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Post by sirfred on Feb 18, 2017 19:42:49 GMT
In agreeing a long 2 and a half year deal with Macca. Firstly don't get me wrong I like the man and his dedication but am so dissapointing to see his season capitulate since Christmas and he doesn't appear to know how to address the downturn - he keeps purring about the past but it is what it is the past we no longer keep clean sheets or know how to win a game - he sticks with one up top and in my opinion is showing his lack of experience - hopefully he can learn from this that a season is a season and not just the first 3 months - what amazes me is that since Christmas there has been no desire - setting lowly targets and not being pro- active in bringing in players in transfer windows to strengthen and freshen up the squad- injuries have not helped but you have to expect that - if it's about budget then perhaps the Club need to hold back to inject something for the crucial January window as so often a season can go downhill from then as we are experiencing - we are stale and I'm worried the teams beneath are clawing us back- I think the Club should have waited before offering such a long Managerial Contract that has effectively hamstrung is now for years
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Post by dmcnally on Feb 18, 2017 20:01:38 GMT
Simple answer no - IF we can get a new assistant with expertise in defensive work.....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 20:07:26 GMT
No.
In my opinion he's still the right man for us. We're 12th and more than 3/4 of the way through campaign, I'd have taken that happily pre-season.
I do question his first XI and tactics right now but I'm backing him to get it right. We are a good side but have had terrible luck as well this season.
Slightly optimistic but I think we'll turn it round on Saturday and kick start our season a little bit, and reach that 50 point mark at least with games to spare.
I'm in the camp of thinking we were right to give him a 2 1/2 year contract. I think he's perfect for the club, there's not many others out there (I don't ever want us becoming a Southport with their merry go round of managers).
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Post by Helsby Blue on Feb 18, 2017 20:19:30 GMT
No. In my opinion he's still the right man for us. We're 12th and more than 3/4 of the way through campaign, I'd have taken that happily pre-season. I do question his first XI and tactics right now but I'm backing him to get it right. We are a good side but have had terrible luck as well this season. Slightly optimistic but I think we'll turn it round on Saturday and kick start our season a little bit, and reach that 50 point mark at least with games to spare. I'm in the camp of thinking we were right to give him a 2 1/2 year contract. I think he's perfect for the club, there's not many others out there (I don't ever want us becoming a Southport with their merry go round of managers). Macca is definitely the right man for the job, no question. My concern is, is he ruthless enough to make wholesale changes to the team resulting in upsetting underperforming individuals or is that positive persona and likeable nature the type of style he wants to convey to the players so they continually think, he has my back even if I play poorly. We are missing a strong number 2 on match days to ruffle some feathers.
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Post by MPW on Feb 18, 2017 21:47:53 GMT
I think he's the right man for the job, but he really does needs to get back to basics with the team and tactics. All season he has said that the target was 50 points and that he always prefers 442. But in recent weeks he seems to have abandoned his own methods saying that we're trying a few things to try and break into the top 7 or 8.
Defensively, we need to get back to the Astles/Hughes pairing in the middle that worked so well earlier in the season. Same situation having Shaw/Lloyd partnership in midfield. George, Hudson and Joyce aren't good enough imo.
Southport is a huge match for us now, lose and we are starring down the barrel with a run of very tough games to come, but I think we will pick up enough points to make us safe by the end of the season.
Only at Chester can a team go from being very tough to beat with play off aspirations to looking like relegation material. Remember Curle and Williamson?
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Post by banksy on Feb 19, 2017 0:15:32 GMT
A matter of weeks ago we were still talking about the play offs being a possibility. Obviously things have turned for the worse in the last few weeks, but for me, Jon deserved the chance to build on what had been a successful start to his first full season as manager.
Can't speak for everyone but I'm sure the majority believed a mid table position would've been an achievement in itself this season. Just got to get over the line now with two more wins.
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Post by Cestrian For Life on Feb 19, 2017 7:11:24 GMT
I blame Steve Burr. It's all his fault! Funny how the same thing that happened with Burr is now happening with Macca as Manager. There has been one constant in the past few years, not Burr, not the Board or chairman but Jon McCarthy. I quite like him as a person so I hope he gets us back on path but it is a bit worrying.
Play-off talk was ridiculous, there is no way this club will be pushing for the play-offs for many years. I'm actually fairly comfortable with mid-table mediocrity for a few years anyway. I think we'll be ok this season again. Just. But we are only 10 points clear of a relegation spot so we must get a few wins from somewhere.
It does make you wonder what goes on at our Club at Christmas to have these downturns.
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Post by Firestick Frank on Feb 19, 2017 7:30:40 GMT
Our mistake was not adequately replacing Ian Sharps.
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Post by histsci on Feb 19, 2017 15:01:15 GMT
I saw on twitter that the Cowleys have put a large part of their recent success down to having been teachers. McCarthy has a similar background and has clearly made several players better, which is very exciting. He's getting a few bits wrong tactically and with team selection at the minute, but he'll learn. I have confidence in him, though perhaps we should think about having Iwelumo just as a coach (Alabi's certainly improved recently) and get another assistant manager in.
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Post by Hannibal on Feb 19, 2017 15:46:52 GMT
No. In my opinion he's still the right man for us. We're 12th and more than 3/4 of the way through campaign, I'd have taken that happily pre-season. I do question his first XI and tactics right now but I'm backing him to get it right. We are a good side but have had terrible luck as well this season. Slightly optimistic but I think we'll turn it round on Saturday and kick start our season a little bit, and reach that 50 point mark at least with games to spare. I'm in the camp of thinking we were right to give him a 2 1/2 year contract. I think he's perfect for the club, there's not many others out there (I don't ever want us becoming a Southport with their merry go round of managers). I think 12th is a false position. We were 12th after the Wrexham game and we've lost 4 on the bounce since then. I think 50 points has to be the next target and the way we're conceding at the moment another 7 points looks distant. I've been assured that Sam Hughes will be back at CH for the Southport game and our back 4 will have a more solid look with Killock playing RB and Hunt LB. Better than the shambles in the first half at Maidstone. To be honest if we'd been 7-0 down we couldn't have complained. After/if we get to 50 then the next target will be to beat the 54 we had last season. Difficult ask. I said at the start of the season that we'd finish 17th and I'll stick with that.
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Post by Hannibal on Feb 19, 2017 15:53:47 GMT
I saw on twitter that the Cowleys have put a large part of their recent success down to having been teachers. McCarthy has a similar background and has clearly made several players better, which is very exciting. He's getting a few bits wrong tactically and with team selection at the minute, but he'll learn. I have confidence in him, though perhaps we should think about having Iwelumo just as a coach (Alabi's certainly improved recently) and get another assistant manager in. I agree with what you say about assistant manager, but you've got to realise that we couldn't even find £2k yesterday for an overnight stay. The fact is that the financial landscape isn't going to improve unless we can conjure up what Lincoln City and Sutton have done this season.
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Post by tarvinblue on Feb 19, 2017 17:32:45 GMT
A two and a half year contract is a huge commitment for a club with our financial resources. That is a real vote of confidence, particularly keeping in mind it was dished out at the half way point of a season where we have been knocked out of both cup competitions early. In reality, it has been earned off the back of a decent couple of months pre-Christmas, which left us in the dizzy heights of the top 10. I sincerely hope that Macca can re-group and push on but there are doubts that continue to hover around him. In particular his ability to recruit is an issue and now there is a nagging doubt about whether it was actually Sharps's organisational ability that had us on that run. I can only hope that the finer details of his new contract mean that there are get-outs if things don't work out as we really don't want to be in the position we were in with Burr. Hopefully the club has learned from that but this seems to have been a decision based on emotion. He has hardly delivered the kind of success that the Cowley's delivered at Braintree last season on a similar budget.
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Post by Paul Da Part on Feb 19, 2017 18:53:14 GMT
Macca deserved an extension to his current contract, but not by two and a half years. For us, a club with limited finances, it's a huge gamble to be honest. I'd have given it another year and see where we go from there. He's not a bad manager, he's surpassed expectations this season and if you'd have said in August we'd be in our current position, clear of any real relegation danger, then I'd have taken it with both hands. For that reason alone, he deserves the new deal. I can see why the club want stability and want to avoid chopping and changing needlessly, but what if things do go drastically wrong? We need new blood in the summer that's a certainty. Progress has been very, VERY slow but steady since promotion to the National League, but it's progress nonetheless but it's a results business. We have a long run of bad form and the fans will, understandably, want action taken to halt the slide. I just hope there is a clause in the new contract. We most definitely do not want a situation similar to the one we had with Steve Burr. I hope the mistakes have been learned from that. In a perfect world, we'll have a great 2 1/2 years ahead, but we are Chester and it's never been easy. Nor will it ever be busy. Take the rough with the smooth.
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Post by Arrogant Blue on Feb 19, 2017 21:09:04 GMT
The club need to get McCarthy a proper assistant and a Scout. He's made a pigs ear of the past two games and must surely have learnt from those two games. I expect a massive improvement in the next two games.
My only concern about McCarthy is whether he is ruthless enough. Players like George and Durrell are letting him down each week and yet he persists with them. He should've binned George off after the biting incident and Durrell spends a fair bit of time each game having a childish tantrum.
Good managers have that ruthless streak in them and as yet we don't know whether McCarthy has it in him!
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Post by Colin Cohan on Feb 19, 2017 21:20:51 GMT
Simple answer no - IF we can get a new assistant with expertise in defensive work..... SMITHERS !
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Post by btb on Feb 19, 2017 22:18:40 GMT
I don't think we've made a mistake. JM understands the club. He works extremely hard and several players have come on leaps and bounds under his coaching. We need to back him and support him through this. As AB says further up, I worry that his loyalty to certain players seems to know no bounds. Also the last couple of weeks has been a tactical disaster for the boss. In fairness he hasn't been helped by Richards loss of form and Mahon's injury. The only other two forward options are Durrell and Chappell and both are a bit hit and miss at best.
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Post by border collie on Feb 19, 2017 23:56:16 GMT
No manager at our club should be on anything more than an annual rolling contract .
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Post by sqzl on Feb 20, 2017 0:12:21 GMT
JM is a decent person, there's no way he would fleas us if we wanted him to step down next season at any point. He'd expect some for of pay out, as anyone would being made unemployed, but i'm confident that won't be necessary. December play-off talk, February we question the manager, only on Deva Chat. I know form is poor nobody can deny that, but we're an average conference side and people expect too much. Let's see who he brings in over Summer.
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Post by Jack on Feb 20, 2017 12:19:28 GMT
I really don't think we've made a mistake. I think we've made a very shrewd appointment and JM will make us punch way above our weight. Time will tell.
A sticky run of form is just that. It's not a disaster and I've faith he'll put things right at Southport.
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Post by Wortleyblue on Feb 20, 2017 13:28:15 GMT
I dont think we have made a mistake at all. I think it was a good appointment and gives stability to the club and allows JM time to build on the foundations he has laid this season. Yes this current run is worrying but from what I saw on saturday the answer right in front of him and that is to continue with the formation used in in the second half. Im sure JM will see this aswell after all he is not losing matches on purpose is he but must see something different in training to overcome the injury & suspension problems. Lets hope with the likes of Killock regaining fitness and Hunt back from suspension better options are available to him
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Post by sqzl on Feb 20, 2017 15:29:18 GMT
I dont think we have made a mistake at all. I think it was a good appointment and gives stability to the club and allows JM time to build on the foundations he has laid this season. Yes this current run is worrying but from what I saw on saturday the answer right in front of him and that is to continue with the formation used in in the second half. Im sure JM will see this aswell after all he is not losing matches on purpose is he but must see something different in training to overcome the injury & suspension problems. Lets hope with the likes of Killock regaining fitness and Hunt back from suspension better options are available to him The fact their centre back told Richards he should have started thw game at FT, tells you everything about the game.
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Post by Hannibal on Feb 20, 2017 16:28:32 GMT
I just hope that we're looking back at the end of the season and all accepting that these 4 defeats were a massive learning curve for McCarthy. I'm trying to generate a bit of positivity because how we go on from here will have a massive affect on how many season tickets we sell in the summer. Btw the spin from the club this season was that season ticket sales held up this season, but someone told me on Saturday that ST sales this season were significantly down on last season. They could be further affected if we limp over the line this season.
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Post by eyeswideopen on Feb 20, 2017 16:47:50 GMT
I dont think we have made a mistake at all. I think it was a good appointment and gives stability to the club and allows JM time to build on the foundations he has laid this season. Yes this current run is worrying but from what I saw on saturday the answer right in front of him and that is to continue with the formation used in in the second half. Im sure JM will see this aswell after all he is not losing matches on purpose is he but must see something different in training to overcome the injury & suspension problems. Lets hope with the likes of Killock regaining fitness and Hunt back from suspension better options are available to him The fact their centre back told Richards he should have started thw game at FT, tells you everything about the game. I take it their CB hasn't seen Richards play much lately.
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Post by eyeswideopen on Feb 20, 2017 16:48:50 GMT
The club need to get McCarthy a proper assistant and a Scout. He's made a pigs ear of the past two games and must surely have learnt from those two games. I expect a massive improvement in the next two games. My only concern about McCarthy is whether he is ruthless enough. Players like George and Durrell are letting him down each week and yet he persists with them. He should've binned George off after the biting incident and Durrell spends a fair bit of time each game having a childish tantrum. Good managers have that ruthless streak in them and as yet we don't know whether McCarthy has it in him! Ask Ryan Higgins whether he has that in him or not.
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Post by Arrogant Blue on Feb 20, 2017 17:00:19 GMT
The club need to get McCarthy a proper assistant and a Scout. He's made a pigs ear of the past two games and must surely have learnt from those two games. I expect a massive improvement in the next two games. My only concern about McCarthy is whether he is ruthless enough. Players like George and Durrell are letting him down each week and yet he persists with them. He should've binned George off after the biting incident and Durrell spends a fair bit of time each game having a childish tantrum. Good managers have that ruthless streak in them and as yet we don't know whether McCarthy has it in him! Ask Ryan Higgins whether he has that in him or not. Didn't he offer Higgins a new contract though? This was despite the fact that he was the worst player (Bar Hobson) last season. Constantly caught out of position, hospital backpasses and lack of physicality. If the club retain the likes of George, Durrell, Chappell, Joyce et al and have to let go of Lynch, Hughes and Alabi then I really do fear for us next season. McCarthy has to be ruthless in the closed season with the above named perpetrators of the recent demise.
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Post by chesterken on Feb 20, 2017 17:28:08 GMT
Why on Earth would we let Lynch go he will be the number 1 next season, the other 2 will be going but we can do nothing about that other than use the money wisely
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 17:39:53 GMT
I think a combination of depression with the current run of form and frustration with the poor performances is, NATURALLY, influencing people's opinions.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing - the fact is that we are where we are with Macca. Maybe, 2 1/2 year contract IS too much for an unproven manager but we're stuck with it as there's a cost to replace him if we chose to take that path, money we don't have + there's no guarantee a replacement would do any better within the constraints he would have to operate.
I've said it before, Macca has not become a bad manager but he's still raw and will make mistakes. Of course, he should not be above CONSTRUCTIVE criticism but as long he's big enough to accept it, act upon it AS HE SEES FIT, and we see the improvement we all crave, I believe he will retain the fan's support.
I genuinely don't think there's a HUGE amount wrong that a "back to basics" approach + PROPER assistance for Macca + the confidence that comes from a win won't fix.
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Post by richard on Feb 20, 2017 18:10:54 GMT
In agreeing a long 2 and a half year deal with Macca. Firstly don't get me wrong I like the man and his dedication but am so dissapointing to see his season capitulate since Christmas and he doesn't appear to know how to address the downturn - he keeps purring about the past but it is what it is the past we no longer keep clean sheets or know how to win a game - he sticks with one up top and in my opinion is showing his lack of experience - hopefully he can learn from this that a season is a season and not just the first 3 months - what amazes me is that since Christmas there has been no desire - setting lowly targets and not being pro- active in bringing in players in transfer windows to strengthen and freshen up the squad- injuries have not helped but you have to expect that - if it's about budget then perhaps the Club need to hold back to inject something for the crucial January window as so often a season can go downhill from then as we are experiencing - we are stale and I'm worried the teams beneath are clawing us back- I think the Club should have waited before offering such a long Managerial Contract that has effectively hamstrung is now for years No mistake. Jon is the right man for the job at Chester FC.
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Post by Krankie's Ghost on Feb 20, 2017 18:27:45 GMT
He's been offered constructive criticism a few times by Neil Turner but does get a little defensive.
Refusing to blame shape for Gateshead the latest example
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Post by ivorbigblue1 on Feb 20, 2017 21:22:10 GMT
The club need to get McCarthy a proper assistant and a Scout. He's made a pigs ear of the past two games and must surely have learnt from those two games. I expect a massive improvement in the next two games. My only concern about McCarthy is whether he is ruthless enough. Players like George and Durrell are letting him down each week and yet he persists with them. He should've binned George off after the biting incident and Durrell spends a fair bit of time each game having a childish tantrum. Good managers have that ruthless streak in them and as yet we don't know whether McCarthy has it in him! The club can't win and the players are never good enough for some, why don't you stick to supporting our club rather than slagging off our manager and players. If the club didn't signed Macca the results continued then he would have been lured to a bigger club, then you would moan that the board are assholes and messed up. Luke George won his appeal, he was backed by the management and board, but still you have to put the boot in. You cant help but moan. Durrell can be up and down, but he has enough about him to play at this level. Do you want Steve Burr back? no matter what this team does they will be the better for signing macca and he sees the positives in players that you can't. Why don't you join the Wrexscum fans forum and cry with the goats.
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