackburn Rovers fan around to bankroll his club without wanting something in return. Fan ownership is a permanent solution. Supporting Chester gets passed down from one generation to the next, so there will always be owners with the best intentions of the club at heart. The only way the model will not work is if large numbers of our supporters refuse to accept it and instead decide they favour a path that has previously failed us on several occasions.
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Post by livinginhope on Jan 3, 2018 13:41:54 GMT
As I said a lot of people on here don't like to here the realty of it ,I think you will find the clubs you have mentioned there have considerable backers or large income streams we have neither ,as for them down the road there crowds pay for a lot more than ours can .and I'll say it again not every owner ,backer are crooks It's true that not every owner is a crook, but what I'd counter that with is to say that there can't be a single lower league club that hasn't, at some point, been in serious danger of being wound up. This, when it happens, is due to bad or irresponsible owners. We should know that better than anyone. Even if we had a brilliant, well-intentioned backer, it's only a temporary solution. What if they run out of money, lose interest or, as we all will, pass away? Look at Blackburn - in Jack Walker they had possibly the model chairman who just put a load of money into his local club as a labour of love and let the manager get on with his job. He's now passed away, and it hasn't gone too well for them since, as they needed to find a private owner to replace him. And there isn't exactly another multi-millionaire Blackburn Rovers fan around to bankroll his club without wanting something in return. Fan ownership is a permanent solution. Supporting Chester gets passed down from one generation to the next, so there will always be owners with the best intentions of the club at heart. The only way the model will not work is if large numbers of our supporters refuse to accept it and instead decide they favour a path that has previously failed us on several occasions. Great post Lobster, fully agree.
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gaz
Junior Member
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Post by gaz on Jan 3, 2018 15:03:54 GMT
As I said a lot of people on here don't like to here the realty of it ,I think you will find the clubs you have mentioned there have considerable backers or large income streams we have neither ,as for them down the road there crowds pay for a lot more than ours can .and I'll say it again not every owner ,backer are crooks It's true that not every owner is a crook, but what I'd counter that with is to say that there can't be a single lower league club that hasn't, at some point, been in serious danger of being wound up. This, when it happens, is due to bad or irresponsible owners. We should know that better than anyone. Even if we had a brilliant, well-intentioned backer, it's only a temporary solution. What if they run out of money, lose interest or, as we all will, pass away? Look at Blackburn - in Jack Walker they had possibly the model chairman who just put a load of money into his local club as a labour of love and let the manager get on with his job. He's now passed away, and it hasn't gone too well for them since, as they needed to find a private owner to replace him. And there isn't exactly another multi-millionaire Blackburn Rovers fan around to bankroll his club without wanting something in return. Fan ownership is a permanent solution. Supporting Chester gets passed down from one generation to the next, so there will always be owners with the best intentions of the club at heart. The only way the model will not work is if large numbers of our supporters refuse to accept it and instead decide they favour a path that has previously failed us on several occasions.fan owners with the best intentions are one thing ....fan owners prepared to continually put their hand in their pocket to finance the club is another.... for fan ownership to work the owners ie the fans must be prepared to put their hands in their pockets in the good times and more so in the bad ones.... unfortunately there are not enough fans financing the club to maintain a presence at this level. There isn't a white knight on the horizon and let's be honest if "fans" can't be bothered to pay "£20" to support their club and watch a game what sort of individual is going to put hundreds of thousands into a club to raise the standard....
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Post by rcb on Jan 3, 2018 16:15:50 GMT
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Post by billyw on Jan 3, 2018 17:18:02 GMT
It's true that not every owner is a crook, but what I'd counter that with is to say that there can't be a single lower league club that hasn't, at some point, been in serious danger of being wound up. This, when it happens, is due to bad or irresponsible owners. We should know that better than anyone. Even if we had a brilliant, well-intentioned backer, it's only a temporary solution. What if they run out of money, lose interest or, as we all will, pass away? Look at Blackburn - in Jack Walker they had possibly the model chairman who just put a load of money into his local club as a labour of love and let the manager get on with his job. He's now passed away, and it hasn't gone too well for them since, as they needed to find a private owner to replace him. And there isn't exactly another multi-millionaire Blackburn Rovers fan around to bankroll his club without wanting something in return. Fan ownership is a permanent solution. Supporting Chester gets passed down from one generation to the next, so there will always be owners with the best intentions of the club at heart. The only way the model will not work is if large numbers of our supporters refuse to accept it and instead decide they favour a path that has previously failed us on several occasions.fan owners with the best intentions are one thing ....fan owners prepared to continually put their hand in their pocket to finance the club is another.... for fan ownership to work the owners ie the fans must be prepared to put their hands in their pockets in the good times and more so in the bad ones.... unfortunately there are not enough fans financing the club to maintain a presence at this level. There isn't a white knight on the horizon and let's be honest if "fans" can't be bothered to pay "£20" to support their club and watch a game what sort of individual is going to put hundreds of thousands into a club to raise the standard.... Agreed. Fan ownership is a great concept but there are two requirements if a club wants to play at a reasonable level 1. must have a decent sized fan base (we don't) and 2. fans must buy into the concept and dig deep into their pockets (ours don't). Our rivals down the road endorse fan- ownership, have a much larger fan base, join their Supporters Association in large numbers and don't constantly complain about the cost of attending games. Hence the reason fan-ownership can work for them at National League level or above but not for us. The stark reality is that unless the Chester public are prepared to support the club in greater numbers we are punching above our weight and even the National League will be beyond us.
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Post by sirfred on Jan 3, 2018 17:35:33 GMT
It's true to usually say you get what you pay for but I remember a certain Harry Mcnally once having the lowest budget in league 1 he managed to pull together a great squad with the likes of Barry Butler Neil Morton Carl Dale to name a few it can be done on a budget but from scratch like Askey has done at Macclesfield - unfortunately we have assembled a hideous pack of hounds who are either ready for the knackers yard or are out of their depth - we can keep kidding ourselves they will come good but it ain't going to happen- So in a nutshell yes money gets you the cream but it can be done on a budget but ours is shot
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