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Post by hbomb on Apr 14, 2018 10:14:11 GMT
This is on the board. If they want people to attend they have to make more effort to advertise the games. School tickets etc. The product simply has to be better and we have to be ready to start in August. A poor start could be a death blow to the club. We are on thin ice. There is little good will for the board and club. It won’t take much for people to have had enough. Blaming fans for not turning up will only alienate fans more.
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Post by Little Blue Boy on Apr 14, 2018 10:16:11 GMT
I cannot believe next season we are budgeting for 1700 crowds, have we not learned anything from this season ! We should be budgeting for about 1300 max as this is realism at the moment , also it is ridiculous to stay full time with a tiny budget. What sort of players are going to play full time for a few hundred a week, either you get kids or total shite ! Going with proper part time players is a must or we will be relegated again, whilst our youth lads are very promising only Jones and Crawford are ready physically. People keep saying there will be better away support but I can't see it most clubs are poorly supported barring a couple . There are a couple of serious flaws in budgeting for lower attendances. Firstly most of the clubs expenditure are fixed costs with no room for manoeuvre. Secondly gate receipts are our largest form of income.
So if apparently budgeting for 1700 will provide a playing budget of 250k then budgeting for less will provide a disproportionately smaller playing budget.
For example working on £8 per person after VAT, 1500= 21x8x200=33,600, 1300=21x8x400=67,200, 1000=21x8x700=117,600. Most of those figures will have to come off the playing budget to give a balanced budget.
Budgeting for failure will give failure. There are no easy answers to this problem. One possible solution is for fans to contribute 33,600 to squad builder so that any crowd figures over 1500 will be a bonus. Season tickets sales are key as well, as the more that are sold reduces the risk in any budget.
Of course there is flaws in budgeting for lower attendances. But what would you rather? Budget for less and have a club to support, or budget for more (again) and risk being in this situation again? I don't think the fans will save us again if the same people screw us once more. If we budget for 1,500 and average 1,700 then that is all well and good - the manager will have extra funds to spend in January or we can put it toward a revenue producing infrastructure project such as a 3G pitch.
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Post by Churton Blue on Apr 14, 2018 10:21:56 GMT
There are a couple of serious flaws in budgeting for lower attendances. Firstly most of the clubs expenditure are fixed costs with no room for manoeuvre. Secondly gate receipts are our largest form of income.
So if apparently budgeting for 1700 will provide a playing budget of 250k then budgeting for less will provide a disproportionately smaller playing budget.
For example working on £8 per person after VAT, 1500= 21x8x200=33,600, 1300=21x8x400=67,200, 1000=21x8x700=117,600. Most of those figures will have to come off the playing budget to give a balanced budget.
Budgeting for failure will give failure. There are no easy answers to this problem. One possible solution is for fans to contribute 33,600 to squad builder so that any crowd figures over 1500 will be a bonus. Season tickets sales are key as well, as the more that are sold reduces the risk in any budget.
I'm neither a mathematician or an accountant, but what happens if we budget for 1700 and then only average 1500 for the season. A lot of people are expecting another season of misery. If we plan for and expect misery that is what we will get. As my favourite poster AVFO says we will get the club we deserve.
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Post by paulie on Apr 14, 2018 10:27:01 GMT
I'm neither a mathematician or an accountant, but what happens if we budget for 1700 and then only average 1500 for the season. A lot of people are expecting another season of misery. If we plan for and expect misery that is what we will get. As my favourite poster AVFO says we will get the club we deserve. If we plan for the club we deserve and end up with what we expect, there will be no club.
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Post by Churton Blue on Apr 14, 2018 10:33:09 GMT
There are a couple of serious flaws in budgeting for lower attendances. Firstly most of the clubs expenditure are fixed costs with no room for manoeuvre. Secondly gate receipts are our largest form of income.
So if apparently budgeting for 1700 will provide a playing budget of 250k then budgeting for less will provide a disproportionately smaller playing budget.
For example working on £8 per person after VAT, 1500= 21x8x200=33,600, 1300=21x8x400=67,200, 1000=21x8x700=117,600. Most of those figures will have to come off the playing budget to give a balanced budget.
Budgeting for failure will give failure. There are no easy answers to this problem. One possible solution is for fans to contribute 33,600 to squad builder so that any crowd figures over 1500 will be a bonus. Season tickets sales are key as well, as the more that are sold reduces the risk in any budget.
Of course there is flaws in budgeting for lower attendances. But what would you rather? Budget for less and have a club to support, or budget for more (again) and risk being in this situation again? I don't think the fans will save us again if the same people screw us once more. If we budget for 1,500 and average 1,700 then that is all well and good - the manager will have extra funds to spend in January or we can put it toward a revenue producing infrastructure project such as a 3G pitch. Budgeting for 1500 may produce crowds of 1300 as the team and manager we can afford will be that much worse.
Would agree we should be investing in 3g pitches regardless.
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Post by Churton Blue on Apr 14, 2018 10:44:43 GMT
If we plan for and expect misery that is what we will get. As my favourite poster AVFO says we will get the club we deserve. If we plan for the club we deserve and end up with what we expect, there will be no club. I have no problem in theory of planning for crowds of 1000 with a playing budget of 140k and signing non contract players from the Northern Premier League.
Not sure that is a sustainable way forward and will probably end in bankruptcy as we will get more crowds of 700 when we relegated before the end of March.
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Post by paulie on Apr 14, 2018 10:59:04 GMT
If we plan for the club we deserve and end up with what we expect, there will be no club. I have no problem in theory of planning for crowds of 1000 with a playing budget of 140k and signing non contract players from the Northern Premier League.
Not sure that is a sustainable way forward and will probably end in bankruptcy as we will get more crowds of 700 when we relegated before the end of March.
I fully understand what you are saying, speculate to accumulate. I personally feel that budgeting for 1700 is a hell of a gamble. Hopefully a manager every one is happy with gets appointed and we get a few points on the board early on in the season may bring back some disgruntled fans.
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Post by rcb on Apr 14, 2018 11:14:44 GMT
If we had planned for a £350,000 budget last summer we would not have been able to afford the crap “over the hill” players we ended up with, and have an extra £100,000 contingency in the pot. Probably have been mid-table and attracting more support as a consequence, whilst always remaining financially sound. We took an unnecessary risk financially, and with two proven failures in Maguire and McCarthy holding all the purse strings and seemingly uncontrolled by the board, including LK, elected by the fans but not representing their interests. Recipe for disaster then, and an even more precarious situation exists now.
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Post by Jack on Apr 14, 2018 11:20:21 GMT
It's a tough one. If we budget for 1000, our budget will be so low that we will undoubtedly be bottom of the league with gates of 500.
We have to show some kind of ambition, I'd say something like 1400 is reasonably cautious. In reality, if we are competitive on the pitch I think we'll be closer to 1700/1800. Don't envy the board at all on making that decision, it's very hard to call.
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Post by Churton Blue on Apr 14, 2018 12:21:03 GMT
If we had planned for a £350,000 budget last summer we would not have been able to afford the crap “over the hill” players we ended up with, and have an extra £100,000 contingency in the pot. Probably have been mid-table and attracting more support as a consequence, whilst always remaining financially sound. We took an unnecessary risk financially, and with two proven failures in Maguire and McCarthy holding all the purse strings and seemingly uncontrolled by the board, including LK, elected by the fans but not representing their interests. Recipe for disaster then, and an even more precarious situation exists now. This time last year I would agree about sacking JM and sticking to a 350k playing budget with 100k to reserves or infrastructure. Still think we would have been relegated but would have put up a decent fight.
We do need total transparency about our current financial situation so that those elected at the next round of elections are not left with an impossible situation to deal with.
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Post by Matt on Apr 14, 2018 12:25:19 GMT
It's a tough one. If we budget for 1000, our budget will be so low that we will undoubtedly be bottom of the league with gates of 500. We have to show some kind of ambition, I'd say something like 1400 is reasonably cautious. In reality, if we are competitive on the pitch I think we'll be closer to 1700/1800. Don't envy the board at all on making that decision, it's very hard to call. It shows how much shit were in when we were budgeting 1,100 in our first year with an annual wage budget of 300k. So the calibre of players is going to be Evo or worse.
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Post by Deva Chanter on Apr 14, 2018 15:13:00 GMT
This figure of 1,700 suggested by Laurence Kirby is asking for trouble, that much is obvious from the tone of the debate on this thread. The board has to begin learning from its mistakes.
Our average attendance this season is 1,830. Take out the Wrexham and Tranmere games and that figure drops to 1,654. And yet we are budgeting for higher than that in a league below? The mind boggles.
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Post by Neil Fishers Biggest Fan on Apr 14, 2018 22:15:56 GMT
I don’t think anyone can budget for anything to be honest, we don’t know who is going to be the next manager, we don’t know what players are going to be here, we don’t even know who will be running the football club. If there are “new investors” they may want “personnel changes” All those factors will make a big difference to how many people are prepared to turn up next season. It won’t make any difference to me, but are there another 1,700 like me? I’m not sure.
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Post by sumo on Apr 14, 2018 22:25:57 GMT
We will have more away fans next season, than this season.
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Post by Al on Apr 15, 2018 9:30:22 GMT
I don’t think anyone can budget for anything to be honest, we don’t know who is going to be the next manager, we don’t know what players are going to be here, we don’t even know who will be running the football club. If there are “new investors” they may want “personnel changes” All those factors will make a big difference to how many people are prepared to turn up next season. It won’t make any difference to me, but are there another 1,700 like me? I’m not sure. So what's the answer then Chris? Just put everything on hold??
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Post by paulie on Apr 15, 2018 9:35:20 GMT
I don’t think anyone can budget for anything to be honest, we don’t know who is going to be the next manager, we don’t know what players are going to be here, we don’t even know who will be running the football club. If there are “new investors” they may want “personnel changes” All those factors will make a big difference to how many people are prepared to turn up next season. It won’t make any difference to me, but are there another 1,700 like me? I’m not sure. So what's the answer then Chris? Just put everything on hold?? Surely a new manager should have been ready in the wings once the decision not to renew Bignots contracts was made. Has the job been advertised yet? Any interviews taken place?
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Post by Al on Apr 15, 2018 9:46:18 GMT
So what's the answer then Chris? Just put everything on hold?? Surely a new manager should have been ready in the wings once the decision not to renew Bignots contracts was made. Has the job been advertised yet? Any interviews taken place? I'd have hoped there would be either a man identified already or at least the job advertised. Been a bit busy what with work, podcast, dee 106.3 football show maybe? Again though, I suppose it juat sums up that the board are running at reduced numbers and need help
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Post by eltonblues on Apr 15, 2018 9:52:17 GMT
This figure of 1,700 suggested by Laurence Kirby is asking for trouble, that much is obvious from the tone of the debate on this thread. The board has to begin learning from its mistakes. Our average attendance this season is 1,830. Take out the Wrexham and Tranmere games and that figure drops to 1,654. And yet we are budgeting for higher than that in a league below? The mind boggles. I agree that we seem to be setting up for more financial woes budgeting on 1700
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Post by paulie on Apr 15, 2018 9:55:59 GMT
Surely a new manager should have been ready in the wings once the decision not to renew Bignots contracts was made. Has the job been advertised yet? Any interviews taken place? I'd have hoped there would be either a man identified already or at least the job advertised. Been a bit busy what with work, podcast, dee 106.3 football show maybe? Again though, I suppose it juat sums up that the board are running at reduced numbers and need help I have the suspicion that Neil Young was meant to be the one taking over, however he said he wanted part time and the board wishing to stay full time put the end to it.
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Post by paulie on Apr 15, 2018 10:03:27 GMT
We will have more away fans next season, than this season. Who exactly? I can see Stockport (if they don't get promoted) and possibly FC United but other than that I can't see anyone else bringing more than a taxi load.
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Post by rcb on Apr 15, 2018 10:55:07 GMT
At least with the lack of funds we can’t afford a hired assassin, but then again as long as the well used self destruct button remains, the club is likely to kill itself. There are so many people doing so much to keep the club alive and yet there remains a core of arrogance, devoid of social conscience, thinking they know best. Hemorrhaging fans, faced with the return of two high earners, and already relegated, the club has one strategic advantage- it can take this “time advantage” to grab a lead in preparing for next season. Instead we hear mostly silence, nothing happens on the new manager front, and a ridiculous decision to remain full-time meaning cheap dregs, coupled with that the seemingly all knowing LK plans a ridiculous budget based on absent fans, and yet the recent financial catastrophe is allegedly not his fault. I recently said the next two months were key to the future. I was too generous. I think the next TWO WEEKS hold the future of the club. I’m desperate for a future, as probably two thousand others are too, don’t waste the next two weeks. Many might have turned their backs, but don’t make them walk away because of arrogance, self importance and dithering.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2018 11:18:14 GMT
Average attendances in the National League North this season. No offence but if Salford (on the back of a wave of publicity and being top of the league) don't average 1,700 then what makes you think you would?
1: Stockport County 3,157 2: York City 2,825 3: FC United 1,842 4: Salford City 1,640 5: Darlington 1,511 6: Kidderminster 1,506 7: Chorley: 1,115 8: AFC Telford 1,102 9: Harrogate Town 1,099 10: Boston United 1,022 11: Southport 956 12: Spennymoor 895 13: Blyth Spartans 880 14: Tamworth 779 15: Leamington 658 16: Nuneaton Town 638 17: Gainsborough 578 18: Alfreton Town 541 19: Bradford PA 524 20: Brackley Town 515 21: Curzon Ashton 418 22: North Ferriby 308
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Post by Matt on Apr 15, 2018 11:19:55 GMT
There are a couple of serious flaws in budgeting for lower attendances. Firstly most of the clubs expenditure are fixed costs with no room for manoeuvre. Secondly gate receipts are our largest form of income.
So if apparently budgeting for 1700 will provide a playing budget of 250k then budgeting for less will provide a disproportionately smaller playing budget.
For example working on £8 per person after VAT, 1500= 21x8x200=33,600, 1300=21x8x400=67,200, 1000=21x8x700=117,600. Most of those figures will have to come off the playing budget to give a balanced budget.
Budgeting for failure will give failure. There are no easy answers to this problem. One possible solution is for fans to contribute 33,600 to squad builder so that any crowd figures over 1500 will be a bonus. Season tickets sales are key as well, as the more that are sold reduces the risk in any budget.
I'm neither a mathematician or an accountant, but what happens if we budget for 1700 and then only average 1500 for the season. A lot of people are expecting another season of misery. Same situation as this season but 10x worse. We will then be playing in the Evo-Stik with just one side of the ground open to 400 spectators.
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Post by Matt on Apr 15, 2018 11:24:59 GMT
Average attendances in the National League North this season. No offence but if Salford (on the back of a wave of publicity and being top of the league) don't average 1,700 then what makes you think you would? 1: Stockport County 3,157 2: York City 2,825 3: FC United 1,842 4: Salford City 1,640 5: Darlington 1,511 6: Kidderminster 1,506 7: Chorley: 1,115 8: AFC Telford 1,102 9: Harrogate Town 1,099 10: Boston United 1,022 11: Southport 956 12: Spennymoor 895 13: Blyth Spartans 880 14: Tamworth 779 15: Leamington 658 16: Nuneaton Town 638 17: Gainsborough 578 18: Alfreton Town 541 19: Bradford PA 524 20: Brackley Town 515 21: Curzon Ashton 418 22: North Ferriby 308 They used to get 150 when we first reformed. They’ve had a sheer rise due to the class of 92 throwing money for amusement.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Apr 15, 2018 11:28:02 GMT
I'm neither a mathematician or an accountant, but what happens if we budget for 1700 and then only average 1500 for the season. A lot of people are expecting another season of misery. Same situation as this season but 10x worse. We will then be playing in the Evo-Stik with just one side of the ground open to 400 spectators. At least we will still be playing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2018 11:31:10 GMT
Absolutely. That's my point. They're a club on a rise, riding high in the league and an unusual amount of publicity, lots of 'plastic' (hate that phrase but I think you know what I mean) fans just along for the ride, and they can't reach 1,700. I'd think 1k - 1.3k is a more realistic average. Depending on how the start of the season goes.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2018 11:31:52 GMT
Sorry that response was to Matt - forgot to quote.
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Post by Oaks Blue on Apr 15, 2018 12:43:35 GMT
They've just advertised the managers job on Facebook again.
Deary me
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Post by icomeinpeace on Apr 15, 2018 15:03:52 GMT
They've just advertised the managers job on Facebook again. Deary me I’m pretty sure the club would not rely just on FB. It’s on the Chester FC website, and I would Imarine it has been circulated to the relevant press and I don’t know maybe the managers associataions? Most people anyway would know Chester are looking for a manager unless they have been on the moon for the past 6 weeks!!!
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Post by rcb on Apr 15, 2018 15:42:03 GMT
They've just advertised the managers job on Facebook again. Deary me I’m pretty sure the club would not rely just on FB. It’s on the Chester FC website, and I would Imarine it has been circulated to the relevant press and I don’t know maybe the managers associataions? Most people anyway would know Chester are looking for a manager unless they have been on the moon for the past 6 weeks!!!More men have walked on the moon than have managed Chester FC since reforming in 2010, and some of the board have thoughts and opinions that are out of this world.
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