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Post by midfieldgeneral on Jan 20, 2021 3:53:38 GMT
With the NL having 23 votes and the North and South divisions having 8 votes between the 44 clubs does that mean if the majority of NL clubs decide to carry on whatever then the other 44 have to as well even if they cannot afford to? or they cut the North and South clubs loose and carry on.
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Jan 20, 2021 8:56:50 GMT
As I said above, the way the National league operates, it wouldnt suprise me if they cut the North and South clubs adrift and allowed them to curtail the season, in order for their 'pet' National League, clubs to pocket any funding, that is available Some of their Chairman are so reckless, that loans probably wouldnt bother them. The season has been completely mis-sold to us. Would we have started the season, if we knew half way through grants were going to be replaced by loans Also, the National league carve up, of the lottery funding, which was meant to cover gate reciepts, was a disgrace worthly of forced resignations and legal action.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2021 8:58:59 GMT
The biggest problem I see is if we finish this season and somehow get the virus under control how many supporters could we expect next season. A very high proportion of our season ticket holders are retired me included, I don't know how others feel about it but I certainly would never feel it was safe enough to go to live games. How would the club survive on gates of 12 or 1300 I think this will be the end of a lot of lower league clubs.
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Post by Harry Lime on Jan 20, 2021 9:02:17 GMT
Personally I don't blame Dowden or the DCMS for all this.
Once the decision had been taken not to bale out Premier League clubs, which would have been unpopular to the general public, given they were still signing and paying players huge amounts. While many were losing their jobs.
They told PL to support the FL. All lower leagues were voided and players furloughed.
The NL was stuck in the middle. Wanting to be Elite, to keep promotion, but not really. This is what caused the problem. None of the FL funding but blind ambition.
Dowden found a way of getting grants from the Lottery to the NL. Usual lottery way is to allow groups/charities etc to allocate money out as they best see. As they know the needs better than the Lottery. This is what they did. The misallocation was by the NL.
After all the adverse publicity and grief he's probably received over that, why would he repeat? He probably thought he'd helped the clubs, only to receive the criticism and very little praise. He may also feel public sympathy isn't there.
We care because it's our club. Our views are coloured by this. Millions are struggling and worried about getting through the next month/year. If the season is voided or halted, we can then claim the furlough scheme like other businesses. We were almost forced to carry on, against our judgement, then let down by the NL itself, not central government in my view.
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Post by Si on Jan 20, 2021 9:36:41 GMT
Personally I don't blame Dowden or the DCMS for all this. Once the decision had been taken not to bale out Premier League clubs, which would have been unpopular to the general public, given they were still signing and paying players huge amounts. While many were losing their jobs. They told PL to support the FL. All lower leagues were voided and players furloughed. The NL was stuck in the middle. Wanting to be Elite, to keep promotion, but not really. This is what caused the problem. None of the FL funding but blind ambition. Dowden found a way of getting grants from the Lottery to the NL. Usual lottery way is to allow groups/charities etc to allocate money out as they best see. As they know the needs better than the Lottery. This is what they did. The misallocation was by the NL. After all the adverse publicity and grief he's probably received over that, why would he repeat? He probably thought he'd helped the clubs, only to receive the criticism and very little praise. He may also feel public sympathy isn't there. We care because it's our club. Our views are coloured by this. Millions are struggling and worried about getting through the next month/year. If the season is voided or halted, we can then claim the furlough scheme like other businesses. We were almost forced to carry on, against our judgement, then let down by the NL itself, not central government in my view. Yes but it would cost the government 14m to furlough everyone and 10m grant to continue, so its costing them an extra 4m to make this decision. At the same, if its null and void then what a massive waste of the 10m from the lottery.
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Post by Churton Blue on Jan 20, 2021 9:47:05 GMT
Personally I don't blame Dowden or the DCMS for all this. Once the decision had been taken not to bale out Premier League clubs, which would have been unpopular to the general public, given they were still signing and paying players huge amounts. While many were losing their jobs. They told PL to support the FL. All lower leagues were voided and players furloughed. The NL was stuck in the middle. Wanting to be Elite, to keep promotion, but not really. This is what caused the problem. None of the FL funding but blind ambition. Dowden found a way of getting grants from the Lottery to the NL. Usual lottery way is to allow groups/charities etc to allocate money out as they best see. As they know the needs better than the Lottery. This is what they did. The misallocation was by the NL. After all the adverse publicity and grief he's probably received over that, why would he repeat? He probably thought he'd helped the clubs, only to receive the criticism and very little praise. He may also feel public sympathy isn't there. We care because it's our club. Our views are coloured by this. Millions are struggling and worried about getting through the next month/year. If the season is voided or halted, we can then claim the furlough scheme like other businesses. We were almost forced to carry on, against our judgement, then let down by the NL itself, not central government in my view. Some excellent points but the responsibility for the current situation lies with a number of parties. In general during the pandemic the Government has been over optimistic and bullish. They have been very keen to take credit for the good things that they do whilst not being prepared to be held accountable when they get it wrong. The October bailout fits in to this analysis. The Government were very keen to take the credit, see their press release. It was entirely predictable that if the National League were allowed to allocate the money they would not do it on a fair and equitable basis. It was surprising that they acted in an apparently corrupt manner but the incompetence was par for the course. The DCMS had a duty of oversight for the process and they failed miserably. They let down clubs who got less than they should have done while some clubs must have felt like the won the lottery without buying a ticket. The FA were very much part of the whole affair. Their flagship competition was under threat so they were very keen to get the National League clubs playing football in October and now that Chorley are the only team left they could not care less about the National League. I fully expect the NLN and NLS seasons to be declared null and void in the next few days. I cannot see how clubs can be forced to take loans when the furlough scheme is a better option and there will be a sufficient number of clubs not willing to take a loan to make either league viable. I am less sure about the National League and I suspect a better deal may be offered to them to get them to play on because of the sacred promotion to the FL issue. There is a very small chance that the DCMS will bow to pressure and do a u-turn but they do look like they are sticking to their guns at the moment.
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Post by Neil Hunt Nonsense Potter on Jan 20, 2021 9:56:48 GMT
Its a horrible mess. What I would say is that our MP has played a blinder, obviously has a genuine interest and feeling for what our club is and what it does for its community. Add to that the sterling work that the board are doing, and how well communicated this has been by their Chair.
These are unprecedented stormy waters for the club to negotiate, and they are doing it with no little skill and a lot of dignity. Add to that our management and players, who offer no excuses and work as hard as they can knowing this season will more than likely be abandoned.
In his post match interview last night, Anthony Johnson seemed to channel the spirit of McNally with his obvious frustration at the draw, but his determination to carry on putting as much in as they can until told otherwise. Cheered me up after the annoying loss of 2 points.
At this moment in time there are more important things than what happens on the pitch. Seeing everyone pull together for Chester FC very much reminds me of 2010, and even our time in Macclesfield after the carpet baggers left us with nothing. Makes me proud to be a blue seal.
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Post by agl on Jan 20, 2021 10:22:26 GMT
Some excellent posts on this thread...overall I think Churton Blue pretty much nails it. Is there a scenario here where the NLN and NLS clubs actively split from the NL and run their own leagues? Promotion would obviously be the issue but it's obvious to me that some (maybe the majority) of NL clubs are determined to shaft NLN and NLS at every step. The voting rights of the board, weighted heavily in favour of NL, make this easy. And of course the government is also culpable for not acting when the initial grant allocation was done. Dowden is too cosy with the Borehamwood chairman for my liking. Unless we get a grant then mothballing the club is probably the only option right now...what's the point of limping along in an empty stadium? It probably needs four or five clubs from each league to take this step to make the NLN and NLS unviable. I worry that a few clubs such as Gloucester and York won't support voiding the season but I really believe the vast majority will be on our wavelength. NL is another matter.
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Post by Neil Hunt Nonsense Potter on Jan 20, 2021 10:34:47 GMT
Some excellent posts on this thread...overall I think Churton Blue pretty much nails it. Is there a scenario here where the NLN and NLS clubs actively split from the NL and run their own leagues? Promotion would obviously be the issue but it's obvious to me that some (maybe the majority) of NL clubs are determined to shaft NLN and NLS at every step. The voting rights of the board, weighted heavily in favour of NL, make this easy. And of course the government is also culpable for not acting when the initial grant allocation was done. Dowden is too cosy with the Borehamwood chairman for my liking. Unless we get a grant then mothballing the club is probably the only option right now...what's the point of limping along in an empty stadium? It probably needs four or five clubs from each league to take this step to make the NLN and NLS unviable. I worry that a few clubs such as Gloucester and York won't support voiding the season but I really believe the vast majority will be on our wavelength. NL is another matter. Me too, but if necessary would dig deep again to make sure that my football club could continue to operate.
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Post by agl on Jan 20, 2021 11:09:29 GMT
Some excellent posts on this thread...overall I think Churton Blue pretty much nails it. Is there a scenario here where the NLN and NLS clubs actively split from the NL and run their own leagues? Promotion would obviously be the issue but it's obvious to me that some (maybe the majority) of NL clubs are determined to shaft NLN and NLS at every step. The voting rights of the board, weighted heavily in favour of NL, make this easy. And of course the government is also culpable for not acting when the initial grant allocation was done. Dowden is too cosy with the Borehamwood chairman for my liking. Unless we get a grant then mothballing the club is probably the only option right now...what's the point of limping along in an empty stadium? It probably needs four or five clubs from each league to take this step to make the NLN and NLS unviable. I worry that a few clubs such as Gloucester and York won't support voiding the season but I really believe the vast majority will be on our wavelength. NL is another matter. Me too, but if necessary would dig deep again to make sure that my football club could continue to operate. When you say operate, do you mean continue playing this season, or void the season and fundraise for the future? Personally, I don't feel comfortable having to fundraise again if we end up having a gun held to our head and being forced by the NL to carry on playing (eg with the threat of demotion if we don't).
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Post by oldsealandroadender on Jan 20, 2021 12:27:07 GMT
Me too, but if necessary would dig deep again to make sure that my football club could continue to operate. When you say operate, do you mean continue playing this season, or void the season and fundraise for the future? Personally, I don't feel comfortable having to fundraise again if we end up having a gun held to our head and being forced by the NL to carry on playing (eg with the threat of demotion if we don't). How would the NL have the cheek to demote any club who decided to mothball to protect themselves for the future after the way they have conducted themselves?
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Post by Harry Lime on Jan 20, 2021 12:42:24 GMT
When you say operate, do you mean continue playing this season, or void the season and fundraise for the future? Personally, I don't feel comfortable having to fundraise again if we end up having a gun held to our head and being forced by the NL to carry on playing (eg with the threat of demotion if we don't). How would the NL have the cheek to demote any club who decided to mothball to protect themselves for the future after the way they have conducted themselves? They would follow the league rules that were in place at the start of the season. Culpable guilt wouldn't come into it. If a majority of clubs, or even a sizable minority, vote to cease the season, we should just restart again next season with the same clubs. Problem starts when only 1 or 2 clubs mothball themselves.
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Post by waggoner on Jan 20, 2021 14:15:44 GMT
How would the NL have the cheek to demote any club who decided to mothball to protect themselves for the future after the way they have conducted themselves? They would follow the league rules that were in place at the start of the season. Culpable guilt wouldn't come into it. If a majority of clubs, or even a sizable minority, vote to cease the season, we should just restart again next season with the same clubs. Problem starts when only 1 or 2 clubs mothball themselves. Imagine what will happen if only a couple of clubs mothball, the league 'expel' them THEN a few more go bust during the season because no crowds are allowed back until next season? This is a real possibility if clubs take these loans without the ability to repay them. The court cases would be very interesting for sure. Clubs with no income who are trying to protect themselves going into hibernation and getting punished for it because the promises, made before the season started have been withdraw, because they cannot afford to be forced into taking on on £100k in debt. Then clubs that do take the loans going bust because they cannot really afford to. Then the sugar daddy clubs who have their own interests at heart who will want to carry on with no interest in what the impact would be on other clubs who do things the right way (Chesterfield for instance)
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Post by yossergolf on Jan 20, 2021 14:28:23 GMT
The important thing has to be the long term survival of Chester FC. If the league does carry on this season and clubs have to take out loans then we have to do what is right by Chester FC. If that means we drop down the leagues again then reluctantly that would be preferential to £100k+ of debt that limits future funding. This is not an enviable position but one that I trust the board to do the right thing.
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Post by waggoner on Jan 20, 2021 14:35:08 GMT
How would the NL have the cheek to demote any club who decided to mothball to protect themselves for the future after the way they have conducted themselves? They would follow the league rules that were in place at the start of the season. Culpable guilt wouldn't come into it. If a majority of clubs, or even a sizable minority, vote to cease the season, we should just restart again next season with the same clubs. Problem starts when only 1 or 2 clubs mothball themselves. We all know what will happen. The NL have this meeting, getting the information for a vote then do nothing for a month 'thinking' about it, meaning clubs will accrue another £30k of debt paying players and bills THEN they will stop the season
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Post by catfordbags on Jan 20, 2021 15:50:47 GMT
Personally I don't blame Dowden or the DCMS for all this. Once the decision had been taken not to bale out Premier League clubs, which would have been unpopular to the general public, given they were still signing and paying players huge amounts. While many were losing their jobs. They told PL to support the FL. All lower leagues were voided and players furloughed. The NL was stuck in the middle. Wanting to be Elite, to keep promotion, but not really. This is what caused the problem. None of the FL funding but blind ambition. Dowden found a way of getting grants from the Lottery to the NL. Usual lottery way is to allow groups/charities etc to allocate money out as they best see. As they know the needs better than the Lottery. This is what they did. The misallocation was by the NL. After all the adverse publicity and grief he's probably received over that, why would he repeat? He probably thought he'd helped the clubs, only to receive the criticism and very little praise. He may also feel public sympathy isn't there. We care because it's our club. Our views are coloured by this. Millions are struggling and worried about getting through the next month/year. If the season is voided or halted, we can then claim the furlough scheme like other businesses. We were almost forced to carry on, against our judgement, then let down by the NL itself, not central government in my view. Yes but it would cost the government 14m to furlough everyone and 10m grant to continue, so its costing them an extra 4m to make this decision. At the same, if its null and void then what a massive waste of the 10m from the lottery. The distinction is that it will cost the treasury 14m rather than DCMS 10m - different pots and most importantly not DCMS's pot. Part of me understands why the Govt aren't keen on grants. Our players aren't earning a massive wedge but there'll be plenty of players across the National League on substantially more than the median wage.
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Post by avfo on Jan 20, 2021 16:51:39 GMT
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Post by devadiva on Jan 20, 2021 17:11:07 GMT
#2 looks promising - here’s hoping...
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Post by superman on Jan 20, 2021 17:14:56 GMT
No mention of null and voiding the season, just suspension. Option 2 if it could be done on genuine need may offer a way out.
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Post by agl on Jan 20, 2021 17:15:17 GMT
Option B would appear to be the lesser of three evils, although it would of course open a new can of worms over how it is shared out. Also, this money is only supposed to bail clubs out until March. What happens then...I don't see fans returning until next season? Suspending the season comes with its own costs, as the chairman points out. There would be the issue of season ticket refunds and paying back sponsor money.
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Post by Wortleyblue on Jan 20, 2021 17:17:00 GMT
#2 looks promising - here’s hoping... As long as its fairly distributed and not just lining the pockets of the likes of Boring Wood
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Post by superman on Jan 20, 2021 17:28:55 GMT
The easy question to ask each of the 67 clubs is if we give each of you an equal share of the £11million I.e. £164k, could you completed the season. If all say yes then carry on, otherwise suspend or cancel season. The repayment of loan by NL will likely have more impact on the top league as they get bulk of hand outs. This would redress some of the imbalance already put in place by previous allocations.
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Post by Blockhead on Jan 20, 2021 18:01:03 GMT
Option B would appear to be the lesser of three evils, although it would of course open a new can of worms over how it is shared out. Also, this money is only supposed to bail clubs out until March. What happens then...I don't see fans returning until next season? Suspending the season comes with its own costs, as the chairman points out. There would be the issue of season ticket refunds and paying back sponsor money. Option B is almost the same as option A. Instead of owing the funds to the Government it would be owed to the NL (repaid in the form of reduced central funding). Still leaves overall finances short by the same amount
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Post by agl on Jan 20, 2021 18:08:26 GMT
Option B would appear to be the lesser of three evils, although it would of course open a new can of worms over how it is shared out. Also, this money is only supposed to bail clubs out until March. What happens then...I don't see fans returning until next season? Suspending the season comes with its own costs, as the chairman points out. There would be the issue of season ticket refunds and paying back sponsor money. Option B is almost the same as option A. Instead of owing the funds to the Government it would be owed to the NL (repaid in the form of reduced central funding). Still leaves overall finances short by the same amount I assume they all come with a catch. If we end up paying the money back re reduced central funding then it's hardly proper to dress it up as a grant. More detail needed
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Post by Blockhead on Jan 20, 2021 18:12:40 GMT
Option B is almost the same as option A. Instead of owing the funds to the Government it would be owed to the NL (repaid in the form of reduced central funding). Still leaves overall finances short by the same amount I assume they all come with a catch. If we end up paying the money back re reduced central funding then it's hardly proper to dress it up as a grant. More detail needed It is to be paid back from reduced central funding. See tweet from Ollie Bayliss:
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Post by avfo on Jan 20, 2021 18:14:47 GMT
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Post by agl on Jan 20, 2021 18:21:24 GMT
I assume they all come with a catch. If we end up paying the money back re reduced central funding then it's hardly proper to dress it up as a grant. More detail needed It is to be paid back from reduced central funding. See tweet from Ollie Bayliss: In that case I don't see any alternative to suspending the season...someone at the club will no doubt do the Maths but by taking this so called grant we would only be storing up trouble for further down the line. Can we even be sure fans will be back next season, or what might happen in the winter? It's all looking pretty bleak. Maybe we should be looking at Summer football...mothball the club now and approach local rivals to take part in a mini league to be played in Summer.
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Post by avfo on Jan 20, 2021 19:29:20 GMT
Statement from CFC board -
The Board of Chester FC wishes to provide an important update for our members and supporters regarding the 2020/21 National League North season.
During divisional meetings on Wednesday, it was confirmed to clubs the £11m package of financial support for January to March will be in the form of loans not grants.
While discussions continue with the Department for Digital, Culture, Media & Sport (DCMS), the National League has asked clubs for their views on three options under consideration.
Clubs to apply for loans from Sport England. Applications assessed on an individual basis against strict criteria with loans repayable at 2% interest over 10 years with no interest or repayments for the first two years. National League to operate a loan from Sport England to be distributed to clubs as grants. This would impact on future central distributions as the National League will be responsible for repayment. Grant applications would be assessed based on need and the National League has committed to have an open and transparent distribution model. Suspend the season. An immediate break in the season to allow clubs to access the furlough scheme with a decision on how to resume taken at a later date. There will be no loans or grants available to clubs, however those experiencing financial hardship can submit independent applications to Sport England for support. As a club we have been clear and consistent in our view that playing behind closed doors was not viable without grants. This was the basis upon which we decided to commence the season in October and remains our position.
We can confirm we have responded to the National League advising we are prepared to consider continuing the season on the basis outlined in option two, but this is subject to the league providing satisfactory answers to a number of questions, including how the grants will be distributed, the impact on future central payments and how these will be calculated for each club.
We would also want to understand what support will be available for clubs to implement COVID-19 testing to bring the health and safety of our league in line with the EFL and Premier League as this remains paramount, and how this will be funded.
Like you, we are supporters of our club as well as custodians and our desire and hope is that we can continue playing, however this cannot be at any cost.
The failure to honour the assurances given to clubs when agreeing to start the season without fans and the unfair allocation of grants covering October to December, as well as the decision not to publish the findings and recommendations of the independent review panel, has placed many clubs in an unacceptable predicament.
We again appeal to the DCMS, The FA and the National League to work together to protect these precious football clubs and the essential role they play in their communities.
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Post by exiled on Jan 20, 2021 19:50:23 GMT
Statement from CFC board - The Board of Chester FC wishes to provide an important update for our members and supporters regarding the 2020/21 National League North season. During divisional meetings on Wednesday, it was confirmed to clubs the £11m package of financial support for January to March will be in the form of loans not grants. While discussions continue with the Department for Digital, Culture, Media & Sport (DCMS), the National League has asked clubs for their views on three options under consideration. Clubs to apply for loans from Sport England. Applications assessed on an individual basis against strict criteria with loans repayable at 2% interest over 10 years with no interest or repayments for the first two years. National League to operate a loan from Sport England to be distributed to clubs as grants. This would impact on future central distributions as the National League will be responsible for repayment. Grant applications would be assessed based on need and the National League has committed to have an open and transparent distribution model. Suspend the season. An immediate break in the season to allow clubs to access the furlough scheme with a decision on how to resume taken at a later date. There will be no loans or grants available to clubs, however those experiencing financial hardship can submit independent applications to Sport England for support. As a club we have been clear and consistent in our view that playing behind closed doors was not viable without grants. This was the basis upon which we decided to commence the season in October and remains our position. We can confirm we have responded to the National League advising we are prepared to consider continuing the season on the basis outlined in option two, but this is subject to the league providing satisfactory answers to a number of questions, including how the grants will be distributed, the impact on future central payments and how these will be calculated for each club.
We would also want to understand what support will be available for clubs to implement COVID-19 testing to bring the health and safety of our league in line with the EFL and Premier League as this remains paramount, and how this will be funded.Like you, we are supporters of our club as well as custodians and our desire and hope is that we can continue playing, however this cannot be at any cost.
The failure to honour the assurances given to clubs when agreeing to start the season without fans and the unfair allocation of grants covering October to December, as well as the decision not to publish the findings and recommendations of the independent review panel, has placed many clubs in an unacceptable predicament.
We again appeal to the DCMS, The FA and the National League to work together to protect these precious football clubs and the essential role they play in their communities.Loads of questions need answering befor clubs agree to any of these options. Our boards right to be cautious. Once bitten twice shy springs to mind.
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Post by chesterken on Jan 20, 2021 20:11:06 GMT
The Board have been excellent in everything they have done so far so I am very confident they will chose the option that is best for us and the club after that has been decided it’s then up to us to step up and add our support to the club, I know it’s a hard time at the moment but there are things we could do without paying anymore than we are now. Quite a few of us like to pay for a live stream and give money to another club but we could agree to Listen to blues live instead and put the streaming monies into our club instead, also perhaps a half season ticket to watch the home streams for the rest of the season at least the club will know that a set amount of money will be coming in every week. I fully understand that lot of people are in great hardship at the moment so this is aimed at supporters like myself who have not been affected financially, this is just an idea of the top of my head I’m sure some of you will come up with better ideas.
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